England v Greece

[pib]

Not the end of the world but it goes back yet again to the England failing - stop trying to make the system fit around our best or perceived best players. Find a system and get the players to fit in, even if they don’t play for the top clubs or have the biggest social media followings.

System first, players second.

Exactly that.

The whole narrative around England at the moment is "how do we get Palmer, Saka, Bellingham, Gordon, and Foden into the same XI?"... to which the answer is "you don't try to!"

Last night he tried to do exactly that, played with no striker, and look at the outcome. 64% possession, 88% pass accuracy, but 2 shots on goal.

Greece could've had a hatful, it was clear the setup was all wrong.

[silent majority]

In a strange way I’m glad we lost, hopefully the FA won’t be so quick to appoint him as a permanent replacement.

Yes he’s got the U21 European title under his belt but the rest of his career is pretty sparse.

[TheFunk]

Hopefully he talked himself out of the job in his post match interview when he said the gameplan came from something they tried for 20 minutes in training.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

Folk keep using the shots on target stat as if it's an absolute marker on the performance.

We all know, our shooting accuracy was appalling for international level. We had guilt edged chances to score and made messes of each one. Responsibility has to go to the individual players on that front.

Defensively, it was a comedy of individual mind farts that caused us to get jittery and concede. Individual players have to hold their hands up.

There was also some poor decision making, wasting some good opportunities. This is not new, some of our players just don't have sufficient intelligence to be consistent and would rather play percentage balls relying on hope rather than finding a teammate.

I'm not sure why folk are lambasting Carsley. OK we can debate his selections  and/or the shape of the team but, he can't account for some of the basic errors made last night. It's 50/50 Responsibility for me but not enough to be so ante Carsley. Any manager needs time to get their message across. Maybe the lazy English mentality refuses to match Greece' and other teams intensity making it extremely difficult for any manager to stick to a game plan?

[Campsall rover]

Not the end of the world but it goes back yet again to the England failing - stop trying to make the system fit around our best or perceived best players. Find a system and get the players to fit in, even if they don’t play for the top clubs or have the biggest social media followings.

System first, players second.

100% correct. That’s what Alf Ramsey did.

[NickDRFC]

Not the end of the world but it goes back yet again to the England failing - stop trying to make the system fit around our best or perceived best players. Find a system and get the players to fit in, even if they don’t play for the top clubs or have the biggest social media followings.

System first, players second.

Agree with this but not sure I get your "social media following" point. If that mattered Marcus Rashford would be playing and there would probably still be a spot for David Beckham!

[DonnyBazR0ver]

Not the end of the world but it goes back yet again to the England failing - stop trying to make the system fit around our best or perceived best players. Find a system and get the players to fit in, even if they don’t play for the top clubs or have the biggest social media followings.

System first, players second.

100% correct. That’s what Alf Ramsey did.

Also agree. I think Carsleys got to give the players chance to show whether they are about 'the team' or themselves then be brave enough to leave them out if they don't comply.

Personally, I think Bellingham can be more disruptive than constructive. Trouble is, the media and social media are quick to hang anyone before a fair trial.

[MachoMadness]

I've said I think it's his job to lose before, and with last night's performance he may have lost it.

Yes it's essentially a friendly and the ideal time to experiment, but it was fairly obvious that playing 4 natural number 10s who all like to operate in the same areas of the pitch wasn't going to work. I'll reserve judgment until I see the response in the Finland game, but last night was a big blow to Carsley's chances imo.

[sf9944]

The narrative was always that England were underachieving with Southgate but I actually think they overachieved.

 Basically I don’t think that our players are as good as we think they are. You often hear ‘England should be winning tournaments with this team’. I don’t agree, I don’t think we are good enough. And yet we nearly did!

[DRFC_AjA]

Dreadful performance and non-existing defending.
Football should be simple. Play defenders who can defend and a damn striker

But everyone wants to play Pep-ball. Sideways sideways backwards sideways. Dont any player dare shoot or take someone on or else. It's bad enough is creeping down to league 2. As well as the keeper playing about with it at the back

We had many shooting or crossing opportunities tonight and just stopped and about turned. Fodens a shadow of what he was before or when he's let loose

Do you think 'pep-ball' is playing sideways and backwards?????

Those that try, and fail, to copy him yes

[DRFC_AjA]

To everyone saying we need a big name manager. What did the current Spain and Argentina managers win at managerial level before they won the Euros and World Cup? I'll give you a hint.....nothing

What did Sven and Capello win before becoming national managers?....lots

Why on earth this emphasis that someone's not big enough, not won enough, not expensive enough

[silent majority]

To everyone saying we need a big name manager. What did the current Spain and Argentina managers win at managerial level before they won the Euros and World Cup? I'll give you a hint.....nothing

What did Sven and Capello win before becoming national managers?....lots

Why on earth this emphasis that someone's not big enough, not won enough, not expensive enough

Well de la Fuente won the U19 Euros in 2015 and then the U21 title in 2019 and managed the Spanish Olympic team in Tokyo to a runners up position, and his managerial career extends back to 1997 following a decent professional playing career.

Not sure what it is you're suggesting though, should we just pick somebody we've never heard of and has never won anything? What criteria do you use?

Although Sven never won anything with England he should have done, bad luck and off the field issues effected that period of English football.

[Goole Rover]

Best England manager since Alf and the majority wanted rid. For those who have never managed professionally I can tell you it’s very difficult. As the old saying goes “you don’t know what you’ve got till it’s gone”

[Petche]

The narrative was always that England were underachieving with Southgate but I actually think they overachieved.

 Basically I don’t think that our players are as good as we think they are. You often hear ‘England should be winning tournaments with this team’. I don’t agree, I don’t think we are good enough. And yet we nearly did!

Exactly this...

[Goole Rover]

The narrative was always that England were underachieving with Southgate but I actually think they overachieved.

 Basically I don’t think that our players are as good as we think they are. You often hear ‘England should be winning tournaments with this team’. I don’t agree, I don’t think we are good enough. And yet we nearly did!

A very accurate assessment.

[Padge_DRFC]

What's people's obsession with saying not good enough at International level? International level is nowhere near the level of the champions league and probably majority of premier league matches.

[Chris Black come back]

International football is literally a different game to club football. The manager has access to players for hardly any time at all throughout the season, and has to deal with players who all play week in and week out in a range of totally different systems, often in totally different national leagues. The best an international manger can do is get them to fit into a system and try and stick to this. The less complicated probably the better. It is real lowest common denominator stuff.

This is why having players raised in a structure and system from national u16s upwards is the goal. Then they just turn up with their kit for the international weekend and slot into what they have been doing for the last 10 years. You have no hope of trying to get even the best group of lads to chop and change formation and structure if you have them for a couple of days training every few months.

Also the measure of success is international tournaments and the only metric there is getting through to the next round, whether 10-0 or with the final penalty kick in a 15-14 shoot out.

[selby]

  TAA is England's equivalent of Ben Close to us, positionally and when not on the ball a  nightmare,
  There are better at other teams who cover more ground and are more tactically aware, Smith Rowe for instance now in the doldrums because he plays at Fulham.
  There are better defenders and better players who don't play for the top six clubs  and suffer being ignored because of where they play.
  Funnily enough our best right winger is also our best left back.