Have just noticed

[Dutch Uncle]

That 6 of the current top 7 in League 1 are teams that have come up from the Conference/National League at some stage.

The strength of the Conference really makes it effectively FL3

[BillyStubbsTears]

Agreed Dutch. It's not acceptable that there's such a choke on movement in the two directions

[mugnapper]

Should be 4 up, 4 down. And maybe a play off for a 5th?
Edit. 5th from bottom of 4th division  playing 5th in the Conference?
That'd kill a lot of those tedious 'end of season' games.

[Peebles Rover]

Also, 3 of the four teams that promoted from league 2 last year are in the top 5 of league one

[Usher wide.]

Wouldn’t want to ever fall into that level of football again.

Far easier to escape out of a lobster pot.

[TonySoprano]

Let's be honest, those teams will each have 2 or 3 players at most that played for them in the conference

[Dutch Uncle]

Let's be honest, those teams will each have 2 or 3 players at most that played for them in the conference

I am fairly sure Wycombe don't have any 

My point is that over 30 years a majority of Conference/National League sides have consolidated themselves and flourished in the FL. Of course many, like ourselves, were former FL clubs relegated and promoted back, but for example Wycombe, Burton, Stevenage, AFC Wimbledon and Crawley would seem to have established themselves over an extended period in the FL. On the other hand many former FL sides have never made it back e.g. Darlington, Hereford, Halifax, Chester and Torquay 

[TonySoprano]

To be honest, I don't think it's a reflection of the strength of the conference.
I think it's more on the strength and ambition of those clubs to bounce back.
Likewise, on the weakness of the ones who can't.

There isn't some mythical gulf between lg2 and non league just because it's called non league, it's just the next step down the pyramid.

[Dutch Uncle]

I certainly agree with your last three sentences. But strength and weakness are measured in comparison with those around them, which suggests a relatively strong Conference - not stronger than FL2 in total, but top of Conference probably stronger than bottom of FL2.

IMHO just the same as can be said about the difference between FL1 and FL2. Not sure about Championship and FL1, and certainly bottom end of PL looks stronger than top end of Championship recently.

[idler]

Darlington did make it back the first time though Dutch when the conference wasn’t as strong.

[Chris Black come back]

Of the 24 sides in the current League Two, I think 18 have been non league sides.

Only Port Vale, Walsall, Bradford City, Gillingham, Crewe Alexandra and Swindon Town have not been non league.

MK 'Dons' stole their club from someone else, so I haven't counted them either way.

[Dutch Uncle]

On the other hand there are 14 sides in the National League who have been in the FL - Aldershot, Barnet, Boston, Dagenham & Redbridge, Forest Green Rovers, Halifax, Hartlepools, Oldham, Rochdale, Southend, Sutton, Yeovil and York, and then also Gateshead who lost their place in 1960 pre Conference.

Other league teams who have lost their place since promotion from Conference replaced re-election in 1987, and are now lower than tier 5 are: Chester, Darlington, Hereford, Kidderminster, Maidstone, Scarborough, Scunthorpe and Torquay in tier 6, and Bury, Macclesfield, Rushden & D who are even lower.

Also I am (sadly) old enough to remember Bradford PA, Southport and Workington playing at Belle Vue as established league sides and they are now all lower than Tier 5.

It is tough to get back and I agree that there should be 3 or 4 teams promoted/relegated beteen FL2 and Conference

[BobG]

Martín Harris, ex Rossington and Danum Grammar and a class mate of mine, played as a winger for Grimsby Town and then Workington. I think he scored at BV too.


BobG

[scawsby steve]

On the other hand there are 13 sides in the National League who have been in the FL - Aldershot, Barnet, Boston, Dagenham & Redbridge, Forest Green Rovers, Halifax, Hartlepools, Oldham, Rochdale, Sutton, Yeovil and York, and then also Gateshead who lost their place in 1960 pre Conference.

Other league teams who have lost their place since promotion from Conference replaced re-election in 1987, and are now lower than tier 5 are: Chester, Darlington, Hereford, Kidderminster, Maidstone, Scarborough and Torquay in tier 6, and Bury, Macclesfield, Rushden & D who are even lower.

Also I am (sadly) old enough to remember Bradford PA, Southport and Workington playing at Belle Vue as established league sides and they are now all lower than Tier 5.

It is tough to get back and I agree that there should be 3 or 4 teams promoted/relegated beteen FL2 and Conference

Sorry to be pedantic, DU, but you missed out Southend in that first paragraph, so surely it must be 14?

[IDM]

And Scunthorpe in tier 6.??

[ncRover]

I think the narrowest gap in quality is between League One and League Two DU and that highlights it, along with teams that have gone in the other direction.

7 out of the 8 teams that were relegated from League One in 21/22 and 22/23 are still in League Two. The other 1 out of those 8 is now in non-league (Forest Green). 2 of the 7 (Accrington and Morecambe) are currently 22nd and 24th this season.

Out of the 4 relegated from League One last year (23/24 season), you currently have Carlisle in 24th (despite substantial financial backing) and Cheltenham in 21st.

[Dutch Uncle]

On the other hand there are 13 sides in the National League who have been in the FL - Aldershot, Barnet, Boston, Dagenham & Redbridge, Forest Green Rovers, Halifax, Hartlepools, Oldham, Rochdale, Sutton, Yeovil and York, and then also Gateshead who lost their place in 1960 pre Conference.

Other league teams who have lost their place since promotion from Conference replaced re-election in 1987, and are now lower than tier 5 are: Chester, Darlington, Hereford, Kidderminster, Maidstone, Scarborough and Torquay in tier 6, and Bury, Macclesfield, Rushden & D who are even lower.

Also I am (sadly) old enough to remember Bradford PA, Southport and Workington playing at Belle Vue as established league sides and they are now all lower than Tier 5.

It is tough to get back and I agree that there should be 3 or 4 teams promoted/relegated beteen FL2 and Conference

Sorry to be pedantic, DU, but you missed out Southend in that first paragraph, so surely it must be 14?

Thanks SS, now corrected 

[Dutch Uncle]

And Scunthorpe in tier 6.??

Thanks IDM, now corrected 

[Dutch Uncle]

I think the narrowest gap in quality is between League One and League Two DU and that highlights it, along with teams that have gone in the other direction.

7 out of the 8 teams that were relegated from League One in 21/22 and 22/23 are still in League Two. The other 1 out of those 8 is now in non-league (Forest Green). 2 of the 7 (Accrington and Morecambe) are currently 22nd and 24th this season.

Out of the 4 relegated from League One last year (23/24 season), you currently have Carlisle in 24th (despite substantial financial backing) and Cheltenham in 21st.

I think that sounds reasonable, but I would add I think the last few years there has been a big gap between top and bottom of League 1, but less now with Ipswich, Derby, Sheffield Wednesday promoted

[TonySoprano]

I certainly agree with your last three sentences. But strength and weakness are measured in comparison with those around them, which suggests a relatively strong Conference - not stronger than FL2 in total, but top of Conference probably stronger than bottom of FL2.

IMHO just the same as can be said about the difference between FL1 and FL2. Not sure about Championship and FL1, and certainly bottom end of PL looks stronger than top end of Championship recently.

I understand what your saying, but the same thing can be said for any league.
Does Brentford and Bournemouth being in the top tier mean that league 1 is very strong ? I dont think so, it just shows how well those clubs have done individually. IMO