Abysmal, again.

[keith79]

When do we think it’s going to ‘click’?

preseason away to armthorpe rovers

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

It's not converting chances that's the problem. We are simply not creating enough good ones.

Once again, we've run into a brick wall against a low block. Time and again it's happening. We are WAY too ponderous with the ball, and in the first half in particular there was very little movement from the midfield and attack when we had the ball at the back. There was frequently a 30-40 yard hole between their front 2 and midfield crying out for someone to drop in and take the ball on the half turn but we did it no more than a couple of times.

It's still not crisis time, but it's coming very quickly if we don't solve this problem. 14 points from the last 11 games is starting to tell a serious story. In particular the form against promotion rivals - 2 points in the last 5 matches.

If we assume we need 80 points for 3rd place, we now need to pick up 40 from the last 21 matches. P21 W12 D4 L5. We are WAY off looking like being able to do that given performances over the last 10 weeks.

All correct. We need to have 20+ shots per game with the current average quality of chances we create.

Yet where would the expected points have us?

We're fine against teams we can get in behind, but absolutely against a low block not ruthless enough.

McCann gambled on the subs again today. Exactly what he did against Barrow last year, it didn't pay off today.

But, we had good chances.  Watching it back their keeper makes a great save, ours missed perhaps two he should save, that's the difference.....

[Jersey Rover]

Absolutely no central midfield. Nobody picking up the ball through the thirds committing their midfield. Passed along the back line left then right then hoofed diagonal from defence. Easy day for any opposition. Badly need 2 central defenders with attacking intentions otherwise this inconsistency or 2 nd gear won’t change.

[Fal]

Clifton is a passenger in every game I've watched him play

Nonsense, first half he was getting stuck in and putting his foot in where it’s needed, was surprised he was taken off and that’s the sort of thing we are missing in midfield.

As for the OP, and a few of the normal negative idiots (on here and X) all I can do is laugh as the nonsense that is posted. The Club, the manager and the players can’t win, as you moan when we don’t play well but win and then moan again when we play well and lose. We aren’t gonna play amazing every game, this league is a tough nut to crack and there’s going to be many twists and turns. Port Vale were shit today and did not deserve to win but alas they took 2 out of the 3 chances they had and ran away (via a lot of time wasting and tactical breaks/injuries) with 3 points.

Not concerned at all

Fal, genuinely, how did you see the game today? What did you take away from it? Just interested, not looking for arguments, it's all opinions.

I agree with Clifton, he had a knack of getting on second balls in the first half. I think we're missing a Whiteman type midfielder in the middle. Gibson and Moly are just too wasteful at the moment, I've no idea why. I also don't agree with Sharp up top on his own against two massive centre halves. The new lad looked lively, I'm intrigued by him.

McCann is a good manager, hopefully this is a blip. But I'm still concerned about how many we conceded Vs how many shots we give away.

Thought we played well and did not deserve to lose, Olowu took a gamble and the guy turned him, a mistake and as grant said the players didn’t pick up the runners into the box.

Think the subs at 58 mins stunted our momentum which ultimately led to their second goal, Fleming was out of position but at the same time it’s took an unfortunate deflection and gone in.

On another day we win that game, my only concern with the team is the midfield is just too inconsistent and not moving into space leading to us passing round the back.

I said at the game today every team we play finds space no problem but we struggle, it’s frustrating but it is what it is as I think we are just one Craig type of player away from it clicking in midfield like it did last season.

[dickos1]

It's not converting chances that's the problem. We are simply not creating enough good ones.

Once again, we've run into a brick wall against a low block. Time and again it's happening. We are WAY too ponderous with the ball, and in the first half in particular there was very little movement from the midfield and attack when we had the ball at the back. There was frequently a 30-40 yard hole between their front 2 and midfield crying out for someone to drop in and take the ball on the half turn but we did it no more than a couple of times.

It's still not crisis time, but it's coming very quickly if we don't solve this problem. 14 points from the last 11 games is starting to tell a serious story. In particular the form against promotion rivals - 2 points in the last 5 matches.

If we assume we need 80 points for 3rd place, we now need to pick up 40 from the last 21 matches. P21 W12 D4 L5. We are WAY off looking like being able to do that given performances over the last 10 weeks.

All correct. We need to have 20+ shots per game with the current average quality of chances we create.

Fact of today is we created better chances than the opposition but lost the game

[DRFCTom]

People have very very short memories from the pst 4/5 years, we’re one good playmaking midfielder away from being back again IMO.
Yes I accept it’s a s**t run we’ve been on but we still have a lot to play for and today really wasn’t as bad as people are making out.
New lad looks decent, pacy and good movement so hopefully with one or two more additions we’ll be back to where we should be.

I was surrounded by a fair few idiots today whinging and moaning for the sake of moaning, why not put that energy into supporting the boys. Someone shouted something to Gibson in the 2nd half and he wasn’t happy, granted he didn’t have his best game but that type of crap doesn’t help.
Just be very careful what you wish for as we could be back to the Schofield/mccsheffery days if we’re not careful

[ncRover]

Wow, it just gets worse.
There simply is no cohesion as a team, and it's like they are playing through treacle every match.

Why the hell does mcann think Billy can play as a lone striker ?! When everyone can see that it simply doesn't work.

The subs were baffling, it just made us worse, Fleming for maxwell?!! What's the point ?! Then Fleming gets done within  30 seconds of being on the pitch.


Few people are saying McCann is on thin ice with supporters, and I tend to agree. Won't be long before he's getting pelters from the stands .

Disagree totally.

That is best we have played in a while.

Dominated the game for 60mins. The subs changed the game in a bad way for 10-15mins but then we got back on top.

I've not heard anyone saying GM is on thin ice, if I did then I would let em know how stupid that comment was.

The new signing looked very good when he came on. Couple more like that and we will be fine.

Keeping possession by building out to Sterry who turns and passes backwards and sideways when he’s no options in front of him is not dominating the football game.

No plan for the final third.

He played a great ball inside the full back for street and smashed one in the top corner from 25 yards plus two other shots on target from the edge of the box.
Street is going to cause havoc for teams with those runs

You misunderstand my post.

Sterry had a good game, but he’s not going to smash it in from 25 yards every week.

And unless he suddenly turns in to Trent Alexander-Arnold a set-up like today is going to continue to fail.

[Pliskin]

I don't care how much possession we had, or how little Port Vale threatened - we were disappointing again.

No quality and no urgency in attack, and too easy to score against.

Port Vale are probably the side that have offered the least in attack out of all the teams we've played at home this season, and they've still got the better of us. They must be laughing their b*llocks off.

Other than Billy's shot in the first half we barely created any problems for them until we started launching it near the end.

When Molyneux is off the boil we've seemingly got nothing much else to offer in terms of creativity.

It's just not good enough.

[BillyStubbsTears]

It's not converting chances that's the problem. We are simply not creating enough good ones.

Once again, we've run into a brick wall against a low block. Time and again it's happening. We are WAY too ponderous with the ball, and in the first half in particular there was very little movement from the midfield and attack when we had the ball at the back. There was frequently a 30-40 yard hole between their front 2 and midfield crying out for someone to drop in and take the ball on the half turn but we did it no more than a couple of times.

It's still not crisis time, but it's coming very quickly if we don't solve this problem. 14 points from the last 11 games is starting to tell a serious story. In particular the form against promotion rivals - 2 points in the last 5 matches.

If we assume we need 80 points for 3rd place, we now need to pick up 40 from the last 21 matches. P21 W12 D4 L5. We are WAY off looking like being able to do that given performances over the last 10 weeks.

Don’t start with all that again,
“We look miles away from being able to achieve that” nonsense.
We all know how that went last season

We got in behind today a few times, more than we have in most games for a while, street could make a big difference

Last year was a once in a hundred years event.

Yes it was phenomenal, but if you're expecting that to happen again, you're a fool.

I'm saying nothing other than the bleeding obvious. We are not playing well at the moment and haven't been doing so now for a quarter of a season. It has to change. Very quickly.

[dickos1]

It's not converting chances that's the problem. We are simply not creating enough good ones.

Once again, we've run into a brick wall against a low block. Time and again it's happening. We are WAY too ponderous with the ball, and in the first half in particular there was very little movement from the midfield and attack when we had the ball at the back. There was frequently a 30-40 yard hole between their front 2 and midfield crying out for someone to drop in and take the ball on the half turn but we did it no more than a couple of times.

It's still not crisis time, but it's coming very quickly if we don't solve this problem. 14 points from the last 11 games is starting to tell a serious story. In particular the form against promotion rivals - 2 points in the last 5 matches.

If we assume we need 80 points for 3rd place, we now need to pick up 40 from the last 21 matches. P21 W12 D4 L5. We are WAY off looking like being able to do that given performances over the last 10 weeks.

Don’t start with all that again,
“We look miles away from being able to achieve that” nonsense.
We all know how that went last season

We got in behind today a few times, more than we have in most games for a while, street could make a big difference

Last year was a once in a hundred years event.

Yes it was phenomenal, but if you're expecting that to happen again, you're a fool.

I'm saying nothing other than the bleeding obvious. We are not playing well at the moment and haven't been doing so now for a quarter of a season. It has to change. Very quickly.

It wouldn’t need to happen again, if you think that then you’re a fool.
A marginal improvement is all that’s needed to reach the autos

[GazLaz]

It's not converting chances that's the problem. We are simply not creating enough good ones.

Once again, we've run into a brick wall against a low block. Time and again it's happening. We are WAY too ponderous with the ball, and in the first half in particular there was very little movement from the midfield and attack when we had the ball at the back. There was frequently a 30-40 yard hole between their front 2 and midfield crying out for someone to drop in and take the ball on the half turn but we did it no more than a couple of times.

It's still not crisis time, but it's coming very quickly if we don't solve this problem. 14 points from the last 11 games is starting to tell a serious story. In particular the form against promotion rivals - 2 points in the last 5 matches.

If we assume we need 80 points for 3rd place, we now need to pick up 40 from the last 21 matches. P21 W12 D4 L5. We are WAY off looking like being able to do that given performances over the last 10 weeks.

All correct. We need to have 20+ shots per game with the current average quality of chances we create.

Fact of today is we created better chances than the opposition but lost the game

Yes we probably did create the better chances but not enough to ensure we were odds on to win the game. We created <1 goals worth of chances. As did Vale. In games like that you are dependant on luck going your way to win the game. You can decrease the amount of luck required by… creating more chances.

Notts County created three times the quality of chances we did today for example, and remarkably won at a canter.

[GazLaz]

It's not converting chances that's the problem. We are simply not creating enough good ones.

Once again, we've run into a brick wall against a low block. Time and again it's happening. We are WAY too ponderous with the ball, and in the first half in particular there was very little movement from the midfield and attack when we had the ball at the back. There was frequently a 30-40 yard hole between their front 2 and midfield crying out for someone to drop in and take the ball on the half turn but we did it no more than a couple of times.

It's still not crisis time, but it's coming very quickly if we don't solve this problem. 14 points from the last 11 games is starting to tell a serious story. In particular the form against promotion rivals - 2 points in the last 5 matches.

If we assume we need 80 points for 3rd place, we now need to pick up 40 from the last 21 matches. P21 W12 D4 L5. We are WAY off looking like being able to do that given performances over the last 10 weeks.

Don’t start with all that again,
“We look miles away from being able to achieve that” nonsense.
We all know how that went last season

We got in behind today a few times, more than we have in most games for a while, street could make a big difference

Last year was a once in a hundred years event.

Yes it was phenomenal, but if you're expecting that to happen again, you're a fool.

I'm saying nothing other than the bleeding obvious. We are not playing well at the moment and haven't been doing so now for a quarter of a season. It has to change. Very quickly.

It wouldn’t need to happen again, if you think that then you’re a fool.
A marginal improvement is all that’s needed to reach the autos

We are as likely not to improve as we are to improve.

If we maintain this form we won’t get top 3. Winning the league was the goal and we are falling short of that.

[dickos1]

It's not converting chances that's the problem. We are simply not creating enough good ones.

Once again, we've run into a brick wall against a low block. Time and again it's happening. We are WAY too ponderous with the ball, and in the first half in particular there was very little movement from the midfield and attack when we had the ball at the back. There was frequently a 30-40 yard hole between their front 2 and midfield crying out for someone to drop in and take the ball on the half turn but we did it no more than a couple of times.

It's still not crisis time, but it's coming very quickly if we don't solve this problem. 14 points from the last 11 games is starting to tell a serious story. In particular the form against promotion rivals - 2 points in the last 5 matches.

If we assume we need 80 points for 3rd place, we now need to pick up 40 from the last 21 matches. P21 W12 D4 L5. We are WAY off looking like being able to do that given performances over the last 10 weeks.

All correct. We need to have 20+ shots per game with the current average quality of chances we create.

Fact of today is we created better chances than the opposition but lost the game

Yes we probably did create the better chances but not enough to ensure we were odds on to win the game. We created &lt;1 goals worth of chances. As did Vale. In games like that you are dependant on luck going your way to win the game. You can decrease the amount of luck required by… creating more chances.

Notts County created three times the quality of chances we did today for example, and remarkably won at a canter.

To be fair they were playing a side in 22nd place whereas we were playing the title favourites with the most expensive squad in the league.
They were 2-0 up today with their only 2 shots at goal, they had 0 shots off target and 0 blocked shots

[BillyStubbsTears]

It's not converting chances that's the problem. We are simply not creating enough good ones.

Once again, we've run into a brick wall against a low block. Time and again it's happening. We are WAY too ponderous with the ball, and in the first half in particular there was very little movement from the midfield and attack when we had the ball at the back. There was frequently a 30-40 yard hole between their front 2 and midfield crying out for someone to drop in and take the ball on the half turn but we did it no more than a couple of times.

It's still not crisis time, but it's coming very quickly if we don't solve this problem. 14 points from the last 11 games is starting to tell a serious story. In particular the form against promotion rivals - 2 points in the last 5 matches.

If we assume we need 80 points for 3rd place, we now need to pick up 40 from the last 21 matches. P21 W12 D4 L5. We are WAY off looking like being able to do that given performances over the last 10 weeks.

Don’t start with all that again,
“We look miles away from being able to achieve that” nonsense.
We all know how that went last season

We got in behind today a few times, more than we have in most games for a while, street could make a big difference

Last year was a once in a hundred years event.

Yes it was phenomenal, but if you're expecting that to happen again, you're a fool.

I'm saying nothing other than the bleeding obvious. We are not playing well at the moment and haven't been doing so now for a quarter of a season. It has to change. Very quickly.

It wouldn’t need to happen again, if you think that then you’re a fool.
A marginal improvement is all that’s needed to reach the autos

Big deep breath.

A MAJOR improvement on our current form is required.

[ncRover]

It's not converting chances that's the problem. We are simply not creating enough good ones.

Once again, we've run into a brick wall against a low block. Time and again it's happening. We are WAY too ponderous with the ball, and in the first half in particular there was very little movement from the midfield and attack when we had the ball at the back. There was frequently a 30-40 yard hole between their front 2 and midfield crying out for someone to drop in and take the ball on the half turn but we did it no more than a couple of times.

It's still not crisis time, but it's coming very quickly if we don't solve this problem. 14 points from the last 11 games is starting to tell a serious story. In particular the form against promotion rivals - 2 points in the last 5 matches.

If we assume we need 80 points for 3rd place, we now need to pick up 40 from the last 21 matches. P21 W12 D4 L5. We are WAY off looking like being able to do that given performances over the last 10 weeks.

All correct. We need to have 20+ shots per game with the current average quality of chances we create.

Fact of today is we created better chances than the opposition but lost the game

Yes we probably did create the better chances but not enough to ensure we were odds on to win the game. We created &lt;1 goals worth of chances. As did Vale. In games like that you are dependant on luck going your way to win the game. You can decrease the amount of luck required by… creating more chances.

Notts County created three times the quality of chances we did today for example, and remarkably won at a canter.

To be fair they were playing a side in 22nd place whereas we were playing the title favourites with the most expensive squad in the league.
They were 2-0 up today with their only 2 shots at goal, they had 0 shots off target and 0 blocked shots

Are we 12th in the 20 game form table due to bad luck?

Look at the teams above us in this form table, then look at the actual table.

https://www.flashscore.co.uk/football/england/league-two/standings/#/M3J0XCWq/form/overall/20

[dickos1]

20 game form table, ha ha that’s hilarious.

[dickos1]

It's not converting chances that's the problem. We are simply not creating enough good ones.

Once again, we've run into a brick wall against a low block. Time and again it's happening. We are WAY too ponderous with the ball, and in the first half in particular there was very little movement from the midfield and attack when we had the ball at the back. There was frequently a 30-40 yard hole between their front 2 and midfield crying out for someone to drop in and take the ball on the half turn but we did it no more than a couple of times.

It's still not crisis time, but it's coming very quickly if we don't solve this problem. 14 points from the last 11 games is starting to tell a serious story. In particular the form against promotion rivals - 2 points in the last 5 matches.

If we assume we need 80 points for 3rd place, we now need to pick up 40 from the last 21 matches. P21 W12 D4 L5. We are WAY off looking like being able to do that given performances over the last 10 weeks.

Don’t start with all that again,
“We look miles away from being able to achieve that” nonsense.
We all know how that went last season

We got in behind today a few times, more than we have in most games for a while, street could make a big difference

Last year was a once in a hundred years event.

Yes it was phenomenal, but if you're expecting that to happen again, you're a fool.

I'm saying nothing other than the bleeding obvious. We are not playing well at the moment and haven't been doing so now for a quarter of a season. It has to change. Very quickly.

It wouldn’t need to happen again, if you think that then you’re a fool.
A marginal improvement is all that’s needed to reach the autos

We are as likely not to improve as we are to improve.

If we maintain this form we won’t get top 3. Winning the league was the goal and we are falling short of that.

Well it’s a 50/50 scenario so that’s a fact for everybody,
And yes of course the aim was the title but promotion is the aim regardless of how we get there

[ncRover]

20 game form table, ha ha that’s hilarious.

What’s a better sample size for you? 10 games or 15 games? Because we’re 12th and 13th in those respectively.

[dickos1]

Just the league table

[BillyStubbsTears]

It's not converting chances that's the problem. We are simply not creating enough good ones.

Once again, we've run into a brick wall against a low block. Time and again it's happening. We are WAY too ponderous with the ball, and in the first half in particular there was very little movement from the midfield and attack when we had the ball at the back. There was frequently a 30-40 yard hole between their front 2 and midfield crying out for someone to drop in and take the ball on the half turn but we did it no more than a couple of times.

It's still not crisis time, but it's coming very quickly if we don't solve this problem. 14 points from the last 11 games is starting to tell a serious story. In particular the form against promotion rivals - 2 points in the last 5 matches.

If we assume we need 80 points for 3rd place, we now need to pick up 40 from the last 21 matches. P21 W12 D4 L5. We are WAY off looking like being able to do that given performances over the last 10 weeks.

All correct. We need to have 20+ shots per game with the current average quality of chances we create.

One of the very, very few times that someone (Bailey in this case) went into that hole in the first half, within 5-6 seconds we had our best chance(s) of the match with the shots from Sharp and Molyneux.

It was just farcical that we didn't do it more.

Either the team was instructed not to have players drop into that hole, or the players weren't smart enough to see it. It's the latter that worries me. In recent games we've looked like a bit of a disorganised rabble, with everyone expecting someone else to take responsibility.

It's painfully obvious that opponents expect us to attack down the flanks from deep, and they are setting themselves up to block that route.

When they do that, it is vital that someone should drop into that hole to pick the ball up and drive at them through the middle. At the very least that means we can get  balls out to the flanks further up the pitch.

[DonnyOsmond]

Just the league table

But can't you understand if we carry on recent form we won't be where we currently are in the table or any higher, we're only heading one way.

[dickos1]

Last season showed the only thing that matters is the final league table. We’ve had good form and we’ve had not so good form as will all teams in this league, it’s where we finish that matters

[ncRover]

Just the league table

Cutting edge analysis.

So when we were lower mid table with really good form last season you were bringing everyone down to earth by saying “look at the league table”?

[Fal]

Just the league table

Cutting edge analysis.

So when we were lower mid table with really good form last season you were bringing everyone down to earth by saying “look at the league table”?

Think you are missing the point, McCann repeatedly said last season it’s not how you start it’s how you finish. Our form was awful until February and if changed.


Just because the last 10 games we haven’t been at our best doesn’t mean the next 10 games will follow suit.


Could you honestly see Salfords current run of form? It likely won’t last and they may fall away.


We are just in a batch of teams who are just massively inconsistent and all it takes it 2 wins things look rosey again.

[colincramb]

We are dropping points at an alarming rate currently and got out of jail against fleetwood. If it weren’t for a lucky 92nd winner off the post, we’d have only picked up 5 points from the last 5 games.

As it goes, we’ve actually got 7. That’s a return over Christmas of 1.4pts per game. It was almost only 1ppg. Thats well below promotion form. It’s been a pretty abysmal Christmas period.

If we repeat the current form over the next 5, games we will be on 47 points, with 16 games left. We’d need to average over 2 points a game over the last 16 to break 79 points. Big ask.

What that tells me is the next 5 games are massive.

[dickos1]

Just the league table

Cutting edge analysis.

So when we were lower mid table with really good form last season you were bringing everyone down to earth by saying “look at the league table”?

Well it is all that matters, picking a sample of form to back an argument doesn’t mean much.

[colincramb]

Just the league table

Cutting edge analysis.

So when we were lower mid table with really good form last season you were bringing everyone down to earth by saying “look at the league table”?

Well it is all that matters, picking a sample of form to back an argument doesn’t mean much.

I’d argue 20 games (just shy of half a season) is a pretty reasonable sample. Teams around pick up points in their games in hand and we won’t be far off 12th, will we.

[Barmby Rover]

We have two wingers who don't want the ball and fail to beat their counterparts, we have no central midfield with enough guile to draw players towards them and beat them for pace or by dribbling past defenders. No wonder our front players can't score and our back 4 play amongst themselves for 30% of our possession. It is alright to make mistakes in defence, it should be alright to make mistake by trying to punch forward.

[dickos1]

Just the league table

Cutting edge analysis.

So when we were lower mid table with really good form last season you were bringing everyone down to earth by saying “look at the league table”?

Well it is all that matters, picking a sample of form to back an argument doesn’t mean much.

I’d argue 20 games (just shy of half a season) is a pretty reasonable sample. Teams around pick up points in their games in hand and we won’t be far off 12th, will we.

It’s not form though is it?
Form is 3/4 games not 20.
If you’re going off 20 you may aswell just use the league table which is 25, people are just taking those 5 games off to back a negative argument

[StocksArmy]

That first 45 minutes was in my opinion the best we have played at home in a long time. For all the balls into their box and shots blocked etc it was the one thing that we have lacked all season long. Pace from Hackford and being direct. His first thought was run into the space, get into the box and cross it. Their first and only chance of the game when we were well on top. My finger is going to point at the manager again and I’ll repeat myself. His players, his signings, his tactics so for me he takes the brunt of the blame. It can’t not be. Recruitment to replace Craig and Adelakun started in the summer not January.