Meet the Owners

[selby]

  It would cost too much for most teams.

[andy didcott]

Only three or four out of 200 people put their hands up in favour of var.

[scawsby steve]

Great stuff. Most worrying take home is that some people put their hands up in favour of VAR in the lower leagues. Who and why? 

Well I wasn't there, and I understand your concerns. However, people go on every week about the atrocious refereeing in League 2, and rightly so, because it sometimes costs us points. VAR would stop most of that, but would take away much of the spontaneity.

So which is it, lack of spontaneity, or robbery of points? You can't have it both ways.

[Prez]

Great stuff. Most worrying take home is that some people put their hands up in favour of VAR in the lower leagues. Who and why? 

I did. Im in favour of it. Have you seen some of the shocking decisions we have been on the end of? Nothing wrong with VAR its only showing whats happened.

[Lincoln Rover]

In principle I agree with VAR.
The problem is, we’ve gone from the clear & obvious mistakes to now analysing the most minuscule offside. It isn’t going to happen at L2/1 in my opinion, but again I believe in the initial concept.

[drfchound]

In principle I agree with VAR.
The problem is, we’ve gone from the clear & obvious mistakes to now analysing the most minuscule offside. It isn’t going to happen at L2/1 in my opinion, but again I believe in the initial concept.

This is exactly what I was saying to some pals on Monday.
Taking an age to reach a decision definitely isn’t sorting out a clear and obvious mistake by the officials on the pitch.

[Dagenham Rover]

In principle I agree with VAR.
The problem is, we’ve gone from the clear & obvious mistakes to now analysing the most minuscule offside. It isn’t going to happen at L2/1 in my opinion, but again I believe in the initial concept.

I agree Oh look his fingernail is offside if he had cut them this morning it would have been ok. They need to stick to Clear and Obvious  not his big toe is offside

[dknward2]

For me if it’s an offside decision and can’t be decided within 60 seconds the the on field decision stands, handball and dangerous play then fine take a bit longer to get the right decision

[DonnyBazR0ver]

These things are not going to solve the inconsistent interpretation of the rules which is everyone's bugbear.

[Ian Nimmo]

We put our hand up, because whilst their are still some problems with VAR, we believe it will help in some way to making the refs accountable for their very poor decisions when goals are scored against us.

However VAR does need to be extended and improved so that other incidents within a game can be reviewed, ie the yellow card situations.
With continued advancement of technology etc. it should be feasible to review instances like this without stopping games.

I would consider that the majority of supporters of all clubs are seriously concerned regards the decline in the capability of officials, so we must look at everything which may be available to improve decisions. So surely extending var must be a consideration.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

What about improving the competence of officials rather than hiring hundreds of more VAR officials, who are likely to be as just as inconsistent. How many more officials does it need to play a game of football more fairly than it does now?

If there are ways to use technology to help the existing officials then explore it however, there maybe limitations with this if games will require more cameras to be installed and operated. These are more likely to be sledgehammer to crack a nut.

What about ex players putting something back into the game by being rewarded well for going into officiating using their experience to interpret the rules better than someone who hasn't played the game?

What about helping officials by giving them the opportunity to review their own decisions rather than someone else refereeing the referee? I.e. being able to look at incidents again from whatever camera angle is available. If it's not conclusive then stick to the original decisions etc. (Obviously not every minor decision can be reviewed so yes, there needs to be some mechanism that triggers a review..an appeal from a team captain maybe in limited circumstances?) Referees can't continue to be treated as villains and be given as much help as possible to do their job well. 

Then finding ways of keeping the crowd informed...just a simple announcement by the ref?

None of anything being suggested is going to make the game free of mistakes and everyone has to accept that, but if we can reduce the risks of incorrect key decisions then we should without sucking the life out of the game.

[i_ateallthepies]

Perhaps some of the problems arise from the over-complication of certain rules such as offside.  Get rid of the complication and make the decision-making simpler for the officials.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

Perhaps some of the problems arise from the over-complication of certain rules such as offside.  Get rid of the complication and make the decision-making simpler for the officials.

Definitely! And made worse where cheating is encouraged, tolerated and even coached by those who are the loudest critics of the Referees. Yes, you Messrs Evans and Raynor to name but few.

[ForsolongaRover]

We put our hand up, because whilst their are still some problems with VAR, we believe it will help in some way to making the refs accountable for their very poor decisions when goals are scored against us.

However VAR does need to be extended and improved so that other incidents within a game can be reviewed, ie the yellow card situations.
With continued advancement of technology etc. it should be feasible to review instances like this without stopping games.

I would consider that the majority of supporters of all clubs are seriously concerned regards the decline in the capability of officials, so we must look at everything which may be available to improve decisions. So surely extending var must be a consideration.

Whether the standard of refereeing has deteriorated is debatable. What has entered the reckoning is the video replay, not only in the form of VAR, but also, potentially, of every tackle via standard TV and slow- motion replay. What has also highlighted the strength of opinions is social media debate and the whole attitude to “authority”. Believe it or not, there was a time when I was younger, which goes back to WW2 when “officials” and official bodies were actually respected by the majority of the population.

I don’t want to widen the debate to how, in times gone by, it was assumed by the man in the street that (for example) policeman were honest and did not have to go round in twos because Courts were generally prepared to accept that their evidence would be honest, but it serves as a background to how a belief in people doing the job of keeping order in some aspect of daily life were regarded. So, back then, the debate over refereeing decisions which certainly took place, ended by the time the match-goers had discussed events and got back home.

As time has gone on, so has the intensity of meticulous examinations of refereeing decisions gone on, and on. And even amongst most of us, who “study” the game a bit more intensely than the average match-goer, bias often stands out. It isn’t easy, when you want to see you side win, to recognise the incidents where your own team escapes a yellow card and equally, to repress the desire to call for the opponent to be booked when one of your favourite players is the victim. And none of your team are ever “cheats” are they? And “taking one for the team” is widely praised isn’t it - if it’s your player doing the taking!

Fundamentally, I disagree that there is evidence that the situation is worse now than ever. For example, I wonder how many people actually refer to the FA’s “Laws of the Game” to check exactly what it says about such things as “Obvious Goal Scoring Opportunity”. In debating this, more often than not, the phrase  “the last man” is quoted - even by TV commentators. That is nowhere in the rules, yet opinions are often based entirely around it.

Finally, the modern game has become more and more challenging to referee. You see so many corners in televised PL matches which are strewn with foul play. There is good reason to believe that teams practice the harassment of goalkeepers. Matches could be held up indefinitely if referees insisted on fair play there. One way to clean it up would be to restrict the number of players allowed in the box, but that’s another debate.

[JonWallsend]

Some very reasoned responses on here regarding VAR.  However, as SS alludes to VAR removes spontaneity and absolutely kills the unbridled joy that you feel as a fan, when after a fleeting  glance at the ref and lino, you  are able to celebrate  a goal, especially  a last minute  winner.
Everything  has become too forensic. I agree that managers have largely  brought  this on themselves by whinging  about an incorrectly  awarded throw in etc. Perhaps over simplistic but for every decision that incorrectly  goes against your team, there will be ones that incorrectly go for you.
Football is about moments and moments  such as Brentford, Wembley,  Cardiff and Stoke would  not have been the experience that they were with VAR and for that reason I am against it

[silent majority]

It seems that Norway is doing the right thing and getting rid;

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2025/jan/22/norway-on-verge-of-abolishing-var-from-domestic-leagues-after-club-vote

[i_ateallthepies]

We put our hand up, because whilst their are still some problems with VAR, we believe it will help in some way to making the refs accountable for their very poor decisions when goals are scored against us.

However VAR does need to be extended and improved so that other incidents within a game can be reviewed, ie the yellow card situations.
With continued advancement of technology etc. it should be feasible to review instances like this without stopping games.

I would consider that the majority of supporters of all clubs are seriously concerned regards the decline in the capability of officials, so we must look at everything which may be available to improve decisions. So surely extending var must be a consideration.

Whether the standard of refereeing has deteriorated is debatable. What has entered the reckoning is the video replay, not only in the form of VAR, but also, potentially, of every tackle via standard TV and slow- motion replay. What has also highlighted the strength of opinions is social media debate and the whole attitude to “authority”. Believe it or not, there was a time when I was younger, which goes back to WW2 when “officials” and official bodies were actually respected by the majority of the population.

I don’t want to widen the debate to how, in times gone by, it was assumed by the man in the street that (for example) policeman were honest and did not have to go round in twos because Courts were generally prepared to accept that their evidence would be honest, but it serves as a background to how a belief in people doing the job of keeping order in some aspect of daily life were regarded. So, back then, the debate over refereeing decisions which certainly took place, ended by the time the match-goers had discussed events and got back home.

As time has gone on, so has the intensity of meticulous examinations of refereeing decisions gone on, and on. And even amongst most of us, who “study” the game a bit more intensely than the average match-goer, bias often stands out. It isn’t easy, when you want to see you side win, to recognise the incidents where your own team escapes a yellow card and equally, to repress the desire to call for the opponent to be booked when one of your favourite players is the victim. And none of your team are ever “cheats” are they? And “taking one for the team” is widely praised isn’t it - if it’s your player doing the taking!

Fundamentally, I disagree that there is evidence that the situation is worse now than ever. For example, I wonder how many people actually refer to the FA’s “Laws of the Game” to check exactly what it says about such things as “Obvious Goal Scoring Opportunity”. In debating this, more often than not, the phrase  “the last man” is quoted - even by TV commentators. That is nowhere in the rules, yet opinions are often based entirely around it.

Finally, the modern game has become more and more challenging to referee. You see so many corners in televised PL matches which are strewn with foul play. There is good reason to believe that teams practice the harassment of goalkeepers. Matches could be held up indefinitely if referees insisted on fair play there. One way to clean it up would be to restrict the number of players allowed in the box, but that’s another debate.

I agree with much of this and am certain that the vast majority of dissatisfaction with refereeing can properly be dismissed as simply our inbuilt bias in favour of our own teams.  I completely include myself in this and just have to give myself a talking to every now and then.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

Some very reasoned responses on here regarding VAR.  However, as SS alludes to VAR removes spontaneity and absolutely kills the unbridled joy that you feel as a fan, when after a fleeting  glance at the ref and lino, you  are able to celebrate  a goal, especially  a last minute  winner.
Everything  has become too forensic. I agree that managers have largely  brought  this on themselves by whinging  about an incorrectly  awarded throw in etc. Perhaps over simplistic but for every decision that incorrectly  goes against your team, there will be ones that incorrectly go for you.
Football is about moments and moments  such as Brentford, Wembley,  Cardiff and Stoke would  not have been the experience that they were with VAR and for that reason I am against it

I don't necessarily agree about removing the spontaneity as we will continue to celebrate the ball hitting the back of the net. Even now, without VAR, we don't always see the flag already up, cheers ring round until it dawns on us, it's not given. Another example recently when Moly scored and I was convinced he was offside and didn't even stand up, only then to realise the goal stood.

With VAR, we can have two celebrations for the price of one, the second when a goal is confirmed, or disallowed if it's the opposition etc.

[EasyforDennis]

If we get VAR in the EFL (and I hope we don't), who will the var's be? What level of competence will they be if they are not qualified enough to be refereeing games themselves?

[richtherover]

The problem with VAR is that they're trying to match 19th century rules against 21st century technology. A player pointing for the ball or ahead by a toenail is surely not offside. The micro managing of the game is sucking the life out of it. It's sad to see every player's reaction when they score now is to look at the linesman. I believe in the old adage of things evening themselves out. However, the standard of referreeing in general is appalling, especially in League 2. Then again, we could have done with some technology when England played Argentina in '86. Even Maradona couldn't believe it was given. It was what it was. Anyway, bring on Harrogate. RTID.

[ForsolongaRover]

The problem with VAR is that they're trying to match 19th century rules against 21st century technology. A player pointing for the ball or ahead by a toenail is surely not offside. The micro managing of the game is sucking the life out of it. It's sad to see every player's reaction when they score now is to look at the linesman. I believe in the old adage of things evening themselves out. However, the standard of referreeing in general is appalling, especially in League 2. Then again, we could have done with some technology when England played Argentina in '86. Even Maradona couldn't believe it was given. It was what it was. Anyway, bring on Harrogate. RTID.

It was a well-meant and necessary 19th century rule/“Law” change and the modern game needs it just as much now as it did then. Having adopted it, the rational response is to accept it. I remember that the old maxim in umpiring cricket ( - pre technology) was to give the batsman - sorry “batter” - the benefit of the doubt in fine LBW or catch decisions because he only had one chance compared with the bowler.

There can be no “balance of probability” or “beyond reasonable doubt” with VAR though and whilst I have made no study of the reception it received, there was clearly a convincing majority of those who favoured it. If we didn’t have it, things would be no better. Wrong decisions would be made and they would surely be subjected to video analysis and the ire would surround the hairline decisions which went against the team you support.

To take a balanced view you have to eliminate emotions and that’s probably impossible for all of us especially when we are so deeply invested.

Finally Rich, I agree that on a practical level, we have to accept that there is a fair chance of things evening themselves out, but it’s not easy and for some, more or less impossible.

[drfchound]

I often wonder how many of our refs have actually played football, even at Sunday league level.
Some of the things they miss are incredibly easy to spot.
For example, the sly nudge to one side of a player who is jumping to head a ball, how many times does that go unnoticed.
Then there is the shirt pull which holds a player back and makes him look like he is doing a moonwalk.
There is a sizeable list of these things which everyone but the ref can see.

[scawsby steve]

I often wonder how many of our refs have actually played football, even at Sunday league level.
Some of the things they miss are incredibly easy to spot.
For example, the sly nudge to one side of a player who is jumping to head a ball, how many times does that go unnoticed.
Then there is the shirt pull which holds a player back and makes him look like he is doing a moonwalk.
There is a sizeable list of these things which everyone but the ref can see.

Strangely enough, mate, one of the best refs in the world, Michael Oliver, has obviously played no football since his early schooldays, if at all. He began refereeing at 14, and was refereeing in the Northern League at just 18.

I personally think good eyesight and expert understanding of the rules are more important than experience of playing. JMHO.

[drfchound]

I often wonder how many of our refs have actually played football, even at Sunday league level.
Some of the things they miss are incredibly easy to spot.
For example, the sly nudge to one side of a player who is jumping to head a ball, how many times does that go unnoticed.
Then there is the shirt pull which holds a player back and makes him look like he is doing a moonwalk.
There is a sizeable list of these things which everyone but the ref can see.

Strangely enough, mate, one of the best refs in the world, Michael Oliver, has obviously played no football since his early schooldays, if at all. He began refereeing at 14, and was refereeing in the Northern League at just 18.

I personally think good eyesight and expert understanding of the rules are more important than experience of playing. JMHO.

That’s fair enough mate, but as you state there, MO is one of the best in the World.
Sadly the ones we get are nowhere near that.
They probably aren’t even the best in the stadium.

[PDX_Rover]

I think a referee in each half would make sense as a potential method of improving officiating.

[drfchound]

I often wonder how many of our refs have actually played football, even at Sunday league level.
Some of the things they miss are incredibly easy to spot.
For example, the sly nudge to one side of a player who is jumping to head a ball, how many times does that go unnoticed.
Then there is the shirt pull which holds a player back and makes him look like he is doing a moonwalk.
There is a sizeable list of these things which everyone but the ref can see.

Just to go back to this, I know we are all biased Rovers fans but how on Earth did it take about 40 minutes for the ref to penalise the Harrogate defender for persistently fouling Ironside.

[BobG]

I often wonder how many of our refs have actually played football, even at Sunday league level.
Some of the things they miss are incredibly easy to spot.
For example, the sly nudge to one side of a player who is jumping to head a ball, how many times does that go unnoticed.
Then there is the shirt pull which holds a player back and makes him look like he is doing a moonwalk.
There is a sizeable list of these things which everyone but the ref can see.

Strangely enough, mate, one of the best refs in the world, Michael Oliver, has obviously played no football since his early schooldays, if at all. He began refereeing at 14, and was refereeing in the Northern League at just 18.

I personally think good eyesight and expert understanding of the rules are more important than experience of playing. JMHO.

Hi Steve

I gotta watch MotD tonight. The commentators at Molineux today were apoplectic about the sending off of the Arsenal lad. I thought as you do about Michael Oliver. But I think we ought to watch MotD tonight....

BobG

[NickDRFC]

I often wonder how many of our refs have actually played football, even at Sunday league level.
Some of the things they miss are incredibly easy to spot.
For example, the sly nudge to one side of a player who is jumping to head a ball, how many times does that go unnoticed.
Then there is the shirt pull which holds a player back and makes him look like he is doing a moonwalk.
There is a sizeable list of these things which everyone but the ref can see.

Strangely enough, mate, one of the best refs in the world, Michael Oliver, has obviously played no football since his early schooldays, if at all. He began refereeing at 14, and was refereeing in the Northern League at just 18.

I personally think good eyesight and expert understanding of the rules are more important than experience of playing. JMHO.

Hi Steve

I gotta watch MotD tonight. The commentators at Molineux today were apoplectic about the sending off of the Arsenal lad. I thought as you do about Michael Oliver. But I think we ought to watch MotD tonight....

BobG

Baffling decision. If that’s a red then you’d see hundreds across the country every week. Two things that are worse than the original decision though:

1. Why is VAR not intervening? The ref can make mistakes in real time but the VAR has to be overturning that as a clear and obvious error.

2. The second yellow given to Gomes was worse than Lewis-Skelly’s. Yes, the end result was the same but he should have been issued a straight red if Lewis-Skelly’s challenge warranted it. Inconsistency across games is hard to eradicate but consistency within games should be the bare minimum.

If there’s that level of inconsistency and incompetence right at the top level then what hope do we have in League Two?

[GazLaz]

I often wonder how many of our refs have actually played football, even at Sunday league level.
Some of the things they miss are incredibly easy to spot.
For example, the sly nudge to one side of a player who is jumping to head a ball, how many times does that go unnoticed.
Then there is the shirt pull which holds a player back and makes him look like he is doing a moonwalk.
There is a sizeable list of these things which everyone but the ref can see.

Strangely enough, mate, one of the best refs in the world, Michael Oliver, has obviously played no football since his early schooldays, if at all. He began refereeing at 14, and was refereeing in the Northern League at just 18.

I personally think good eyesight and expert understanding of the rules are more important than experience of playing. JMHO.

Hi Steve

I gotta watch MotD tonight. The commentators at Molineux today were apoplectic about the sending off of the Arsenal lad. I thought as you do about Michael Oliver. But I think we ought to watch MotD tonight....

BobG

Baffling decision. If that’s a red then you’d see hundreds across the country every week. Two things that are worse than the original decision though:

1. Why is VAR not intervening? The ref can make mistakes in real time but the VAR has to be overturning that as a clear and obvious error.

2. The second yellow given to Gomes was worse than Lewis-Skelly’s. Yes, the end result was the same but he should have been issued a straight red if Lewis-Skelly’s challenge warranted it. Inconsistency across games is hard to eradicate but consistency within games should be the bare minimum.

If there’s that level of inconsistency and incompetence right at the top level then what hope do we have in League Two?

The Arsenal red card was warranted. He just booted the Wolves player and the ball was 2m away. You can’t just kick people.

[colincramb]

Come on Gaz, it’s never a red card. It will probably be rescinded.

On another note. No idea what we’ve done with the PA system. No longer even audible in west stand. Whatever they have done has made it 100x worse