Promotion race

[RoseTInteD]

We are hampered by too many draws and not enough wins, and the clock is fast ticking down.

[Bills view]

There's no easy games for any team.

Let's hope we play well, get a bit of luck, don't suffer from bad refereeing decisions and we do enough to get the points we need for a top three finish.

We're still in the mix.

[andy didcott]

Cracking end to the season is this one, I really do believe we won’t lose a game.

[Filo]

We could do with Notts County out of the chance for auto promotion, and then possibly resting their better players for the play offs

[dickos1]

6 game form table and 10 game form has us higher than all our rivals other than port vale

So nobody around is flying, we’re in a good position.

Imagine in August being told we would be joint 3rd and only 4 points off the top with 4 games to go
You’d snap their hands off

We’re not joint third, we are fourth

I suppose that’s a typical doncaster rovers fan way of looking at it,
We’re actually both

Either way I know for a fact all you lot moaning would’ve been the ones snapping my hand off if if offered what we are now with 4 games to go

If today was the last day of the season we are 4th.  That's all there is to it. You are away with the fairies. Facts are facts.

Dear me
I’ve had to explain 3 times now, I’m not talking about at the end of the season, talking about now

[Filo]

6 game form table and 10 game form has us higher than all our rivals other than port vale

So nobody around is flying, we’re in a good position.

Imagine in August being told we would be joint 3rd and only 4 points off the top with 4 games to go
You’d snap their hands off

We’re not joint third, we are fourth

I suppose that’s a typical doncaster rovers fan way of looking at it,
We’re actually both

Either way I know for a fact all you lot moaning would’ve been the ones snapping my hand off if if offered what we are now with 4 games to go

If today was the last day of the season we are 4th.  That's all there is to it. You are away with the fairies. Facts are facts.

Dear me
I’ve had to explain 3 times now, I’m not talking about at the end of the season, talking about now

And we are still fourth now, look at the table its there in black and white

[dickos1]

Unbeaten in 7
In better form than all our rivals other than 1.
Yet you say not a chance with the way we’re playing.
Crackers

You want to talk about "the way we are playing". Then stop selectively picking recent runs of form and look at the last 23 games. Half a season.

Our recordis
P23 W11 D6 L6 F30 A25 Pts 39 ->78 points over season.

That's possibly just about good enough to squeak us home from here, but it's touch and go.

But now, dig a bit deeper. Look at how we have performed when we've played sides in the two halves of the table on the day of the match.

Record against bottom half sides
P12 W10 D2 L0 F19 A6 Pts32 -> 123 points over a season

Record against top half sides
P11 W1 D4 L6 F11 A19 Pts7 -> 29 points over a season.
(That 1win was against MK Dons who were in 11th place when we played them. They were in the middle of a current run of 3 wins and 4 draws from 21 matches. They,l we're sinking like a stone and would drop into the bottom half for the rest of the season the week after we played them.)

This is what I keep banging on about. We are a side that generally batters lower table sides, but which has now, for half a season, been really, really poor against top half sides. That's not a recent freak set of results. That is a consistent theme stretching back almost 6 months.

And we have 3 sides in the top 8 still to play. We have to do far better than we've done for half a season in those games.

Contrary to what your doing I’m not picking made up numbers of games I’m looking at the wildly published form tables which show 6 and 10 game form.
I’ve also pointed out to you our reaults against the current top 7 are the same as most of the other sides in the top 7.
It’s irrelevant where they were when we played them it’s where they are now.
Everything shows that we’re in better form than our rivals and we’re just as good at playing against the top sides as our rivals, but you keep searching for ways you can put a negative spin on it

[dickos1]

6 game form table and 10 game form has us higher than all our rivals other than port vale

So nobody around is flying, we’re in a good position.

Imagine in August being told we would be joint 3rd and only 4 points off the top with 4 games to go
You’d snap their hands off

We’re not joint third, we are fourth

I suppose that’s a typical doncaster rovers fan way of looking at it,
We’re actually both

Either way I know for a fact all you lot moaning would’ve been the ones snapping my hand off if if offered what we are now with 4 games to go

If today was the last day of the season we are 4th.  That's all there is to it. You are away with the fairies. Facts are facts.

Dear me
I’ve had to explain 3 times now, I’m not talking about at the end of the season, talking about now

And we are still fourth now, look at the table its there in black and white

Yep and on the same points as 3rd place with 4 games to go!
Jesus you lot are hard work

[dickos1]

6 game form table and 10 game form has us higher than all our rivals other than port vale

So nobody around is flying, we’re in a good position.

Imagine in August being told we would be joint 3rd and only 4 points off the top with 4 games to go
You’d snap their hands off

We’re not joint third, we are fourth

I suppose that’s a typical doncaster rovers fan way of looking at it,
We’re actually both

Either way I know for a fact all you lot moaning would’ve been the ones snapping my hand off if if offered what we are now with 4 games to go

If today was the last day of the season we are 4th.  That's all there is to it. You are away with the fairies. Facts are facts.

If..

“If ifs and ands were pots and pans, there’d be no need for tinkers..”

(Frank Soencer, circa 1975)

So you think if we finish on the last day 3rd equal on points (in 4th place) we are not in the play-offs?
I am sure silly quotes will move us into 3rd.

Nope I don’t think that, that would be a very silly way to think wouldn’t it

[Filo]

6 game form table and 10 game form has us higher than all our rivals other than port vale

So nobody around is flying, we’re in a good position.

Imagine in August being told we would be joint 3rd and only 4 points off the top with 4 games to go
You’d snap their hands off

We’re not joint third, we are fourth

I suppose that’s a typical doncaster rovers fan way of looking at it,
We’re actually both

Either way I know for a fact all you lot moaning would’ve been the ones snapping my hand off if if offered what we are now with 4 games to go

If today was the last day of the season we are 4th.  That's all there is to it. You are away with the fairies. Facts are facts.

Dear me
I’ve had to explain 3 times now, I’m not talking about at the end of the season, talking about now

And we are still fourth now, look at the table its there in black and white

Yep and on the same points as 3rd place with 4 games to go!
Jesus you lot are hard work

And an inferior goal difference, you need to look again who is had work

[McCammon egg n chips]

Dickos - I can't take a word you say seriously. You defended every single manager we've had at every single point of their tenures for years. McSheffrey wasn't the problem. Schofield deserved more time. It doesn't matter how low we stoop or how high we rise, there is one constant. You will assiduously defend the manager and the club and the status quo.

To you, there is never any justification for criticising the team or manager, or even our current run. In fact I can't think of any criticism you've ever made.

I actually don't know why you bother. There's no discussion, it's only defending the status quo at all costs.

We all know where we are in the table. We've all got eyes. Have you perhaps wondered why there's so much discontent despite being close to automatic promotion?

[dickos1]

Dickos - I can't take a word you say seriously. You defended every single manager we've had at every single point of their tenures for years. McSheffrey wasn't the problem. Schofield deserved more time. It doesn't matter how low we stoop or how high we rise, there is one constant. You will assiduously defend the manager and the club and the status quo.

To you, there is never any justification for criticising the team or manager, or even our current run. In fact I can't think of any criticism you've ever made.

I actually don't know why you bother. There's no discussion, it's only defending the status quo at all costs.

We all know where we are in the table. We've all got eyes. Have you perhaps wondered why there's so much discontent despite being close to automatic promotion?

There’s no need to wonder!

[dickos1]

Exactly if 3 were in better form than us it would be a worry

You’re not making any sense. You’re saying that we will/should finish in the top 3 because our form is miles better than 2 of the clubs above us.

And you’re also saying that we’re fighting for the title. Despite the fact that top of the league are 4 points ahead of us…and in miles better form than us.

Surely both things can’t be true?

Nope, again I’m not saying that at all

Everyone is writing us off because we’re playing shite, form is terrible etc etc etc
I’m pointing out our form is better than our rivals

And people are saying we should be in a title race, 4 points off the title with 4 games to go is a title race.

[dickos1]

At the end of the day if you’re not positive and excited being 4 points off top spot with 4 games to go then you need to be doing something else with your time.
We even had a Wednesday fan on here the other day in disbelief at the negativity,

I bet Wimbledon and Bradford’s forums aren’t as shambolic and going into meltdown that they’re in a promotion chase

[Plumbster]

Must admit I have come round to Dickos’ way of thinking. If we don’t make it we have all summer to pick the bones- our best chance of avoiding that is to focus on what we can do from here and give the lads as much support and confidence as we can.

[Spud]

Barring the last game, Bradford have a tricky run in, surprised at those thinking it's a race between us & Walsall for the last auto spot. Obviously others still in with a shout too, great end to the season.

[BillyStubbsTears]

BST, your point is well made, and backed up, albeit slightly less dramatically if we take the whole seasons' results and look at the current 11 other top half clubs and the 12 bottom clubs as they now stand in the table. A team's position when we play them might be influenced by games in hand, current form, injuries and suspensions of key players etc, so there is a bit more consistency looking over the whole season with the current table where for the first time in months everyone has played the same number of games..

In that case against the other 11 top half teams our record has been W4, D9, L6, equivalent to 51 points in a season

Against the bottom 12 teams it is W16, D3, L4 for 102 points in a season

Yes we have been flat track bullies against lower teams, but our results against top half teams have been significantly better than 29 points a season.

Also, less analytically, I feel we have been very unfortunate in some matches (e.g. Crewe away, Colchester away), so maybe we will have more of lady luck's influence in the last 4 matches - we are going to need it.        

DU.

I absolutely agree that over the season it's not been as stark as over the last half season. But my argument is that once the season had settled down, I think we've been sussed out by the better sides. I think most realised that we had a system that could be devastating when breaking quickly. The Bradford match was the perfect example - they played very high up the pitch, had a huge amount of possession, but rarely troubled us. We played a solid, disciplined defence them broke with pace, quick passing and sharp movement. Time and again we got in behind their defence and we could easily have put 5 past them.

I suspect that was a wake up call to the division, because since then, no good team has played a very high press against us. Time and again, we've been given lots of possession in our own half and have done next to nothing with it against a well-disciplined defence, then been hit with a fast break. The one top half side in the last 6 months who really tried to play a possession-dominating game was MK Dons, and we relatively easily picked them off.

[Ryaldinhio]

Barring the last game, Bradford have a tricky run in, surprised at those thinking it's a race between us & Walsall for the last auto spot. Obviously others still in with a shout too, great end to the season.

Bradford have three sort of local derbies with teams still fighting for something. Notts C, Chesterfield, us. They have also got Smallwood banned for them 3 games and now Pattinson injured too apparantley so they have lost both of their playmaker for this run in.

I don't see them getting 9 points.

Walsall have won 2 games in 17 now some on here saying they expect them to win 3 from 4?

We are hard to beat, others aren't. We are thread bare but I think we will get there.

[dickos1]

BST, your point is well made, and backed up, albeit slightly less dramatically if we take the whole seasons' results and look at the current 11 other top half clubs and the 12 bottom clubs as they now stand in the table. A team's position when we play them might be influenced by games in hand, current form, injuries and suspensions of key players etc, so there is a bit more consistency looking over the whole season with the current table where for the first time in months everyone has played the same number of games..

In that case against the other 11 top half teams our record has been W4, D9, L6, equivalent to 51 points in a season

Against the bottom 12 teams it is W16, D3, L4 for 102 points in a season

Yes we have been flat track bullies against lower teams, but our results against top half teams have been significantly better than 29 points a season.

Also, less analytically, I feel we have been very unfortunate in some matches (e.g. Crewe away, Colchester away), so maybe we will have more of lady luck's influence in the last 4 matches - we are going to need it.        

DU.

I absolutely agree that over the season it's not been as stark as over the last half season. But my argument is that once the season had settled down, I think we've been sussed out by the better sides. I think most realised that we had a system that could be devastating when breaking quickly. The Bradford match was the perfect example - they played very high up the pitch, had a huge amount of possession, but rarely troubled us. We played a solid, disciplined defence them broke with pace, quick passing and sharp movement. Time and again we got in behind their defence and we could easily have put 5 past them.

I suspect that was a wake up call to the division, because since then, no good team has played a very high press against us. Time and again, we've been given lots of possession in our own half and have done next to nothing with it against a well-disciplined defence, then been hit with a fast break. The one top half side in the last 6 months who really tried to play a possession-dominating game was MK Dons, and we relatively easily picked them off.

Notts county?

[knockers]

I’d say that people are more disappointed in the football that we’re playing.
Pretty much each game is as boring as the last.

It really has been a hard watch this year and most of the other teams in the division are just as boring.

[Reg of the Rovers]

I’d say that people are more disappointed in the football that we’re playing.
Pretty much each game is as boring as the last.

It really has been a hard watch this year and most of the other teams in the division are just as boring.

I agree Knockers, league position aside, it's felt a pretty dire footballing season. Benefit of the doubt, I think a lot of that has to do with the level of shithousery in the league - dire teams wasting time, ugly hoofball and rough-stuff tactics, and 99% of referees having the vision of Stevie Wonder and morals of Richard Nixon, but we don't half seem to making hard work of it.

Still, squeak our way in to the top three and I'll a very very happy chap!

[BillyStubbsTears]

BST, your point is well made, and backed up, albeit slightly less dramatically if we take the whole seasons' results and look at the current 11 other top half clubs and the 12 bottom clubs as they now stand in the table. A team's position when we play them might be influenced by games in hand, current form, injuries and suspensions of key players etc, so there is a bit more consistency looking over the whole season with the current table where for the first time in months everyone has played the same number of games..

In that case against the other 11 top half teams our record has been W4, D9, L6, equivalent to 51 points in a season

Against the bottom 12 teams it is W16, D3, L4 for 102 points in a season

Yes we have been flat track bullies against lower teams, but our results against top half teams have been significantly better than 29 points a season.

Also, less analytically, I feel we have been very unfortunate in some matches (e.g. Crewe away, Colchester away), so maybe we will have more of lady luck's influence in the last 4 matches - we are going to need it.        

DU.

I absolutely agree that over the season it's not been as stark as over the last half season. But my argument is that once the season had settled down, I think we've been sussed out by the better sides. I think most realised that we had a system that could be devastating when breaking quickly. The Bradford match was the perfect example - they played very high up the pitch, had a huge amount of possession, but rarely troubled us. We played a solid, disciplined defence them broke with pace, quick passing and sharp movement. Time and again we got in behind their defence and we could easily have put 5 past them.

I suspect that was a wake up call to the division, because since then, no good team has played a very high press against us. Time and again, we've been given lots of possession in our own half and have done next to nothing with it against a well-disciplined defence, then been hit with a fast break. The one top half side in the last 6 months who really tried to play a possession-dominating game was MK Dons, and we relatively easily picked them off.

Notts county?

Yes. Agreed. And that was one of our best performances of the season. We came back very strongly against a side that threatened to overwhelm us early on.

Now name me ANY match this season against a top side who have sat deep against us, where we have looked that good.

[donnievic]

Can’t believe wot I’m reading on here anyone would think we are Carlisle or Morecombe,1 point of autos with 4 games left knowing it’s still in our own hands.
 Yes we haven’t been great but that’s the way it’s been all season,can’t say we are on a poor run either really we are picking up points just maybe few too many draws but lately been playing teams that have also been on a decent run themselves baring Walsall where you could say that result could bite us although didn’t think they were poor against us on the night but we should of pherhaps hold on for the win,remaining games could all be open games apart from Bradford which could  suit us as Tranmere who have picked up lately still need a win,Colchester could come and sit in but also need to win.bradford I think would be happy with a point and got their man player Smallwood missing and a poor away record and looks like we just need to keep their long throws to a minimal,boots could need to win to have chance of going up or even stay in play offs depending on results leading up to the final game.
 So in true rovers fashion still all to play for

[Ryaldinhio]

Barring the last game, Bradford have a tricky run in, surprised at those thinking it's a race between us & Walsall for the last auto spot. Obviously others still in with a shout too, great end to the season.

Bradford have three sort of local derbies with teams still fighting for something. Notts C, Chesterfield, us. They have also got Smallwood banned for them 3 games and now Pattinson injured too apparantley so they have lost both of their playmaker for this run in.

I don't see them getting 9 points.

Walsall have won 2 games in 17 now some on here saying they expect them to win 3 from 4?

We are hard to beat, others aren't. We are thread bare but I think we will get there.

Just been reading that Graeme Alexander has a 2game ban aswell from the touchline and there is supposedly a sickness bug going through the squad that has 'affected several players'

[Reg of the Rovers]

Barring the last game, Bradford have a tricky run in, surprised at those thinking it's a race between us & Walsall for the last auto spot. Obviously others still in with a shout too, great end to the season.

Bradford have three sort of local derbies with teams still fighting for something. Notts C, Chesterfield, us. They have also got Smallwood banned for them 3 games and now Pattinson injured too apparantley so they have lost both of their playmaker for this run in.

I don't see them getting 9 points.

Walsall have won 2 games in 17 now some on here saying they expect them to win 3 from 4?

We are hard to beat, others aren't. We are thread bare but I think we will get there.

Just been reading that Graeme Alexander has a 2game ban aswell from the touchline and there is supposedly a sickness bug going through the squad that has 'affected several players'

Excellent, they received my complimentary lasagne.

[drfchound]

BST, your point is well made, and backed up, albeit slightly less dramatically if we take the whole seasons' results and look at the current 11 other top half clubs and the 12 bottom clubs as they now stand in the table. A team's position when we play them might be influenced by games in hand, current form, injuries and suspensions of key players etc, so there is a bit more consistency looking over the whole season with the current table where for the first time in months everyone has played the same number of games..

In that case against the other 11 top half teams our record has been W4, D9, L6, equivalent to 51 points in a season

Against the bottom 12 teams it is W16, D3, L4 for 102 points in a season

Yes we have been flat track bullies against lower teams, but our results against top half teams have been significantly better than 29 points a season.

Also, less analytically, I feel we have been very unfortunate in some matches (e.g. Crewe away, Colchester away), so maybe we will have more of lady luck's influence in the last 4 matches - we are going to need it.     

Good figures from someone at last Dutch.
I get where bst is coming from but he has moved the goalposts with his figures a couple of times, probably to try to make his numbers add up to what he wants them to.
I agree also that we need some luck of the good type, they say thing even out over a league season so perhaps a couple of penalties will be awarded to us and maybe shots will go in off the post instead of coming back into play off the post.

[Lesonthewest]

6 game form table and 10 game form has us higher than all our rivals other than port vale

So nobody around is flying, we’re in a good position.

Imagine in August being told we would be joint 3rd and only 4 points off the top with 4 games to go
You’d snap their hands off

We’re not joint third, we are fourth

I suppose that’s a typical doncaster rovers fan way of looking at it,
We’re actually both

Either way I know for a fact all you lot moaning would’ve been the ones snapping my hand off if if offered what we are now with 4 games to go

If today was the last day of the season we are 4th.  That's all there is to it. You are away with the fairies. Facts are facts.

Dear me
I’ve had to explain 3 times now, I’m not talking about at the end of the season, talking about now

And we are still fourth now, look at the table its there in black and white

Yep and on the same points as 3rd place with 4 games to go!
Jesus you lot are hard work

The table shows we have the same number of points as 3rd place, but have an inferior goal difference so we're 4th. I tend to believe what the table says, Doncaster Rovers 4th.

[drfchound]

Just a point that should be made here.
When we were third but several teams had games in hand, there were plenty of posters on here saying “we aren’t really third, if so and so win their games in hand they will go above us”.

[Lesonthewest]

6 game form table and 10 game form has us higher than all our rivals other than port vale

So nobody around is flying, we’re in a good position.

Imagine in August being told we would be joint 3rd and only 4 points off the top with 4 games to go
You’d snap their hands off

We’re not joint third, we are fourth

I suppose that’s a typical doncaster rovers fan way of looking at it,
We’re actually both

Either way I know for a fact all you lot moaning would’ve been the ones snapping my hand off if if offered what we are now with 4 games to go

If today was the last day of the season we are 4th.  That's all there is to it. You are away with the fairies. Facts are facts.

Dear me
I’ve had to explain 3 times now, I’m not talking about at the end of the season, talking about now

And we are still fourth now, look at the table its there in black and white

Yep and on the same points as 3rd place with 4 games to go!
Jesus you lot are hard work

The table shows we have the same number of points as 3rd place, but have an inferior goal difference so were 4th. I tend to believe what the table says, Doncaster Rovers 4th.

Exactly if 3 were in better form than us it would be a worry

You’re not making any sense. You’re saying that we will/should finish in the top 3 because our form is miles better than 2 of the clubs above us.

And you’re also saying that we’re fighting for the title. Despite the fact that top of the league are 4 points ahead of us…and in miles better form than us.

Surely both things can’t be true?

Nope, again I’m not saying that at all

Everyone is writing us off because we’re playing shite, form is terrible etc etc etc
I’m pointing out our form is better than our rivals

And people are saying we should be in a title race, 4 points off the title with 4 games to go is a title race.

Exactly if 3 were in better form than us it would be a worry

You’re not making any sense. You’re saying that we will/should finish in the top 3 because our form is miles better than 2 of the clubs above us.

And you’re also saying that we’re fighting for the title. Despite the fact that top of the league are 4 points ahead of us…and in miles better form than us.

Surely both things can’t be true?

Nope, again I’m not saying that at all

Everyone is writing us off because we’re playing shite, form is terrible etc etc etc
I’m pointing out our form is better than our rivals

And people are saying we should be in a title race, 4 points off the title with 4 games to go is a title race.

Everyone? Who's everyone? I don't think I've read many posters 'writing us off'.

[Dutch Uncle]

BST, your point is well made, and backed up, albeit slightly less dramatically if we take the whole seasons' results and look at the current 11 other top half clubs and the 12 bottom clubs as they now stand in the table. A team's position when we play them might be influenced by games in hand, current form, injuries and suspensions of key players etc, so there is a bit more consistency looking over the whole season with the current table where for the first time in months everyone has played the same number of games..

In that case against the other 11 top half teams our record has been W4, D9, L6, equivalent to 51 points in a season

Against the bottom 12 teams it is W16, D3, L4 for 102 points in a season

Yes we have been flat track bullies against lower teams, but our results against top half teams have been significantly better than 29 points a season.

Also, less analytically, I feel we have been very unfortunate in some matches (e.g. Crewe away, Colchester away), so maybe we will have more of lady luck's influence in the last 4 matches - we are going to need it.     

Good figures from someone at last Dutch.
I get where bst is coming from but he has moved the goalposts with his figures a couple of times, probably to try to make his numbers add up to what he wants them to.
I agree also that we need some luck of the good type, they say thing even out over a league season so perhaps a couple of penalties will be awarded to us and maybe shots will go in off the post instead of coming back into play off the post.

Tbf Hound, BST was making the good point that we have done worse against top teams in the second half of the season, suggesting they have worked out how best to play against us. I just looked at the season as a whole.