High Praise for Doncaster Rovers

[RoverinLincs]

https://www.facebook.com/reel/1193378518706223/?

He’s nailed it

[drfchound]

He has indeed nailed it.
Grant has brought the club back to life after the removal of David Blunt and special praise should go to Terry.
I loved the moment that he appeared out of the tunnel at Notts County with the L2 winners trophy.

[NickDRFC]

A good listen and agree with most of it but I’ve heard a couple of times recently from outside observers saying we’re sustainable. We’re not. Not saying we can’t or won’t get there but last season Bramall pumped in over £3m and this season will have put in at least the same, if not more (I don’t know this for a fact but I’d be shocked if he hasn’t). He’s been happy to do that to get us back up the league (hopefully leagues!) and I’m really grateful for that, but as it stands we’re still heavily reliant on the generosity of our owner.

Feel like I need a tin hat to say this bit as well - I’ve no doubt I’m going to get pelters - but whilst Bramall deserves the utmost praise for getting us back to League One I’m always surprised at how he escapes culpability for what happened under Blunt. He owned the club and had ultimate control of how much money was put in, it’s not as though he was a white knight who came in and bought the club in that situation. Although I’ve no doubt that Blunt was the driving force in what was happening, Terry was still on the board and would have been watching it (and accepting it) happen.

[GazLaz]

“Not spending above their means” is an interesting one.

How someone can speak like that about a business losing millions annually sums football up. It’s obviously not just us, and we do more right than most, but we’re our losses not ~50% of turnover? It’s like Brighton, for example, losing £90m year on year.

Obviously we are not in debt and Terry is happy to fund the shortfall, which is great, but if that’s Rob Statons idea of a model business, he’s more clueless than I previously thought.

Were we not a better example of a model business when Blunt had us spending what we could afford without making a loss? That doesn’t bring good results though does it.

[Chris Black come back]

The measure of footballing success isn't turning a profit. The measure is being successful. If you can marry both then great, but financial success is an investor game. People go there each Saturday to watch a side entertain and ideally win. That is the measure of footballing success. Even if sustainability is a desired outcome also.

[GazLaz]

The measure of footballing success isn't turning a profit. The measure is being successful. If you can marry both then great, but financial success is an investor game. People go there each Saturday to watch a side entertain and ideally win. That is the measure of footballing success. Even if sustainability is a desired outcome also.

Absolutely, but then our success has come through obtaining a competent manager and spending more money. Exactly the same way we have got promoted out of this league, pretty quickly, the last twice (now three times) we have been in it. L2 is no real measure of success for us is it? Not in recent history anyway.

[NickDRFC]

The measure of footballing success isn't turning a profit. The measure is being successful. If you can marry both then great, but financial success is an investor game. People go there each Saturday to watch a side entertain and ideally win. That is the measure of footballing success. Even if sustainability is a desired outcome also.

I don’t disagree but that’s not the point being made here. Rob Staton here is talking about us being an example to follow, living within our means and being sustainable. Which is fiction.

[Chris Black come back]

Looking at Rovers in isolation, we don't have a model beyond generating more commercial revenue to try and subside the huge losses Terry is incurring. We realise very limited value on player development and disposals. We have done well over the last 20 years because Ryan and then Watson and Bramall have put in huge sums to outspend rivals, then over perform. We don't have a model and we need one.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

The measure of footballing success isn't turning a profit. The measure is being successful. If you can marry both then great, but financial success is an investor game. People go there each Saturday to watch a side entertain and ideally win. That is the measure of footballing success. Even if sustainability is a desired outcome also.

I don’t disagree but that’s not the point being made here. Rob Staton here is talking about us being an example to follow, living within our means and being sustainable. Which is fiction.

There's no fiction about it. TB has stated he is wealthy enough to sustain the finances he is putting in. We are not reliant on external finance. Huge loans with repayments we can't afford from the matchday revenue, from the EFL and other Club Doncaster income. 

Nobody's saying we're self sufficient.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

I think we learnt hugely under the last chairman that football cannot possible break even and you undoubtedly need a backer to be successful. No backer equals no success really.

[Barmby Rover]

The fact that football clubs are not sustainable is not to be argued with, which is why somebody with a REAL interest in Doncaster and a lot of money needs to be recruited onto the board. TB is getting older, his family have no interest in football or Donny and what happens when he can't do it anymore? I know he has said that he doesn't want a partner, but some sort of succession needs to be in place for the future.

[ForsolongaRover]

The measure of footballing success isn't turning a profit. The measure is being successful. If you can marry both then great, but financial success is an investor game. People go there each Saturday to watch a side entertain and ideally win. That is the measure of footballing success. Even if sustainability is a desired outcome also.

I don’t disagree but that’s not the point being made here. Rob Staton here is talking about us being an example to follow, living within our means and being sustainable. Which is fiction.

There's no fiction about it. TB has stated he is wealthy enough to sustain the finances he is putting in. We are not reliant on external finance. Huge loans with repayments we can't afford from the matchday revenue, from the EFL and other Club Doncaster income. 

Nobody's saying we're self sufficient..

I agree. Sustainability in football is having money to keep you going, however that is achieved. Whatever resources are available, expenditure needs to be tailored to income. The key is limiting expenditure to income and not relying on borrowing. Even clubs supported by  Middle East money can only survive so long as their owners are prepared to cover their losses. I would suggest that sustainability must always be so qualified even if you are backed by the richest entity in the World.

[BobG]

Question: if football clubs lose money, lots of it, almost by definition, why do so many, many plutocrats, sheikhs and Yanks want to throw their money away?

I know sheikhs and their ilk use it for greenwashing, and plutocrats to buy citizenship, but why do so many Yanks want to throw away their money? That is NOT what Americans are about is it?

I have a suggestion, (of course), but it runs entirely counter to the thrust of the consensus on this thread.  I'm wondering if there are other possible explanations.

BobG

[Smyth]

Why would billionaires be interested in the world's most viewed sports league? A real head scratcher that one. Certainly nothing to do with "greenwashing", tip Bob, don't use long words you don't understand.

[BobG]

Your inerudition coruscates like the heliograph of a pharos. You proffer neither sense nor wit, neither insight nor enlightenment. All your epicene acumen offers is vapid obloquy.

How many books and published articles have you authored?

What a pathetic little arsehole you are Smyth.

BobG

[Smyth]

Bob's been eating crab apples this morning.
Explain what you mean by "greenwashing", which owners are doing this and how. Then you can get onto explanation of who is gaining citizenship before your undoubted brilliant unmentioned theory, sorry, suggestion is revealed.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

The point is, any investor of the like we've seen coming into the game, whether they be American, Asian, Arab, are all looking for the potential for rapid growth. Either untapped potential or a sleeping fan base, with all the commercial benefits of huge shirt sales,, hospitality etc.

The stark reality is we don't have that historical or demographic potential so we're going to be further down the list for the venture capitalists, where growth would be limited to more modest returns over a longer period.

[Avsuptem]

Neither Salford nor Wrexham carry a whiff of exotic appeal and yet have attracted mega monied investors, so why not Doncaster the jewel of south Yorksihre ? I strongly suspect TB has a plan and has invested in the club for good reason. We are a more attractive proposition as  a league 1 or Championship club and the metropolitan borough of Doncaster has a big population. We used to get mega gates in the old days and could do again.

[Chris Black come back]

We will be at a higher level next season but I doubt very much our subsidy from Terry will reduce next season. To stand still any new owner is going to have to find that £3m annually as a minimum. That’s not so attractive.

[Nudga]

Maybe it's about a successful sporting portfolio?

[DonnyBazR0ver]

Neither Salford nor Wrexham carry a whiff of exotic appeal and yet have attracted mega monied investors, so why not Doncaster the jewel of south Yorksihre ? I strongly suspect TB has a plan and has invested in the club for good reason. We are a more attractive proposition as  a league 1 or Championship club and the metropolitan borough of Doncaster has a big population. We used to get mega gates in the old days and could do again.

Wrexham had some history and a sleeping fan base. The Hollywood duo have exploited that potential and took it to a level few thought possible when you add on the commercial revenues from abroad. 52% of income from abroad.

The potential for rapid growth isn't as easy to see given our history and geographical location.

Salford haven't got the history or fanbase either, so they'll have to go some to milk Beckham for all he's worth plus I heard Neville say it was a four year investment. What happens after 4 years??

[Chris Black come back]

Salford are in arguably the biggest football city in the planet. There is definitely room for a third club there.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

Salford are in arguably the biggest football city in the planet. There is definitely room for a third club there.

That's true so they'll have to increase capacity fairly quickly . Sadly, Carlisle's nee American ownership have presided over successive relegations since their takeover. Maybe they had a more modest approach that just hasn't worked so far.

[Nudga]

Salford are in arguably the biggest football city in the planet. There is definitely room for a third club there.

Probably more synagogues than there are football pitches.

Salford will not attract any more than 5k fans IMO. 
I think the class of 92 expected man utd fans to rock up if they were away from home or couldn't get tickets.
This hasn't happened and won't happen. 

Most haven't got a clue about lower league football around there, just armchair utd and city supporters.