McGrath

[Alan Southstand]

GazLaz - isn’t there just a tiny bit of you that’s chuffed with this?

£500k is an insult and will end up being when he continues his development with us!

[StocksArmy]

So… Wood retires, Anderson and Olowu move on and some are saying get rid of our best asset for £500k given the potential he has in today’s market? Even if Jay was still raw with a mixture of good and poor performances last season why on earth would you move him on and lose all 4 of your main centre halves going into a higher league? It’s the same people who will be complaining when we ship goals off the back of it. Personally I expect the back 4 to take a while to gel but I for one will be more comfortable with a fit Jay McGrath in there. I pay my season ticket fee to see the club being run like this. Well done to all involved. You can’t please everybody.

[Alan Southstand]

Agreed. People have got very short memories! Let’s get Danny Schofield back and re-instate Blunt!!

[Lesonthewest]

Am I missing something here. Here we are a club our size keeping hold of a player we would have sold for way less of the £500k offered in the past. A player from his home City, loves the club, loves playing under the staff here, has committed himself to the club. The manager thinks highly of him, the fans love him, & the management haven't chosen to cash in on half a million for a 22 year old who is improving & developing, & will be worth 3 times that amount in 2/3 years in my opinion. Personally I think it's brilliant news, & a huge well done to the club.

[DonnyRover]

As rovers fans surely we should never want to ‘cash in’ on a player especially one so young with years ahead when the money never ever gets reinvested?

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

We're a club who loses what 3-4 million a year. We sell him for 500k what do we get with that money? A smaller loss maybe?

[keith79]

A club on the rise. Long may it continue.

[Drover]

Not often we get six figures for a player, let alone highish six figures.

We may sell him for more down the line, he has improved at a rapid rate, but we are odds on not to.

We really need to start turning players over for a profit. We are obsessed with wanting players to stay here forever.

Think there’s plenty of chance he’s sat on our bench in 6months, behind others, and £500k will look loads of money.

It’s all about value isn’t it, he can’t add 500k of value on the pitch in the 3 years of his contract. Is he likely to go for more in the future, IMO odds on no. You then have to start thinking about these offers.

Olowu was allowed to run his contract down because he was deemed not good enough to offer one to. That’s a decision that’s probably cost us hundreds of thousands. If JM proves to not actually be a 500k player, this could be another costly one in hindsight.
[/quote]

But he was offered in Grants words ,what he thinks was a very very good contract offer and refused it,for all we know,that was because he had already agreed to sign for stockport long before we knew if we and he if he stayed would be playing in league two or league one,do you know for fact he is earning more at Stockport than the contract we offered him,I'm not so sure as many believe it is bound to be,also rather than costing us hundreds of thousands,it may actually save us hundreds of thousands Owolu not staying,especially if we end up with a better players in our defence,its all guess work,like some thinking Jay wasn't up to it when we signed him,got that wrong.Would have been nice to keep Owolu, but not too disappointed,looking forward to us giving him a torrid time when we play the Hatters this season.

[ForsolongaRover]

Not often we get six figures for a player, let alone highish six figures.

We may sell him for more down the line, he has improved at a rapid rate, but we are odds on not to.

We really need to start turning players over for a profit. We are obsessed with wanting players to stay here forever.

What do you genuinely think 0.5mil does for the club Vs keeping a very good long tern prospect?

Think there’s plenty of chance he’s sat on our bench in 6months, behind others, and £500k will look loads of money.

It’s all about value isn’t it, he can’t add 500k of value on the pitch in the 3 years of his contract. Is he likely to go for more in the future, IMO odds on no. You then have to start thinking about these offers.

Olowu was allowed to run his contract down because he was deemed not good enough to offer one to. That’s a decision that’s probably cost us hundreds of thousands. If JM proves to not actually be a 500k player, this could be another costly one in hindsight.

You quote the “odds” so is there a statistical basis for saying this? Surely a player who shows promise in the eyes of those whose job it is to make such judgments has at least an even chance of adding more value over 3 years. Is this not a reasonable extrapolation or statistically unlikely?

[drfchound]

Not often we get six figures for a player, let alone highish six figures.

We may sell him for more down the line, he has improved at a rapid rate, but we are odds on not to.

We really need to start turning players over for a profit. We are obsessed with wanting players to stay here forever.

Think there’s plenty of chance he’s sat on our bench in 6months, behind others, and £500k will look loads of money.

It’s all about value isn’t it, he can’t add 500k of value on the pitch in the 3 years of his contract. Is he likely to go for more in the future, IMO odds on no. You then have to start thinking about these offers.

Olowu was allowed to run his contract down because he was deemed not good enough to offer one to. That’s a decision that’s probably cost us hundreds of thousands. If JM proves to not actually be a 500k player, this could be another costly one in hindsight.

But he was offered in Grants words ,what he thinks was a very very good contract offer and refused it,for all we know,that was because he had already agreed to sign for stockport long before we knew if we and he if he stayed would be playing in league two or league one,do you know for fact he is earning more at Stockport than the contract we offered him,I'm not so sure as many believe it is bound to be,also rather than costing us hundreds of thousands,it may actually save us hundreds of thousands Owolu not staying,especially if we end up with a better players in our defence,its all guess work,like some thinking Jay wasn't up to it when we signed him,got that wrong.Would have been nice to keep Owolu, but not too disappointed,looking forward to us giving him a torrid time when we play the Hatters this season.
[/quote]

 A lot if it’s in that post mate and lots of them will only be proven in the future with the benefit of hindsight.

[RobTheRover]

A few on here are missing the point.  It's not about the money.

It's about the personnel. Grant is building his team with the jigsaw pieces he wants. And he wants a Jay McGrath shaped piece. So that's what he is keeping hold of.

Whether financially in 2 or 3 years time that brings a big fee or not really isn't the point at all. At this moment in time Grant wants him here because he needs what he brings on the field.

[GazLaz]

Not often we get six figures for a player, let alone highish six figures.

We may sell him for more down the line, he has improved at a rapid rate, but we are odds on not to.

We really need to start turning players over for a profit. We are obsessed with wanting players to stay here forever.

Think there’s plenty of chance he’s sat on our bench in 6months, behind others, and £500k will look loads of money.

It’s all about value isn’t it, he can’t add 500k of value on the pitch in the 3 years of his contract. Is he likely to go for more in the future, IMO odds on no. You then have to start thinking about these offers.

Olowu was allowed to run his contract down because he was deemed not good enough to offer one to. That’s a decision that’s probably cost us hundreds of thousands. If JM proves to not actually be a 500k player, this could be another costly one in hindsight.

But he was offered in Grants words ,what he thinks was a very very good contract offer and refused it,for all we know,that was because he had already agreed to sign for stockport long before we knew if we and he if he stayed would be playing in league two or league one,do you know for fact he is earning more at Stockport than the contract we offered him,I'm not so sure as many believe it is bound to be,also rather than costing us hundreds of thousands,it may actually save us hundreds of thousands Owolu not staying,especially if we end up with a better players in our defence,its all guess work,like some thinking Jay wasn't up to it when we signed him,got that wrong.Would have been nice to keep Owolu, but not too disappointed,looking forward to us giving him a torrid time when we play the Hatters this season.

 A lot if it’s in that post mate and lots of them will only be proven in the future with the benefit of hindsight.
[/quote]

Olowu was offered a good contract but it was too late. Make no bones about it in the 23/24 season, when the contract should have been offered to protect the asset, Grant deemed Joe not good enough to warrant a contract, and he was wrong. That’s potentially cost the club money. He is now turning down an offer for a player, that in my opinion, isn’t as good as the one we let go for free. All feels a bit muddled to me.


We wear rejecting offers for players like a badge of honour. When really identifying, developing and selling players has to be the business model.


The next couple of years will show if rejecting the offer was a good or bad decision. In the same way time will indicate how big of an error Joe leaving for free was.

I hope JM ends up playing for England and we get absolute fortunes for him. As ever happy to be proved wrong.

[GazLaz]

A few on here are missing the point.  It's not about the money.

It's about the personnel. Grant is building his team with the jigsaw pieces he wants. And he wants a Jay McGrath shaped piece. So that's what he is keeping hold of.

Whether financially in 2 or 3 years time that brings a big fee or not really isn't the point at all. At this moment in time Grant wants him here because he needs what he brings on the field.

That can be replaced pretty easily Rob. He replaced Anderson, Wood and Olowu pretty quickly and easily didn’t he.


Jay was around the 25th percentile for centre half performances in L2 last season. That’s ok with him being young and having room for improvement. Think that would put him 55-60th percentile in L1.


Time will tell with this one.

[TonySoprano]

Im keeping an eye out for when gazlaz sells his house, he'll probably cave in and accept an offer equal to the 1980's valuation 

[GazLaz]

Im keeping an eye out for when gazlaz sells his house, he'll probably cave in and accept an offer equal to the 1980's valuation 

Sold one last month funnily enough! Wouldn’t swap the new one for Jay that’s for sure! The club would have to put a few quid in on top!

[steve@dcfd]

Not often we get six figures for a player, let alone highish six figures.

We may sell him for more down the line, he has improved at a rapid rate, but we are odds on not to.

We really need to start turning players over for a profit. We are obsessed with wanting players to stay here forever.

The player who is not a commodity wanted to stay at our club. He didn’t want to move having been told of the offer. He was not for sale according to GM even for £1.5m. Jay signed a new contract because he wanted to stay at Doncaster Rovers. So good for him and the club. This would not have happened 2/3 years ago.

[IDM]

Not often we get six figures for a player, let alone highish six figures.

We may sell him for more down the line, he has improved at a rapid rate, but we are odds on not to.

We really need to start turning players over for a profit. We are obsessed with wanting players to stay here forever.

Think there’s plenty of chance he’s sat on our bench in 6months, behind others, and £500k will look loads of money.

It’s all about value isn’t it, he can’t add 500k of value on the pitch in the 3 years of his contract. Is he likely to go for more in the future, IMO odds on no. You then have to start thinking about these offers.

Olowu was allowed to run his contract down because he was deemed not good enough to offer one to. That’s a decision that’s probably cost us hundreds of thousands. If JM proves to not actually be a 500k player, this could be another costly one in hindsight.

But he was offered in Grants words ,what he thinks was a very very good contract offer and refused it,for all we know,that was because he had already agreed to sign for stockport long before we knew if we and he if he stayed would be playing in league two or league one,do you know for fact he is earning more at Stockport than the contract we offered him,I'm not so sure as many believe it is bound to be,also rather than costing us hundreds of thousands,it may actually save us hundreds of thousands Owolu not staying,especially if we end up with a better players in our defence,its all guess work,like some thinking Jay wasn't up to it when we signed him,got that wrong.Would have been nice to keep Owolu, but not too disappointed,looking forward to us giving him a torrid time when we play the Hatters this season.

 A lot if it’s in that post mate and lots of them will only be proven in the future with the benefit of hindsight.

Olowu was offered a good contract but it was too late. Make no bones about it in the 23/24 season, when the contract should have been offered to protect the asset, Grant deemed Joe not good enough to warrant a contract, and he was wrong. That’s potentially cost the club money. He is now turning down an offer for a player, that in my opinion, isn’t as good as the one we let go for free. All feels a bit muddled to me.


We wear rejecting offers for players like a badge of honour. When really identifying, developing and selling players has to be the business model.


The next couple of years will show if rejecting the offer was a good or bad decision. In the same way time will indicate how big of an error Joe leaving for free was.

I hope JM ends up playing for England and we get absolute fortunes for him. As ever happy to be proved wrong.
[/quote]

Ok so in the model you suggest, how much time are we allowed to have to develop a player, and also get some return from his performances on the pitch.

How much is a promotion worth followed by sustaining a higher league position, or even a further promotion.?

How much is the entertainment value with more fans injecting more cash into the club if we’re playing decent football.?

Value isn’t just about what you can pocket by selling.

Even racehorse owners want to get a decent amount of wins before putting their assets out to stud.

[TheFunk]

Barnsley's business model was developing players and selling them on. All well and good until they run out and you've sold all your best players and left with dross. I'd rather be us than them right now.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

A few on here are missing the point.  It's not about the money.

It's about the personnel. Grant is building his team with the jigsaw pieces he wants. And he wants a Jay McGrath shaped piece. So that's what he is keeping hold of.

Whether financially in 2 or 3 years time that brings a big fee or not really isn't the point at all. At this moment in time Grant wants him here because he needs what he brings on the field.

Totally agree there Rob. There's no objective to trade for profit. It's not a be all and end all strategy with inherent risks which GazLaz rarely refers to. Look at Peterborough, who were hailed as a smaller club who traded for profit, and a model we should follow. They've struggled recently and one of their most valuable assets walked for free. You can't force players or agents to come to the negotiating table when you would like them to.

As we are unlikely to adopt that strategy anytime soon, the debate is pointless.

[GazLaz]

Not often we get six figures for a player, let alone highish six figures.

We may sell him for more down the line, he has improved at a rapid rate, but we are odds on not to.

We really need to start turning players over for a profit. We are obsessed with wanting players to stay here forever.

Think there’s plenty of chance he’s sat on our bench in 6months, behind others, and £500k will look loads of money.

It’s all about value isn’t it, he can’t add 500k of value on the pitch in the 3 years of his contract. Is he likely to go for more in the future, IMO odds on no. You then have to start thinking about these offers.

Olowu was allowed to run his contract down because he was deemed not good enough to offer one to. That’s a decision that’s probably cost us hundreds of thousands. If JM proves to not actually be a 500k player, this could be another costly one in hindsight.

But he was offered in Grants words ,what he thinks was a very very good contract offer and refused it,for all we know,that was because he had already agreed to sign for stockport long before we knew if we and he if he stayed would be playing in league two or league one,do you know for fact he is earning more at Stockport than the contract we offered him,I'm not so sure as many believe it is bound to be,also rather than costing us hundreds of thousands,it may actually save us hundreds of thousands Owolu not staying,especially if we end up with a better players in our defence,its all guess work,like some thinking Jay wasn't up to it when we signed him,got that wrong.Would have been nice to keep Owolu, but not too disappointed,looking forward to us giving him a torrid time when we play the Hatters this season.

 A lot if it’s in that post mate and lots of them will only be proven in the future with the benefit of hindsight.

Olowu was offered a good contract but it was too late. Make no bones about it in the 23/24 season, when the contract should have been offered to protect the asset, Grant deemed Joe not good enough to warrant a contract, and he was wrong. That’s potentially cost the club money. He is now turning down an offer for a player, that in my opinion, isn’t as good as the one we let go for free. All feels a bit muddled to me.


We wear rejecting offers for players like a badge of honour. When really identifying, developing and selling players has to be the business model.


The next couple of years will show if rejecting the offer was a good or bad decision. In the same way time will indicate how big of an error Joe leaving for free was.

I hope JM ends up playing for England and we get absolute fortunes for him. As ever happy to be proved wrong.

Ok so in the model you suggest, how much time are we allowed to have to develop a player, and also get some return from his performances on the pitch.

How much is a promotion worth followed by sustaining a higher league position, or even a further promotion.?

How much is the entertainment value with more fans injecting more cash into the club if we’re playing decent football.?

Value isn’t just about what you can pocket by selling.

Even racehorse owners want to get a decent amount of wins before putting their assets out to stud.
[/quote]

One player, at this level (especially a defender) can’t add 500k of value on the pitch in 3 years.

What position do you think we will finish this season? What position do you think we would finish if we sold Jay, signed another good young player to develop on his place? What if we used a proportion of the money to sign someone better? Yes that’s possible, believe it or not!

Like I said before. All interesting discussion points.

[Chris Black come back]

We have for many years been running a structural operating loss of around £3m or so, which is filled by Terry in order to maintain our status as a going concern.

This £3m annual loss has only just brought us back up to the third tier. It also includes all the material benefits of being in Club Doncaster and an unreal deal on the stadium that was secured several years ago. In short, there is no sign of the structural operating loss changing at any point.

This only changes if we dramatically increase income or dramatically decrease expenditure. We have tried the latter. It didn’t work. We can try and address the former by attempting to change our risible record of monetising talent, as one avenue.

We can only be reliant on Terry for so long and to recap, we have a structural operating loss that doesn’t change come rain, shine or anything in between, hence without Terry we have a massive hole to fill.

[ncRover]

A few on here are missing the point.  It's not about the money.

It's about the personnel. Grant is building his team with the jigsaw pieces he wants. And he wants a Jay McGrath shaped piece. So that's what he is keeping hold of.

Whether financially in 2 or 3 years time that brings a big fee or not really isn't the point at all. At this moment in time Grant wants him here because he needs what he brings on the field.

Totally agree there Rob. There's no objective to trade for profit. It's not a be all and end all strategy with inherent risks which GazLaz rarely refers to. Look at Peterborough, who were hailed as a smaller club who traded for profit, and a model we should follow. They've struggled recently and one of their most valuable assets walked for free. You can't force players or agents to come to the negotiating table when you would like them to.

As we are unlikely to adopt that strategy anytime soon, the debate is pointless.

Peterborough struggled because they took their eye off the here and now.

Imagine our fan base’s reaction if we’d generated £6m in player sales in one summer and then finished 18th! Behind Mansfield who pretty much only sign 30+ year old players.

Even now Posh are losing players to Stockport, when a few years ago the clubs were 3 divisions apart!

[Usher wide.]

Im keeping an eye out for when gazlaz sells his house, he'll probably cave in and accept an offer equal to the 1980's valuation 

Sold one last month funnily enough! Wouldn’t swap the new one for Jay that’s for sure! The club would have to put a few quid in on top!

Half a mill for a house is nothing to shout about these days unless you can sell it for 3 times that amount in 3 years time…..as you might for a young, talented centre back.

[Usher wide.]

Not often we get six figures for a player, let alone highish six figures.

We may sell him for more down the line, he has improved at a rapid rate, but we are odds on not to.

We really need to start turning players over for a profit. We are obsessed with wanting players to stay here forever.

Think there’s plenty of chance he’s sat on our bench in 6months, behind others, and £500k will look loads of money.

It’s all about value isn’t it, he can’t add 500k of value on the pitch in the 3 years of his contract. Is he likely to go for more in the future, IMO odds on no. You then have to start thinking about these offers.

Olowu was allowed to run his contract down because he was deemed not good enough to offer one to. That’s a decision that’s probably cost us hundreds of thousands. If JM proves to not actually be a 500k player, this could be another costly one in hindsight.

But he was offered in Grants words ,what he thinks was a very very good contract offer and refused it,for all we know,that was because he had already agreed to sign for stockport long before we knew if we and he if he stayed would be playing in league two or league one,do you know for fact he is earning more at Stockport than the contract we offered him,I'm not so sure as many believe it is bound to be,also rather than costing us hundreds of thousands,it may actually save us hundreds of thousands Owolu not staying,especially if we end up with a better players in our defence,its all guess work,like some thinking Jay wasn't up to it when we signed him,got that wrong.Would have been nice to keep Owolu, but not too disappointed,looking forward to us giving him a torrid time when we play the Hatters this season.

 A lot if it’s in that post mate and lots of them will only be proven in the future with the benefit of hindsight.

Olowu was offered a good contract but it was too late. Make no bones about it in the 23/24 season, when the contract should have been offered to protect the asset, Grant deemed Joe not good enough to warrant a contract, and he was wrong. That’s potentially cost the club money. He is now turning down an offer for a player, that in my opinion, isn’t as good as the one we let go for free. All feels a bit muddled to me.


We wear rejecting offers for players like a badge of honour. When really identifying, developing and selling players has to be the business model.


The next couple of years will show if rejecting the offer was a good or bad decision. In the same way time will indicate how big of an error Joe leaving for free was.

I hope JM ends up playing for England and we get absolute fortunes for him. As ever happy to be proved wrong.

Ok so in the model you suggest, how much time are we allowed to have to develop a player, and also get some return from his performances on the pitch.

How much is a promotion worth followed by sustaining a higher league position, or even a further promotion.?

How much is the entertainment value with more fans injecting more cash into the club if we’re playing decent football.?

Value isn’t just about what you can pocket by selling.

Even racehorse owners want to get a decent amount of wins before putting their assets out to stud.

One player, at this level (especially a defender) can’t add 500k of value on the pitch in 3 years.

What position do you think we will finish this season? What position do you think we would finish if we sold Jay, signed another good young player to develop on his place? What if we used a proportion of the money to sign someone better? Yes that’s possible, believe it or not!

Like I said before. All interesting discussion points.
[/quote]

This sounds like another “I could find better cheaper” goof.

[ravenrover]

Not often we get six figures for a player, let alone highish six figures.

We may sell him for more down the line, he has improved at a rapid rate, but we are odds on not to.

We really need to start turning players over for a profit. We are obsessed with wanting players to stay here forever.

What do you genuinely think 0.5mil does for the club Vs keeping a very good long tern prospect?

Think there’s plenty of chance he’s sat on our bench in 6months, behind others, and £500k will look loads of money.

It’s all about value isn’t it, he can’t add 500k of value on the pitch in the 3 years of his contract. Is he likely to go for more in the future, IMO odds on no. You then have to start thinking about these offers.

Olowu was allowed to run his contract down because he was deemed not good enough to offer one to. That’s a decision that’s probably cost us hundreds of thousands. If JM proves to not actually be a 500k player, this could be another costly one in hindsight.

Contract offers were made to Olowu, it is reported, but he turned them down

[jmt23]

I’m pleased and shocked at the same time.

Pleased because I think he can really grow with us, he is still very raw and needs to learn when to make the passes, but I think he will end up at championship level eventually.

Shocked as the reported fee is quite big for most clubs at this level. Grant has an eye for young talent he can grow, an example is the lad from palace we have just signed, so I can only assume Grant thinks Jay is among the best around for his age!

The fee could have potentially bought Street too, giving us the goal threat we need and are still short of in my view - I have little knowledge of the new lads, so maybe not.

[selby]

  Olowu had a great season last year when we  were not that good defensively and covered a lot of mistakes with his speed to cover especially down our left hand side when thay ran direct at us.
  I agree with Gaz and think  McGrath has to improve on his game at the level we are playing at this season.
  For instance he will be playing against players like Street with strength and pace a lot more regular than he did last season who will run at him.
  I really hope he does as a Rovers supporter but he has a lot to do against better players, it's a big step for the club that cannot be underestimated.  We got away with shipping goals the first half of the season and still being around the play off places, that is unlikely to happen this season and catching up will be more difficult.
   

[jmt23]

That weakness Selby was not totally about Jay, he was often covering for inadequacies at left back.

[TonySoprano]

If only we had the same ambition when we sold whiteman for peanuts and never replaced marquis.
Such a damaging time for the club under blunt

[IDM]

I for one don’t want us to be a “feeder” club, developing players for a couple of years then selling them for decent money once they’ve had half a good season.

I want the highs and lows of watching my team try to be a success on the pitch.  In the meantime if we do occasionally sell a player for a big fee, so be it, but I don’t want that as a business model: