McGrath

[EasyforDennis]

Hindsight is a wonderful science isn't it?.......yes, but, no, but.

[Chris Black come back]

That’s a business model that only exists when someone is willing to shove in £3m season in, season out. We have that now but it won’t be around forever.

[MachoMadness]

Not often we get six figures for a player, let alone highish six figures.

We may sell him for more down the line, he has improved at a rapid rate, but we are odds on not to.

We really need to start turning players over for a profit. We are obsessed with wanting players to stay here forever.

Think there’s plenty of chance he’s sat on our bench in 6months, behind others, and £500k will look loads of money.

It’s all about value isn’t it, he can’t add 500k of value on the pitch in the 3 years of his contract. Is he likely to go for more in the future, IMO odds on no. You then have to start thinking about these offers.

Olowu was allowed to run his contract down because he was deemed not good enough to offer one to. That’s a decision that’s probably cost us hundreds of thousands. If JM proves to not actually be a 500k player, this could be another costly one in hindsight.

But he was offered in Grants words ,what he thinks was a very very good contract offer and refused it,for all we know,that was because he had already agreed to sign for stockport long before we knew if we and he if he stayed would be playing in league two or league one,do you know for fact he is earning more at Stockport than the contract we offered him,I'm not so sure as many believe it is bound to be,also rather than costing us hundreds of thousands,it may actually save us hundreds of thousands Owolu not staying,especially if we end up with a better players in our defence,its all guess work,like some thinking Jay wasn't up to it when we signed him,got that wrong.Would have been nice to keep Owolu, but not too disappointed,looking forward to us giving him a torrid time when we play the Hatters this season.

 A lot if it’s in that post mate and lots of them will only be proven in the future with the benefit of hindsight.

Olowu was offered a good contract but it was too late. Make no bones about it in the 23/24 season, when the contract should have been offered to protect the asset, Grant deemed Joe not good enough to warrant a contract, and he was wrong. That’s potentially cost the club money. He is now turning down an offer for a player, that in my opinion, isn’t as good as the one we let go for free. All feels a bit muddled to me.


We wear rejecting offers for players like a badge of honour. When really identifying, developing and selling players has to be the business model.


The next couple of years will show if rejecting the offer was a good or bad decision. In the same way time will indicate how big of an error Joe leaving for free was.

I hope JM ends up playing for England and we get absolute fortunes for him. As ever happy to be proved wrong.
[/quote]

Some interesting discussion points here. It could be that Grant realises his mistake with Olowu and is trying to prevent the same thing from happening again with our next-most saleable asset.

GM has a decent record of identifying players who can add value but the issue is it's all dependent on one man rather than a process. Once GM leaves we are back to hoping the new manager has an eye for a player.

[NickDRFC]

I for one don’t want us to be a “feeder” club, developing players for a couple of years then selling them for decent money once they’ve had half a good season.

I want the highs and lows of watching my team try to be a success on the pitch.  In the meantime if we do occasionally sell a player for a big fee, so be it, but I don’t want that as a business model:

That’s really easy to say when someone else is pumping in millions of pounds a year to allow that to happen. Club Doncaster brings in great commercial revenue for a club at our level but even with that there’s a £3m deficit to plug. Developing and selling players is the only way we’re going to be able to support League One football in the long term unless another Bramall comes along. We saw very recently how bad things got when the money tap was turned off.

[IDM]

I’m not saying we shouldn’t sell some players, but I don’t think it should be our plan A.

[RobTheRover]

A few on here are missing the point.  It's not about the money.

It's about the personnel. Grant is building his team with the jigsaw pieces he wants. And he wants a Jay McGrath shaped piece. So that's what he is keeping hold of.

Whether financially in 2 or 3 years time that brings a big fee or not really isn't the point at all. At this moment in time Grant wants him here because he needs what he brings on the field.

Totally agree there Rob. There's no objective to trade for profit. It's not a be all and end all strategy with inherent risks which GazLaz rarely refers to. Look at Peterborough, who were hailed as a smaller club who traded for profit, and a model we should follow. They've struggled recently and one of their most valuable assets walked for free. You can't force players or agents to come to the negotiating table when you would like them to.

As we are unlikely to adopt that strategy anytime soon, the debate is pointless.

I think that's the point, Baz.  £500k or a project to get out of this league?  The club's focus is clearly the latter, and see Jay as a part of what we need to do that.

As Gaz says, we might not sell him for anything like that in future years, but if we get promoted in the next 3 years then that's a moot point. The objective will have been met.

[graingrover]

I see this as a watershed in club history .It is the first régime I have know club and player turn down a substantial transfer fee move ..Gregg , Graham Watson , Pete Kitchen , Matt Mills ..all left !

[NickDRFC]

I’m not saying we shouldn’t sell some players, but I don’t think it should be our plan A.

What do you think our plan A to plug that gap should be?

[IDM]

So you think we can develop and sell 3m worth of players every year.? 

[Usher wide.]

I’m not saying we shouldn’t sell some players, but I don’t think it should be our plan A.

What do you think our plan A to plug that gap should be?

Build a squad of players that will get the club into the Championship asap.

Which is exactly what the manager is doing.

With players like Jay McGrath, we have a real chance imo of finishing in the top six. Without his ilk, top ten at best season after season aster bloody season.

[NickDRFC]

I’m not saying we shouldn’t sell some players, but I don’t think it should be our plan A.

What do you think our plan A to plug that gap should be?

Build a squad of players that will get the club into the Championship asap.

Which is exactly what the manager is doing.

With players like Jay McGrath, we have a real chance imo of finishing in the top six. Without his ilk, top ten at best season after season aster bloody season.

FWIW I'm pretty ambivalent on this bid - I like McGrath, think he has more potential to develop further and I'm happy to see him stay but equally could have seen logic in him being sold. But in the wider context how damaging to a promotion quest in the next couple of years would it have been to us to have sold him? I also get that £500k might seem like a small amount compared to losing £3m a year but that's still 17%. You can bet that if match day tickets increased 17% in price then it wouldn't be considered a small amount!

The club is in really good shape at the moment in terms of a great owner, CEO, manager, squad harmony etc. The reason we're in such good shape, though, is because of the generosity of the owner. That generosity lapsed for a couple of years and we tumbled to the lower reaches of League Two. You never know when things might change again and for me our best shot at competing (at this level or above) is to recruit well, sell well and reinvest. Getting into the Championship will earn us a lot more but it will also cost a lot more to be able to compete so not sure that solves any of the financial challenges, either.

[steve@dcfd]

Quote from Selby
For instance he will be playing against players like Street with strength and pace a lot more regular than he did last season who will run at him.

But in the first pre season game for Lincoln game of two 45mins
Draper played up front first half
Collins played up front second half with Street playing right of a three behind.

But all our defenders should be playing against better forwards as we are in League 1

[Sprotyrover]

So you think we can develop and sell 3m worth of players every year.? 

Where’s Dario Grady these times?

[steve@dcfd]

I for one don’t want us to be a “feeder” club, developing players for a couple of years then selling them for decent money once they’ve had half a good season.

I want the highs and lows of watching my team try to be a success on the pitch.  In the meantime if we do occasionally sell a player for a big fee, so be it, but I don’t want that as a business model:

That’s really easy to say when someone else is pumping in millions of pounds a year to allow that to happen. Club Doncaster brings in great commercial revenue for a club at our level but even with that there’s a £3m deficit to plug. Developing and selling players is the only way we’re going to be able to support League One football in the long term unless another Bramall comes along. We saw very recently how bad things got when the money tap was turned off.

In Grants interview he discussed the bid with Mr Brammel and the CEO and it was agreed to go with the decision to turn it down and offer new contract. Therefore Terry made the decision with his money.

[Lesonthewest]

I see this as a watershed in club history .It is the first régime I have know club and player turn down a substantial transfer fee move ..Gregg , Graham Watson , Pete Kitchen , Matt Mills ..all left !

Thought exactly the same!

[Usher wide.]

I for one don’t want us to be a “feeder” club, developing players for a couple of years then selling them for decent money once they’ve had half a good season.

I want the highs and lows of watching my team try to be a success on the pitch.  In the meantime if we do occasionally sell a player for a big fee, so be it, but I don’t want that as a business model:

That’s really easy to say when someone else is pumping in millions of pounds a year to allow that to happen. Club Doncaster brings in great commercial revenue for a club at our level but even with that there’s a £3m deficit to plug. Developing and selling players is the only way we’re going to be able to support League One football in the long term unless another Bramall comes along. We saw very recently how bad things got when the money tap was turned off.

In Grants interview he discussed the bid with Mr Brammel and the CEO and it was agreed to go with the decision to turn it down and offer new contract. Therefore Terry made the decision with his money.

In that interview Grant said they all discussed the bid & Grant was told the final decision was his.

He said “To be honest it’s rare that a manager has ANY say in these things at most football clubs”. With a wry smile.

[GazLaz]

I for one don’t want us to be a “feeder” club, developing players for a couple of years then selling them for decent money once they’ve had half a good season.

I want the highs and lows of watching my team try to be a success on the pitch.  In the meantime if we do occasionally sell a player for a big fee, so be it, but I don’t want that as a business model:

That’s really easy to say when someone else is pumping in millions of pounds a year to allow that to happen. Club Doncaster brings in great commercial revenue for a club at our level but even with that there’s a £3m deficit to plug. Developing and selling players is the only way we’re going to be able to support League One football in the long term unless another Bramall comes along. We saw very recently how bad things got when the money tap was turned off.

In Grants interview he discussed the bid with Mr Brammel and the CEO and it was agreed to go with the decision to turn it down and offer new contract. Therefore Terry made the decision with his money.

In that interview Grant said they all discussed the bid & Grant was told the final decision was his.

He said “To be honest it’s rare that a manager has ANY say in these things at most football clubs”. With a wry smile.

Is it the rest of football that is wrong or us?

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

I for one don’t want us to be a “feeder” club, developing players for a couple of years then selling them for decent money once they’ve had half a good season.

I want the highs and lows of watching my team try to be a success on the pitch.  In the meantime if we do occasionally sell a player for a big fee, so be it, but I don’t want that as a business model:

That’s really easy to say when someone else is pumping in millions of pounds a year to allow that to happen. Club Doncaster brings in great commercial revenue for a club at our level but even with that there’s a £3m deficit to plug. Developing and selling players is the only way we’re going to be able to support League One football in the long term unless another Bramall comes along. We saw very recently how bad things got when the money tap was turned off.

In Grants interview he discussed the bid with Mr Brammel and the CEO and it was agreed to go with the decision to turn it down and offer new contract. Therefore Terry made the decision with his money.

In that interview Grant said they all discussed the bid & Grant was told the final decision was his.

He said “To be honest it’s rare that a manager has ANY say in these things at most football clubs”. With a wry smile.

Is it the rest of football that is wrong or us?

How far will we get being the same as everyone else? We can't outspend teams so we need a unique and hopefully better way of doing things.

[RoversInSpain]

So you think we can develop and sell 3m worth of players every year.?

Why not? …and the only way we do this is by developing players and NOT selling them off at the first average offer. Another good season for Molyneux, Bailey, Sterry, McGrath and what will they be worth? A lot more than now.
The club are building their assets, it’s the speculate to accumulate process, Peterborough have done it for years, Crewe did it. It’s the only way Rovers can function, attendances won’t be enough. It’s a bit pointless paying good money for a Championship manager, and Assistant, possibly one of the best medical guys in Rennie and not let them use the skills they’re paid for to develop players….. AND then sell them for top price.

[dknward2]

Grant was asked what he wanted to do and he said if he has done that in one season at league 2 imagine what a good season in league 1 would do

[DRFCSouth]

Good to see us protecting our assets, giving us strength in depth, and a sign of intent to progress.

[ncRover]

So you think we can develop and sell 3m worth of players every year.?

Why not? …and the only way we do this is by developing players and NOT selling them off at the first average offer. Another good season for Molyneux, Bailey, Sterry, McGrath and what will they be worth? A lot more than now.
The club are building their assets, it’s the speculate to accumulate process, Peterborough have done it for years, Crewe did it. It’s the only way Rovers can function, attendances won’t be enough. It’s a bit pointless paying good money for a Championship manager, and Assistant, possibly one of the best medical guys in Rennie and not let them use the skills they’re paid for to develop players….. AND then sell them for top price.

Bailey turns 27 this season
Molyneux turns 28
Sterry turns 30

[Ryaldinhio]

So you think we can develop and sell 3m worth of players every year.?

Why not? …and the only way we do this is by developing players and NOT selling them off at the first average offer. Another good season for Molyneux, Bailey, Sterry, McGrath and what will they be worth? A lot more than now.
The club are building their assets, it’s the speculate to accumulate process, Peterborough have done it for years, Crewe did it. It’s the only way Rovers can function, attendances won’t be enough. It’s a bit pointless paying good money for a Championship manager, and Assistant, possibly one of the best medical guys in Rennie and not let them use the skills they’re paid for to develop players….. AND then sell them for top price.

Bailey turns 27 this season
Molyneux turns 28
Sterry turns 30

This is totally individual opinion, but hear me out.

If we got offered £1m for any of Bailey Sterry or Moly I would accept.

I WOULD NOT accept £1m for McGrath.

That does not mean right now that McGrath is a better or more important player that these three. Currently he is below them, this is all IMO.

They are all VERY important players to us right now. But Jay is 22, left footed left CB. They are few and far between.

Owen, luke and Jamie's commercial value are curtailing so their value to us surpasses that of monetary terms.

Jay is on the upward curve and in a position that is a rare as a No9 that bags 20goals a year.

Tag this thread, in 1-2yrs this boy will be our record sale.

[Alan Southstand]

I can’t believe anyone questioning the Club’s decision on JM. I see it as an incredibly positive thing for the Club, the staff, the players and most of all the fans.

I agree about  the discussion that boils down to us trying to be a sustainable club and yes, there’s a need to sell players and make a profit which (hopefully) gets recycled into the club such that can keep grinding the wheel. But the fact of the matter is it comes down to timing and, in no small part, the ambitions of the club. Now, all the signs are there that we are becoming an upwardly mobile unit with a lot going for us right now. I’m sure there are things that can be improved, but my God, we are incomparable to the shit storm of just a few short seasons ago!

Just sit back and enjoy the ride. I know I’m going to do just that.

[IDM]

If we are going to sell our best players, let’s do that after 2-3 seasons of performing for the first team, not just development and then half a season tearing up the league.

[selby]

  Usher Wide, if we had carried on the last ten games and shipping goals like we did at Chesterfield and with McGrath et al  I don't think we  would have been in Division I
  We got lucky and had to play a player in that position who was immaculate to the end of the season playing to get another club by the wa, and would probably not been anywhere near the team apart for injury.
   And yes Stev@DRFC it is frightening isn't it, we will have to defend better quicker thinking and reacting forwards this season, everyone of our players are going to have to lift their game and be consistent, some will find it difficult.
  I doubt very much we will end this coming season without quite a few changes.  Every time we have gone up new better players have been required to bolster the team in certain positions. i

[graingrover]

Another factor is the statement by TB that he wishes to get the club to higher status  to make it easier to find the right type of succession when that time comes.

[RoversInSpain]

So you think we can develop and sell 3m worth of players every year.?

Why not? …and the only way we do this is by developing players and NOT selling them off at the first average offer. Another good season for Molyneux, Bailey, Sterry, McGrath and what will they be worth? A lot more than now.
The club are building their assets, it’s the speculate to accumulate process, Peterborough have done it for years, Crewe did it. It’s the only way Rovers can function, attendances won’t be enough. It’s a bit pointless paying good money for a Championship manager, and Assistant, possibly one of the best medical guys in Rennie and not let them use the skills they’re paid for to develop players….. AND then sell them for top price.

Bailey turns 27 this season
Molyneux turns 28
Sterry turns 30

Richie Wellens was, I think 29 when he left us for Leicester, so 27 to 30 doesn’t mean you cannot get a big move if you’re good enough. As we appear to be looking after contracts now then a big move can equate to big money.

[Barmby Rover]

The basic fact is that the club does not want to sell, what are you going to do about it? Boo the player who doesn't leave? Call for GM to be sacked? get over it and be pleased we have another good player.

[wilts rover]

You sell a player, voluntarily, once you have a plan to replace them. Clearly Grant didn't in this instance.

From memory didn't we turn down bids for both Sharp & Marquis - and then they ended up going for less a few months later?

It's a funny old game.