Attendance

[TheFunk]

I'm pretty sure rail seating doesn't increase capacity as it's still one person per seat or standing space.

[Nudga]

I'm pretty sure rail seating doesn't increase capacity as it's still one person per seat or standing space.

AI Overview


+7
The Many Benefits of Safe Standing | Stadium Seating | Stadia ...
Yes, rail seating can increase stadium capacity by allowing for more fans to stand in the space currently occupied by seats, as the seats can be folded upright to create a standing area with a handrail. The amount of increase varies depending on the specific regulations, the depth of the rows, and the allowed fan-to-seat ratio, but it can lead to significant capacity increases, sometimes up to 60-80% in converted areas. 

[silent majority]

The old adage, be careful what you wish for, is in play here for a number of reasons.

We, when we first introduced unreserved seating the South Stand, did so with the help of the Safety Advisory Group and it was with their assistance. Cutting back the number of supporters that could be admitted to the South Stand is the least price the club had to pay. What I mean by that is that the SAG could have been a lot harder on the club than they have been. Allowing the club to ignore the all seater rule is a major benefit to the atmosphere that the SS brings to the stadium. If you push for more people to be admitted then you run the risk of the SAG insisting that the club stick to the legislation. It wouldn’t be the first time!

Personally I think its imperative that you keep the SAG onside and not start requesting a relaxation of the rules. Going back to one spectator per seat would increase attendance in the SS but at the risk of losing everything that you currently have. Its a fact that people standing take up more space than those sat down, which is why you get overspill at the ends of rows, so careful stewarding is a requirement.

Rail seating, safe standing, is expensive and brings no benefits to a club like ours. The club would have to provide the away fans with the same accommodation as the home fans, so rail seating in the South would also mean rail seating in the north and no benefit to the club over the current arrangements. You can increase the attendance in the rail seating areas, but to do that you would have to include an intermediate step on top of the existing steps so that additional supporters could be included, but that hasn't been allowed for under current legislation.

Personally I wouldn’t be letting the Shadow Board anywhere near this, if you do intend to start talking to the SAG about what you would like to see changed in the SS then you need people who understand what the legislation entails and can understand the different arguments for and against. You definitely need to understand the subject matter inside out. When we (The FSF) discussed safe standing with the SGSA, and author of the Green Guide, we had to know as much as they did, we also had to have a major understanding of the different forms and technical requirements of the systems that operated around the World so that we could meet with them regularly and be held to a standard that meant you would be taken seriously.

I'm off topic a little here, but my initial message is the same, be careful what you wish for. Yes, some loosening of the regulations may be possible, but you need the SAG with you on this, not against. And at the end of the day they will be held responsible for anything that may occur. I always remember when we pushed for Safe Standing at Scunthorpe there was an incident where an away supporter had fallen from the seated area over the wall at the exit vomitory and suffered severe head injuries, that killed off that campaign at that stadium!

[silent majority]

I'm pretty sure rail seating doesn't increase capacity as it's still one person per seat or standing space.

AI Overview


+7
The Many Benefits of Safe Standing | Stadium Seating | Stadia ...
Yes, rail seating can increase stadium capacity by allowing for more fans to stand in the space currently occupied by seats, as the seats can be folded upright to create a standing area with a handrail. The amount of increase varies depending on the specific regulations, the depth of the rows, and the allowed fan-to-seat ratio, but it can lead to significant capacity increases, sometimes up to 60-80% in converted areas. 

And legislation in this country is still one supporter per rail seat.

I should have mentioned in my post above that standing in seated areas requires a rail to be inserted to stop those standing from falling forwards. This is in play at quite a few stadiums, it again does not have the ability to increase attendance.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

The old adage, be careful what you wish for, is in play here for a number of reasons.

We, when we first introduced unreserved seating the South Stand, did so with the help of the Safety Advisory Group and it was with their assistance. Cutting back the number of supporters that could be admitted to the South Stand is the least price the club had to pay. What I mean by that is that the SAG could have been a lot harder on the club than they have been. Allowing the club to ignore the all seater rule is a major benefit to the atmosphere that the SS brings to the stadium. If you push for more people to be admitted then you run the risk of the SAG insisting that the club stick to the legislation. It wouldn’t be the first time!

Personally I think its imperative that you keep the SAG onside and not start requesting a relaxation of the rules. Going back to one spectator per seat would increase attendance in the SS but at the risk of losing everything that you currently have. Its a fact that people standing take up more space than those sat down, which is why you get overspill at the ends of rows, so careful stewarding is a requirement.

Rail seating, safe standing, is expensive and brings no benefits to a club like ours. The club would have to provide the away fans with the same accommodation as the home fans, so rail seating in the South would also mean rail seating in the north and no benefit to the club over the current arrangements. You can increase the attendance in the rail seating areas, but to do that you would have to include an intermediate step on top of the existing steps so that additional supporters could be included, but that hasn't been allowed for under current legislation.

Personally I wouldn’t be letting the Shadow Board anywhere near this, if you do intend to start talking to the SAG about what you would like to see changed in the SS then you need people who understand what the legislation entails and can understand the different arguments for and against. You definitely need to understand the subject matter inside out. When we (The FSF) discussed safe standing with the SGSA, and author of the Green Guide, we had to know as much as they did, we also had to have a major understanding of the different forms and technical requirements of the systems that operated around the World so that we could meet with them regularly and be held to a standard that meant you would be taken seriously.

I'm off topic a little here, but my initial message is the same, be careful what you wish for. Yes, some loosening of the regulations may be possible, but you need the SAG with you on this, not against. And at the end of the day they will be held responsible for anything that may occur. I always remember when we pushed for Safe Standing at Scunthorpe there was an incident where an away supporter had fallen from the seated area over the wall at the exit vomitory and suffered severe head injuries, that killed off that campaign at that stadium!

Exactly S_M, keeping SAG onside is imperative. As said earlier, before we even think about anything, we need to establish some facts and figures.

1. Is the South stand being sold out, preventing fans attending altogether or are they finding seats elsewhere.
2. Establish on a game on game basis how many seats remain unoccupied v seats sold. I.e how many more than the agreed 10% or whatever it is, remain unaccounted for? If these are very small numbers then the only option is looking at the no shows. Some fans clearly do inform the club  if they are unable to attend which allows the club to release their seats, but how many on average aren't?  Again, if these are small numbers then we stock to the status quo.

[Padge_DRFC]

Big fuss over nothing 250-300 unsold seats in SS. 3000 seats elsewhere. Return to this when there's 12000 home fans coming every week. We can't even get anywhere near for Yorkshire derbies.