Rovers youngest goalscorer

[graingrover]

I often ask GPT chat plus and Deep Seek (  best Chinese AI ) the same questions...fascinating to compare the replies.

[ForsolongaRover]

If nowt else, hopefully we've all learned how much AI search bots and info sources still need to be taken with a pinch of salt and fact-checked.

Thanks to those replying to this thread.

This!

Last year, just as a test, I asked Chat GPT to predict what the result would be of a certain standard experiment that my company does every day. The response started off very impressively. It quoted several very important and appropriate references, set out some correct formulae and looked to be on the money. It wrote in a very authoritative style. Then it started going totally off the rails into what was frankly, made up batshittery. The final answer it presented was wrong by a factor of about 10,000%.

That experience was actually quite frightening. The idea that people might use AI as some sort of oracle or easy path to the Objective Truth should scare the shite out of all of us.

Totally concur.

I bought some music recording mixing and mastering software a long while back and I bought a fair bit of associated stuff and when I found time to load it all up I’d pretty much forgotten what it all was. So, I asked Chat GPT to give me a snapshot to help remind me, which to be fair, it did. But it also told me about the various advantages and qualities of all this kit. A couple of hours later when reading the various maker’s websites that most of this stuff had been quoted verbatim from the designer’s own marketing blurb. This is not good.

Like BST I decided to test it out by questioning it about my own sphere of work. Was XYZ a good thing? Was XYZ a bad thing? I received totally contradictory responses including several fundamental incorrect assertions.

I might continue to ask it for park & ride timetables but that’s all.

As a tool for evil-doing, some of the public will believe it to be infallible whether it is "genuine" (and faulty as above) or deliberately and falsely labelled "AI" and designed to invest credibility. It is the era of the fraudster.

[i_ateallthepies]

I have been using it for help with gardening and diy projects recently so nothing too critical and have found it to be both immensely helpful and in a few minor details just plain wrong.  Interestingly sometimes wrong apparently overlooking contextual information I have included in my question.  But, it can provide answers to questions that you could spend all day googling for and still fail.  Oh, and it is absolutely hopeless at identifying plants either from photo or narrative descriptions.  I gave it a photo of a plant with a flower much like helenium and it came back with Alchemilla Mollis.  Anybody who knows what that looks like will know it looks unlike anything else.

[ForsolongaRover]

I have been using it for help with gardening and diy projects recently so nothing too critical and have found it to be both immensely helpful and in a few minor details just plain wrong.  Interestingly sometimes wrong apparently overlooking contextual information I have included in my question.  But, it can provide answers to questions that you could spend all day googling for and still fail.  Oh, and it is absolutely hopeless at identifying plants either from photo or narrative descriptions.  I gave it a photo of a plant with a flower much like helenium and it came back with Alchemilla Mollis.  Anybody who knows what that looks like will know it looks unlike anything else.

Well, you probably know that there is the "Picture This" App but you have to pay for it and whilst is seems to be credible for trees at least, I am no expert.

[i_ateallthepies]

I have been using it for help with gardening and diy projects recently so nothing too critical and have found it to be both immensely helpful and in a few minor details just plain wrong.  Interestingly sometimes wrong apparently overlooking contextual information I have included in my question.  But, it can provide answers to questions that you could spend all day googling for and still fail.  Oh, and it is absolutely hopeless at identifying plants either from photo or narrative descriptions.  I gave it a photo of a plant with a flower much like helenium and it came back with Alchemilla Mollis.  Anybody who knows what that looks like will know it looks unlike anything else.

Well, you probably know that there is the "Picture This" App but you have to pay for it and whilst is seems to be credible for trees at least, I am no expert.

Thanks, didn't know about that one.

[Branton Rover]

From memory not AI, didn’t Dominico Tedaldi score coming off the bench at Rochdale in 1998? He was only 16 I think at the time.

[Bristol Red Rover]

I haven't looked at many of our early players in terms of age, but James Gresham could challenge Alick here.

His date of birth is given as 1875. He made his debut for Donny in 1890 and scored 7 in that season. He could have been 14!

These are others I spotted who played before WW1. And yes, don't think any are Football League goals, but such is our history.

Harry Thicket could have been 19.

Billy Linward could have been 17, 18 at the most.

Len Goodson probs 20, could have been 19.

Alonzo Drake possibly 18.

Frank Foxall possibly 19.

Jimmy Dyer possibly 18.

Post WW!:

Wilf Bot probably 20.

Dizzie Burton probably 20.

Clarrie Jordan was 18.

Bert Tindall 18 or 19.

Phil Robinson 19/20.

Ron Walker was 18.

Graham Watson was 17/18.

Alan Warboys was 17/18.

Steve Reed was 19.

Steve Uzelac could have been 18 - likely later.

Mike Elwiss was 17yrs 5 m and 14 days - scpring two on his debut.

Stan Brookes was just 19.

Peter Kitchen was 18, scoring in his debut.

[VivaRovers]

From memory not AI, didn’t Dominico Tedaldi score coming off the bench at Rochdale in 1998? He was only 16 I think at the time.

Dino Tedaldi... he did... although from what I can see he was born in 1980, so would've been at least 17.

[drfchound]

I haven't looked at many of our early players in terms of age, but James Gresham could challenge Alick here.

His date of birth is given as 1875. He made his debut for Donny in 1890 and scored 7 in that season. He could have been 14!

These are others I spotted who played before WW1. And yes, don't think any are Football League goals, but such is our history.

Harry Thicket could have been 19.

Billy Linward could have been 17, 18 at the most.

Len Goodson probs 20, could have been 19.

Alonzo Drake possibly 18.

Frank Foxall possibly 19.

Jimmy Dyer possibly 18.

Post WW!:

Wilf Bot probably 20.

Dizzie Burton probably 20.

Clarrie Jordan was 18.

Bert Tindall 18 or 19.

Phil Robinson 19/20.

Ron Walker was 18.

Graham Watson was 17/18.

Alan Warboys was 17/18.

Steve Reed was 19.

Steve Uzelac could have been 18 - likely later.

Mike Elwiss was 17yrs 5 m and 14 days - scpring two on his debut.

Stan Brookes was just 19.

Peter Kitchen was 18, scoring in his debut.

Plenty of research there then so well done.
However the thread title is Rovers youngest goal scorer and only one of your impressive list is potentially younger than Alick.

[Branton Rover]

I was at Rochdale in 1998 when Dominico Tedaldi scored after coming off the bench, think he was only 16 back then.

[ForsolongaRover]

I haven't looked at many of our early players in terms of age, but James Gresham could challenge Alick here.

His date of birth is given as 1875. He made his debut for Donny in 1890 and scored 7 in that season. He could have been 14!

These are others I spotted who played before WW1. And yes, don't think any are Football League goals, but such is our history.

Harry Thicket could have been 19.

Billy Linward could have been 17, 18 at the most.

Len Goodson probs 20, could have been 19.

Alonzo Drake possibly 18.

Frank Foxall possibly 19.

Jimmy Dyer possibly 18.

Post WW!:

Wilf Bot probably 20.

Dizzie Burton probably 20.

Clarrie Jordan was 18.

Bert Tindall 18 or 19.

Phil Robinson 19/20.

Ron Walker was 18.

Graham Watson was 17/18.

Alan Warboys was 17/18.

Steve Reed was 19.

Steve Uzelac could have been 18 - likely later.

Mike Elwiss was 17yrs 5 m and 14 days - scpring two on his debut.

Stan Brookes was just 19.

Peter Kitchen was 18, scoring in his debut.

Plenty of research there then so well done.
However the thread title is Rovers youngest goal scorer and only one of your impressive list is potentially younger than Alick.

Working through the list and using the Rovers publication "100 Doncaster Rovers Greats" data, so presumably authoritative, Bert Tindill signed when he was 19 and 8 months, but when he scored his first goal is not specified, but I don't expect it was long afterwards. (He always seemed a bit selfish to me because he would shoot when a pass to someone in a better position looked a preferable option.) I have already given  precise details about Graham Watson above. Dizzie Burton was 21 when he signed. Clarrie Jordan didn't sign till he was 24. Alan Warboys was 18 and 1 month when he scored his first goal. Steve Uzelac was 19 and 7 months. I included Mike Elwiss's data in my first post. Peter Kitchen was 18 and 9 months when he scored his first. Any that have been excluded are not included in the book so not considered "great"! or perhaps more likely that there were no earlier records and in the first 50 years the club was in and out of the football league.  I never saw Clarrie Jordan who scored 44 goals for the Rovers in 1946/47 making him very much the hero of the generations before me and I didn't come in until the Syd Bycroft/Bert Tindill/ Peter Doherty/Paul Todd etc era

[Chris Black come back]

From memory not AI, didn’t Dominico Tedaldi score coming off the bench at Rochdale in 1998? He was only 16 I think at the time.

Dino Tedaldi... he did... although from what I can see he was born in 1980, so would've been at least 17.

Late consolation goal when we were already 4-0 down. That was one of the later games that season when I think we’d already been relegated and the senior players had been released or not being played as we had to pay them if they played. It was side full of 18 year old kids.

[Belle_Vue]

On the other hand Billy is chases Copps for eldest

[Bristol Red Rover]

Working through the list and using the Rovers publication "100 Doncaster Rovers Greats" data, so presumably authoritative, Bert Tindill signed when he was 19 and 8 months, but when he scored his first goal is not specified, but I don't expect it was long afterwards. (He always seemed a bit selfish to me because he would shoot when a pass to someone in a better position looked a preferable option.) I have already given  precise details about Graham Watson above. Dizzie Burton was 21 when he signed. Clarrie Jordan didn't sign till he was 24. Alan Warboys was 18 and 1 month when he scored his first goal. Steve Uzelac was 19 and 7 months. I included Mike Elwiss's data in my first post. Peter Kitchen was 18 and 9 months when he scored his first. Any that have been excluded are not included in the book so not considered "great"! or perhaps more likely that there were no earlier records and in the first 50 years the club was in and out of the football league.  I never saw Clarrie Jordan who scored 44 goals for the Rovers in 1946/47 making him very much the hero of the generations before me and I didn't come in until the Syd Bycroft/Bert Tindill/ Peter Doherty/Paul Todd etc era

Apologies, I missed the Elwiss and Watson mentions you gave.

Yes re Dizzie Burton, my mistake. I did this without my Donny bible!

Clarrie Jordan first played for us in 1940 in the war leagues, born 20/6/22. League debut was when he was 24, so as far as official stats go then yes. For me, war years and first team non Football League games count. I'd guess he scored for us early in his career in the war games, but not got my hands on the book to check.

James Gresham is a firm challenger to Alick. DOB given is 1875, which means he will have been either 14 or 15 when scoring his first. A bit of a mystery untill his dob can be more accurately confirmed, although seems like a v impressive youngster even if what we currently have is a couple of years out. I might make that a project for my next round of Rovers reseach.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Gresham_(footballer)

[idler]

Working through the list and using the Rovers publication "100 Doncaster Rovers Greats" data, so presumably authoritative, Bert Tindill signed when he was 19 and 8 months, but when he scored his first goal is not specified, but I don't expect it was long afterwards. (He always seemed a bit selfish to me because he would shoot when a pass to someone in a better position looked a preferable option.) I have already given  precise details about Graham Watson above. Dizzie Burton was 21 when he signed. Clarrie Jordan didn't sign till he was 24. Alan Warboys was 18 and 1 month when he scored his first goal. Steve Uzelac was 19 and 7 months. I included Mike Elwiss's data in my first post. Peter Kitchen was 18 and 9 months when he scored his first. Any that have been excluded are not included in the book so not considered "great"! or perhaps more likely that there were no earlier records and in the first 50 years the club was in and out of the football league.  I never saw Clarrie Jordan who scored 44 goals for the Rovers in 1946/47 making him very much the hero of the generations before me and I didn't come in until the Syd Bycroft/Bert Tindill/ Peter Doherty/Paul Todd etc era

Apologies, I missed the Elwiss and Watson mentions you gave.

Yes re Dizzie Burton, my mistake. I did this without my Donny bible!

Clarrie Jordan first played for us in 1940 in the war leagues, born 20/6/22. League debut was when he was 24, so as far as official stats go then yes. For me, war years and first team non Football League games count. I'd guess he scored for us early in his career in the war games, but not got my hands on the book to check.

James Gresham is a firm challenger to Alick. DOB given is 1875, which means he will have been either 14 or 15 when scoring his first. A bit of a mystery untill his dob can be more accurately confirmed, although seems like a v impressive youngster even if what we currently have is a couple of years out. I might make that a project for my next round of Rovers reseach.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Gresham_(footballer)

I looked on the Free BMD site and the only James Gresham that came up between 1873 and 1876 was born in in 1875 the Jul/Aug/Sep quarter in West Derby which is a part of Liverpool.
Nothing to say he didn’t move to Doncaster though.

[Highland Rover]

 The 1891 census has James Gresham , aged 21 , lodging in Doncaster along with fellow Rover Tom Kisby but to confuse matters he put his place of birth as Lincoln ( as did Kisby ) !

[Bristol Red Rover]

Interesting, and thanks for both those records researches. It was said Gresham came from Liverpool. Though the census data fits - maybe the birth data is a different person? Could be that he lied about his age in the census?

[drfchound]

There doesn’t appear to ge any concrete evidence to confirm that Gresham was the youngest Rovers scorer then.

[BobG]

Or that he wasn’t too....

BobG

[roversdude]

Ask Wolfie or Selby et al they’ll probably remember him

[drfchound]

Or that he wasn’t too....

BobG

As I said Bob, no concrete evidence.

[BobG]

Yes Hound. I read that. The point I was making clear is that there seems to be no evidence either way. You only focused on a single way.

Cheer!

BobG

[drfchound]

No, I’m not, I agreeing with you.
Can I pay for the full five minute argument please.

[Herbert Anchovy]

Here’s one for our resident researchers to look into.

Probably early-mid 80’s, night game away and I want to say its at one of the Welsh teams.

We win and one of our goal scorers was a really young blond haired kid who I think was Donny born and bred.

There was probably less than 100 Rovers fans there and around that time I’d probably gone on Webbo’s minibus if anyone remembers him.

That’s pretty much all I can remember about the game and our young goal scorer!

[BillyStubbsTears]

Here’s one for our resident researchers to look into.

Probably early-mid 80’s, night game away and I want to say its at one of the Welsh teams.

We win and one of our goal scorers was a really young blond haired kid who I think was Donny born and bred.

There was probably less than 100 Rovers fans there and around that time I’d probably gone on Webbo’s minibus if anyone remembers him.

That’s pretty much all I can remember about the game and our young goal scorer!

Micky Nesbitt at Newport?

[Draytonian III]

Another one to look up/think about Mickey Nesbitt, didn’t he score on his debut the first game of a season in the early eighties

..

[Herbert Anchovy]

Another one to look up/think about Mickey Nesbitt, didn’t he score on his debut the first game of a season in the early eighties

..

Ha I missed your post fella! Apologies! I didn’t realise that it was the first game of the season either.

[danumdon]

Working through the list and using the Rovers publication "100 Doncaster Rovers Greats" data, so presumably authoritative, Bert Tindill signed when he was 19 and 8 months, but when he scored his first goal is not specified, but I don't expect it was long afterwards. (He always seemed a bit selfish to me because he would shoot when a pass to someone in a better position looked a preferable option.) I have already given  precise details about Graham Watson above. Dizzie Burton was 21 when he signed. Clarrie Jordan didn't sign till he was 24. Alan Warboys was 18 and 1 month when he scored his first goal. Steve Uzelac was 19 and 7 months. I included Mike Elwiss's data in my first post. Peter Kitchen was 18 and 9 months when he scored his first. Any that have been excluded are not included in the book so not considered "great"! or perhaps more likely that there were no earlier records and in the first 50 years the club was in and out of the football league.  I never saw Clarrie Jordan who scored 44 goals for the Rovers in 1946/47 making him very much the hero of the generations before me and I didn't come in until the Syd Bycroft/Bert Tindill/ Peter Doherty/Paul Todd etc era

Apologies, I missed the Elwiss and Watson mentions you gave.

Yes re Dizzie Burton, my mistake. I did this without my Donny bible!

Clarrie Jordan first played for us in 1940 in the war leagues, born 20/6/22. League debut was when he was 24, so as far as official stats go then yes. For me, war years and first team non Football League games count. I'd guess he scored for us early in his career in the war games, but not got my hands on the book to check.

James Gresham is a firm challenger to Alick. DOB given is 1875, which means he will have been either 14 or 15 when scoring his first. A bit of a mystery untill his dob can be more accurately confirmed, although seems like a v impressive youngster even if what we currently have is a couple of years out. I might make that a project for my next round of Rovers reseach.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Gresham_(footballer)

Reading that Wiki write up (no idea if its correct or not) but young James sounded like a very progressive and forthright young fella, wonder if he had relatives that came from Denaby!