Police Brutality

[JESUSISHERE]

wilts rover wrote:

JESUSISHERE wrote:

Official complaints were made to the referee, match assessor and WBA football club.

Sorry Jesus, offical complaints were made by whom to those authorities? By Rovers? By the police?
My understanding is that is there is an issue with fans encroaching onto a playing area then it is the home club who takes the blame - hence the reason the bloke on the mic was telling the WBA fans not to go on the pitch. Do you know if any complaints has been made against Rovers - we can do without a fine thats for sure?

Official complaints were made by our senior steward.

Just to pick up on something any poster said.

BobG

As far as stewards being on average less intelligent than coppers, keep your stereotypical opinions to yourself.  Im at university studying for an accounting degree thankyou very much.  I know of several other stewards at university aswell.  So before you come back and say you must be pushing the average up, keep your non-football, non-relevant opinions to yourself.  i dont come and tell you how to do your job, so dont tell me how the fck to do mine.

[BobG]

I didn't. That must be your guilty conscinece speaking. I commented on the average IQ of stewards if you care to re-read my post. Want the evidence? You'll look a right tit then mate.

BobG

[JESUSISHERE]

average IQ, average intelligence, im sure IQ is intelligence quotient.  ive just said you commented on the intelligence of stewards, which i disagreed with, if you would like to re-read my post. then you will look like the tit....mate

[Albert Trousers]

At the end of the day WBA got promoted yesterday, there fans were always going to go on pitch whether they were advised not to or not. They came on the pitch and celebrated,at no point did they surge towards Rovers fans and at no point did Rovers fans surge to them, so whats the problem? At Stoke some of our fans spent more time on the pitch than the players.at no point did WBA fans come on the pitch during the game, if i recall Rovers fans were on pitch after every goal at the Britannia. Personally I thought WBA fans were subdued in there celebrations rather than over boisterous.

[BobG]

You're right Jesus. I did. But you made a right old bish about me telling you how to do your job. Which I didn't. So you still need to re-read my post.

And just to show that I don't generalise, or worse, go check these out yourself. They document the average IQ's of policeman and chaps such as yourself:


1) Iman, R.L. (1994).  A Data Based Approach to Statistics.  Belmont: Duxbury Press.
2)Wechsler, D. (1944).  The Measurement of Adult Intelligence.  Baltimore:  The Williams & Wilkins Company.

These, amongst many others, will show you that the:

Average IQ of a policeman is between 85 and 115.
Average IQ of protective service workers (exc Police) is between 75 and 115

Actually, these are percentiles, but you get the drift. So, you going to apologise?

If anyone is interested why average IQ's are given as ranges, I'd be happy to provide references.

BobG

[JESUSISHERE]

Two references, one 1994, the other one 1944, what a tool, i dont even need to bother commenting on that lol

Am i going to apologise? No

You said at the start of your post that we did nothing resembling thinking and made a simple situation 100 times worse.  Thats kinda telling me im not doing my job right. Thats criticising my work, so i took offence.

How was the situation simple, hundreds of fired up supporters wanting to commit an offence and run on the pitch, a few on the forum dont seem to care about that simply saying, its their day let them enjoy it.  So why not let them bring alcohol out into the stadium and enjoy it? Because its an offence.  The club can get fined if spectators encroach onto the pitch so we didnt want that to happen, we were doing our jobs.  As i said before, the situation was being controlled until the West Brom players ran up to the crowd and an advertising board was kicked down and then sprang up into the air causing a potential problem.

Just to show that you dont generalise, and then you reference something talking about average IQ's, thats giving a generalised view of all stewards surely?

Last time i took an IQ test, it came out at 156, so im more than punching above my weight for my job according to you.

[irelandsonthewing]

i have read this thread,all six pages,and its astounds me to be quite frank.Why oh why are we sniping at each other?have these tensions been around for a while and have spilled over?

one thing bob though that intrigues me about the average intelligence point you raise,looking at the references you have given.Are u really quoting from research that was done over 50 years ago?,and not even in this country.

The only thing i can think of when looking at the moral high ground on here regarding the coming onto the pitch,is yes it is against the law,but so is standing up when you are supposed to be sitting but many people do that every week.double standards anyone?? surely not on this forum....ha ha ha

[irelandsonthewing]

bob,please explain because you have me confused.You say that the police have low intelligence.Then quote a range of IQ from 85 to 115.

that range is for people with normal intellegence,so how can you say the police have low intelligence?

Also,you quote the figures as percentiles,again i dont understand what your getting at because as far as mensa are concerned then anyone with a percentile score of 99% is in the bracket of being in the top 1% of the most intelligent people in the country.

and isnt the fact that its called a percentile mean the top mark is 100,not the 115 you quote in your reply?

as far as i was aware you take an IQ test to get your score, ie 113, and then this is converted into a percentile.

[JESUSISHERE]

i like this guy! thats why i didnt even bother answering back to his references, it was a ridiculous argument.

Regarding fans standing up, i dont think its so much as a double standard, theres a big difference between standing up and going on the pitch. i suppose that if thats what the rules say, then people should try to adhere to it. However,  I personally, as a steward, feel that if fans wish to stand up, as long as it is at the top of the stadium, and not obstructing anyone's view, nor is it being complained about by other fans, then i dont see the problem with it.  The majority was used to standing at belle vue, including myself, and its just trying to bring an atmosphere to a stadium with almost zero atmosphere.  No-one wants to sit down and sing!

[CusworthRovers]

Back to you Bob G

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

BobG wrote:

I didn't. That must be your guilty conscinece speaking. I commented on the average IQ of stewards if you care to re-read my post. Want the evidence? You'll look a right tit then mate.

BobG

That was a generalisation, some of the stewards are very intelligent guys with high paid jobs in authority.  Very unfair to lump them all in with one.  Some of them with these decent jobs are called thick and some of them also get told they have no 'bottle' and whimp away from stuff when some of them have fought in wars for this country.

Whether they do a good job or not, the shit they get from fans is not really fair is it?

[Filo]

premieralbion wrote:

Afternoon gents. Just thought I'd give you a bit of perspective from an Albion point of view.

First of all, most of your stewards were fantastic yesterday, as were your fans who were very complimentary and friendly. Donny town centre was also a cracking place - I must admit, I expected it to be a bit of a dive!

Anyway, the pitch invasion. I didn't agree with it one bit - it's not our pitch and you lot have still got games left to play on it. It's just disrespectful, really.

However, one of your stewards in the suit and sunglasses (blonde haired fat c**t) decided to punch and kick one of our fans AFTER he had been restrained. This is just totally unacceptable and resulted in a load more going on the pitch to confront him and inform the police of what they'd seen. I went on just to inform the police of what I'd seen and then when he saw me point him out, he decided to start goading me and several other fans from behind a line of police. Proper big fat coward.

Anyway, thanks for a great day and being so hospitable. All the best for the rest of the season and if you don't make it to the play-offs this year, I'd be pretty confident of you lot making it next year. Very good footballing side - just a shame about your dog head manager!

If you can`t do the time don`t do the crime! I don`t know if this is the incident you are on about, if it is then all i can say is that if the lad would have not put up a fight or resisted arrest then he wouldn`t have been thrown about, the coppers should have given him some truncheon to slow him down a bit!


[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_Nb5X-J8dw[/video]

[Snods Shinpad 2]

Another video here.

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hk4-26Lbl6w [/video]

The West Stand looks almost empty.

[Albert Trousers]

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_Nb5X-J8dw[/video][/quote]

Does a member of this forum pop on to the screen on 2 mins 16 secs  

[jucyberry]

Snods Shinpad wrote:

The West Stand looks almost empty.

Just as Redwine said....  

[BobG]

OK chaps. Some of you believe that older research is valueless. An emotional reaction if ever there was one since none of you provide any evidence at all of research saying anything different from the research I have at least provided. If you can actually point to later research that says the contrary, then we will, at last, have moved beyond the purely juvenile responses so far. Right now all I have seen, still, is knee jerk emotion. At least I have quoted research in support of my views - unlike you.

Am I right to suppose from your comments that if I bring 'recent' research to your attention that says the same thing, you'll accept that then? Because here it is: go on. Look at it for yourselves. I didn't quote it last night because it shows you lot to be even dimmer than the studies I did quote.

IQ Differences for Adults in Different Occupations

WAIS-R Mean IQ Range
   
Occupational Category
110-112    Professional and technical
103-104    Managers, clerical, sales
100-102    Skilled workers
92-94            Semiskilled workers
87-89            Unskilled workers

Kaufman, Alan S. Assessing Adolescent and Adult Intelligence. Allyn and Bacon, 1990.

Until you produce some evidence, all you've got to offer is hot air.

As for coppers and their intelligence, I could provide you with chapter and verse - but I'll let you do that for yourselves - showing coppers, on average, rank somewhere a few points below midway in the IQ scale.

Happy Cussy?!

Cheers

BobG

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

BobG wrote:

OK chaps. Some of you believe that older research is valueless. An emotional reaction if ever there was one since none of you provide any evidence at all of research saying anything different from the research I have at least provided. If you can actually point to later research that says the contrary, then we will, at last, have moved beyond the purely juvenile responses so far. Right now all I have seen, still, is knee jerk emotion. At least I have quoted research in support of my views - unlike you.

Am I right to suppose from your comments that if I bring 'recent' research to your attention that says the same thing, you'll accept that then? Because here it is: go on. Look at it for yourselves. I didn't quote it last night because it shows you lot to be even dimmer than the studies I did quote.

IQ Differences for Adults in Different Occupations

WAIS-R Mean IQ Range
   
Occupational Category
110-112    Professional and technical
103-104    Managers, clerical, sales
100-102    Skilled workers
92-94            Semiskilled workers
87-89            Unskilled workers

Kaufman, Alan S. Assessing Adolescent and Adult Intelligence. Allyn and Bacon, 1990.

Until you produce some evidence, all you've got to offer is hot air.

As for coppers and their intelligence, I could provide you with chapter and verse - but I'll let you do that for yourselves - showing coppers, on average, rank somewhere a few points below midway in the IQ scale.

Happy Cussy?!

Cheers

BobG

Still doesn't get past the variable.  How do you know some students don't also work in those professions at the top of that 'research'?  Some of them actually do, so kinda points to a flaw in the argument really.

[BobG]

That may or may not be true BFTP. It's a subject it'd be interesting to debate. But it's not germane to this particular one. What we have here is an allegation, by me, that some people take offence to. But rather than provide evidence in support of their position they simply blow hot air and emotion. I have simply provided another respected set of properly researched data to overcome their bizarre prejudice that 'old research' is of no value.

Cheers

BobG

[topnotch_Donny]

BobG wrote:

OK chaps. Some of you believe that older research is valueless. An emotional reaction if ever there was one since none of you provide any evidence at all of research saying anything different from the research I have at least provided. If you can actually point to later research that says the contrary, then we will, at last, have moved beyond the purely juvenile responses so far. Right now all I have seen, still, is knee jerk emotion. At least I have quoted research in support of my views - unlike you.

Am I right to suppose from your comments that if I bring 'recent' research to your attention that says the same thing, you'll accept that then? Because here it is: go on. Look at it for yourselves. I didn't quote it last night because it shows you lot to be even dimmer than the studies I did quote.

IQ Differences for Adults in Different Occupations

WAIS-R Mean IQ Range
   
Occupational Category
110-112    Professional and technical
103-104    Managers, clerical, sales
100-102    Skilled workers
92-94            Semiskilled workers
87-89            Unskilled workers

Kaufman, Alan S. Assessing Adolescent and Adult Intelligence. Allyn and Bacon, 1990.

Until you produce some evidence, all you've got to offer is hot air.

As for coppers and their intelligence, I could provide you with chapter and verse - but I'll let you do that for yourselves - showing coppers, on average, rank somewhere a few points below midway in the IQ scale.

Happy Cussy?!

Cheers

BobG

Here's a meat head with a high IQ score.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXksaSewCEs

PS Most simpletons are the happiest  :S  Smart people realise how shit and pointless this life is  

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

BobG wrote:

That may or may not be true BFTP. It's a subject it'd be interesting to debate. But it's not germane to this particular one. What we have here is an allegation, by me, that some people take offence to. But rather than provide evidence in support of their position they simply blow hot air and emotion. I have simply provided another respected set of properly researched data to overcome their bizarre prejudice that 'old research' is of no value.

Cheers

BobG

It is true 100%  

To be fair I'm of the opinion that old research has some value but having spent 4 years at uni looking mainly at research I've found that much of it is utterly pointless, flawed and a waste of money.

[CusworthRovers]

BobG wrote:

OK chaps. Some of you believe that older research is valueless. An emotional reaction if ever there was one since none of you provide any evidence at all of research saying anything different from the research I have at least provided. If you can actually point to later research that says the contrary, then we will, at last, have moved beyond the purely juvenile responses so far. Right now all I have seen, still, is knee jerk emotion. At least I have quoted research in support of my views - unlike you.

Am I right to suppose from your comments that if I bring 'recent' research to your attention that says the same thing, you'll accept that then? Because here it is: go on. Look at it for yourselves. I didn't quote it last night because it shows you lot to be even dimmer than the studies I did quote.

IQ Differences for Adults in Different Occupations

WAIS-R Mean IQ Range
   
Occupational Category
110-112    Professional and technical
103-104    Managers, clerical, sales
100-102    Skilled workers
92-94            Semiskilled workers
87-89            Unskilled workers

Kaufman, Alan S. Assessing Adolescent and Adult Intelligence. Allyn and Bacon, 1990.

Until you produce some evidence, all you've got to offer is hot air.

As for coppers and their intelligence, I could provide you with chapter and verse - but I'll let you do that for yourselves - showing coppers, on average, rank somewhere a few points below midway in the IQ scale.

Happy Cussy?!

Cheers

BobG

No probs with that Bob. I'm always happy. It wasn't me that was arguing against you. I've only contributed 4 words to this thread and that's 'over to you Bob'

But now you have me, where do Stewards fit into that analogy, out of interest? You state coppers are half way I think, so that doesn't really make them sub-normal does it?

[premieralbion]

JESUSISHERE wrote:

I'd like to put across my point of view being one of the stewards moved over to the North Stand from the West at the end of the game.  The crowd situation was under control until the West Brom players came running over to the fans and this caused fans wanting to get to them and an advertising board being kicked off which flew into the air.  This had to be moved so as not to cause any injury and this unfortunately left open a gap for the West Brom fans to get onto the pitch.  In my opinion, we were understaffed in that corner (closest to the West Stand) and it was clear that the main area where fans were going to try and go on the pitch from from this corner.

Once they were on the pitch it was safer to move back and get the players in before moving the fans back which i believe was done well.

I cannot speak for any other steward or member of the police because i was dealing with the situation in my own way.

In my opinion the problem started when the West Brom players ran over. They had ample time to go into the dressing room after the game, get changed and then come back out and see the fans; the fans were always going to wait.  i heard numerous fan leaving angry calling their players selfish bstards for not coming back out.

Official complaints were made to the referee, match assessor and WBA football club.

Any idea if any action is to be brought against the bloke in the suit and sunglasses who assaulted a bloke pinned down on the floor and then attempted to goad me into getting arrested? I can tell you now that the majority of people I saw going mad were going mad because of him.

[idler]

Until the 1960s you couldn't even get into the Police Force below a certain height. I think that it was 5'10\" in Donny but 6' in some areas. That meant that a good percentage of people of above average intelligence weren't even considered.
Maybe these drifted into other careers affecting the averages. Police officers now have to pass an entrance exam that I don't think they did in the forties.
 I've worked in Engineering most of my life and would rather deal with someone with lots of common sense than some of the boffins who screw up on a daily basis because they don't see the broader picture.
My IQ is 148 and I have a semi-skilled job but I'm happy and solvent.  

[Filo]

idler wrote:

Until the 1960s you couldn't even get into the Police Force below a certain height. I think that it was 5'10\" in Donny but 6' in some areas. That meant that a good percentage of people of above average intelligence weren't even considered.
Maybe these drifted into other careers affecting the averages. Police officers now have to pass an entrance exam that I don't think they did in the forties.
 I've worked in Engineering most of my life and would rather deal with someone with lots of common sense than some of the boffins who screw up on a daily basis because they don't see the broader picture.
My IQ is 148 and I have a semi-skilled job but I'm happy and solvent.  

For someone of that iq i'm surprised that you're using solvents

[idler]

That's why I'm so happy.      
I had a unit at work today that required a certain part. There are different variations of the said part so instead of asking which one, the engineer had 3 versions made. Result, none of them were right, we are now having a fourth one made.
Now you know why I need solvents.

[graingrover]

Thank God we are not all classified as good bad or ugly by sporadic IQ tests of ad hoc socio professional groupings made by consultants working for organisations with nowt better to do!