What do you expect?

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

From the club considering all the aspects we know about?  We have small crowds, no billionaire backer but we have a top manager, some good players and are debt free.

I sense a lot of disappointment that we've missed out on players and it is a shame.  But should we expect to compete with clubs who have 2-3 times our crowd and money?  It'd be interesting to see what people expect the club to do.  Should we break the budget and spend more than we can afford?  Do people expect that?  Do we gamble on cheap players?  

Given the club we are, is missing out on Shackell/Ward a surprise?  Should we be able to fight off the likes of Norwich for a player?  It's interesting when you think about it.

[watto-drfc]

average gate at norwich 25000+

[Filo]

I think it`s natural to be disappointed, no I don`t think we should put the club in a bad financial position, I think we could be a bit more discreet about our targets, we seem to rule ourselves out of the running for players as soon as a \"bigger\" club shows interested by saying that we can`t compete financially, I think we need to be more aggressive in our approach to signing players, softly, softly seems to give other clubs time to come in and out muscle us

[JamieM]

big fat yorkshire pudding wrote:

From the club considering all the aspects we know about?  We have small crowds, no billionaire backer but we have a top manager, some good players and are debt free.

I sense a lot of disappointment that we've missed out on players and it is a shame.  But should we expect to compete with clubs who have 2-3 times our crowd and money?  It'd be interesting to see what people expect the club to do.  Should we break the budget and spend more than we can afford?  Do people expect that?  Do we gamble on cheap players?  

Given the club we are, is missing out on Shackell/Ward a surprise?  Should we be able to fight off the likes of Norwich for a player?  It's interesting when you think about it.

It is very interesting to think about, as Jonathan has already mentoned in a previous thread, we are at a ''crossroads'' in terms of spending.

My personal opinion - the priority has to be staying debt free. We've proved that we can stay in the Championship comfortably whilst not breaking the budget. For now, carry on taking advantage of the loan market.

I think from here it is a very slow, gradual building process. To be able to compete financially with other teams in the division attendances need to rise. With further establishment in the Championship, the advert of good football and an appreciating local economy i hope that this slowly happens.

We shouldn't be surprised (still disappointed though) at the loss of Shackell (Barnsley have just released all their top earners) and Ward (20,000 odd ST sales already). Hopefully with steady growth over the next 5 or so years we should begin to be able to compete with most in the Championship.

I dont think we should ever spend beyond our means, what good has it done Hull, Portsmouth and Leeds?

[donnybez]

What i expect is good cheap signings. I expect players signed on contracts early.

What i know is that we need to educate our 'younger' or 'less remembering' fans on Richardson. After what he did, i'm glad my team is actually existing.

All i want is some new defenders and strikers and an improved youth facillity to beat our Yorkshire rivals

[CusworthRovers]

Our youth facilities/set up has improved beyond recognition.

We have acquired 2 new defenders in the last year. There may be more to come.

We have let 2 strikers go, and I agree we need more and I suspect will get more.

[donnybez]

By youth i meant i wanted a 'Crewe' standard, a conveyor belt of quality

Yes but if we have another 3 injuries that highlights the lack of squad depth

I would love to see Gorica's Etien Velikonja with us as he could be a potential prospect

[CusworthRovers]

A Crewe standard that you want does not come cheap. I recall the Crewe chairman about 2 years ago stating that their infamous academy would have to be sacrificed to keep the rising costs/expenditure down. He stated the academy can be up to £1m to run. I believe grants are available from the Prem League/FA for around 200k. Those grants are only payable on the quality of the academy. Is it not surprising that Donny have improved their S of E no end, probably to qualify for these hand outs.

I'm not sure how the Crewe Academy is today, but I fear the Dean Ashtons, Danny Murphy, Seth Johnsons may turn out to be distant memories for them. Nick Maynard being the last name to come out of this academy. Will the next one be more luck than structured development. Will the next one happen at all.

If you value the Youth system so much and want a Crewe scenario, then back the club to the hilt with VSC membership, Alliance.

Soton did the same thing and it took 8 years to turn it round and produce a Wayne Bridge, Bale and Walcott. Donny are only a few years into theirs.

Give it time, Ryan/Sean always make reference to it in terms of wanting to do it and the costs involved. Our system is growing/improving whilst many clubs are going backwards.

[donnybez]

I understand it costs lots but look at the money Crewe made off it.
Ours i'll admit is good with Paul Green being one name but Waide Fairhurts technically is and isn't ours as he was at Sheffield United first i believe, however FIFA would class him as a 'drop-out'.
I would like our Board to buy the Keepmoat Stadium and build up our facillities as well as invest further in building closer links to local and foreign clubs.

As you can see, im a very infrastructure kinda person. I believe that the more we work on this and building income, the more likely we'll survive and avoid another Richardson era from striking us and knocking the great progress we have made.

[CusworthRovers]

We haven't had one success out of this youth system at all (ie played consistently for our team or gone onto better things). But it will hopefully come.


Edit. And bear in mind it's not made Crewe any better off. When they sold Maynard for 2.2million in 2008 it gave them a whacking profit of 84 thousand at the end of that season. They are reputably in debt to the tune of around 1-2 million.

[donnybez]

CusworthRovers wrote:

We haven't had one success out of this youth system at all (ie played consistently for our team or gone onto better things). But it will hopefully come.

Paul Green.

[PACMAN]

donnybez wrote:

CusworthRovers wrote:

We haven't had one success out of this youth system at all (ie played consistently for our team or gone onto better things). But it will hopefully come.

Paul Green.

Paul Green was released by Wednesday and Mickey Walker snapped him up just after the youth team was reformed!!

[CusworthRovers]

Thanks PACMAN

[donnybez]

Fair enough. Then we havent got any that are 'solely' ours. By FIFA standards, they are, as they class as drop outs but i guess we are missing a Doncaster from start quality player.

Why do i want a Crewe Academy?
Simple. If we can make 12 gems in 10 years at £1.5m each, imagine the improvement that could be done at all levels of our club. They are alive and kicking albeit not in as good health as before, because they have such a quality youth set up, i insist that we should be looking to beat them and others and become a centre of excellence. Barnets new facillities make ours look Conference class

[wilts rover]

CusworthRovers wrote:

We haven't had one success out of this youth system at all (ie played consistently for our team or gone onto better things). But it will hopefully come.

Jamie Price and Robert Gill are the two I can think of - which I guess only serves to prove your point

[donnybez]

Robert Gill is from Notts Forest
And Price, im not sure about him

[DonnyNoel]

donnybez wrote:

Robert Gill is from Notts Forest
And Price, im not sure about him

Price was from Leeds Utd.

[donnybez]

DonnyNoel wrote:

donnybez wrote:

Robert Gill is from Notts Forest
And Price, im not sure about him

Price was from Leeds Utd.

Right then


so essentially we have raised.....No one.
Right doesn't that say alot about our Youth Department?

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Craig Nelthorpe was though.

[DonnyNoel]

donnybez wrote:

DonnyNoel wrote:

donnybez wrote:

Robert Gill is from Notts Forest
And Price, im not sure about him

Price was from Leeds Utd.

Right then


so essentially we have raised.....No one.
Right doesn't that say alot about our Youth Department?

Not to play at this level but Nelly was a decent prospect and had Adam Brown not done his knee in at a crucial point in his development I think more could have been seen of him. But yes, overall its a pity, especially when you consider the Doncaster-born talent that has come through the youth leagues and gone on to play decent league football. Then again, when you see how widely the bigger clubs cast their nets...do we face the same problem recruiting youngsters as we do first teamers (based on reputation not silly money!)

[donnybez]

I'd like us to try and develop some good youngsters. Craig Nelthorpe was, yes, but hes where right now? What i want is youth teamers that make us money to survie and do their bit for the benefit of the team

[steve@dcfd]

donnybez wrote:

DonnyNoel wrote:

donnybez wrote:

Robert Gill is from Notts Forest
And Price, im not sure about him

Price was from Leeds Utd.

Right then


so essentially we have raised.....No one.
Right doesn't that say alot about our Youth Department?

Lets go back to the youth team that played Arsenal 1988 in the English Youth Cup Final. Ok they were beat 6 - 1

Brian Deane
Paul Raven
Mark Rankine

Three that I can remember.

[DonnyNoel]

steve@dcfd wrote:

donnybez wrote:

DonnyNoel wrote:

donnybez wrote:

Robert Gill is from Notts Forest
And Price, im not sure about him

Price was from Leeds Utd.

Right then


so essentially we have raised.....No one.
Right doesn't that say alot about our Youth Department?

Lets go back to the youth team that played Arsenal 1988 in the English Youth Cup Final. Ok they were beat 6 - 1

Brian Deane
Paul Raven
Mark Rankine

Three that I can remember.

Thats the sad thing, the youth set up went from an FA Cup semi in 88 to not actually sending scouts to watch local junior finals in the mid 90's (Leeds and Sheff Utd always sent some). Its not hard to guess what went wrong for the club in that time and given the impressive rise up the ranks since JR took over its obviously been hard to put stable things in place away from the first team, as alluded to by SOD in the GoalFood interview.

Also in the 90's the Donny youth leagues grew incredibly so other clubs will have started to take notice of players at this level. In the late 90's my dad was a registrar for the U10's league and there were youngsters being signed by Leeds on almost a monthly basis.

[BillyStubbsTears]

steve@dcfd wrote:

donnybez wrote:

DonnyNoel wrote:

donnybez wrote:

Robert Gill is from Notts Forest
And Price, im not sure about him

Price was from Leeds Utd.

Right then


so essentially we have raised.....No one.
Right doesn't that say alot about our Youth Department?

Lets go back to the youth team that played Arsenal 1988 in the English Youth Cup Final. Ok they were beat 6 - 1

Brian Deane
Paul Raven
Mark Rankine

Three that I can remember.

Raffel, Brevett, Gaughan.

Wasn't Deane too old for that team? I thought Neil Morris was the centre forward?

I agree with the general point though. In the last 20 years, there cannot be a single other professional club that has been as shite as us at raising young players. If we had Steve Beaglehole allied to Ryan's money and O'Driscoll nous, we'd be in the top division by now.

[CusworthRovers]

On DROS. 8 players have just signed to the Rovers Youth team; next stop being squad player.

4 of those 8 are from our own S of E. Hopefully the start of it

[Snods Shinpad 2]

Was just reading that. Good luck to them.

One of them is the spitting image of a young Solskjaer. Anyone know if we have any exciting prospects in the pipeline?

[Alan Southstand]

Wasn't Deane too old for that team? I thought Neil Morris was the centre forward?

No he wasn't BST, it was Deane and Nesbitt for most of that season. He may have been too old for the cup games, though.

[kybone]

Just thought i needed to point out that craig nelthorp wasnt produced by us either. He came from rotherham.

[JonWallsend]

Alan Southstand wrote:

Wasn't Deane too old for that team? I thought Neil Morris was the centre forward?

No he wasn't BST, it was Deane and Nesbitt for most of that season. He may have been too old for the cup games, though.

No, it was Neil Morris. Deane was leading the line for the first team during the 88 season.
My overiding memory of that final was the sheer size and ability of Kevin Campbell.

[donnybez]

Right then....thats not making us any better. What can we do to be top club in Yorkshire for youth development?