Waterdale project in town

[MrFrost]

Now that Yorkshire Forward funding has been cut or defered, i've heard talk that the probabilty of this redevlopment scheme happening is virtually nill.

I also understand that massive compensation has to be paid to the developers should the deal fall through or the council back out, which ultimately the tax payer will be paying for.

Add to this the millions the council has spent on the Waterfront site near the new college, preparing the land for redevelopment, again, something which will never happen. Money that potentially could have been spent elsewhere.

How do people feel about this?

[Barmby Rover]

How do you feel about such things? Surely you are delighted as you supported the party that wanted to do such things. I suppose the big numbers of folks losing their jobs from the local authority and anybody who supplies the council losing their jobs are also just a consequence of good policy. Let's hope that the private sector are going to pick up all these folks in the Donny area. I doubt they will somehow.

[MrFrost]

Maybe the council were shortsighted when they signed off on such scheme's.

The Waterfront one especially. Spending countless millions developing a 90 berth marina for fecks sake. What use is that to anyone. Spending millions and millions making the land ready for private sector investment, of which there will be none.

DMBC entered into a crazy agreement with the developers of the CCQ at the time of a recession, when they knew the project could fall flat on its face, which it is now almost certain to do so.

[Barmby Rover]

No doubt the beloved leader should have just torn up the agreement then, or maybe he tried and found out that it would be illegal like a lot of his other thoughts. Developing waterfront property has been a very good starter in a lot of towns/cities, look at Leeds,York,Lincoln, the east end of London etc etc. It doesn't seem such a stupid move to me, unless the sudden collapse in the banking system should have been foreseen by DMBC. If they could have done that then they would have been far and away ahead of virtually every economist and politician in the western world. they can hardly be blamed for that one. the loss is just another of the wasted schemes created by the lack of the willingness of banks to lend to anybody, including the private sector.

[MrFrost]

The site preperation for the Waterfront scheme started years before the banking collapse, and there was no private sector interest then.

Since then, the council have conintued (and still do) to plough money into it. I suggest you go and take a look at this multi million pound marina next to the new college, and see the uses it has.

With regards to the CCQ, it was extremely naive for the council to sign into an agreement with such severe financial penalties with the economy as it was at the time.

What surprises me is that the initial phase of the CCQ comes to a cost of something like £65 million, of which Yorkshire Forward were contributing less than a million. One would think, they would try and plug the gap, rather than pay the developers compensation for nothing?

[Savvy]

MrFrost wrote:

Now that Yorkshire Forward funding has been cut or defered, i've heard talk that the probabilty of this redevlopment scheme happening is virtually nill.

I also understand that massive compensation has to be paid to the developers should the deal fall through or the council back out, which ultimately the tax payer will be paying for.

Add to this the millions the council has spent on the Waterfront site near the new college, preparing the land for redevelopment, again, something which will never happen. Money that potentially could have been spent elsewhere.

How do people feel about this?

Interested to hear your sources, the last I heard in the FP seems to contradict this;


DONCASTER's new council offices will be the most eco-friendly in the country, according to developers.
Plans for the £300 million Cultural and Civic Quarter have taken a major step forward after the council's planning committee approved detailed proposals for part of its first phase.

Work to create a five-storey 157,500sq ft building housing most of the authority's town centre services and around 1,400 staff will now be built on the former Doncaster College site.

It will also include a new council chamber overlooking the town's first public square and a purpose-built customer service centre.

Peter Cartwright, of Cartwright Pickard Architects told a planning meeting the building would be the most sustainable in the country.

He said: \"We are trying to design a building with good quality materials that improves with age.

\"People inside will benefit from working in a building like this. It will put Doncaster on the map.\"

The offices will be positioned to attract the least amount of heat, in order to cut down on air conditioning, Mr Cartwright added.

Developers Muse want to demolish several 1960s eyesores and replacing them with modern buildings as part the CCQ. The plans are seen as key to the regeneration of 25 acres of the town centre.

The Commission for Architecture and the Built Environment has previously criticised the new council building saying the plans lacked imagination and understanding of how residents would use it.

Work on the new offices is expected to start in November. It is hoped permission for a new performance venue will be granted in October with construction starting in early 2011, with the public square to follow.

The four phase ten year plan also includes proposals for a four-star boutique hotel on the site of the former Girls High School, homes, a new library, swimming pool and leisure facilities and extra parking. However, it is not known if these will go ahead.

Former mayor Martin Winter signed off the first phase of the CCQ to Muse in his final days in office. His successor Peter Davies was forced to continue with the development after it was revealed that shelving the plans would cost taxpayers £25 million.

He said: \"Virtually everything residents want to know or do will be under one roof and this will enable the council to deliver the first class service they deserve.

[mushRTID]

Cant believe Muse are developing. I hope they realise time is running out...

 

[MrFrost]

There have been reports in the Free Press, Star and on the BBC since this article was pubished, confirming the Yorkshire Forward cut backs and how this throws the project into limbo.

[Savvy]

MrFrost wrote:

There have been reports in the Free Press, Star and on the BBC since this article was pubished, confirming the Yorkshire Forward cut backs and how this throws the project into limbo.

Yes, but any confirming that the first phase will not now take place? The council or \"our glorious leader\" have signed off on it havent they?

[MrFrost]

Nothing confirming, no. Hence my original post refering to \"talk\".

The noises coming from the press though, is that the scheme is unlikely to get off the ground because of the cuts and defering of funding.

[Mike_F]

This will be the worst blow for Donny since the airport closed down...

[MrFrost]

My original question is how do people feel that the council have wasted millions on these two white elephants. We are all aware of the shortcomings Doncater council and the town as a whole has. Surely these millions would have been better spent elsewhere.

[Savvy]

Mike_F wrote:

This will be the worst blow for Donny since the airport closed down...

My thoughts exactly!

If were talking about wasted money, what about the £750 per day per person we are now spending on these 3 auditors who are to \"oversee\" the councils actions for the next 18 months?

Never been to Doncaster,and will no doubt produce an 150 page report at the end of their tenure in order to justify the almost 1 million pound of council tax payers money spent!

[MrFrost]

Savvy wrote:

Mike_F wrote:

This will be the worst blow for Donny since the airport closed down...

My thoughts exactly!

If were talking about wasted money, what about the £750 per day per person we are now spending on these 3 auditors who are to \"oversee\" the councils actions for the next 18 months?

Never been to Doncaster,and will no doubt produce an 150 page report at the end of their tenure in order to justify the almost 1 million pound of council tax payers money spent!

Should I presume then you are happy with the council's investment on scheme's such as the Waterfront and CCQ, even though ultimately the tax payer will foot the bill?

[Savvy]

MrFrost wrote:

Savvy wrote:

Mike_F wrote:

This will be the worst blow for Donny since the airport closed down...

My thoughts exactly!

If were talking about wasted money, what about the £750 per day per person we are now spending on these 3 auditors who are to \"oversee\" the councils actions for the next 18 months?

Never been to Doncaster,and will no doubt produce an 150 page report at the end of their tenure in order to justify the almost 1 million pound of council tax payers money spent!

Should I presume then you are happy with the council's investment on scheme's such as the Waterfront and CCQ, even though ultimately the tax payer will foot the bill?

Can't speak for Mike, but I'm quite happy to see that part of town being re-generated. the area of the CCQ needs something to galvanise it to the rest of town and should see the \"foot-fall\" in the area increase.

Yes I'm aware that the tax payer will pay the larger part of the bill, but that should be money well spent if it attracts private money into the area and boosting the local economy!!!!

[MrFrost]

The chances of private sector investment is virtually nil due to the current climate.

If, and if it is a big if any redevlopment happens, all we will see are some shiny new council offices.

The biggest waste of money, frankly though, has to be the Waterfront. The millions spent here, gambling for private sector investment is quite astonishing!

[hoolahoop]

MrFrost wrote:

The chances of private sector investment is virtually nil due to the current climate.

If, and if it is a big if any redevlopment happens, all we will see are some shiny new council offices.

The biggest waste of money, frankly though, has to be the Waterfront. The millions spent here, gambling for private sector investment is quite astonishing!

Ae you suggesting that the Airport and the CCQ are a complete waste of time!  
Take it the KMS and Frenchgate centre and Interchange were a waste of time too, ffs this town needs to move forward or would you have us back to the days of 'horse drawn' trams running up and down Balby Road.
We have to speculate to accumulate and recent surveys state that Donny has not suffered in quite the same way as other local towns during this depression, why because it attracts folk to it's facilities.
Money is cheaper to borrow at present if required..........so press on and turn this town into a proper city with the amenities to match.

[MrFrost]

Those developments actually happened. The ones I am talking about haven't, and are in doubt, yet money is still being spent (in the case of the Waterfront) to try and attract private sector investment, which in the current climate wont happen. That is simple economics. The construction of a 90 berth marina which has stood empty for the last 18 motnsh proves this point.

The CCQ is just an excuse to get the council new offices. The so called \"new performance venue\" could easily have made use of the old Odeon cinema before it was demolished, or the much more impressive Grand Theatre.

As I said before, the noises coming from the press and BBC is that the CCQ project will collapse because of the funding issue's with Yorkshire Forward, as a result, the developers are due around £30 million in compensation. The wise move would have been to hold off on signing any such agreement until the economy was more stable.

[Barmby Rover]

hoolahoop wrote:

MrFrost wrote:

The chances of private sector investment is virtually nil due to the current climate.

If, and if it is a big if any redevlopment happens, all we will see are some shiny new council offices.

The biggest waste of money, frankly though, has to be the Waterfront. The millions spent here, gambling for private sector investment is quite astonishing!

Ae you suggesting that the Airport and the CCQ are a complete waste of time!  
Take it the KMS and Frenchgate centre and Interchange were a waste of time too, ffs this town needs to move forward or would you have us back to the days of 'horse drawn' trams running up and down Balby Road.
We have to speculate to accumulate and recent surveys state that Donny has not suffered in quite the same way as other local towns during this depression, why because it attracts folk to it's facilities.
Money is cheaper to borrow at present if required..........so press on and turn this town into a proper city with the amenities to match.

Exactly Hoola, money invested in infrastructure is never wasted money. Facilities and developments like that attract the right sort of businesses to the town and eventually they get paid back through the rating/council tax system. Wasted money is sacking people and putting them on the dole, where they become demotivated,deskilled and cost the rst of society in helping them not to starve. I guess our friends from the late seventies/eighties never learned that lesson.

[MrFrost]

Barmby Rover wrote:

hoolahoop wrote:

MrFrost wrote:

The chances of private sector investment is virtually nil due to the current climate.

If, and if it is a big if any redevlopment happens, all we will see are some shiny new council offices.

The biggest waste of money, frankly though, has to be the Waterfront. The millions spent here, gambling for private sector investment is quite astonishing!

Ae you suggesting that the Airport and the CCQ are a complete waste of time!  
Take it the KMS and Frenchgate centre and Interchange were a waste of time too, ffs this town needs to move forward or would you have us back to the days of 'horse drawn' trams running up and down Balby Road.
We have to speculate to accumulate and recent surveys state that Donny has not suffered in quite the same way as other local towns during this depression, why because it attracts folk to it's facilities.
Money is cheaper to borrow at present if required..........so press on and turn this town into a proper city with the amenities to match.

Exactly Hoola, money invested in infrastructure is never wasted money. Facilities and developments like that attract the right sort of businesses to the town and eventually they get paid back through the rating/council tax system. Wasted money is sacking people and putting them on the dole, where they become demotivated,deskilled and cost the rst of society in helping them not to starve. I guess our friends from the late seventies/eighties never learned that lesson.

Another pointless dig at the Tories I see.
Maybe our Council should concentrate on spending money on the poorer area's of Doncaster rather than investing into developing land ready for the mass invasion of investment from the private sector.

Maybe they should spend some money to cut the grass on the central reservation on White Rose Way or York Road which hasn't been done for the last couple of years.

The money could be spent alot more wiseley.