Brexit Benefits Log

[Not Now Kato]

Billy. I posted a link to the views of two scholars on the benefits of Brexit, on a benefits of Brexit log thread.
My apologies if that was misleading.

Have you not noticed that the goalposts have changed now from benefit to benefits the whole of the UK

Ah, so you agree that Brexit will only benefit the rich then?  And that that's what people who voted leave voted for?

[drfchound]

Billy. I posted a link to the views of two scholars on the benefits of Brexit, on a benefits of Brexit log thread.
My apologies if that was misleading.

Have you not noticed that the goalposts have changed now from benefit to benefits the whole of the UK

Ah, so you agree that Brexit will only benefit the rich then?  And that that's what people who voted leave voted for?

Yeah coz all the people who voted leave are rich people aren’t they.
And where did ldr say that Brexit will only benefit the rich.

[Ldr]

Billy. I posted a link to the views of two scholars on the benefits of Brexit, on a benefits of Brexit log thread.
My apologies if that was misleading.

Have you not noticed that the goalposts have changed now from benefit to benefits the whole of the UK

Ah, so you agree that Brexit will only benefit the rich then?  And that that's what people who voted leave voted for?

Yeah coz all the people who voted leave are rich people aren’t they.
And where did ldr say that Brexit will only benefit the rich.

Well I didn't say that did I? Clearly an agenda coming in to play now if change the goalposts Once a benefit has been mentioned and lie about what ppl have said to back up the agenda. To use what BST hides behind all the time, too many on here posting in bad faith

[drfchound]

Billy. I posted a link to the views of two scholars on the benefits of Brexit, on a benefits of Brexit log thread.
My apologies if that was misleading.

Have you not noticed that the goalposts have changed now from benefit to benefits the whole of the UK

Ah, so you agree that Brexit will only benefit the rich then?  And that that's what people who voted leave voted for?

Yeah coz all the people who voted leave are rich people aren’t they.
And where did ldr say that Brexit will only benefit the rich.

Well I didn't say that did I? Clearly an agenda coming in to play now if change the goalposts Once a benefit has been mentioned and lie about what ppl have said to back up the agenda. To use what BST hides behind all the time, too many on here posting in bad faith

The thing is ldr, if you don’t challenge stuff it becomes a truth on here.

[Not Now Kato]

Billy. I posted a link to the views of two scholars on the benefits of Brexit, on a benefits of Brexit log thread.
My apologies if that was misleading.

Have you not noticed that the goalposts have changed now from benefit to benefits the whole of the UK

Ah, so you agree that Brexit will only benefit the rich then?  And that that's what people who voted leave voted for?

Yeah coz all the people who voted leave are rich people aren’t they.
And where did ldr say that Brexit will only benefit the rich.

Well I didn't say that did I? Clearly an agenda coming in to play now if change the goalposts Once a benefit has been mentioned and lie about what ppl have said to back up the agenda. To use what BST hides behind all the time, too many on here posting in bad faith

I didn't say you did, I asked you if you agreed that Brexit will only benefit the rich. I also asked you if you believe that's what people who voted leave voted for. You've answered neither.
 
And no one has moved the goalposts, surely the whole idea of Brexit was to benefit the whole of the UK.  If it wasn't then an awful lot of people have been duped!

[belton rover]

I’ve ‘put forward’ the views of two retired university lecturers as their examples of the benefits of Brexit.
Your beef should be with them.

Sorry, I have said I agree with them? If anything they don't go far enough in explaining exactly who will benefit - and who will lose out - and why.

The question is do you agree with them - you posted it?

Wilts. I’m not sure if your first sentence is a statement or a question. I know it has a question mark, but still. Are you apologising for agreeing with them, or asking me if you said you agreed with them?

In answer to your last question, I absolutely agree that this is a benefit for some, which is why It’s on an absolutely genuine ‘Brexit Benefit Log’ thread.

Is it a benefit for me?
No
Is it a benefit for you?
I’ve no idea
Does this mean that if this is not a benefit for someone, then there are or will be no other benefits of Brexit for them?
Absolutely not.

[Ldr]

We've now left the EU so it's time to keep a list of all the benefits we achieve as we go forward.  We were promised some excellent trade deals and so far we've managed to copy across over 60 trade deals.  They aren't better than those we had as members of the EU, but at least they are positive achievements.
 
However  https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/first-blow-for-post-brexit-britain-as-australia-rejects-trade-deal/07/01/?fbclid=IwAR17nan5Ez3WNCLY7xK0oIACnYnxvQmEAooWfuv2IOpwqHUQQZQMNs1XiHI

We've now left the EU so it's time to keep a list of all the benefits we achieve as we go forward.  We were promised some excellent trade deals and so far we've managed to copy across over 60 trade deals.  They aren't better than those we had as members of the EU, but at least they are positive achievements.
 
However  https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/first-blow-for-post-brexit-britain-as-australia-rejects-trade-deal/07/01/?fbclid=IwAR17nan5Ez3WNCLY7xK0oIACnYnxvQmEAooWfuv2IOpwqHUQQZQMNs1XiHI

Nope just says benefits

[Not Now Kato]

We've now left the EU so it's time to keep a list of all the benefits we achieve as we go forward.  We were promised some excellent trade deals and so far we've managed to copy across over 60 trade deals.  They aren't better than those we had as members of the EU, but at least they are positive achievements.
 
However  https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/first-blow-for-post-brexit-britain-as-australia-rejects-trade-deal/07/01/?fbclid=IwAR17nan5Ez3WNCLY7xK0oIACnYnxvQmEAooWfuv2IOpwqHUQQZQMNs1XiHI

We've now left the EU so it's time to keep a list of all the benefits we achieve as we go forward.  We were promised some excellent trade deals and so far we've managed to copy across over 60 trade deals.  They aren't better than those we had as members of the EU, but at least they are positive achievements.
 
However  https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/first-blow-for-post-brexit-britain-as-australia-rejects-trade-deal/07/01/?fbclid=IwAR17nan5Ez3WNCLY7xK0oIACnYnxvQmEAooWfuv2IOpwqHUQQZQMNs1XiHI

Nope just says benefits

The use of the word 'we' throughout the above is a bit of a giveaway Ldr.  Unless your idea of 'we' is 'a select few'.  And you still haven't answered either of the questions I asked you.
 
By the way, a benefit is only a benefit when it's been achieved; just as a downside is only a downside when it happens. We've already seen a number of downsides even though we were promised by David Davies "There will be no downsides, only upsides", I'm taking upsides to mean benefits, (you may have a different definition?), seems he got it a bit wrong, would you say?

[Ldr]

As stated before I see not been in the drive to a federal Europe a benefit. That has happened, you disagree so you dismiss it. A benefit for one is not necessarily a benefit for others as is the case at every election. I am happy

[BillyStubbsTears]

Quite a bizarre turn this discussion has taken.

Presumably, if we passed a law legalising murder, folk on here would maintain that it benefited murderers and call it "moving the goalposts" if someone asked whether it benefited the country as a whole.

[albie]

People getting hot under the collar for little reason.

I sometimes post a link because it adds to the debate, but it does not mean I endorse everything within the link.
Occasionally it is helpful to consider other interpretations.

Belton posted an interesting link, one which argues against much of what he has said on here before.
I find that commendable, and shows a willingness to address his own perceptions.

This board would be a better place if others took a leaf from his book, and did the same sometimes.

[belton rover]

Not as bizarre as your analogy,Billy
There are probably thousands upon thousands of areas in life that will be affected one way or another by Brexit.
You and others have decided that because the link I put up doesn’t benefit everyone in the UK, then either it is not a benefit or it proves that the only benefit of Brexit is for the rich.
Both arguments are nonsense unless, of course, you ‘move the goalposts’ by changing the purpose of the thread to ‘Benefits of Brexit Log but only benefits that benefit every single person in the UK in exactly the same way’.
Of which there will probably be none.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Belton.

Yet again you misrepresent what I've said in here. It's borderline obsessional, this insistence of yours if putting words into my mouth.

Please re-read this exchange and reflect on the thought process that lead you to conclude that I have said anything that "proves that the only benefit of Brexit is for the rich" or that I am "changing the purpose of the thread to ‘Benefits of Brexit Log but only benefits that benefit every single person in the UK in exactly the same way’."

I have said numerous times that I accept that Brexit will be of benefit to the capital owners, so I have no issue with that. My question was whether that is a good thing or a bad thing for the country as a whole.

I'd quite happily discuss that with anyone, but it's rather difficult when the response is (yet) another rabid as hominem attack entirely misrepresenting what I've actually said. Again.

My "analogy" wasn't an "analogy" by the way. It was a rhetorical device to establish a truth. In this case, the point I was establishing was that, clearly, an event can benefit a small and destructive part of society while greatly disadvantaging the vast majority. The question that then raises is: is it sensible to call that a "benefit"?

[belton rover]

Belton.

Yet again you misrepresent what I've said in here. It's borderline obsessional, this insistence of yours if putting words into my mouth.

Please re-read this exchange and reflect on the thought process that lead you to conclude that I have said anything that "proves that the only benefit of Brexit is for the rich" or that I am "changing the purpose of the thread to ‘Benefits of Brexit Log but only benefits that benefit every single person in the UK in exactly the same way’."

I have said numerous times that I accept that Brexit will be of benefit to the capital owners, so I have no issue with that. My question was whether that is a good thing or a bad thing for the country as a whole.

I'd quite happily discuss that with a home, but it's rather difficult when the response is (yet) another rabid as hominem attack entirely misrepresenting what I've actually said. Again.

Right on cue.
And utter garbage.

[BillyStubbsTears]

So you stand by the words that you have put in my mouth once again Belton? Really? Because I've re-read the entire exchange and I don't see anything that justifies that.

[belton rover]

I do not care what you think Billy. Read it again a thousand times and you will only ever read what you want to read.
I’ve put no words in your mouth.
As for ad hominem attacks - I get that it’s your buzz phrase at the moment, but please, use it correctly or not at all.

[wilts rover]

I’ve ‘put forward’ the views of two retired university lecturers as their examples of the benefits of Brexit.
Your beef should be with them.

Sorry, I have said I agree with them? If anything they don't go far enough in explaining exactly who will benefit - and who will lose out - and why.

The question is do you agree with them - you posted it?

Wilts. I’m not sure if your first sentence is a statement or a question. I know it has a question mark, but still. Are you apologising for agreeing with them, or asking me if you said you agreed with them?

In answer to your last question, I absolutely agree that this is a benefit for some, which is why It’s on an absolutely genuine ‘Brexit Benefit Log’ thread.

Is it a benefit for me?
No
Is it a benefit for you?
I’ve no idea
Does this mean that if this is not a benefit for someone, then there are or will be no other benefits of Brexit for them?
Absolutely not.

Yes it is a question Belton as your 'beef should be with them' post was posted in response to my earlier post and totally misrepresents it.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Belton.

I'm confused. If you genuinely don't care what I think, why on earth would you write this:

"You and others have decided that because the link I put up doesn’t benefit everyone in the UK, then either it is not a benefit or it proves that the only benefit of Brexit is for the rich.
Both arguments are nonsense unless, of course, you ‘move the goalposts’ by changing the purpose of the thread to ‘Benefits of Brexit Log but only benefits that benefit every single person in the UK in exactly the same way’."

I haven't said any of those things. So those comments can only come from what you think I think. There is no other possible explanation.

So, once again, an exchange with you spirals into you not engaging with what I actually say, but arguing with what you reckon I think. Over and over again.

[belton rover]

Let me rephrase, Billy, to hopefully make it clear.
I don’t care what you think about me or this topic after you started to play the ‘ad hominem’ card.

[Bentley Bullet]

 Ad hominem means something that is directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.

I wonder what it's called when, like in my case, it's directed against a person BECAUSE OF THE WAY they maintain their position?

[belton rover]

I’ve ‘put forward’ the views of two retired university lecturers as their examples of the benefits of Brexit.
Your beef should be with them.

Sorry, I have said I agree with them? If anything they don't go far enough in explaining exactly who will benefit - and who will lose out - and why.

The question is do you agree with them - you posted it?

Wilts. I’m not sure if your first sentence is a statement or a question. I know it has a question mark, but still. Are you apologising for agreeing with them, or asking me if you said you agreed with them?

In answer to your last question, I absolutely agree that this is a benefit for some, which is why It’s on an absolutely genuine ‘Brexit Benefit Log’ thread.

Is it a benefit for me?
No
Is it a benefit for you?
I’ve no idea
Does this mean that if this is not a benefit for someone, then there are or will be no other benefits of Brexit for them?
Absolutely not.

Yes it is a question Belton as your 'beef should be with them' post was posted in response to my earlier post and totally misrepresents it.

Now I’m really confused.
The ‘I’ve put forward’ post was for Billy. I thought I’d made that clear by quoting Billy’s ‘I’ve put forward’ within a post directly addressed to me.
I’m sorry if you missed this in your eagerness to stick the boot in.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Belton.

It wasn't a "card". It was an observation of your approach.

I was discussing the issue that you had raised. You responded by attacking me for saying a whole lot of things I hadn't said. That's the very definition of an ad hominem attack, albeit not a very skillful one, because, having no basis in fact, it is easy to rebut. Which is what I did, although you seem to have no interest in that.

[belton rover]

Billy. I didn’t. Read everything again and reflect. Or don’t. But either way, please stop this witch hunt.

[Not Now Kato]

As stated before I see not been in the drive to a federal Europe a benefit. That has happened, you disagree so you dismiss it. A benefit for one is not necessarily a benefit for others as is the case at every election. I am happy

The only time I've seen mention of a 'Federal Europe' is in the right wing media. Given that each member state has it's own sovereignty, (though the right wing media would wrongly have you believe otherwise), and given that the current structure and 'rules' of the EU preclude such a thing happening, what you perceive as a benefit is in your mind only at this time. Yes, things may change in the future, but it would require the consent of each and every member state government for it to happen.
 
Talking about right wing media, here's a list of the lies about the EU that have been spread by them over the last 20 years or so....
 
https://tompride.wordpress.com/2017/12/05/see-20-years-of-fake-news-about-eu-by-uk-press-vote-for-your-favourite-here/
 
Notice which papers are spreading them?
 
Do you believe ANY of these lies?  Oh, I forgot, silly me, you don't seem to want to answer questions!

[Ldr]

Given its a private blog (and none of the links contained in it seem to work for me) I cant answer. What I do find is that blogs are trusted by ppl who feel the same as the blogger regardless of provenance

[wilts rover]

I’ve ‘put forward’ the views of two retired university lecturers as their examples of the benefits of Brexit.
Your beef should be with them.

Sorry, I have said I agree with them? If anything they don't go far enough in explaining exactly who will benefit - and who will lose out - and why.

The question is do you agree with them - you posted it?

Wilts. I’m not sure if your first sentence is a statement or a question. I know it has a question mark, but still. Are you apologising for agreeing with them, or asking me if you said you agreed with them?

In answer to your last question, I absolutely agree that this is a benefit for some, which is why It’s on an absolutely genuine ‘Brexit Benefit Log’ thread.

Is it a benefit for me?
No
Is it a benefit for you?
I’ve no idea
Does this mean that if this is not a benefit for someone, then there are or will be no other benefits of Brexit for them?
Absolutely not.

Yes it is a question Belton as your 'beef should be with them' post was posted in response to my earlier post and totally misrepresents it.

Now I’m really confused.
The ‘I’ve put forward’ post was for Billy. I thought I’d made that clear by quoting Billy’s ‘I’ve put forward’ within a post directly addressed to me.
I’m sorry if you missed this in your eagerness to stick the boot in.

It doesn't mention Billy and it is directly below a post of mine.

My eagerness to 'stick the boot' in relates to a post that appears to be aimed at me. That why I asked a question - which now is deemed 'sticking the boot in'.

[belton rover]

Wilts. I’ve clearly explained why it’s clear you made an error. Why can’t you just accept that? It’s no big deal. Just acknowledge you got it wrong.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Another thought experiment.

The customs checks that have come into place between GB and NI are increasing sectarian tensions and raising the profile of people associated with unionist paramilitaries.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/brexit-northern-ireland-sea-border-loyalist-b1797786.html%3famp

Mr Campbell here is having his profile as a community spokesman lifted by this. Presumably we must accept that as a "benefit" of Brexit because he is benefiting from it?

[belton rover]

Another thought experiment.

The customs checks that have come into place between GB and NI are increasing sectarian tensions and raising the profile of people associated with unionist paramilitaries.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/brexit-northern-ireland-sea-border-loyalist-b1797786.html%3famp

Mr Campbell here is having his profile as a community spokesman lifted by this. Presumably we must accept that as a "benefit" of Brexit because he is benefiting from it?

Really quite embarrassing now.

[Not Now Kato]

Given its a private blog (and none of the links contained in it seem to work for me) I cant answer. What I do find is that blogs are trusted by ppl who feel the same as the blogger regardless of provenance

The links in the blog are to a publication by the EU themselves in response to the lies told in the British Press. You can actually follow ALL the links by selecting the 'See All Versions of this archives page' and selecting any of the links listed.  For instance....
 
https://wayback.archive-it.org/11980/20191004102143/https://blogs.ec.europa.eu/ECintheUK/
 
It's all there, but you only have to see the main topics to understand how the British Press have been used to manipulate people, straight bananas ring a bell? Or was it cucumbers? The links are there to be followed if you are concerned about being lied to. Of course, if you're not then no wonder we're in the mess we are!