Ched Evans to sign for oldham

[The Red Baron]

I don't object in principle to the idea of Evans training with a club pending the outcome of the appeal process. The problem is that people assume that once he trains with a club he is likely to sign for them soon. Hence few clubs will be willing to allow him to train with them at the moment.

[Lipsy]

The Oldham cause intrigues me. I guess their main stand sponsors weren't involved with the club when they signed convicted killer Lee Hughes?

What makes Ched so special? Plenty of ex cons have come back into the game, convicted killers, convicted child killers.... Is it because he has shown no remorse? Which he would be foolish to do whilst the case is heading to appeal anyway...

All very bizarre.

Social media happened. It's as simple as that. Moreover, I don't think that using past cases helps in any way; we change/adapt/evolve. I can, however, see the FA bowing to pressure and changing its stance on ex-convicts soon enough - it's probably for the best and might act as a deterrent. I do wonder what will happen IF CE manages to get his conviction overturned...

[BillyStubbsTears]

If his conviction is overturned, I sincerely hope that there is no orchestrated campaign against him joining any club. That would be extremely worrying.

[IDM]

If he wins the appeal, I for one would have no big objections to him joining any club. 

He may still be unpopular with some supporters because even if eventually found not guilty of rape, he still put himself in that situation - and rightly or wrongly, some mud will stick.

[Askern_reds]

Just wondering? If a woman claims rape and the man found not guilty? Or if a man convicted and then wins retrial? Like Evans for example his sentence 5 years shouldn't the woman recieve the same sentence

[Lipsy]

I just meant in terms of the way the press continues to hound CE, mostly - and sadly - because "hot" news generates all-important clicks to websites. I don't think that there's much more that can be said about CE that hasn't been covered already: we know it's a vile crime he's been convicted of, and we know he's unrepentant, etc etc...

Of course, he could have just kept it in his pants/stop trying to play football until - and IF - he is successful in his attempt to get his conviction overturned.

[IDM]

Just wondering? If a woman claims rape and the man found not guilty? Or if a man convicted and then wins retrial? Like Evans for example his sentence 5 years shouldn't the woman recieve the same sentence

I think it is more complicated than that - would a potential charge be perverting the course of justice, with a different sentencing structure?

Anyway, from what I have read about the Evans case, it was just as much Evans' own evidence and that of the police etc that secured the conviction, not necessarily the woman complaining?  Maybe it could be the justice system at fault - not the woman?

That is all conjecture though.

[Lipsy]

Woman in question would be covered, I would have thought. Wasn't even aware that she had been raped and doesn't remember the rape at all. There was no physical evidence to suggest she had been raped; it was only CE's admitting that sex had taken place when questioned that led to the trial/proceedings. I am working from memory here, mind.

[Askern_reds]

Like you say mud sticks? So why should a woman walk scot free for a false claim, if such a procedure in place it may stop a lot of men been persecuted,

[IDM]

Like you say mud sticks? So why should a woman walk scot free for a false claim, if such a procedure in place it may stop a lot of men been persecuted,

But also the threat of punishment for making a "false claim" may deter some genuine victims from reporting a rape, where there is insufficient evidence (apart from the victim's word) to prove a case to a jury.

[Lipsy]

Like you say mud sticks? So why should a woman walk scot free for a false claim, if such a procedure in place it may stop a lot of men been persecuted,

But in this instance the woman in questioned made no claim of rape, and - again, as far as I am aware - could offer no evidence that she had been raped as she had no memory of the event.

[DonnyOsmond]

Both Ched and Clayton said they asked if Ched could "have a go" and she said yes. They can't remember which one asked her though, which each saying the other asked.

[normal rules]

The prosecution heard that Evans has already pre booked the room at the premier inn before McDonald had even met the girl.

Plus Evans chose to take two associates with him who were in position outside the room filming from outside on their mobile phones.

Plus Evans left via the fire exit post incident.

It's no wonder the jury came to their verdict.

He may not be a rapist in the purest sense of the word, but there were distinct elements of sexual predatory nature in his actions, and that of McDonald to an extent.

But he's a footballer, they get loads of money so it's ok???

[Askern_reds]

So are we saying football players not targets? How many av had claims against them ?

[Lipsy]

I would hope that, if I were to face criminal prosecution, my conviction would be based on cold, hard facts, rather than the view that I am a despicable, low-life prick... I am in no way condoning CE's actions, but he isn't the first footballer to take his mates along for a show...

I am sure that there was more to his conviction than that, tbh. The above suggests that he was pretty intent on having sex, but it doesn't prove rape.

[BobG]

Lol Lipsy! I hope the same as you. But, remind me, exactly who would be sitting on the jury?

BobG

[wilts rover]

Lipsy, it seems to have been forgotten by the team of amateur Miss Marples who have posted on this and other threads about Evans, that the appeal Evans is currently putting together against his conviction is actually his second appeal. So currently he has been found guilty by a judge and jury and then by a team of three judges who have scruitinised the verdict.

The jury had to make decisions on two key issues:
Was the woman in any fit state to give consent to sexual intercourse?
Did Evans lie?

CCTV evidence, the taxi driver, the night porter and the medical reports showed she was extremly drunk.
Evans lied to book the room and he lied to get the key for the room.

You make your own mind up about the rest. This is the report of the first appeal.

https://www.crimeline.info/case/r-v-ched-evans-chedwyn-evans

[Askern_reds]

If we're miss marples  who are you Bergerac ?  Pmsl if she wasn't in no fit state to consent who's fault that? but she was in a fit state to go to the hotel? must av thought she going for a game of scrable

[Glyn_Wigley]

If we're miss marples  who are you Bergerac ?  Pmsl if she wasn't in no fit state to consent who's fault that? but she was in a fit state to go to the hotel? must av thought she going for a game of scrable

Being in no fit state to consent is her fault, obviously. But when someone has sex with someone they know is in no fit state to consent to the sex, whose fault is that? Hers?

[wilts rover]

If we're miss marples  who are you Bergerac ?  Pmsl if she wasn't in no fit state to consent who's fault that? but she was in a fit state to go to the hotel? must av thought she going for a game of scrable

Glad you find it funny.

[Askern_reds]

How's he suppose to no if she dosent ?was he pissed aswell ?

[Wiltshire Exile]

Woman in question would be covered, I would have thought. Wasn't even aware that she had been raped and doesn't remember the rape at all. There was no physical evidence to suggest she had been raped; it was only CE's admitting that sex had taken place when questioned that led to the trial/proceedings. I am working from memory here, mind.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: "The girl was too drunk to consent. Evans had sex without her consent. Get it? No consent = RAPE. How much more do you want it spelt out?

And again:"The jury believed her story, and found Evans guilty. Read my lips: "The jury believed her."
He was found guilty beyond all reasonable doubt. In a criminal case this is what defines whether the defendant is guilty or not.

   

[Askern_reds]

 And was you there ? No

[silent majority]

Askern, do you have any daughters?

[Wiltshire Exile]

And was you there ? No

Is that supposed to be a serious question?.....................thought not.

[wilts rover]

The jury was directed as follows: "When you come back .... you will be asked to return separate verdicts in respect of each of the two defendants. Accordingly, when you retire you must consider the case, that is to say the evidence for and against each of the two defendants separately. Whilst there is a considerable overlap in that evidence, the evidence is not identical, and whilst your verdicts may very well be the same in the case, they might be different. The important thing for you to remember is your approach to the case for and against the defendants must be considered separately."

Given that direction, it was open to the jury to convict both defendants, to acquit both defendants, or to convict one and not the other defendant. That was the point of a joint trial in which separate verdicts were to be returned. It was open to the jury to consider that even if the complainant did not, in fact, consent to sexual intercourse with either of the two men, that in the light of his part in what happened -- the meeting in the street and so on -- McDonald may reasonably have believed that the complainant had consented to sexual activity with him, and at the same time concluded that the applicant knew perfectly well that she had not consented to sexual activity with him (the applicant). The circumstances in which each of the two men came to be involved in the sexual activity was quite different; so indeed were the circumstances in which they left her. Those were matters entirely open to the jury; there was no inconsistency.

https://www.crimeline.info/case/r-v-ched-evans-chedwyn-evans

[Askern_reds]

Yes I have 2 actually and if they behaved like that I'd go up the f**king wall ? None of us there so none of us can say what did or didnt happen, but I no one thing she didn't help her self ? And no one as answered yet because nothing been said how drunk was Evans ?

[BobG]

So as we weren't there he's innocent? Ok. Right. I'll remember that next time I shoot someone.

BobG

[Lipsy]

Lipsy, it seems to have been forgotten by the team of amateur Miss Marples who have posted on this and other threads about Evans, that the appeal Evans is currently putting together against his conviction is actually his second appeal. So currently he has been found guilty by a judge and jury and then by a team of three judges who have scruitinised the verdict.

The jury had to make decisions on two key issues:
Was the woman in any fit state to give consent to sexual intercourse?
Did Evans lie?

CCTV evidence, the taxi driver, the night porter and the medical reports showed she was extremly drunk.
Evans lied to book the room and he lied to get the key for the room.

You make your own mind up about the rest. This is the report of the first appeal.

https://www.crimeline.info/case/r-v-ched-evans-chedwyn-evans

The first appeal was denied on the grounds that there was no new evidence, that the trial was held appropriately and the sentence was also appropriate. Nothing more than that.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Askern

If you got paralytic on a lads night out and a drunk bloke f***ed you up the arse, would you consider that to be rape? Or would you blame yourself for putting yourself in that position?