Brexit Party Leaflets

[BillyStubbsTears]

No. We're not in circular arguments.

BB questions whether things will improve after we leave.

I suggest he looks at what professional economist who have been right consistently predict what will happen.

BB says it doesn't matter.

That's not circular. That's changing tracks when the argument you start off with runs into the buffers.

But, if we're changing tracks on the discussion then fine. Regarding respect for democracy, I have it in bucket loads. Which is why I'm so annoyed about the Leave campaigns not having it in 2016, when they broke the law on a huge scale. I am continually amazed that no Leave supporter seems in the least bit concerned about that.

I'm also amazed that they don't seem to be upset about being treated as thick by the prominent Leave supporters who told us one thing before the vote, then switched their arguments 180 degrees once they'd suckered people into voting the way they wanted.

Strange thing, this respect for democracy. Almost as if the only thing that matters is winning because it means the other side lost.

[Herbert Anchovy]

It's because so many people think this country is already well and truly f**ked that they voted Brexit in the first place.

And you believe Brexit will unf**k it? If you can't see that Brexit will only make it worse then there's no help for you BB.

I hope so because that is what the majority voted for. I guess I'm just one of the majority of people with no common sense.

Well the last couple of years of reduced growth combined with Austerity is what would be coming if we do leave so at least everyone will be used to it.

Haven’t we faced austerity and low economic growth while a member of the EU?

True, and that's with the benefit of being a member of the most wealthy trading bloc on the planet, I wonder what it will be like without that support, HA

Or you could argue that EU membership was largely ineffective and we’d have faced those issues whether or not we were members. I can’t pretend to know enough about it to have too much of a definite opinion one way or another. The only thing I do clearly recall was the EU supporting the UK government in its talks to buy cheap imported European coal in the early 90’s after it had decided to close down a large number of pits. I can’t see that the EU helped much there...

[Bentley Bullet]

The referendum was never legally binding and Brexit should never have happended on the back of such a small margin. MPs should have stood their ground and said "we respect the referendum result, obviously people aren't happy with the EU over certain issues so we will commit to enforcing change from within, oh and we're not going to f**king leave because we don't want to see the country f**ked"

How could they have said they respected the referendum result but as far as carrying it out you can f**k off, we ain't leaving?

It was a democratic vote to see what the country wanted. It wasn't a question that the public could get wrong by voting leave against politicians wishes. The government gambled and lost because they were out of touch with public opinion. The result of the majority was the answer, and that should be the end of it.

[Axholme Lion]

The referendum was never legally binding and Brexit should never have happended on the back of such a small margin. MPs should have stood their ground and said "we respect the referendum result, obviously people aren't happy with the EU over certain issues so we will commit to enforcing change from within, oh and we're not going to f**king leave because we don't want to see the country f**ked"

How could they have said they respected the referendum result but as far as carrying it out you can f**k off, we ain't leaving?

It was a democratic vote to see what the country wanted. It wasn't a question that the public could get wrong by voting leave against politicians wishes. The government gambled and lost because they were out of touch with public opinion. The result of the majority was the answer, and that should be the end of it.

It's a shame no-one in parliament can see this. They just want to keep themselves on the gravy train.

[Glyn_Wigley]

It's because so many people think this country is already well and truly f**ked that they voted Brexit in the first place.

And you believe Brexit will unf**k it? If you can't see that Brexit will only make it worse then there's no help for you BB.

I hope so because that is what the majority voted for. I guess I'm just one of the majority of people with no common sense.

Well the last couple of years of reduced growth combined with Austerity is what would be coming if we do leave so at least everyone will be used to it.

Haven’t we faced austerity and low economic growth while a member of the EU?

True, and that's with the benefit of being a member of the most wealthy trading bloc on the planet, I wonder what it will be like without that support, HA

Or you could argue that EU membership was largely ineffective and we’d have faced those issues whether or not we were members. I can’t pretend to know enough about it to have too much of a definite opinion one way or another. The only thing I do clearly recall was the EU supporting the UK government in its talks to buy cheap imported European coal in the early 90’s after it had decided to close down a large number of pits. I can’t see that the EU helped much there...

So, should the EU have supported the democratically elected government of the UK as it did - or work against the democratically elected UK government and try and impose their own policy on the UK...like the sort of organisation a lot of Brexiters accuse it of being?

[DonnyOsmond]

The EU are back to being Nazis again. Last week they were the USSR. Next week they'll be that weird cult off the Wicker Man. I can't keep up!

It's the same thing. A totalitarian regime trying to bind nations with nothing in common with each other together under one banner and destroy and remnants of national identity.

What is our national identity? We're Romans, Vikings, Normans, etc who have a German, Danish, Greek monarchy.

[Axholme Lion]

The EU are back to being Nazis again. Last week they were the USSR. Next week they'll be that weird cult off the Wicker Man. I can't keep up!

It's the same thing. A totalitarian regime trying to bind nations with nothing in common with each other together under one banner and destroy and remnants of national identity.

What is our national identity? We're Romans, Vikings, Normans, etc who have a German, Danish, Greek monarchy.

I think you're making a silly argument going back 1,000 years. Much the same could be said of most countries in Europe.

[bobjimwilly]

The referendum was never legally binding and Brexit should never have happended on the back of such a small margin. MPs should have stood their ground and said "we respect the referendum result, obviously people aren't happy with the EU over certain issues so we will commit to enforcing change from within, oh and we're not going to f**king leave because we don't want to see the country f**ked"

How could they have said they respected the referendum result but as far as carrying it out you can f**k off, we ain't leaving?

Politicians do it all the time, saying that they respect what the people are telling them to do, and then go and do something else.
Like with the local elections, and all the pro-brexit parties losing out massively to the pro-remain candidates, and we get May and Corbyn both telling us they respect what the public has said and will press along with Brexit?!?!?

[wing commander]

It's because so many people think this country is already well and truly f**ked that they voted Brexit in the first place.

And you believe Brexit will unf**k it? If you can't see that Brexit will only make it worse then there's no help for you BB.

That's your opinion Kato but its a typical remainers response...

I voted Brexit,not on what Johnson or Farage said or immigration..I voted Brexit because as a business owner I was tired of seeing my industry crushed under eu regulations,grants we were paying towards for setting up new factory's in the eu,who don't play by the same rules as we do on workers rights,wages etc etc..it's two one sided and I was tired of having to tell people they were losing there jobs because yet another manufacturing plant had opened up in Poland or Romania offering the same product at much cheaper prices because they didn't have to pay the same level of wages or have the same health and safety etc etc....

Couple of questions WC, do you see things being easier to set up a new factory inside the EU if the UK or just England is not in the EU and from your comments regarding health safety and wages would you look to reduce all of them if we go our own way?

I will answer those gladly Sydney.First of all you do not scrimp on health and safety of your employee's,nobody comes to work to get hurt and it's priority number 1  and I also wouldn't dream of reducing anybody's weekly wage.However you cant get away from the fact that these things cost a lot of money to run..Thats fine if your on a eu level playing field but your not..I've got 15 British and 2 polish welders here.Before I wrote this I popped out into the factory and asked him what he would expect to be paid in Poland for the same job he does here.It was below our minimum wage infact about 40% less than he earns here...

    So when the eu pays grants to build new factorys with new equipment which we've contributed to, and then runs it with a 40% less wage bill and little regulations to health and safety you simply cant compete...The end result is you lose contracts and then you have to drag people into your office and say "sorry Fridays your last day" That's reality

   As for the second part of your question,no I don't think we will be better off short term but without our big contribution less will be built and without the incentives they receive some of these so called big british manufacturers will start buying British again..In fact I've spoken and quoted to a few companies currently buying from the Eu who would then look to bring work back in house in the UK.i'm under no illusion that short term there will be pain but for me it's worth it...

  I appreciate that's looking at it from my own circumstances and I'm sure some could pick holes in it all day long in theory,but the above is not theory it's reality to whats happened over the last decade in my field of business...

  On a side note even though we are still in the EU and still paying contributions.Grant money coming the other way has all but stopped.Yesteday I spoke to a director of one of the biggest groundwork companies in the Uk who was moaning that they had 3 huge projects on hold because grant money originally awarded for there construction was seeming being delayed for a variety of reasons,and when he sorts those they give him more reasons..He's in no doubt it's because we are leaving and they want to avoid paying them...Meanwhile we continually pay money in and they are gladly accepting it...

[wilts rover]

Fascinating stats.

Despite what some are trying to make us believe the Brexit Party are not the party of the working class. Labour has the largest support among people with an income of under £20k - the Brexit Party are the party of choice for those with an income of over £40k.

Help the rich - vote for Farage

https://twitter.com/LeftieStats/status/1128657610436227072

[wilts rover]

Fascinating stats.

Despite what some are trying to make us believe the Brexit Party are not the party of the working class. Labour has the largest support among people with an income of under £20k - the Brexit Party are the party of choice for those with an income of over £40k.

Help the rich - vote for Farage

https://twitter.com/LeftieStats/status/1128657610436227072

And what do you know, its not just rich people, its rich people over 55 (like Farage himself then)

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-party-poll-nigel-farage-european-elections-voters-a8913371.html

Help the elderly rich get richer - vote for Farage

[DonnyOsmond]

The EU are back to being Nazis again. Last week they were the USSR. Next week they'll be that weird cult off the Wicker Man. I can't keep up!

It's the same thing. A totalitarian regime trying to bind nations with nothing in common with each other together under one banner and destroy and remnants of national identity.

What is our national identity? We're Romans, Vikings, Normans, etc who have a German, Danish, Greek monarchy.

I think you're making a silly argument going back 1,000 years. Much the same could be said of most countries in Europe.

And Brexiteers are oddly obsessed with WW2. Neither have anything to do with today politics.

[Bentley Bullet]

Neither has WW3, but Cameron, along with other Remoaners have been obsessed with using it to scaremonger over Brexit.

[BillyStubbsTears]

The EU are back to being Nazis again. Last week they were the USSR. Next week they'll be that weird cult off the Wicker Man. I can't keep up!

It's the same thing. A totalitarian regime trying to bind nations with nothing in common with each other together under one banner and destroy and remnants of national identity.

What is our national identity? We're Romans, Vikings, Normans, etc who have a German, Danish, Greek monarchy.

Or, in the case of my kids, Irish and Italian thrown into the mix.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Neither has WW3, but Cameron, along with other Remoaners have been obsessed with using it to scaremonger over Brexit.

No BB. They didn't.

Various people pointed out the undeniable fact that Europe (Britain very much included) has historically been the most dangerous place in the world, that an explicit aim of the EU has always been to attempt to get us beyond the competitive nationalism that gave us centuries of war, and to point out the dangers of resurgent nationalism.

Anyone who says that Brexit would lead directly to WWIII is an idiot. Anyone who ignores the job that the EEC/EC/EU has done in cementing peace and democracy across Europe is an even bigger idiot.

[BillyStubbsTears]

The EU are back to being Nazis again. Last week they were the USSR. Next week they'll be that weird cult off the Wicker Man. I can't keep up!

It's the same thing. A totalitarian regime trying to bind nations with nothing in common with each other together under one banner and destroy and remnants of national identity.

What is our national identity? We're Romans, Vikings, Normans, etc who have a German, Danish, Greek monarchy.

I think you're making a silly argument going back 1,000 years. Much the same could be said of most countries in Europe.

Go on then.

YOU introduced the idea of national identity. You define it then.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Well this could be fun.

https://www.ft.com/content/a9caa9de-766f-11e9-bbad-7c18c0ea0201

[Bentley Bullet]

Neither has WW3, but Cameron, along with other Remoaners have been obsessed with using it to scaremonger over Brexit.

No BB. They didn't.

Various people pointed out the undeniable fact that Europe (Britain very much included) has historically been the most dangerous place in the world, that an explicit aim of the EU has always been to attempt to get us beyond the competitive nationalism that gave us centuries of war, and to point out the dangers of resurgent nationalism.

Anyone who says that Brexit would lead directly to WWIII is an idiot. Anyone who ignores the job that the EEC/EC/EU has done in cementing peace and democracy across Europe is an even bigger idiot.

 I never suggested anyone said Brexit would lead directly to WW3. I said it was used as scaremongering by Cameron, and other Remainers when they said it could bring us closer to a potential WW3.

[wilts rover]

Same story here but you dont have to pay to view it

https://www.politico.eu/article/boris-johnson-could-be-prosecuted-over-brexit-bus-claim/

[Herbert Anchovy]

It's because so many people think this country is already well and truly f**ked that they voted Brexit in the first place.

And you believe Brexit will unf**k it? If you can't see that Brexit will only make it worse then there's no help for you BB.

I hope so because that is what the majority voted for. I guess I'm just one of the majority of people with no common sense.

Well the last couple of years of reduced growth combined with Austerity is what would be coming if we do leave so at least everyone will be used to it.

Haven’t we faced austerity and low economic growth while a member of the EU?

True, and that's with the benefit of being a member of the most wealthy trading bloc on the planet, I wonder what it will be like without that support, HA

Or you could argue that EU membership was largely ineffective and we’d have faced those issues whether or not we were members. I can’t pretend to know enough about it to have too much of a definite opinion one way or another. The only thing I do clearly recall was the EU supporting the UK government in its talks to buy cheap imported European coal in the early 90’s after it had decided to close down a large number of pits. I can’t see that the EU helped much there...

So, should the EU have supported the democratically elected government of the UK as it did - or work against the democratically elected UK government and try and impose their own policy on the UK...like the sort of organisation a lot of Brexiters accuse it of being?

That’s not the point as you well know. The insinuation was that the EU somehow protects the UK from economic difficulties. History tells us that’s not the case and indeed some of their actions (being a capitalist institution) have had a detrimental affect on the nations labour market.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Neither has WW3, but Cameron, along with other Remoaners have been obsessed with using it to scaremonger over Brexit.

No BB. They didn't.

Various people pointed out the undeniable fact that Europe (Britain very much included) has historically been the most dangerous place in the world, that an explicit aim of the EU has always been to attempt to get us beyond the competitive nationalism that gave us centuries of war, and to point out the dangers of resurgent nationalism.

Anyone who says that Brexit would lead directly to WWIII is an idiot. Anyone who ignores the job that the EEC/EC/EU has done in cementing peace and democracy across Europe is an even bigger idiot.

 I never suggested anyone said Brexit would lead directly to WW3. I said it was used as scaremongering by Cameron, and other Remainers when they said it could bring us closer to a potential WW3.

And your point is?

Surely anything which leads to a resumption in competitive nationalism across Europe is, by definition, likely to lead to a less peaceful Europe?

[Bentley Bullet]

So you're against competitive nationism?

[BillyStubbsTears]

I'm against what it has always led to in Europe, yes, of course. Aren't you?

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Fascinating stats.

Despite what some are trying to make us believe the Brexit Party are not the party of the working class. Labour has the largest support among people with an income of under £20k - the Brexit Party are the party of choice for those with an income of over £40k.

Help the rich - vote for Farage

https://twitter.com/LeftieStats/status/1128657610436227072

Is 40k rich? I'd say not.

Question for others if we were out by now with May's deal would we be better off?

[Bentley Bullet]

I'm against what it has always led to in Europe, yes, of course. Aren't you?

Not as the reason for staying in the EU, no. Besides, we're not going to be competitive, are we? We're told we'll have no food on our shelves? Why would they think we're a threat?

[DonnyOsmond]

40k is a middle class salary. Brexit party is a middle class party.

[BillyStubbsTears]

BB

See, going back over the past 150 years,  these are the major European conflicts involving current EU countries.

Wars of Italian Unification
Wars of German Unification
Franco-Prussian War
1st, 2nd and 3rd Balkan Wars
WWI
Estonian War of Independence
Allies involvement in the Russian Civil War
Polish War of Independence
Lithuanian War of Independence
Latvia War of Independence
Polish-Lithuanian War
Polish-Soviet War
Hungarian-Romanian War
Greco-Turkish War
Czechoslovak-Hungarian War
Irish War of Independence
Spanish Civil War
WWII
Greek Civil War
Irish Troubles
Basque Troubles
Cypriot Civil War
Yugoslavian Civil War.

Notice a pattern?

Every single conflict commenced before the protagonists were members of the EU. No single conflict in Europe has ever been started by or in a country that is a member of the EU.

If you want to have a look, you'll find a similar story about revolutions and military could.

Draw your own conclusions.

[BillyStubbsTears]

BB
You're a smart lad, so I assume you're deliberately playing thick in not getting what "competitive" means here.

It's not about trying to run a better industry. It's about frictions between competing national interests. The ones that have led to wars every few years in Europe before the EU.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Well, well, well.

I know I'm preaching to the unconvertable, but this is quite something.

https://bylinetimes.com/2019/05/15/brexit-party-donations-farages-miracle-claims-do-not-add-up/

Read it. The punch line at the end should set even the hardest Farage fan questioning his honesty.

If you can't be bothered, the gist of the story is what I've posted about before. That something stinks to high f**king heaven about The Brexit Party's funding.

The party has a link from its website to an anonymous PayPal account for people to donate. And the anonymity means there's no way of checking whether the donors are genuine, True Brit supporters, or someone funnelling money in from....ooohhh, maybe Russia or somewhere.

Farage claimed that in the first 9 days after they launched the website, 60,000 people donated and became members. So this reporter has run traffic checks on the website and reckons that there were no more than 16,000 visitors in total to the website.

At that point, I'm wondering how trustworthy the traffic checks are. And I'm expecting the Brexit Party to say it's all a conspiracy story.

Which they did.

And they provided their own data of traffic to the website. Which shows 10s of thousands of visitors every day. They don't say where their data comes from. But it's their data, so I'm happy to trust it.

Except...oh yeah. For the nine days Farage was talking about, their data says precisely ZERO people visited the website.

Surely they're not so dismissive of their supporters' concerns for democracy that they can't even fake their own data correctly? Knowing that none of their supporters will give a f**k anyway?

[Not Now Kato]

It's because so many people think this country is already well and truly f**ked that they voted Brexit in the first place.

And you believe Brexit will unf**k it? If you can't see that Brexit will only make it worse then there's no help for you BB.

That's your opinion Kato but its a typical remainers response...

I voted Brexit,not on what Johnson or Farage said or immigration..I voted Brexit because as a business owner I was tired of seeing my industry crushed under eu regulations,grants we were paying towards for setting up new factory's in the eu,who don't play by the same rules as we do on workers rights,wages etc etc..it's two one sided and I was tired of having to tell people they were losing there jobs because yet another manufacturing plant had opened up in Poland or Romania offering the same product at much cheaper prices because they didn't have to pay the same level of wages or have the same health and safety etc etc....

Nope, it's a typical reality response, and it's not an opinion.
 
Do you genuinely think that your industry will be able to compete better outside the EU?  If so, how?  Pay your workers less than the Poles? Lower your health and safety standards below Romanians?
 
I'm still waiting for a leaver to tell me, backed with facts and figures, how we will be better off outside the EU.  Economists overwhelmingly agree that we'll be worse off, are you suggesting they're wrong? 
 
So exactly how are we, as a country, going to be better off WC. How is the lot of those on minimum wage, zero hour contracts, the unemployed going to improve?  Where is the money that, under the EU, goes to deprived areas going to come from, (yes, I know it's money that we as a country give to the EU in the first place), do you genuinely believe that the UK government will do for those areas what the EU currently does?
 
And tell me, how will our children and grand-children's education and job prospects be better outside the EU when the children and grandchildren of people in those countries in the EU can choose to study and ultimately work anywhere within it?