Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: colin cramb on August 15, 2013, 08:55:45 am
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Reading Tommy's interview in the DFP he says he wasn't offered a new contract after his ran out on the 31st of july, and was effectively working for free in pre season until the tuesday before the season started when Blackburn offered him a contract (also says its not a multi million pound contract)
Only when Blackburn offered him a deal and he'd had a medical did Rovers in return offer him a deal again stressing that its not about money as "I'll be on less than what I would have been had I stayed"
He goes on to say last season was the greatest of his career and it will take some beating and he really wanted to stay at Doncaster.
If this is true I can't believe we let him go, a great player who would be in our starting XI and if tied down would also command a decent transfer fee! Terrible management
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Always two sides to a story..................
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This is the same Tommy Spurr who told supporters at the Rossington game he had been offered a new contract?
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Yes, but I'm more inclined to believe tommy spurrs side of the story. Why would he lie. on the other hand Rovers have treated the fans APPALLINGLY this pre-season. the fans have been treated with contempt, and they wonder why the crowds are low.
Genuinely think its time for a regime change.
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Broomstick....If you would just like to pop down to planet earth I would appreciate it..We are a small club who have had fantastic success over the last ten years and are punching well above our weight and you want a regime change...I'm guessing you weren't around for the twenty years before that when we mainly were fishing about in the bottom half of Div 4 with only the odd bit of success here and there and dodging the taxman... :headbang: :headbang: :headbang:
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I've Been a fan for 20 years, I think it's you that needs to take the blinkers off. You've been brainwashed by the vsc. we are now a top level league 1/bottom level championship club. the past is the past. if what tommy spurr is saying is true, and I'm inclined to believe it over any thing the club or vsc director had to say, then it is appalling. looks like Rovers are treating the players as bad as the fans.
How the hell wasn't he offered a contract?!?? Answers please?!?!
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How have the club treated the fans appallingly?
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By treating them like mushrooms, and with contempt. no one really knows what's going on behind the scenes.
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So the 'meet the owners forums' and 'open day' didn't happen then?
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By treating them like mushrooms, and with contempt. no one really knows what's going on behind the scenes.
So you expect them to tell us the intricate details of a very delicate process while it's still ongoing?
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I've Been a fan for 20 years, I think it's you that needs to take the blinkers off. You've been brainwashed by the vsc. we are now a top level league 1/bottom level championship club. the past is the past. if what tommy spurr is saying is true, and I'm inclined to believe it over any thing the club or vsc director had to say, then it is appalling. looks like Rovers are treating the players as bad as the fans.
How the hell wasn't he offered a contract?!?? Answers please?!?!
I like your use of the word 'if'. Why on earth would you believe the word of an individual whom you don't personally know. Thank god your not a high court judge.
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So Tommy Spur tells everyone at the Rosso game he's been offered a contract, and then he tells everyone at the cricket match that he'll sign and is just waiting on the paperwork, and now a two Bob reporeter writes that Tommy was never offered a contract. So which one of Tommy's different story's do you believe Boomstick? I suspect it'll be the one that best suits your agenda!
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I really do not understand this belief that the fans need to know EVERYTHING that goes off behind the scenes. I think Rovers tell the fans a lot more than most clubs do, and certainly through IRWT and other initiatives they listen to and take on board the views of the fans a lot more than most. But then I'm a VSC director, so why would you listen to me?
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RR,
It's the mindset of quite a few rovers fans, they sit by their keyboards waiting for the opportunity to be negative about something, any opportunity is seized upon as they are desperate to find evidence of disrespect. Balanced view? Mature approach?
No, there just has to be a conspiracy somewhere.
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Change the regime that has twice took us to the second tier (which is increasingly like a Premiership 2 in my eyes) which we hadn't got to in 50 years, moved us to a new ground, started to run the stadium to a profit etc?
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Tommy Spurr told me in person he had the contract offer and it was just having time to sit with PD and sign.......now allegedly hes saying there was no contract.....so what did you say you believe?
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Tommy told me and my son at rosso that he was signing on the Monday and lots of others heard him to
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Boomstick, I would suggest that you apply for the stadium management position if you want to know everything.
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I suppose Tommy felt the need to justify why he left, it's an easy get out blaming some one else, especially blaming the club that gave him his greatest career moment to date! Tommy should have shown the club some respect instead of bleating to a two bob reporter that likes to stir some shit!
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Boomstick, I would suggest that you apply for the stadium management position if you want to know everything.
Wake up, my point is that we as fans literally know NOTHING.
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Boomstick, I would suggest that you apply for the stadium management position if you want to know everything.
Wake up, my point is that we as fans literally know NOTHING.
Not really. Most of what you were wanting to know, we couldn't know either because transfers hadn't been completed (yet we moaned when M'Voto went after we said we'd virtually signed him!) or because the takeover process was in motion, which as I say is too delicate to reveal all the details to fans surely.
#TinfoilHatBarmyArmy eh boomstick
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Boomstick, I would suggest that you apply for the stadium management position if you want to know everything.
Wake up, my point is that we as fans literally know NOTHING.
Have you bought your ticket yet for Friday's game, if not, why not, and you'd better tell us all when you do as we have a right to know eh????
No, we don't have the right to know nor do we need to know all the internal goings on at the club... Not knowing what goes on behind the scenes is not being treated appalingly. This club does engage with the fans, as others have said.
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Spurr should have signed a contract or been released a month before he left. Everything in pre season dragged on far too long. The fact his contract was left to expire was a joke.
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By treating them like mushrooms, and with contempt. no one really knows what's going on behind the scenes.
I'm sure the supporters of Coventry & Leeds Urinals would empathise with you on that point. Actually no, they'd probably tell you "You don't know you're born pal"!
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Silent Majority the VSC spin doctor.
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Silent Majority the VSC spin doctor.
Eh?
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Spurr should have signed a contract or been released a month before he left. Everything in pre season dragged on far too long. The fact his contract was left to expire was a joke.
I suspect it was left to expire was because we did not know which league we would be in and he would have been too expensive to spend another season in L1.
I do agree though with some of whats been said. We don't have anything like the squad at present that I was expecting given some of the quotes attributed to the Keepmoat over the summer.
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Silent Majority the VSC spin doctor.
You need to explain that one to me gaz.
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Spin Doctor-
Noun
A spokesperson employed to give a favorable interpretation of events to the media (fans) esp. on behalf of a political party (football club).
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Boomstick, I would suggest that you apply for the stadium management position if you want to know everything.
Wake up, my point is that we as fans literally know NOTHING.
Nothing? I thought we had at least three versons of Spurr's leaving, that's a hell of a nothing..!
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Spin Doctor-
Noun
A spokesperson employed to give a favorable interpretation of events to the media (fans) esp. on behalf of a political party (football club).
You've obviously missed all of SM's posts where he's been critical of the club.
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Silent Majority the VSC spin doctor.
You need to explain that one to me gaz.
He believes you are a member of a dodgy 1990's band?
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Silent Majority the VSC spin doctor.
You need to explain that one to me gaz.
He believes you are a member of a dodgy 1990's band?
Nah, he's much too pretty to be one of The Corrs!
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Spin Doctor-
Noun
A spokesperson employed to give a favorable interpretation of events to the media (fans) esp. on behalf of a political party (football club).
WOW!!! Let me tell you you do not know Martin at all, and I mean, at all! TOWING THE PARTY LINE.....never in my 54 years have I known Martin tow any line for anybody. You are so wrong! I feel the insult for him. :ohmy:
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RR,
It's the mindset of quite a few rovers fans, they sit by their keyboards waiting for the opportunity to be negative about something, any opportunity is seized upon as they are desperate to find evidence of disrespect. Balanced view? Mature approach?
No, there just has to be a conspiracy somewhere.
Yes, because this, on the other hand, is such a mature approach.
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So Tommy Spur tells everyone at the Rosso game he's been offered a contract, and then he tells everyone at the cricket match that he'll sign and is just waiting on the paperwork, and now a two Bob reporeter writes that Tommy was never offered a contract. So which one of Tommy's different story's do you believe Boomstick? I suspect it'll be the one that best suits your agenda!
Spurr...
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So Tommy Spur tells everyone at the Rosso game he's been offered a contract, and then he tells everyone at the cricket match that he'll sign and is just waiting on the paperwork, and now a two Boreporterer writes that Tommy was never offered a contract. So which one of Tommy's different story's do you believe Boomstick? I suspect it'll be the one that best suits your agenda!
Spurr...
Which one of Tommys three versions, What he told to Bald Rover personally, What he told to Vicar personally, or what a report in the Free Press says he told their reporter..................................
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Spin Doctor-
Noun
A spokesperson employed to give a favorable interpretation of events to the media (fans) esp. on behalf of a political party (football club).
Am I spinning for the club or the VSC then Gaz?
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Boomstick, I would suggest that you apply for the stadium management position if you want to know everything.
Wake up, my point is that we as fans literally know NOTHING.
Hi Boomstick,
After reading your concerns on here we have spoken to the club today who would like to invite you to the Keepmoat Stadium to sit down with some of the staff at the club and go through some of your concerns.
Thanks
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Exactly. You can't say you believe spurr when he's given 3 different sides to his story.
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Oh what a surprise Gazlaz in negative post shock....Same old clowns,its getting to the point were I simply wouldn't bother replying to these people Martyn...They just want to be antagonistic and really need to get a grip before they end up with no information at all...Quite frankly for some of them that's probably a good thing....I would suggest they look at the majority of replys on here and realise that there the only rotten apples in the barrel....
And broomstick I haven't been brainwashed,but I do have a lot better idea than you how much effort the directors put in to this to make the fans experience better,i also know the discussions that take place on the phone and at meetings with the club when things happen the vsc have issues with that effect the supporters ...A lot of which never even get to these boards...Although why they bother when they get such vitriol from supporters like you,amazes me...
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I reckon he was "offered" a contract with a view to this new investment coming in, with all the dilly dallying around with that an actual contract was never presented to him so "just waiting for the paperwork" would be acurate, so both parties can say they are not to blame. IMO this "investment" has buggered up our pre season/early season and we"ll do well to recover.
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And your also lucky that people like you have such tolerant Directors because if it were down to me,these boards would be much tougher moderated...I'm all for reasoned debate wether your vsc or not but insults and accusations with nothing more to go on than your own conspiracy theory's shouldn't be tolerated....
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Boomstick, I would suggest that you apply for the stadium management position if you want to know everything.
Wake up, my point is that we as fans literally know NOTHING.
I wouldn't judge everyone by your standards spadger.
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That wasn't aimed at you Cramb :-) I actually agree with all of that...
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Boomstick, I would suggest that you apply for the stadium management position if you want to know everything.
Wake up, my point is that we as fans literally know NOTHING.
Hi Boomstick,
After reading your concerns on here we have spoken to the club today who would like to invite you to the Keepmoat Stadium to sit down with some of the staff at the club and go through some of your concerns.
Thanks
BOOM!
Over to you Boomstick!
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But that would mean getting of your arse and trying to do something Filo rather than sitting behind your keyboard to slag off those that do....Don't hold your breath mate...
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But that would mean getting of your arse and trying to do something Filo rather than sitting behind your keyboard to slag off those that do....Don't hold your breath mate...
Do you want a ladder to get down off that horse?
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Why the long face?
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And there we are Phoenix thanks for proving the point...You want to debate any issues fine..I've had debates on here were by the end I've actualy changed my opinion on some things...
Or are cheap shots the best you can manage?????
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And there we are Phoenix thanks for proving the point...You want to debate any issues fine..I've had debates on here were by the end I've actualy changed my opinion on some things...
Or are cheap shots the best you can manage?????
Cheap shots?
Have you read your post that I quoted?!
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Yes point taken Phoenix and I apoligise....To be honest i'm just on the warpath this morning...For the last few weeks I and all the other directors have had to put up with so much abuse on here including some horrid pm's that just weren't nice...However as a Director I had to be carefull of what I said and to who and had to really bite my tounge...My stint as a director is now over so i'm free to respond and they wont get it so easy off me next time...but i'm big enough to apoligise when ive took something the wrong way so I have...
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Beep beep beep.
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I've never understood why some fans feel they need to know every miniscule thing that happens at their club. All I want to know is who's signed and who's left, when the fixtures and how much it'll cost me to get in. What else do you want to know ??
Perhaps the next time Mr Boomstick goes for a job interview we can all sit in on it...seems fair eh ?
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Spin Doctor-
Noun
A spokesperson employed to give a favorable interpretation of events to the media (fans) esp. on behalf of a political party (football club).
WOW!!! Let me tell you you do not know Martin at all, and I mean, at all! TOWING THE PARTY LINE.....never in my 54 years have I known Martin tow any line for anybody. You are so wrong! I feel the insult for him. :ohmy:
Why thank you!!
I'm sure Gavin and Shaun would support you on that, plus my numerous run-ins with the FA, the PL and FL means none of them would agree either.
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I've never understood why some fans feel they need to know every miniscule thing that happens at their club. All I want to know is who's signed and who's left, when the fixtures and how much it'll cost me to get in. What else do you want to know ??
Perhaps the next time Mr Boomstick goes for a job interview we can all sit in on it...seems fair eh ?
I thought I was the only one phew.
We don't need to know the ins and outs of contracts and to be honest I just cannot see why a football club like rovers would do that. I don't believe the spurr story one bit I'm afraid but it's irrelevant now he's gone it doesn't matter and he'll get no rousing reception from me tomorrow as if he wanted to stay he'd still be here.
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Without reading through the entire thread, which has turned into a typical 'Viking Chat' mess, I was just wondering if anyone could provide me with a link or some sort of proof that Spurr had said he'd been offered a contract and then that he was going to sign it?
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Can we have a full report on Boomstick's meeting with the club on here please
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Can we have a full report on Boomstick's meeting with the club on here please
There you go :thumbsup:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXBDwk5tFhs
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Or will the club just move on and concentrate on the players we have, or may be signing?
Spurr has gone - I'd rather talk about Robinson and Wabara, Wellens etc.,..
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Without reading through the entire thread, which has turned into a typical 'Viking Chat' mess, I was just wondering if anyone could provide me with a link or some sort of proof that Spurr had said he'd been offered a contract and then that he was going to sign it?
Why would there be proof? It was a conversation between him and supporters. Which was spoke about on here long before he jumped to Blackburn.
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I've never understood why some fans feel they need to know every miniscule thing that happens at their club. All I want to know is who's signed and who's left, when the fixtures and how much it'll cost me to get in. What else do you want to know ??
Perhaps the next time Mr Boomstick goes for a job interview we can all sit in on it...seems fair eh ?
I thought I was the only one phew.
We don't need to know the ins and outs of contracts and to be honest I just cannot see why a football club like rovers would do that. I don't believe the spurr story one bit I'm afraid but it's irrelevant now he's gone it doesn't matter and he'll get no rousing reception from me tomorrow as if he wanted to stay he'd still be here.
Agreed. Even if the contract was late coming for him, its hard to believe that we offered more money and, he turned it down and, he wanted to stay here!
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Nobody has mentioned about what kind of reception Tommy Spurr will get on Friday, I will certainly cheer/applaud his effort for his past service, we will certainly miss his long throw ins.
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I'm sure he will get a good reception..... then the ref will blow the whistle and he will get a dogs life! lol
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I know what I believe - that spurr jumped onto the first ship that came along offering more dollars. That's what footy is about now - cash. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a fool.
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I think Spurr was hanging on waiting to see if the cash injection from new sponsors was going to happen and then argue for a better deal. When it didn't he followed the bucks.
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Without reading through the entire thread, which has turned into a typical 'Viking Chat' mess, I was just wondering if anyone could provide me with a link or some sort of proof that Spurr had said he'd been offered a contract and then that he was going to sign it?
Why would there be proof? It was a conversation between him and supporters. Which was spoke about on here long before he jumped to Blackburn.
Because people are talking about it as if there's unquestionable proof that Spurr said these things. I tend to take "had a chat with PlayerX and he said..." posts on forums with a pinch of salt.
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Spare a thought for Tommy SPURR who left rovers on the SPUR of the moment and DE- SPARED at the thought of SPARING fans feelings by creating a cock and bull story about not needing SPARE cash.
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Silent Majority the VSC spin doctor.
You need to explain that one to me gaz.
He believes you are a member of a dodgy 1990's band?
Worst album I ever bought that... it had one decent song on it (the one that got in the charts) and the rest was bilge of the highest order!
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Without reading through the entire thread, which has turned into a typical 'Viking Chat' mess, I was just wondering if anyone could provide me with a link or some sort of proof that Spurr had said he'd been offered a contract and then that he was going to sign it?
Why would there be proof? It was a conversation between him and supporters. Which was spoke about on here long before he jumped to Blackburn.
Because people are talking about it as if there's unquestionable proof that Spurr said these things. I tend to take "had a chat with PlayerX and he said..." posts on forums with a pinch of salt.
I was thinking the same thing. How has it flipped round so that now we're supposed to think that "talking to Filo" or whoever is more reliable than a written news report?
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We should of kept tommy spurr if we had the chance. end off.
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We should of kept tommy spurr if we had the chance. end off.
Well we did try.. at the end of the day he was a free agent and he head the power.
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This is the same Tommy Spurr who told supporters at the Rossington game he had been offered a new contract?
Sorry but supporters lie... People say that players told them stuff all the time when they clearly didn't.
More inclined to believe what he's put in the paper to be honest. And more fool us for not keeping him with us.
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The conversation was long before he went to Blackburn and was put on here long before,so why would people have made that up?
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Reading between the lines, I would imagine that we offered him a contract based on the outcome of the investment talks which, like the contract, amounted to nothing.
I think it's widely known that Spurr was one of the top earners at the club. I'd imagine everyone would have liked to have kept him in an ideal world, but maybe it just wasn't feasible for all parties. He always gave everything for us so hopefully he'll get a good reception and we all move on.
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Jonathon,I'm not sure talking sence is allowed on here today...you better check with a mod..:-)
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Jonathon,I'm not sure talking sence is allowed on here today...you better check with a mod..:-)
or even typing "sense"
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This is the same Tommy Spurr who told supporters at the Rossington game he had been offered a new contract?
Sorry but supporters lie... People say that players told them stuff all the time when they clearly didn't.
More inclined to believe what he's put in the paper to be honest. And more fool us for not keeping him with us.
The supporters who tend to "lie" about this sort of stuff are you teenagers on Twitter who want to appear cool and ITK. If people were going to lie then why would they make up something as dull as talking to a player in a public environment when many spoke to him and others that day? Also why would so many make up the same "lie"?
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Jonathon,I'm not sure talking sence is allowed on here today...you better check with a mod..:-)
or even typing "sense"
Hahahaha
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Without reading through the entire thread, which has turned into a typical 'Viking Chat' mess, I was just wondering if anyone could provide me with a link or some sort of proof that Spurr had said he'd been offered a contract and then that he was going to sign it?
Why would there be proof? It was a conversation between him and supporters. Which was spoke about on here long before he jumped to Blackburn.
Because people are talking about it as if there's unquestionable proof that Spurr said these things. I tend to take "had a chat with PlayerX and he said..." posts on forums with a pinch of salt.
I was thinking the same thing. How has it flipped round so that now we're supposed to think that "talking to Filo" or whoever is more reliable than a written news report?
He did n`t talk to me, it was some one else, but`s lets say he did talk to me and then I went away and published in a local newspaper, would that give it more credence?
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Can we sum this argument up so we don't have to listen to any more interminable sounding off?
In summary it goes like this
People who think that the club is run by morons believe that we didn't offer Spurr a contract and as a result he had no option but to leave. These are generally the same people who believe that the club regularly lies to them and deceives them. They are generally the people who kept schtum when we won the title last year, then came back on here in force whining when we refused to sign Messi, Ronaldo and the ghost of Clarrie f**king Jordan.
The rest of us reckon that the club offered Spurr a contract that didn't come up to his own self-valuation, so he hawked himself round and got a better deal.
Can we now draw a line under it at that?
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Without reading through the entire thread, which has turned into a typical 'Viking Chat' mess, I was just wondering if anyone could provide me with a link or some sort of proof that Spurr had said he'd been offered a contract and then that he was going to sign it?
Why would there be proof? It was a conversation between him and supporters. Which was spoke about on here long before he jumped to Blackburn.
Because people are talking about it as if there's unquestionable proof that Spurr said these things. I tend to take "had a chat with PlayerX and he said..." posts on forums with a pinch of salt.
I was thinking the same thing. How has it flipped round so that now we're supposed to think that "talking to Filo" or whoever is more reliable than a written news report?
He did n`t talk to me, it was some one else, but`s lets say he did talk to me and then I went away and published in a local newspaper, would that give it more credence?
Well the point is they probably wouldn't publish it.
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Without reading through the entire thread, which has turned into a typical 'Viking Chat' mess, I was just wondering if anyone could provide me with a link or some sort of proof that Spurr had said he'd been offered a contract and then that he was going to sign it?
Why would there be proof? It was a conversation between him and supporters. Which was spoke about on here long before he jumped to Blackburn.
Because people are talking about it as if there's unquestionable proof that Spurr said these things. I tend to take "had a chat with PlayerX and he said..." posts on forums with a pinch of salt.
I was thinking the same thing. How has it flipped round so that now we're supposed to think that "talking to Filo" or whoever is more reliable than a written news report?
He did n`t talk to me, it was some one else, but`s lets say he did talk to me and then I went away and published in a local newspaper, would that give it more credence?
It'd be surprising, given you're a taxi driver.
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Haha Brilliant synopsis Billy.Step forward Craigyboy,Wellred and the rest of the bunch...
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Without reading through the entire thread, which has turned into a typical 'Viking Chat' mess, I was just wondering if anyone could provide me with a link or some sort of proof that Spurr had said he'd been offered a contract and then that he was going to sign it?
Why would there be proof? It was a conversation between him and supporters. Which was spoke about on here long before he jumped to Blackburn.
Because people are talking about it as if there's unquestionable proof that Spurr said these things. I tend to take "had a chat with PlayerX and he said..." posts on forums with a pinch of salt.
I was thinking the same thing. How has it flipped round so that now we're supposed to think that "talking to Filo" or whoever is more reliable than a written news report?
He did n`t talk to me, it was some one else, but`s lets say he did talk to me and then I went away and published in a local newspaper, would that give it more credence?
It'd be surprising, given you're a taxi driver.
How do you know I`m a taxi driver, you only have my word for it, posted on an internet forum, why have you not taken that with a pinch of salt?
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Without reading through the entire thread, which has turned into a typical 'Viking Chat' mess, I was just wondering if anyone could provide me with a link or some sort of proof that Spurr had said he'd been offered a contract and then that he was going to sign it?
Why would there be proof? It was a conversation between him and supporters. Which was spoke about on here long before he jumped to Blackburn.
Because people are talking about it as if there's unquestionable proof that Spurr said these things. I tend to take "had a chat with PlayerX and he said..." posts on forums with a pinch of salt.
I was thinking the same thing. How has it flipped round so that now we're supposed to think that "talking to Filo" or whoever is more reliable than a written news report?
He did n`t talk to me, it was some one else, but`s lets say he did talk to me and then I went away and published in a local newspaper, would that give it more credence?
It'd be surprising, given you're a taxi driver.
How do you know I`m a taxi driver, you only have my word for it, posted on an internet forum, why have you not taken that with a pinch of salt?
You are the most pathetic thing I've ever come across.
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Without reading through the entire thread, which has turned into a typical 'Viking Chat' mess, I was just wondering if anyone could provide me with a link or some sort of proof that Spurr had said he'd been offered a contract and then that he was going to sign it?
Why would there be proof? It was a conversation between him and supporters. Which was spoke about on here long before he jumped to Blackburn.
Because people are talking about it as if there's unquestionable proof that Spurr said these things. I tend to take "had a chat with PlayerX and he said..." posts on forums with a pinch of salt.
I was thinking the same thing. How has it flipped round so that now we're supposed to think that "talking to Filo" or whoever is more reliable than a written news report?
He did n`t talk to me, it was some one else, but`s lets say he did talk to me and then I went away and published in a local newspaper, would that give it more credence?
It'd be surprising, given you're a taxi driver.
How do you know I`m a taxi driver, you only have my word for it, posted on an internet forum, why have you not taken that with a pinch of salt?
Oh come on. You're being totally ridiculous now.
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A reminder not to play childish games chaps - keep on topic please.
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Haha Brilliant synopsis Billy.Step forward Craigyboy,Wellred and the rest of the bunch...
I think you might have just shown yourself up there wing commander. Scroll up and read what I said. I think you'll find I said that I thought spurr jumped ship for better cash.
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A reminder not to play childish games chaps - keep on topic please.
I made what I believe to be a valid point about football rumours being posted by fans on forums. Once again it's a moderator who is the biggest culprit for making ridiculously childish comments.
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We are not having this yet again.
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Why are we crying over a player who served us well, but frankly had his limitations and I think we can do better.
Having said that, he'll probably shoot for the first time in 6 months and it'll go in off someone's backside!!
Miss his long throw? T'old lad Wabara can chuck it a fair way tha nos!