Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Off Topic => Topic started by: DaveDRFC on July 17, 2014, 05:04:02 pm
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Very bad news, guess it could have happened to anyone but even more bad press for Malaysia Airlines. Can't even comprehend something like this happening, shot down at 33,000 feet??
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28354856
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Question - why are airlines flying over what is essentially a war zone?
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Question - why are airlines flying over what is essentially a war zone?
I've been thinking the same thing. I notice all the big airlines are now saying they won't be flying there. It shouldn't have taken something like this to happen to make them do that, they should have been avoiding it anyway!
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Pretty sure you emirates fly over Iraq but at an higher altitude
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Apparently they were flying over airspace that was restricted from civilian use anyway, so it makes you wonder what they were playing at.
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Pretty sure you emirates fly over Iraq but at an higher altitude
I've flown Emirates several time on the Uk-Dubai route. A few years now since I did it, but the flights very carefully stayed out of Iraq airspace. It was quite an eerie experience at night. You could see a row of red lights 30-40 miles in the distance, denoting the Iran-Iraq border and acting as a warning to planes not to veer into that area.
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I flew Emirates back from Singapore to Dubai in 2011 and looking on the flight status map on the screen on the back of the seat we were definitely over Iraq. An unnerving experience and the whole time I was thinking about that DHL cargo plane that was hit (but miraculously landed safely) by a missile fired by a bloke the ground.
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Flew on a Kuwaiti airways 747 in early 91 to Saudi and on their in flight map when we approached the Middle East, Israel did not exist, wonder why!
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I can see this all ending terribly. Ironically given the thread below about the Cuban missile crisis.. We are inexorably being pulled somewhere terrifying. America and Russia have never been best buddies let alone friends, now we have top republican John McCain claiming hell to pay if it is Russia to blame, whilst the Guardian is reporting that Putin has denied he is reopening the spy base in Cuba.
Anything that happens we will be stuck in the middle of, god help us all.
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I flew Emirates back from Singapore to Dubai in 2011 and looking on the flight status map on the screen on the back of the seat we were definitely over Iraq. An unnerving experience and the whole time I was thinking about that DHL cargo plane that was hit (but miraculously landed safely) by a missile fired by a bloke the ground.
Singapore to Dubai and you flew over Iraq? f**king hell, was the pilot taking you sightseeing? Iraq's about 500miles the wrong side of Dubai.
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Well, I'm not Middle East expert, but it certainly looked like it from the screen, hence my slight anxiety. Mind you, the scale of the screen could make 500 miles seem like 5mm, so...
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Pretty sure you emirates fly over Iraq but at an higher altitude
I've flown Emirates several time on the Uk-Dubai route. A few years now since I did it, but the flights very carefully stayed out of Iraq airspace. It was quite an eerie experience at night. You could see a row of red lights 30-40 miles in the distance, denoting the Iran-Iraq border and acting as a warning to planes not to veer into that area.
a quick google search says the Dubai route goes over Baghdad
done that route a few times i remember the first time as it was my first flight. While watching the map on the telly the arse fell out when i saw the route going over Iraq
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Pretty sure you emirates fly over Iraq but at an higher altitude
I've flown Emirates several time on the Uk-Dubai route. A few years now since I did it, but the flights very carefully stayed out of Iraq airspace. It was quite an eerie experience at night. You could see a row of red lights 30-40 miles in the distance, denoting the Iran-Iraq border and acting as a warning to planes not to veer into that area.
a quick google search says the Dubai route goes over Baghdad
done that route a few times i remember the first time as it was my first flight. While watching the map on the telly the arse fell out when i saw the route going over Iraq
Afro
Might well have changed. It was 2008, last time I did it.
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now been reported that two Newcastle utd fans were on the flight as they was
planning to take the teams pre season tour somewhere in asia
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Makes you think was the plane literally blown apart in the sky or was it partly damaged and everyone on board was alive before it crashed
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Was it the KM2?
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Russia has a history of shooting down civilian aircraft, remember the Korean airline in the 80's?
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UK-Dubai routes have been flying over eastern europe, including Ukraine, then over the Black Sea and Turkey, Iraq and down the gulf itself.
I am fairly certain that the international aviation transport community will take security and threat assessments into account when authorising routes.
This incident is probably a result of pro-Russian rebels shooting down the plane thinking it was Ukrainian. I doubt Russia's government itself would have authorised this.
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UK-Dubai routes have been flying over eastern europe, including Ukraine, then over the Black Sea and Turkey, Iraq and down the gulf itself.
I am fairly certain that the international aviation transport community will take security and threat assessments into account when authorising routes.
This incident is probably a result of pro-Russian rebels shooting down the plane thinking it was Ukrainian. I doubt Russia's government itself would have authorised this.
They're guilty by association, they are obviously arming the rebels and as such they should reign them in
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Filo
Several countries have previous on shooting down airliners. Including the USA and, ironically, Ukraine, which mistakenly shot down a Russian airliner 13 years ago.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/17/history-of-airlines-shot-down-malaysia-airlines-mh17
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Filo
Several countries have previous on shooting down airliners. Including the USA and, ironically, Ukraine, which mistakenly shot down a Russian airliner 13 years ago.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/17/history-of-airlines-shot-down-malaysia-airlines-mh17
I'll concede on that point, although I still stand by my point that Russia are guilty by association if it is found that the rebels have shot the aircraft down. Putin is in a bit of a corner now, if he stops supplying arms to the rebels and distances himself from them, it'll be seen as a climb down by him, if he carries on arming them he'll be seen as a sponsor of terrorism by the rest of the world, whatdoes he do, stick or twist?
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Filo
I agree that Putin carries a lot of the responsibility. It'll be interesting to see if he holds his hands up or if he blusters through it.
My post was meant to point out the muddy moral waters. The USA, as usual, plays the moral crusader. But it has NEVER apologised for one of it's warships killing 290 innocent Iranian civilians when a gung-ho Captain decided to fire a missile at it.
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Filo
I agree that Putin carries a lot of the responsibility. It'll be interesting to see if he holds his hands up or if he blusters through it.
My post was meant to point out the muddy moral waters. The USA, as usual, plays the moral crusader. But it has NEVER apologised for one of it's warships killing 290 innocent Iranian civilians when a gung-ho Captain decided to fire a missile at it.
Putin is old school KGB, there is no way he'll hold his hands up
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UK-Dubai routes have been flying over eastern europe, including Ukraine, then over the Black Sea and Turkey, Iraq and down the gulf itself.
I am fairly certain that the international aviation transport community will take security and threat assessments into account when authorising routes.
This incident is probably a result of pro-Russian rebels shooting down the plane thinking it was Ukrainian. I doubt Russia's government itself would have authorised this.
They're guilty by association, they are obviously arming the rebels and as such they should reign them in
Rightly or wrongly, the Russians may be supporting the rebels in their conflict with Ukraine. It may be that the use of anti-aircraft weapons was supposed to be against military targets. But perhaps due to lack of intelligence material, real time aircraft identification etc, they took down almost 300 innocent people. I am in no way justifying that, just offering a potential explanation.
Why this flight? What was special about Malaysian Airlines or Holland (most victims were Dutch) to the conflict in Ukraine? To me, this shows that the shooting down was random (in terms of this "target") and could have been any flight over that region, which is horrific to think of.
If it was a deliberate act, of terrorism for publicity, then they have succeeded. You would hope that in this case there wouldn't be any repeat.
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Maybe it was practice unfortuatley they took 300 peoples lives
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I suspect that they are trigger-happy retards who thought they were targeting a Ukranian military transport plane.
This is serious shit for Putin. He's supporting these cretins as a viable militia fighting a just war for independence. If they are proven to be a bunch of missile-toting head jobs who can't be trusted to check that an innocent civilian flight is in the sky before firing off a SAM, their credibility is zero.
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I suspect that they are trigger-happy retards who thought they were targeting a Ukranian military transport plane.
This is serious shit for Putin. He's supporting these cretins as a viable militia fighting a just war for independence. If they are proven to be a bunch of missile-toting head jobs who can't be trusted to check that an innocent civilian flight is in the sky before firing off a SAM, their credibility is zero.
just maybe the divs that brought the plane Down had been drinking and
was as pissed as newts
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I suspect that they are trigger-happy retards who thought they were targeting a Ukranian military transport plane.
This is serious shit for Putin. He's supporting these cretins as a viable militia fighting a just war for independence. If they are proven to be a bunch of missile-toting head jobs who can't be trusted to check that an innocent civilian flight is in the sky before firing off a SAM, their credibility is zero.
Putin is fortunate that the USA is "lead" by the worst President in living memory. Then again, I don't believe he would have tried to do what he has in Ukraine if the US had a half-decent leader.
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TRB
Worse than Dubya? Really? I mean...REALLY? A president who led the country into one illegal war, one unwinnable war and who pissed away the biggest fiscal surplus in a century on tax cuts for the richest few percent, leading directly to the second worst economic collapse since the 1870s.
You reckon Obama has a worse rap sheet than that?
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I suspect that they are trigger-happy retards who thought they were targeting a Ukranian military transport plane.
This is serious shit for Putin. He's supporting these cretins as a viable militia fighting a just war for independence. If they are proven to be a bunch of missile-toting head jobs who can't be trusted to check that an innocent civilian flight is in the sky before firing off a SAM, their credibility is zero.
Putin is fortunate that the USA is "lead" by the worst President in living memory. Then again, I don't believe he would have tried to do what he has in Ukraine if the US had a half-decent leader.
Have you been at the sherry?
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TRB
Worse than Dubya? Really? I mean...REALLY? A president who led the country into one illegal war, one unwinnable war and who pissed away the biggest fiscal surplus in a century on tax cuts for the richest few percent, leading directly to the second worst economic collapse since the 1870s.
You reckon Obama has a worse rap sheet than that?
I was wrong to say "worst." I should have said "weakest." Putin is emboldened by the fact that he knows Obama is unwilling to back up his windy rhetoric with anything stronger. For Putin also read the Islamists who have caused havoc in Iraq, Nigeria and many other places.
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What would a "strong" US leader have done about Ukraine?
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What would a "strong" US leader have done about Ukraine?
What do you think a strong Us President would have done.
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What would a "strong" US leader have done about Ukraine?
Well, I don't think it necessarily involves sending troops in, but he could have offered a lot more logistical support to the Ukranian government. However, the problem is more one of perception. Putin believes that the US has become isolationist on Obama's watch and is probably right.
Having said all that, a lot of the problems in Ukraine were caused by meddling from the EU, for which we must take a share of the responsibility.
A strong President would not have left the Iraqui Government (which the US supposedly supports) without the means to defend itself, either.
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Two good points,there is a lot of sh*t on you tube today concerning the two Malay airliners, some of it quite disturbing.
The stuff about Diego Garcia is interestng.
Sproty did say the Yanks shot that plane down remember!
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TRB
A hypothesis. The USA threw away both it's moral high ground and it's domestic stomach for playing the world's policeman in the backstreets of Sadr City and the roadsides of Kandahar.
Obama is the heir to a disastrous few years in madcap foreign intervention and America is a different country as a result.
http://www.people-press.org/2013/12/03/public-sees-u-s-power-declining-as-support-for-global-engagement-slips/
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Christine Lagarde talking about the global currency reset. Is slightly alarming,especially the one when she talks about the significance of the the number 7!
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This situation is very alarming with reports of the rebels' looting, bodies being left in the heat or stolen, now,finally, they are giving limited access. Even so the black boxes were taken away by who knows whom. Tbh, my first thought when hearing this and the US' very quick finger pointing at Putin and Russia, was that we had shot it down to get world backing for the Ukraine, against Russia. I'm the first to admit I read too many spy novels these days, and I'm relieved to see that that does not appear to be the case.
Anyway, my thoughts to the victims and their families, and if Dutch Uncle has any friends or associates among the victims, my condolences.
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Many thanks for the kind thoughts Sandy. Although we moved back to Bangor, County Down about a year ago after 36 years in NL, obviously I still have many friends still there, and my eldest daughter still lives there. As far as I know I don't know anyone involved. However my daughter's husband is half Malaysian and they have flown that exact flight several times before. Scary.
I just hope all sides handle the crisis sensibily (that does not mean weakly) and it does not unnecessarily cause far greater tragedies and suffering.
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TRB
Worse than Dubya? Really? I mean...REALLY? A president who led the country into one illegal war, one unwinnable war and who pissed away the biggest fiscal surplus in a century on tax cuts for the richest few percent, leading directly to the second worst economic collapse since the 1870s.
You reckon O FCCbama has a worse rap sheet than that?
Nah Dubya was a complete the tool. Both the Bush ' s were.......Obama will have to work hard to ever reach their level of all - round incompetence.
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Strangely I thought there would be far more interest in this subject.
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TBH, Hoola, there seems to be innocent's being murdered all over the world at the moment, and it is beginning to lose its horror.
Ukraine
Gaza
The poor little 5 year old in the USA killed in the crossfire between her abductor and the police.
It seems the rights of the innocent to be safe in their everyday lives have been eroded away.
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TBH, Hoola, there seems to be innocent's being murdered all over the world at the moment, and it is beginning to lose its horror.
Ukraine
Gaza
The poor little 5 year old in the USA killed in the crossfire between her abductor and the police.
It seems the rights of the innocent to be safe in their everyday lives have been eroded away.
eye for an eye and time to bring back Death penalty ,as society has gone far too soft and laid back for certian crimes
it seems today the world over, that the culprits have far better human rights
than the right to live of the victims and their Familys.
dont give two fcuks what any left wing fcuk says at peodofiles,but they should put to Death aswell instead of trying to understand them and study their so called fcuking sickness
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Oslo
You'd be at home in Saudi Arabia and Iran mate. They have a very similar outlook to you.
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Oslo
You'd be at home in Saudi Arabia and Iran mate. They have a very similar outlook to you.
why not BST ,as way society is going the prisons will be rammed full With over crowding and fcukwits on the outside
moaning about the prisoners human rights
read in the paper yesterday about a women from home counties.she had conned 100s thousands out of benafit system,and it would take her 178 years to pay it back at the rate deemed actable by the judge.WTF.ok its not the deatrh penalty but shows how out of grasp Our society is.
why should the Death sentence be not given out to anyone
that murders a person once found guilty as charged
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Because you can't un-execute them if it turns out you've got the wrong bloke.
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Oslo
I think the gist of what you're saying is that you reckon Sharia Law has a better take on this than liberal Western democracies do.
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I'm a Rosso lad. I used to love a good stoning in the early 80s.
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Oslo
I think the gist of what you're saying is that you reckon Sharia Law has a better take on this than liberal Western democracies do.
Irony is a cruel mistress.
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I'm a Rosso lad. I used to love a good stoning in the early 80s.
Most people in Rosso these days are stoned :)
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Some interesting stuff on PPrune today including this:
Shttp://www.infowars.com/whistleblower-u-s-satellite-images-show-ukrainian-troops-shooting-down-mh17/
in addition details of a Russian military press conference where they point out that the US had an experimental Satellite over the scene and invite them to release the data they have.
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Some interesting stuff on PPrune today including this:
Shttp://www.infowars.com/whistleblower-u-s-satellite-images-show-ukrainian-troops-shooting-down-mh17/
in addition details of a Russian military press conference where they point out that the US had an experimental Satellite over the scene and invite them to release the data they have.
That is interesting, if true
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Some interesting stuff on PPrune today including this:
Shttp://www.infowars.com/whistleblower-u-s-satellite-images-show-ukrainian-troops-shooting-down-mh17/
in addition details of a Russian military press conference where they point out that the US had an experimental Satellite over the scene and invite them to release the data they have.
Well that can all be cleared up by those pro- Russians that were claiming to have downed a Ukrainian military jet on the same time and date as the passenger plane was hit explaining where the one they hit went!
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Yargo
That's assuming those released tapes were kosher.
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in addition details of a Russian military press conference where they point out that the US had an experimental Satellite over the scene and invite them to release the data they have.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bNPInuSqfs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bNPInuSqfs)
It's a bit long winded but here it is.
Amazing how quickly and with such certainty our media and politicians seem to have come to conclusions with little evidence being offered.
Anyone seen the pictures doing the rounds which supposedly show a Russian seperatist stealing a ring from the crash site? What's to say he wasn't recovering valuables for safe keeping? Is it even a ring anyway? It could be a bloody Ukrainian hoola-hoop for all the picture shows.
It smacks of black propaganda. I imagine Pravda are running pictures of that Sky reporter rummaging through suitcases with the tagline 'Agent of the west caught stealing/ tampering with evidence'.
Who knows what to believe. I certainly don't trust our politicians and security services, or Russia's.
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Those nasty USA didn't land on the moon it was all filmed in the Nevada desert,strange how Russian scientists now use mirrors placed there in the 70's by astronauts to measure the rate the moon is moving away from us? So says Brian Cox anyway,perhaps the floppy haired Manc is in on it eh?http://www.newrepublic.com/node/118782 (http://www.newrepublic.com/node/118782)
Anyway im off to Cleggy