Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: Retdon1 on June 10, 2016, 04:19:48 pm
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Premier League academy teams will be allowed to play in the EFL Trophy next season after radical plans to revamp the competition were approved at the English Football League's annual general meeting in Portugal.
Press Association Sport understands 16 of the 21 existing category one academies - most of them belonging to top-flight teams - will be invited to join a 64-team competition which will start with 16 groups of four before becoming a straight knock-out with a final at Wembley.
The Premier League is also understood to have provided £1million to create a total prize fund of £1.95m, with bonuses awarded for each win.
The 16 elite academy sides will be evenly distributed throughout the groups with the 48 clubs from Leagues One and Two, with the whole competition running on a north/south basis until the final.
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Not a fan of this to be honest. I don't see the point of having group games, just adds to an allready packed fixture list.
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If that's the case then why can't L1/L2 clubs use their academy players instead of putting more pressure on the first team.
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http://www.efl.com/news/article/2016/premier-league-trial-for-the-trophy-3140598.aspx
F*cking joke. Trophy is going to mean even less now, and if an academy team wins, it's going to make a mockery of all L1 and L2 teams. :thumbdown:
Also, when playing academy teams away will they be hosted at the proper club's stadium, or an academy ground?
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You could have a game like Bournemouth academy vs watford academy in the final. This cup was some clubs and players only chance of ever playing at wembley.
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I really hope fans, and clubs if possible, boycott this now completely pointless competition.
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Utterly f**king pointless.
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Looks like it has been done because they can't find a sponsor - or at least one that will put enough money in.
http://www.derbyshiretimes.co.uk/sport/football/doncaster-rovers-and-chesterfield-could-face-premier-league-academies-in-revamped-efl-trophy-next-season-1-7958597
Someone at the Derbyshire Times needs to take more care with the picture library, BTW.
I think maybe we should field our under-21s!
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I could be in the minority here but I dont have a problem with this. The competition is tin pot anyway and is only remotely interesting IF you get to the Final.
Having these youth teams in it will add a touch of 'something else if nothing else' to it, and our younger fans might get the chance to see a couple of future stars in the making.
As an older generation fan I tend to give the Tin Pot Cup (and League Cup) a miss these days anyway and would rather focus my resources on the League and the FA Cup.
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Regardless of those teams being involved, I would prefer to see the group games or first few rounds played pre-season. In that way there are some competitive fixtures pre season and then less congestion later.
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So basically our second strings could be playing Blackburn academy away next season? Is that meant to add value to the competition? Is it meant to be a spectacle people pay to watch? I won't.
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The whole competition is now a load more chances for our players to get tired and pick up injuries.
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And EFL still sounds like a group of dyslexic racists
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Craig - I take it you didn't enjoy the semifinal v Southend the season we won it?
I'm completely against this - if the PL youth teams need competitive match practice, why don't they just organise their own league/cup?
How will the groups work? Home and away fixtures ie 6 games for each team? If not, surely home teams get unfair advantage.
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How will the groups work? Home and away fixtures ie 6 games for each team? If not, surely home teams get unfair advantage.
Academy teams will only play group games at home and every team plays each other only once (from one of the articles I read at least). It's not all PL team either, some are championship.
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Craig - I take it you didn't enjoy the semifinal v Southend the season we won it?
Crewe!
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How will the groups work? Home and away fixtures ie 6 games for each team? If not, surely home teams get unfair advantage.
Academy teams will only play group games at home and every team plays each other only once (from one of the articles I read at least). It's not all PL team either, some are championship.
So for example if we drew say man united away, would the game be at old Trafford or the training ground/non league ground that the academy play most of there games at
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At least the extra prize money is being spread across the rounds if it means a bonus for each win- which can mean a lot to some smaller clubs.
As for saying that it's some players' only chance of getting to Wembley, I'd say that seasoned professionals shouldn't have any problem facing an Academy team of youngsters (only a few players of whom are ever going to amount to anything in the game). If the pros can't cope with them perhaps they don't deserve to get to the final...
All in all, it really depends on just how much importance you placed on the competition in the first place...
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Re-structure the leagues to cut down on midweek games & now this.
:silly:
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Scotland's League Cup has undergone a similarly pointless change of format along these lines.
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I may also be in a minority but I hate this move. I actually like the old JPT. It's the only real route we have to win a trophy at Wembley. I just hope this move isn't the thin end of the wedge in allowing them into the league as well😟
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I may also be in a minority but I hate this move. I actually like the old JPT. It's the only real route we have to win a trophy at Wembley. I just hope this move isn't the thin end of the wedge in allowing them into the league as well😟
Don't think you're in a minority there mate...
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I may also be in a minority but I hate this move. I actually like the old JPT. It's the only real route we have to win a trophy at Wembley. I just hope this move isn't the thin end of the wedge in allowing them into the league as well😟
This is the start if it means the league or fa or sky can make money then they will do everything to force it though.
The best thing to do is boycott any games
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Craig - I take it you didn't enjoy the semifinal v Southend the season we won it?
Crewe!
That'll teach me posting from the pub!
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I'm guessing we'll have to field a certain number of players from previous fixtures? Just think this is stupid idea, along with the league structure changes too...
No need to change!
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I may have misubnderstood the exact format - I've assumed the top two teams in each group go through to the knock out stage, and, that each group only plays 3 matches per team. If that's all ok it would mean 79 matches in total for the competition. And that would mean each match, assuming a flat rate for all rounds, would net the winner £24,683. Not a real lot imho. It might be nice to have, but it's not going to change anything much. Even if you won every single match you play right through to winning the whole thing, the prize money would be less than £200k.
I don't call that generous by the PL and Championship for getting their kids into a grown ups competition.
BobG
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It might be worth it to see their kids getting lumps kicked out of them. :lol:
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I'd loved to have seen some of the precious tattooed and diamond studded PL wannabes against Colin Sutherland, Mark Albrighton, Steve Foster and Tim Ryan.
That would have been some awakening.
I still remember a young Van Persie wondering what the hell hit him before disappearing at Belle Vue.
I wonder how keen PL teams will be when the injuries start building up with their young hopefuls.
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I really hope fans, and clubs if possible, boycott this now completely pointless competition.
The clubs voted for it.
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Not all of them.
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I wonder which way our lot voted?
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https://www.change.org/p/the-head-of-the-efl-abandon-the-2016-17-efl-trophy-proposals?recruiter=31417874 (https://www.change.org/p/the-head-of-the-efl-abandon-the-2016-17-efl-trophy-proposals?recruiter=31417874)
If anyone wants to sign that.
At the end of the day no one cares what us fans think. The Premier League are holding the Football League over a barrel, they did it once with EPPP and now they've done it again with this and give it a few more year and they'll get their development teams in the Football League. Since 92 football was ruined by people not supporting their local clubs on TV because they can watch PL on TV and now online, then the PL became super rich and decided to use and blackmail the Football League how they wish.
It makes me sick aswell when clubs go bankrupt for sums of money which players like Rooney earn in a week. English football is going to the shit.
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I wonder which way our lot voted?
Would be interesting to know, agreed.
Just seen, apparently 1/3 FL clubs didn't back this.
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That's me not ever watching a JPT game again! Absolute farce!
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Yes, a bit of a farce really. It's a mish mash and I'm sure its popularity will be reflected on the terraces.
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This will hopefully end up with people marching on the FA and Premier League headquarters in mass and showing them how we feel.
With EPPP I don't get why they didn't just give more money to the lower down clubs to increase the academies and coaching in the whole of England to get the greatest chance of developing players not just limit it to about 30 clubs.
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We should boycott all the games in the group and hope other league 1 and 2 clubs do the same. Send a message to the EFL they can't disregard the views of supporters.
It appears 2/3 rds of EFL clubs have been seduced by the money and not thought about their supporters.
Doncaster Rovers ????
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I really hope someone other than Spain or Germany win the Euros like a Northern Ireland then we'll copy them and decide teamwork is better than B teams. Us copying the winner thing is really odd.
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U21 Teams Welcomed To The FL Trophy
The Football League, or as it now wants to be called, the English Football League (EFL), have held their Summer Conference and confirmed that member clubs have agreed that from the 2016/17 season, 16 Category One Premier League/Under 21 sides will be welcomed into a new and fresh format for the Football League Trophy.
Most will know it as the (old) Johnstone's Paint Trophy, but their sponsorship expired this summer, and with already plenty of talk of format changes to the domestic cups and even the suggestion of introducing a new League Three to the football pyramid in the future - and the idea of introducing Under 21 sides to the Trophy competition is (supposedly) a logical first step with it also being suggested that Under 21 sides could also fill a spot in the speculation League Three introduction.
Whilst it's tagged as an 'ongoing commitment to creating more and better home grown players' any potential boost in reality that this might give to the next generation is offset by the fact that the emergency loan window has now been abolished, so youngsters will miss out on that chance to gain professional league football under their belts in that manner. In any event, it's no great surprise to see this idea come to fruition as it has been spoken about for a while, but it is only an agreement to trial it for a season at this stage.
With changes to the Trophy now agreed, it will see 64 sides from League One and Two, plus the 16 Under 21 set ups, and the competition itself will now include a group stage format with 16 regional groups of four sides competing against each other. Each side will play the other once, but the Under 21 side will have only one home game. The top two sides in each group will progress through to the knockout stages of the competition, which will continue to be North/South based, and the Final will be, as usual, at Wembley Stadium in April.
The full details are expected within the next fortnight, and by then probably the 16 competing Under 21 sides will also be confirmed - but it's very much expected they will be Premier League based and any Championship Category One sides will miss out.
As part of the agreement, it's also being said the Premier League are contributing £1million to the competitions prize fund to take it to £1.95million, and bonuses will be spread based on victories. It's also reported the vote itself wasn't straight forward with a number of clubs voicing their displeasure - but the vote count hasn't been released either from what I tell. But not every club being on board with this would've been expected to be honest.
With wider changes up for discussion as well, such as the introduction of a new division to allow the Championship, League One and League Two to reduce to a 20 side make up, chief executive Shaun Harvey said of the Summer Conference: 'I would like to commend clubs for engaging in an open-minded and thought provoking discussion of these important matters. As outlined at outset, any decisions can only be made by clubs themselves and it was therefore essential that they had the opportunity to hear more about the thinking that has underpinned the Board's approach and were able to debate all the relevant issues. Clubs have asked for more information, further consultation and the opportunity to discuss additional matters at subsequent meetings during 2016/17. In parallel, we will develop discussions with the FA and Premier League alongside other stakeholders across football, as we look to find what is best for the English game.'
For the wholescale changes that are up for discussion, no vote or final decisions will be taken prior to the Summer Conference in June 2017.
The current list of possible U21 teams - Arsenal, Aston Villa, Blackburn Rovers, Chelsea, Everton, Fulham, Leicester City, Liverpool, Manchester City, Manchester United, Middlesbrough, Norwich City, Reading, Southampton, Stoke City, Sunderland, Tottenham Hotspur, West Bromwich Albion, West Ham United and Wolverhampton Wanderers.
Other clubs could achieve that status at the next audit, and equally some clubs also don't highlight their rank. Whilst some will no doubt welcome this, namely the Premier League sides looking to boost the experience of their youngsters, plenty of fans will see it as the start to a slippery slope where wider football is again and further marginalised for Premier League priority.
Many will of course see it as a first step towards B teams, and again the advantages or disadvantages of that depend on where you sit in the pyramid and how much cash you have behind you. And with mixed views already about the Trophy, the regulations surrounding squad changes and the like, many will also wonder if increasing the game schedule - given all the talk of reducing fixture schedules of late - will see the competition quickly lose more of its potential shine with weaker sides being picked, which defeats its purpose of being a better opportunity for a day out at Wembley for clubs at that level.
Are you happy to see U21 as the first sign of "B" sides entering English football cup competitions, and who knows, league status in the future?
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Does that mean if we got drawn against Man U we would possibly play at old trafford?
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Typical of football governing bodies. Everything revolves around the premiership. Sod the football league. No one will benefit from this apart from the under 21's clubs. Under review in a year my arse. This is in to stay until the premiership find something better. In my view the league clubs should all go out and play their under 21's it might just humiliate the so called big clubs who produce players that never see the premiership
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Old Trafford no chance it will be at buryorvwherever there under 21's play. Would any of these so called BIG clubs want the likes of donny stepping foot on their holy turf I would be very surprised
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I really hope fans, and clubs if possible, boycott this now completely pointless competition.
The clubs voted for it.
Under how much duress?
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Why not allow the big clubs to play from the first round in fa and league cups?, and allow them to field entire under twenty one sides until the later rounds. Then they get the experience, and it doesn't devalue a lower league cup.
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Would we be able to play our under 21s
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Yes, but i would think smaller clubs would play the strongest side, to make sure they win. Bigger sides have europe to contend with plus the league itself.
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lower league should turn this on its head and play under 21's the same as them. I would imagine that a lot of young players in lower league are as good as the supposed future superstars from premiership. Look at some of the crap we've had on loan.
Another point premiership players on their way back from injury often turn out for the under 21's. Will they be able to do that in this competition if they can it makes an even bigger farce of it
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I agree. I think next season we have to be a bit single minded and not worry too much about Cups. This competition in particular seems an opportunity to field some of the young lads.
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http://www.derbyshiretimes.co.uk/sport/football/chesterfield-fc/chesterfield-ceo-initially-opposed-football-league-trophy-changes-as-fans-threaten-boycott-1-7960817
I wonder if we will find out how DRFC voted?
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Two things from this:
http://mobile.Scunthorpe-united.co.uk/news/article/2016-17/iron-board-attends-efl-conference-3141941.aspx
1. Scunthorpe voted in favour.
2. The academy sides will play at their first team ground.
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I would love all 16 of the under 21s to be knocked out first round.
Hope we voted against
Think that some clubs could have been conned into voting for this and now are realising that fans dont want this so the money gained from the pl will be lost be fans not going to the games
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It's a one year experiment so we need to boycott those games and as a club play our youngsters and hope they abandon it....We need to concentrate on the league this year and we play to many games as it is ...
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The Scunny CEO said they voted in favour because they were told it was the best way to protect the competition. Not sure it would have been impossible to find another sponsor though.
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We need to be playing less games and the money needs to be more equally shared.
Let's be honest, nobody cares less about the JBT really.
Scrap it and get the EPL to chuck a few million around to compensate the FL clubs impacted.
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From https://twitter.com/AgainstLeague3
Known voting so far:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ck2hKMMWUAABUkt.jpg)
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When I get the opportunity to watch Rovers at Old Trafford or Anfield I want it to be an event, an occasion. I want us to work hard to get there and I want the stadium to be packed.
I don't want a few thousand people in an empty stadium in a competition no one cares about in the early stages.
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If this kind of crap keeps going on, i dont know if its possible but coudn't football league teams start breaking away and form a new league and give the middle finger to the top flight, big money boys and leave them to it in a league all by themselves.
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I would love all 16 of the under 21s to be knocked out first round.
Hope we voted against
Think that some clubs could have been conned into voting for this and now are realising that fans dont want this so the money gained from the pl will be lost be fans not going to the games
I can just imagine the FL pitch on this:
1. We don't have a sponsor.
2. The competition is dying on its arse (attendances were down last season).
3. It's only for one season.
There's also the possibility that the plan wasn't put forward until the meeting and was then presented as take it or leave it. So those clubs who might have wanted to consult fans had no opportunity to do so.
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Latest position. DRFC still silent.
http://www.againstleague3.co.uk/efl-voting-tracker/
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Nice idea but we would lose the few drops of trickle down money in form of EPL guilt cash that probably help keep many clubs afloat.
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Latest position. DRFC still silent.
http://www.againstleague3.co.uk/efl-voting-tracker/
Why havent the board made a statement yet?
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Latest position. DRFC still silent.
http://www.againstleague3.co.uk/efl-voting-tracker/
Why havent the board made a statement yet?
Probably because no-one has asked them. I understand both the DFP and the VSC plan to do so.
However I think a lot of key players are on holiday at the moment.
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Bolton are an interesting case study. They previously had category one academy but have recently downgraded themselves to category two to save money - thought to be because it's too expensive to maintain and they can't compete with the likes of Man City and Chelsea. They have voted against the proposed change.
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Latest position. DRFC still silent.
http://www.againstleague3.co.uk/efl-voting-tracker/
Why havent the board made a statement yet?
Probably because no-one has asked them. I understand both the DFP and the VSC plan to do so.
Can we have a statement from the VSC confirming this please.
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I saw something on Twitter to that effect yesterday.
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Latest position. DRFC still silent.
http://www.againstleague3.co.uk/efl-voting-tracker/
Why havent the board made a statement yet?
Probably because no-one has asked them. I understand both the DFP and the VSC plan to do so.
Can we have a statement from the VSC confirming this please.
Silent Majority has confirmed to me in the VSC Members section that the VSC will be asking the question.
I've also just asked on Twitter, as have some others.
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I'm not attending these games, simple as that. It is the only way we can show our displeasure in a way thst the pwoers that be will even notice.
I fear this is the first step towards the end of our lovely league pyramid system.
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I'm not attending these games, simple as that. It is the only way we can show our displeasure in a way thst the pwoers that be will even notice.
I fear this is the first step towards the end of our lovely league pyramid system.
Neither will I, it's a poor idea.
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So if this is happening, then our under 21's can play in the FA vase and the conference cup or whatever it's called nowadays?.
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Aye, cos that change has obviously been voted on and the Conference Cup revived, at random. Yep.
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I think Sammy meant the FA Trophy...
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I really hope fans, and clubs if possible, boycott this now completely pointless competition.
The clubs voted for it.
Under how much duress?
Probably quite a bit.
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Latest position. DRFC still silent.
http://www.againstleague3.co.uk/efl-voting-tracker/
Why havent the board made a statement yet?
Probably because no-one has asked them. I understand both the DFP and the VSC plan to do so.
Can we have a statement from the VSC confirming this please.
Silent Majority has confirmed to me in the VSC Members section that the VSC will be asking the question.
I've also just asked on Twitter, as have some others.
We have had a chat about it. As always these things are never black and white and the consultation period was a) very short b) didn't include supporter consultation which we all know goes against the ethos at our club.
The focus for DRFC next season is promotion, anything else really comes a long way down the list.
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Surely this is a case of black and white.
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Surely this is a case of black and white.
No its not. The changes to the competition are tied in with new rule changes on player availability (as in full strength teams), the status of the EPPP academies, fixture congestion, financial viability of certain games and various other factors. All of this still has to be worked out making a vote a little premature.
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I always find this voting at football AGMs complete nonsense.
It's a representative of the club that gets a vote, usually the chairman/chief executive/secretary - a lot of whom put the business interests of the company (pound signs) before the interests of their managers.
Any proposed change will always get presented as a big fat, beneficial juicy carrot that's good for your club, good for revenue, etc, purely because the people behind the proposed changes want it to go ahead and want to force it through.
The people who should be voting on these changes are the managers/coaches - I'd even take more notice of the physio's opinion than a money-orientated chairman/chief executive.
Managers/coaches/physios will at least have an understanding on how it'll impact the players - and whether's it's actually beneficial from a football perspective and not a money perspective.
The Football League Trophy is a joke competition anyway, until the latter stages. It's an even bigger joke competition now the Premier League have effectively got their claws into it.
When Leyton Orient (or any other bog standard, bog average lower league club) get to a final at Wembley, they want to be playing against a proper senior team - not potentially Chelsea's Under 21s, who will pass the ball around in pretty triangles for 90 f**king minutes.
Which is why a proper consultation period becomes important and also why it distracts from our objective of promotion next season.
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The question was which way has the club voted.
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At a guess, judging by the response, we've voted for it.
Hopefully I'm wrong.
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At a guess, judging by the response, we've voted for it.
Hopefully I'm wrong.
The club didn't vote, it didn't get that far.
It was a very qualified yes from most EFL clubs. Most clubs have said the competition does need to be looked at, it even needs a new sponsor, but our next season is focused on automatic promotion rather than this.
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Surely this is a case of black and white.
No its not. The changes to the competition are tied in with new rule changes on player availability (as in full strength teams), the status of the EPPP academies, fixture congestion, financial viability of certain games and various other factors. All of this still has to be worked out making a vote a little premature.
Is this connected to the vote that is going to take place next year, SM? On the 20 team Leagues that is?
I agree that it would have made sense to consider the FL Trophy (and the League Cup) at the same time.
However I have a theory that they went down this road because they couldn't find a suitable commercial sponsor for this season's competition. That doesn't mean I agree with the outcome, but it would explain a lot.
One question that does need answering though is whether FL teams will be able to make large numbers of changes for these games. Seems unfair, to say the least, if only the PL teams are allowed to use this competition to develop their young players.
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PLEASE don't bow to the numpties who've scrapped the history of THE Football League by using their "EFL" name.
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Remember the campaign JR waged about getting on some FA board?
Classic JR.
He did loads of media telling them they were wrong and how they probably wouldn't let him join as he would shake everything up.
Unsurprisingly the suits did exactly that.
To which JR hen recycled his media campaign telling them they were all wrong and in effect he had won as they were always going to do this so it was no surprise.
John Ryan/Geoff Boycott.
Geoff Boycott//John Ryan.
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Very disappointing that the club has voted in favour.
I don't doubt that we are focused on promotion, but I'm fearful that we are trivialising an issue that, for me, sets a worrying precedent.
I wouldn't be surprised to see the support of FL clubs "bought" again when they inevitably try to introduce PL U21 teams into the Football League itself. I can realistically see that happening within the next few years, and if it does I certainly won't be going to watch any more.
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pib, the FL are keen to keep the competition alive, and for that reason I can live with the decision for the time being, especially since the rules of the competition need to be worked out. Plus, there is a very large number of clubs who voted yes are now actively questioning how this needs to be set up so as to benefit the FL clubs and not the academies of the PL clubs. I do trust them to make this happen.
However to then connect it with an idea that hasn't been mooted yet is a very large stretch. The restructuring of the FL itself has only just been put out for consultation and that itself wont happen any time soon, if at all. The FSF and others have agreed to debate and consult, in fact we're holding a workshop with the incoming new Chair of the FL next month with this as the topic. As I've said before these things are never black or white and a vote either way doesn't mean that much at this stage.
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I appreciate I'm not an "insider" SM but I disagree.
It's clear that the powers that be want PL U21 teams in the Football League. They think, rightly or wrongly, that it will improve the development of young players and therefore the long-term fortunes of the national team.
It seems to me very clearly that this JPT idea is being used as a foot in the door for a restructuring of the league system. It's being dressed up as a way to "keep the competition alive" but I'm very sceptical as to how it will actually do that? Will it improve attendances? I doubt it. On the national football forums I read, the vast majority of fans would refuse to attend the games. Surely most clubs would want to EARN a tie at a top PL ground in a cup competition and play in front of a full house, rather than playing in front of a few thousand against their reserves.
Will it make the games more exciting? I very much doubt that either. If we thought it was more entertaining to watch Premier League players, surely we'd just do that rather than watching Donny/Barnet/Leyton Orient/Swindon/whoever else.
We all know that a handful of games in the JPT isn't going to make any difference to the development of young players as it's a drop in the ocean, but if they test the water and a few thousand local plastic fans turn up because they want to watch Man U ressies in the JPT, they will hail it a success and we'll move closer to having PL U21 teams foisted on us in the league. Use a competition that not a lot of people care about/value to test the model, and then step it up from there.
I agree the JPT needs some changes to liven it up but I don't see how this will do it, and I can tell that yet again the rest of us are being made to dance to the FA and the Premier League's tune in the name of making the competition more exciting.
I'm ashamed that DRFC have voted in favour.
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Very disappointing that the club has voted in favour.
I don't doubt that we are focused on promotion, but I'm fearful that we are trivialising an issue that, for me, sets a worrying precedent.
I wouldn't be surprised to see the support of FL clubs "bought" again when they inevitably try to introduce PL U21 teams into the Football League itself. I can realistically see that happening within the next few years, and if it does I certainly won't be going to watch any more.
Pib, apologies but I misled you earlier. The club didn't get chance to vote. As with most voting processes the first vote was a yes by the majority therefore the vote was carried. In that respect it was a qualified yes by the majority and we were not in favour.
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I appreciate I'm not an "insider" SM but I disagree.
It's clear that the powers that be want PL U21 teams in the Football League. They think, rightly or wrongly, that it will improve the development of young players and therefore the long-term fortunes of the national team.
It seems to me very clearly that this JPT idea is being used as a foot in the door for a restructuring of the league system. It's being dressed up as a way to "keep the competition alive" but I'm very sceptical as to how it will actually do that? Will it improve attendances? I doubt it. On the national football forums I read, the vast majority of fans would refuse to attend the games. Surely most clubs would want to EARN a tie at a top PL ground in a cup competition and play in front of a full house, rather than playing in front of a few thousand against their reserves.
Will it make the games more exciting? I very much doubt that either. If we thought it was more entertaining to watch Premier League players, surely we'd just do that rather than watching Donny/Barnet/Leyton Orient/Swindon/whoever else.
We all know that a handful of games in the JPT isn't going to make any difference to the development of young players as it's a drop in the ocean, but if they test the water and a few thousand local plastic fans turn up because they want to watch Man U ressies in the JPT, they will hail it a success and we'll move closer to having PL U21 teams foisted on us in the league. Use a competition that not a lot of people care about/value to test the model, and then step it up from there.
I agree the JPT needs some changes to liven it up but I don't see how this will do it, and I can tell that yet again the rest of us are being made to dance to the FA and the Premier League's tune in the name of making the competition more exciting.
I'm ashamed that DRFC have voted in favour.
pib,
just to clarify the club didn't vote in favour.
I'm just a football fan like you are, I just chose (or it chose me) to become involved in the politics of these things 20 years ago, therefore being an insider seems an odd choice to use. But we are, (and there are many more like me), people who choose to involve themselves in various aspects of fan issues. We have a very strong governance team who take these issues seriously. Not only that but we have the weight of various bodies, institutions, authorities, and other heavyweight bodies that we can throw at these arguments.
The worry would be, as you point out, that this could be used as a way of restructuring the leagues. But the FL have already released details of how they are seeking to restructure the leagues so why would they choose this as the vehicle? If you mean will it demonstrate that PL U21 teams can be an asset to the FL then I personally think that will backfire, if in fact that is their position. And it will backfire for one reason only, and that is there is no appetite from supporters to see this happen. That means that attendances will be low and will therefore fail at the very first hurdle. Yes the PL could throw more money in their direction but empty stadiums will kill it off.
You're right to show concern but I wouldn't be overly worried, there's enough FL clubs out there who will seal its fate.
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SM - forgive me if I'm wrong but didn't you write earlier that the club voted in favour? The post appears to be edited now. What caused you to think that the club had voted in favour?
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Latest position. DRFC still silent.
http://www.againstleague3.co.uk/efl-voting-tracker/
RB, I wouldn't trust that as an indicator of voting preferences. The truth of the matter was there was no acknowledged 'no' vote. It didn't get that far. The vote was carried on the initial show of hands for yes.
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SM - forgive me if I'm wrong but didn't you write earlier that the club voted in favour? The post appears to be edited now. What caused you to think that the club had voted in favour?
I did. But I've had a further chat and its been confirmed that they didn't vote at all, they didn't get the chance. It was an error on my part of which I've attempted to correct.
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Latest position. DRFC still silent.
http://www.againstleague3.co.uk/efl-voting-tracker/
RB, I wouldn't trust that as an indicator of voting preferences. The truth of the matter was there was no acknowledged 'no' vote. It didn't get that far. The vote was carried on the initial show of hands for yes.
Fair enough. I suppose all it really shows is those clubs who are firmly against the change. Or, being cynical, want to reassure their supporters.
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I would love all 16 of the under 21s to be knocked out first round.
Hope we voted against
Think that some clubs could have been conned into voting for this and now are realising that fans dont want this so the money gained from the pl will be lost be fans not going to the games
I can just imagine the FL pitch on this:
1. We don't have a sponsor.
2. The competition is dying on its arse (attendances were down last season).
3. It's only for one season.
There's also the possibility that the plan wasn't put forward until the meeting and was then presented as take it or leave it. So those clubs who might have wanted to consult fans had no opportunity to do so.
How very insightful!! That's pretty much 100%.
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I've been to quite a few meetings like that in my time. Then a few days later all hell breaks loose and you think "well, what they were saying seemed to make sense."
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I appreciate I'm not an "insider" SM but I disagree.
It's clear that the powers that be want PL U21 teams in the Football League. They think, rightly or wrongly, that it will improve the development of young players and therefore the long-term fortunes of the national team.
It seems to me very clearly that this JPT idea is being used as a foot in the door for a restructuring of the league system. It's being dressed up as a way to "keep the competition alive" but I'm very sceptical as to how it will actually do that? Will it improve attendances? I doubt it. On the national football forums I read, the vast majority of fans would refuse to attend the games. Surely most clubs would want to EARN a tie at a top PL ground in a cup competition and play in front of a full house, rather than playing in front of a few thousand against their reserves.
Will it make the games more exciting? I very much doubt that either. If we thought it was more entertaining to watch Premier League players, surely we'd just do that rather than watching Donny/Barnet/Leyton Orient/Swindon/whoever else.
We all know that a handful of games in the JPT isn't going to make any difference to the development of young players as it's a drop in the ocean, but if they test the water and a few thousand local plastic fans turn up because they want to watch Man U ressies in the JPT, they will hail it a success and we'll move closer to having PL U21 teams foisted on us in the league. Use a competition that not a lot of people care about/value to test the model, and then step it up from there.
I agree the JPT needs some changes to liven it up but I don't see how this will do it, and I can tell that yet again the rest of us are being made to dance to the FA and the Premier League's tune in the name of making the competition more exciting.
I'm ashamed that DRFC have voted in favour.
pib,
just to clarify the club didn't vote in favour.
I'm just a football fan like you are, I just chose (or it chose me) to become involved in the politics of these things 20 years ago, therefore being an insider seems an odd choice to use. But we are, (and there are many more like me), people who choose to involve themselves in various aspects of fan issues. We have a very strong governance team who take these issues seriously. Not only that but we have the weight of various bodies, institutions, authorities, and other heavyweight bodies that we can throw at these arguments.
The worry would be, as you point out, that this could be used as a way of restructuring the leagues. But the FL have already released details of how they are seeking to restructure the leagues so why would they choose this as the vehicle? If you mean will it demonstrate that PL U21 teams can be an asset to the FL then I personally think that will backfire, if in fact that is their position. And it will backfire for one reason only, and that is there is no appetite from supporters to see this happen. That means that attendances will be low and will therefore fail at the very first hurdle. Yes the PL could throw more money in their direction but empty stadiums will kill it off.
You're right to show concern but I wouldn't be overly worried, there's enough FL clubs out there who will seal its fate.
Sorry SM. The "insider" comment wasn't indended to be derisory towards you in any way. Thanks for offering some clarity on the club's position.
I guess I am just very cynical. As someone with little knowledge beyond what is publicly available, I find it hard to accept that the views of supporters will be taken into account. (And that's not to say that there aren't many people working hard to make supporters' voices heard.)
We've seen it in action here with the JPT. No consultation, and clubs seem to be over a barrel to accept it. Probably because some money has been waved at them. Not that I have that much faith in the intentions of some club officials across the FL anyway.
Seen it before as well with the Belles when they were inexplicably demoted. Money makes the world go round and football authorities seem to largely do what they want.