The new Football League Trophy

[drfc1951]

Latest position. DRFC still silent.

http://www.againstleague3.co.uk/efl-voting-tracker/

Why havent the board made a statement yet?

[The Red Baron]

Latest position. DRFC still silent.

http://www.againstleague3.co.uk/efl-voting-tracker/

Why havent the board made a statement yet?

Probably because no-one has asked them. I understand both the DFP and the VSC plan to do so.

However I think a lot of key players are on holiday at the moment.

[Copps is Magic]

Bolton are an interesting case study. They previously had category one academy but have recently downgraded themselves to category two to save money - thought to be because it's too expensive to maintain and they can't compete with the likes of Man City and Chelsea. They have voted against the proposed change.

[RedJ]

Latest position. DRFC still silent.

http://www.againstleague3.co.uk/efl-voting-tracker/

Why havent the board made a statement yet?

Probably because no-one has asked them. I understand both the DFP and the VSC plan to do so.

Can we have a statement from the VSC confirming this please.

[The Red Baron]

I saw something on Twitter to that effect yesterday.

[Muttley]

Latest position. DRFC still silent.

http://www.againstleague3.co.uk/efl-voting-tracker/

Why havent the board made a statement yet?

Probably because no-one has asked them. I understand both the DFP and the VSC plan to do so.

Can we have a statement from the VSC confirming this please.

Silent Majority has confirmed to me in the VSC Members section that the VSC will be asking the question.

I've also just asked on Twitter, as have some others.

[RoversAlias]

I'm not attending these games, simple as that. It is the only way we can show our displeasure in a way thst the pwoers that be will even notice.

I fear this is the first step towards the end of our lovely league pyramid system.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

I'm not attending these games, simple as that. It is the only way we can show our displeasure in a way thst the pwoers that be will even notice.

I fear this is the first step towards the end of our lovely league pyramid system.

Neither will I, it's a poor idea.

[Sammy Chung was King]

So if this is happening, then our under 21's can play in the FA vase and the conference cup or whatever it's called nowadays?.

[RedJ]

Aye, cos that change has obviously been voted on and the Conference Cup revived, at random. Yep.

[Mike_F]

I think Sammy meant the FA Trophy...

[silent majority]

I really hope fans, and clubs if possible, boycott this now completely pointless competition.

The clubs voted for it.

Under how much duress?

Probably quite a bit.

[silent majority]

Latest position. DRFC still silent.

http://www.againstleague3.co.uk/efl-voting-tracker/

Why havent the board made a statement yet?

Probably because no-one has asked them. I understand both the DFP and the VSC plan to do so.

Can we have a statement from the VSC confirming this please.

Silent Majority has confirmed to me in the VSC Members section that the VSC will be asking the question.

I've also just asked on Twitter, as have some others.

We have had a chat about it. As always these things are never black and white and the consultation period was a) very short b) didn't include supporter consultation which we all know goes against the ethos at our club.

The focus for DRFC next season is promotion, anything else really comes a long way down the list.

[Copps is Magic]

Surely this is a case of black and white.

[silent majority]

Surely this is a case of black and white.

No its not. The changes to the competition are tied in with new rule changes on player availability (as in full strength teams), the status of the EPPP academies, fixture congestion, financial viability of certain games and various other factors. All of this still has to be worked out making a vote a little premature.

[silent majority]

I always find this voting at football AGMs complete nonsense.

It's a representative of the club that gets a vote, usually the chairman/chief executive/secretary  - a lot of whom put the business interests of the company (pound signs) before the interests of their managers.

Any proposed change will always get presented as a big fat, beneficial juicy carrot that's good for your club, good for revenue, etc, purely because the people behind the proposed changes want it to go ahead and want to force it through.

The people who should be voting on these changes are the managers/coaches - I'd even take more notice of the physio's opinion than a money-orientated chairman/chief executive.

Managers/coaches/physios will at least have an understanding on how it'll impact the players - and whether's it's actually beneficial from a football perspective and not a money perspective.

The Football League Trophy is a joke competition anyway, until the latter stages. It's an even bigger joke competition now the Premier League have effectively got their claws into it.

When Leyton Orient (or any other bog standard, bog average lower league club) get to a final at Wembley, they want to be playing against a proper senior team - not potentially Chelsea's Under 21s, who will pass the ball around in pretty triangles for 90 f**king minutes.

Which is why a proper consultation period becomes important and also why it distracts from our objective of promotion next season.

[Copps is Magic]

The question was which way has the club voted.

[RedJ]

At a guess, judging by the response, we've voted for it.

Hopefully I'm wrong.

[silent majority]

At a guess, judging by the response, we've voted for it.

Hopefully I'm wrong.

The club didn't vote, it didn't get that far.

It was a very qualified yes from most EFL clubs. Most clubs have said the competition does need to be looked at, it even needs a new sponsor, but our next season is focused on automatic promotion rather than this.

[The Red Baron]

Surely this is a case of black and white.

No its not. The changes to the competition are tied in with new rule changes on player availability (as in full strength teams), the status of the EPPP academies, fixture congestion, financial viability of certain games and various other factors. All of this still has to be worked out making a vote a little premature.

Is this connected to the vote that is going to take place next year, SM? On the 20 team Leagues that is?

I agree that it would have made sense to consider the FL Trophy (and the League Cup) at the same time.

However I have a theory that they went down this road because they couldn't find a suitable commercial sponsor for this season's competition. That doesn't mean I agree with the outcome, but it would explain a lot.

One question that does need answering though is whether FL teams will be able to make large numbers of changes for these games. Seems unfair, to say the least, if only the PL teams are allowed to use this competition to develop their young players.

[Mike_F]

PLEASE don't bow to the numpties who've scrapped the history of THE Football League by using their "EFL" name.

[Chris Black come back]

Remember the campaign JR waged about getting on some FA board?

Classic JR.

He did loads of media telling them they were wrong and how they probably wouldn't let him join as he would shake everything up.

Unsurprisingly the suits did exactly that.

To which JR hen recycled his media campaign telling them they were all wrong and in effect he had won as they were always going to do this so it was no surprise.

John Ryan/Geoff Boycott.
Geoff Boycott//John Ryan.

[pib]

Very disappointing that the club has voted in favour. 

I don't doubt that we are focused on promotion, but I'm fearful that we are trivialising an issue that, for me, sets a worrying precedent.

I wouldn't be surprised to see the support of FL clubs "bought" again when they inevitably try to introduce PL U21 teams into the Football League itself.  I can realistically see that happening within the next few years, and if it does I certainly won't be going to watch any more.

[silent majority]

pib, the FL are keen to keep the competition alive, and for that reason I can live with the decision for the time being, especially since the rules of the competition need to be worked out. Plus, there is a very large number of clubs who voted yes are now actively questioning how this needs to be set up so as to benefit the FL clubs and not the academies of the PL clubs. I do trust them to make this happen.

However to then connect it with an idea that hasn't been mooted yet is a very large stretch. The restructuring of the FL itself has only just been put out for consultation and that itself wont happen any time soon, if at all. The FSF and others have agreed to debate and consult, in fact we're holding a workshop with the incoming new Chair of the FL next month with this as the topic. As I've said before these things are never black or white and a vote either way doesn't mean that much at this stage.

[pib]

I appreciate I'm not an "insider" SM but I disagree.

It's clear that the powers that be want PL U21 teams in the Football League.  They think, rightly or wrongly, that it will improve the development of young players and therefore the long-term fortunes of the national team.

It seems to me very clearly that this JPT idea is being used as a foot in the door for a restructuring of the league system.  It's being dressed up as a way to "keep the competition alive" but I'm very sceptical as to how it will actually do that?  Will it improve attendances? I doubt it.  On the national football forums I read, the vast majority of fans would refuse to attend the games.  Surely most clubs would want to EARN a tie at a top PL ground in a cup competition and play in front of a full house, rather than playing in front of a few thousand against their reserves.

Will it make the games more exciting?  I very much doubt that either.  If we thought it was more entertaining to watch Premier League players, surely we'd just do that rather than watching Donny/Barnet/Leyton Orient/Swindon/whoever else.

We all know that a handful of games in the JPT isn't going to make any difference to the development of young players as it's a drop in the ocean, but if they test the water and a few thousand local plastic fans turn up because they want to watch Man U ressies in the JPT, they will hail it a success and we'll move closer to having PL U21 teams foisted on us in the league.  Use a competition that not a lot of people care about/value to test the model, and then step it up from there.

I agree the JPT needs some changes to liven it up but I don't see how this will do it, and I can tell that yet again the rest of us are being made to dance to the FA and the Premier League's tune in the name of making the competition more exciting.

I'm ashamed that DRFC have voted in favour.

[silent majority]

Very disappointing that the club has voted in favour. 

I don't doubt that we are focused on promotion, but I'm fearful that we are trivialising an issue that, for me, sets a worrying precedent.

I wouldn't be surprised to see the support of FL clubs "bought" again when they inevitably try to introduce PL U21 teams into the Football League itself.  I can realistically see that happening within the next few years, and if it does I certainly won't be going to watch any more.

Pib, apologies but I misled you earlier. The club didn't get chance to vote. As with most voting processes the first vote was a yes by the majority therefore the vote was carried. In that respect it was a qualified yes by the majority and we were not in favour.

[silent majority]

I appreciate I'm not an "insider" SM but I disagree.

It's clear that the powers that be want PL U21 teams in the Football League.  They think, rightly or wrongly, that it will improve the development of young players and therefore the long-term fortunes of the national team.

It seems to me very clearly that this JPT idea is being used as a foot in the door for a restructuring of the league system.  It's being dressed up as a way to "keep the competition alive" but I'm very sceptical as to how it will actually do that?  Will it improve attendances? I doubt it.  On the national football forums I read, the vast majority of fans would refuse to attend the games.  Surely most clubs would want to EARN a tie at a top PL ground in a cup competition and play in front of a full house, rather than playing in front of a few thousand against their reserves.

Will it make the games more exciting?  I very much doubt that either.  If we thought it was more entertaining to watch Premier League players, surely we'd just do that rather than watching Donny/Barnet/Leyton Orient/Swindon/whoever else.

We all know that a handful of games in the JPT isn't going to make any difference to the development of young players as it's a drop in the ocean, but if they test the water and a few thousand local plastic fans turn up because they want to watch Man U ressies in the JPT, they will hail it a success and we'll move closer to having PL U21 teams foisted on us in the league.  Use a competition that not a lot of people care about/value to test the model, and then step it up from there.

I agree the JPT needs some changes to liven it up but I don't see how this will do it, and I can tell that yet again the rest of us are being made to dance to the FA and the Premier League's tune in the name of making the competition more exciting.

I'm ashamed that DRFC have voted in favour.

pib,

just to clarify the club didn't vote in favour.

I'm just a football fan like you are, I just chose (or it chose me) to become involved in the politics of these things 20 years ago, therefore being an insider seems an odd choice to use. But we are, (and there are many more like me), people who choose to involve themselves in various aspects of fan issues. We have a very strong governance team who take these issues seriously. Not only that but we have the weight of various bodies, institutions, authorities, and other heavyweight bodies that we can throw at these arguments.

The worry would be, as you point out, that this could be used as a way of restructuring the leagues. But the FL have already released details of how they are seeking to restructure the leagues so why would they choose this as the vehicle? If you mean will it demonstrate that PL U21 teams can be an asset to the FL then I personally think that will backfire, if in fact that is their position. And it will backfire for one reason only, and that is there is no appetite from supporters to see this happen. That means that attendances will be low and will therefore fail at the very first hurdle. Yes the PL could throw more money in their direction but empty stadiums will kill it off.

You're right to show concern but I wouldn't be overly worried, there's enough FL clubs out there who will seal its fate.

[NickDRFC]

SM - forgive me if I'm wrong but didn't you write earlier that the club voted in favour? The post appears to be edited now. What caused you to think that the club had voted in favour?

[silent majority]

Latest position. DRFC still silent.

http://www.againstleague3.co.uk/efl-voting-tracker/

RB, I wouldn't trust that as an indicator of voting preferences. The truth of the matter was there was no acknowledged 'no' vote. It didn't get that far. The vote was carried on the initial show of hands for yes.

[silent majority]

SM - forgive me if I'm wrong but didn't you write earlier that the club voted in favour? The post appears to be edited now. What caused you to think that the club had voted in favour?

I did. But I've had a further chat and its been confirmed that they didn't vote at all, they didn't get the chance. It was an error on my part of which I've attempted to correct.