Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Off Topic => Topic started by: albie on December 11, 2018, 09:12:54 pm
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1922 Brady has the 48 letters, so there will be a contest if anyone steps up to challenge the Maybot.
I reckon the pimple Gove will declare.
The bloke reminds me of a zit on the arse that just won't pop.
Who else is going to try and remove the Duracells from the Maypole?
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After all that Mogg has said about her, if no-one else stands he has to or else look a complete gimp.
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He is a complete gimp.
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Great options to replace her...
The tousled haired psychopath.
The Minister for the 17th century.
The Scottish chameleon with the permanently surprised look on its ugly mug.
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Biggest crisis facing the country since 1940 and look at the bunch of chumps in the running to pick up the reins.
https://mobile.twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1072535987291635712
f**k.
Me.
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I've got to say, I'm torn.
One part of me wants it to be Johnson. Just so the odious Kitson has to deal with the vat of shit that he's prepared. Has to face the ridicule of the entire f**king world.
But the other half of me doesn't want my country being represented by that waste of an ejaculation. I have to work with a lot of non-British people. I'm not sure I could cope with the embarrassment.
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No let's have that Dominic Rhubarb. At least he's willing to learn about things such as the importance of the port of Dover.
He could have Harry Enfields Tory boy as his advisor.
And he's only 7/1 ffs!
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Dominic Raab.
To quote an old political put down, he has risen without trace.
What the f**k has he achieved in his career to put him remotely in with a chance of even being considered as PM material?
His career consists of putting forward a handful of deeply anti-working class ideas, then making a prick of himself as Brexit Secretary for 3 months.
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The process is that Tory MP's now have a vote of no confidence in the Maybot.
If over 50% back her, she is in position for at least a year.
That means any early GE will be with the Maybot at the helm...the worst nightmare for many Tory MP's.
So the MP's need to decide on whether to replace her now, with the risk of a contest splitting the party by giving the membership the vote over the new leader.
Thing is, Tory MP's and the elderly membership have little common ground over the future of the party.
The early days of a disintegration?
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The 50% figure is meaningless. If more than 80-100 Tory MPs vote against her, even a PM as unaware of the concept of humiliation as May would step down. Or be taken on one side by senior backbenchers and told to step down.
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Thank f**k for Jeremy Corbyn - Our saviour in waiting!
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ABB anyone but boris
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Just when you think the crock of s**t COULD NOT get worse - and now this mess as well
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Just when you think the crock of s**t COULD NOT get worse - and now this mess as well
Sorry DW this has been predicted for some time, but what a mess!
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Like the referendum and the rest of the Country, the Tory Party had a vote, surely they can’t have another vote because they don’t like what they’ve got 😂😂😂
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Deeply depressing thought.
The referendum was supposed to sort out for a generation, who ruled the Tory party.
(Those of you who think it was about giving you a say in taking back control...ahhh, bless!)
It has f**ked the country and we are still no closer to finding an end to the Tory party's civil war.
This isn't going to stop, no matter what the outcome. The utterly dysfunctional Right in our politics is going to carry on thrashing about in this battle and we are all going to have a much more difficult future as a result.
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Biggest crisis facing the country since 1940 and look at the bunch of chumps in the running to pick up the reins.
https://mobile.twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1072535987291635712
f**k.
Me.
It’s a bad squad isn’t it. I literally couldn’t pick the best of a bad bunch.
Live just been thinking though, just imagine the stress May must be under, it must take its toll. I know it’s been brought on by herself and her party but she must be exhausted.
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Biggest crisis facing the country since 1940 and look at the bunch of chumps in the running to pick up the reins.
https://mobile.twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1072535987291635712
f**k.
Me.
It’s a bad squad isn’t it. I literally couldn’t pick the best of a bad bunch.
Live just been thinking though, just imagine the stress May must be under, it must take its toll. I know it’s been brought on by herself and her party but she must be exhausted.
Everyone of them is certainly better than anything labour can cough up
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Lets see what todays "sound bite / dogmatic saying is"
Strong and stable Lectern ? Even that cant believe it - and is playing up like the Letters at their Conf
Stuck and stubborn Car door
Maybe Sir Graham Brady will be saying later to her " we have to honour the result of the Tory Voters" BUT imo she will klingon (sic) - either way its still a s**t storm (Cheers Cameron - Mogg Johnson Gove etc etc)
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Gaz
The stress of being PM must be beyond belief at the best of times. It can't be healthy. It times of crisis, it will be off the scale.
During the Suez Crisis (another existential national crisis brought on by sheer incompetence from a Tory Govt...there's a pattern here) Anthony Eden was guzzling down Speed in order to keep going. Working 24 hours a day trying to walk a tightrope between losing Britain's position as a Great Power and starting WWIII. When the crisis was over, he had a nervous breakdown and was packaged off to the Carribbean for six weeks to recover.
Everyone who becomes PM will go through experiences that we can barely imagine. Where the stakes are mountainously high and their options limited. I genuinely don't know why any sane person would want that.
As a human being, I do have sympathy for May. It must be a horrific experience.
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I think she might survive, which then puts the ball in the Tory rebels court to back Labour in a no cofidence motion
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I think she might survive, which then puts the ball in the Tory rebels court to back Labour in a no cofidence motion
If she survives there cannot be another leadership vote for another year can there?
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She's contesting the challenge. f**king hell, just go!
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I think she might survive, which then puts the ball in the Tory rebels court to back Labour in a no cofidence motion
If she survives there cannot be another leadership vote for another year can there?
In the Tory Party, but what about a HoC motion?
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No there can't.
One thought.
What a bunch of self-serving t**ts those loathsome flat-earthers in the ERG are.
The country's biggest crisis in generations and they choose to tip us into even deeper confusion.
We're 3 months away from the Leave date. We have no plan, no policy, no deal. By midnight we might not even have a PM. If that happens, we'll spend the next month flailing around trying to find out what we think our policy and leader should be. At THIS time of all times.
They do not give a f**k how badly the country gets damaged by a this. It's all about them taking the reins of power.
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Filo
A HoC confidence vote can be brought at any time.
Ideal result for Labour: May wins tonight, but Lab has a deal with the DUP that they would vote against the Govt in a vote of confidence.
Normally in a confidence vote, a loss doesn't automatically trigger a GE. It may be just a mechanism for the House getting rid of the PM and having them replaced by one who could command the confidence of the House.
But in this scenario, the Tory party would have just backed May. If the House then votes no confidence in HER Govt, I can't see any way the Tory party could replace her as PM and them carry in in Govt. It would have to be a minority Lab Govt or a GE.
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Surely this one's against current Tory leadership but a Labour one would be no confidence in the current government?
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DO.
Precisely.
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Filo
A HoC confidence vote can be brought at any time.
Ideal result for Labour: May wins tonight, but Lab has a deal with the DUP that they would vote against the Govt in a vote of confidence.
Normally in a confidence vote, a loss doesn't automatically trigger a GE. It may be just a mechanism for the House getting rid of the PM and having them replaced by one who could command the confidence of the House.
But in this scenario, the Tory party would have just backed May. If the House then votes no confidence in HER Govt, I can't see any way the Tory party could replace her as PM and them carry in in Govt. It would have to be a minority Lab Govt or a GE.
But the ERG don’t want May, if they lose the vote tonight the only other option for them would be to back an opposition no confidence motion
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No. Because they prefer May to Corbyn.
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No. Because they prefer May to Corbyn.
But then they are stuck with something they are strongly against
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No. Because they prefer May to Corbyn.
But then they are stuck with something they are strongly against
But If they lose they accept defeat and move on as she's the least worse option. It would not surprise me if she won.
Let's not forget if Labour had the same rules as the Tories, Corbyn would not be leader.
Ironic that despite all of this, with the public May is still polling top as the person to lead Brexit. That stuns me.
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BFYP
We're in bizarre times.
The opposition faces the most hapless, hopeless PM and Govt for three generations, is behind them in the polls and tells itself it's playing a blinder.
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Donny Dog has probably got more chance of becoming PM but I quite like Alan Duncan as an MP. He always seems to come across as a pretty intelligent, rational bloke.
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The DUP might be open to backing Corbyn though.
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The DUP might be open to backing Corbyn though.
Highly doubt it
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/11924431/Revealed-Jeremy-Corbyn-and-John-McDonnells-close-IRA-links.html
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BS.
Times move on. The Rev Ian Paisley ended up on friendly working terms with Martin McGuinness.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/northernireland/11093656/Martin-McGuinness-fights-back-tears-during-Dr-Ian-Paisley-tribute.html
When grown-ups need to act like grown-ups to get things done, it's surprising what alliances can be formed. You've regularly shown that you think people on the Left are cartoon baddies. The real world doesn't work like that.
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The DUP voted with Labour to find the government in contempt recently. They'll do what's best for their agenda. If they think that means voting with labour, they'll do it.
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BS.
Times move on. The Rev Ian Paisley ended up on friendly working terms with Martin McGuinness.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/northernireland/11093656/Martin-McGuinness-fights-back-tears-during-Dr-Ian-Paisley-tribute.html
When grown-ups need to act like grown-ups to get things done, it's surprising what alliances can be formed. You've regularly shown that you think people on the Left are cartoon baddies. The real world doesn't work like that.
Do you think the dup would piss off their supporter base by getting into bed with Corbyn ?
It would be suicide for them.
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The DUP voted with Labour to find the government in contempt recently. They'll do what's best for their agenda. If they think that means voting with labour, they'll do it.
Kinda a different senario
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BS.
Times move on. The Rev Ian Paisley ended up on friendly working terms with Martin McGuinness.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/northernireland/11093656/Martin-McGuinness-fights-back-tears-during-Dr-Ian-Paisley-tribute.html
When grown-ups need to act like grown-ups to get things done, it's surprising what alliances can be formed. You've regularly shown that you think people on the Left are cartoon baddies. The real world doesn't work like that.
Do you think the dup would piss off their supporter base by getting into bed with Corbyn ?
It would be suicide for them.
You mean like how it was political suicide for them to work with Sinn Fein?
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Here's some food for thought.
https://twitter.com/carolecadwalla/status/1072798035757973504
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Here's some food for thought.
https://twitter.com/carolecadwalla/status/1072798035757973504
Phew.
Putin eh? He's got the POTUS in his pocket. He tried funding LePen to become French President. Now it looks like he'd trying to tip the decision on who will be British PM.
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It looks like TM will survive, for now.
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10 tory mp’s have said they’ll withdraw the whip if Johnson or Rees-mogg become leader
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It looks like TM will survive, for now.
Maybe, but then...
https://www.drfc-vsc.co.uk/index.php?topic=268170.msg820892#msg820892
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It looks like TM will survive, for now.
How many of those publicly backing here are going to knife in the back in a secret ballot?
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Donny Dog has probably got more chance of becoming PM but I quite like Alan Duncan as an MP. He always seems to come across as a pretty intelligent, rational bloke.
Absolutely.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6xO4xEebNU
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It looks like TM will survive, for now.
How many of those publicly backing here are going to knife in the back in a secret ballot?
That is the only question to be answered really - if they do back her in private she wins. Nowhere left for them to go then. The signs are that she will win and it may, just may make her stronger, ironically as it did Corbyn in the end.
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BS.
Times move on. The Rev Ian Paisley ended up on friendly working terms with Martin McGuinness.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/northernireland/11093656/Martin-McGuinness-fights-back-tears-during-Dr-Ian-Paisley-tribute.html
When grown-ups need to act like grown-ups to get things done, it's surprising what alliances can be formed. You've regularly shown that you think people on the Left are cartoon baddies. The real world doesn't work like that.
Do you think the dup would piss off their supporter base by getting into bed with Corbyn ?
It would be suicide for them.
You mean like how it was political suicide for them to work with Sinn Fein?
Again, kinda different.
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I'm struggling to see how today can possibly make her stronger.
Assume 50 Tory MPs vote against her.
Given that the DUP viscerally hate her deal, that means that she's lost the support of all-but 265 Tory MPs, in a House of Commons of 650 seats. That would be utterly unprecedented, as far as i can see, in our entire Parliamentary history. She might just about be able to limp on in that situation, but she'd have totally lost any sense of authority.
If 100 Tory MPs vote against her, she cannot possibly continue, having the confidence of fewer than 1 MP in 3.
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It looks like TM will survive, for now.
How many of those publicly backing here are going to knife in the back in a secret ballot?
That is the only question to be answered really - if they do back her in private she wins. Nowhere left for them to go then. The signs are that she will win and it may, just may make her stronger, ironically as it did Corbyn in the end.
It would make her safer but I wouldn't agree it would make her stronger. She's pissed off a lot of MPs this week that she didn't need to. They ain't going to forget that just because she wins a confidence vote.
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BS
Thought it might be. Do you want to expand on that?
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Think about May's position.
She became PM through back room manoeuvring, without a vote.
She turned an unassailable position in April 2017 into a humiliating and unprecedented loss in June 2017.
She's now lost the support of at least 15% of her minority party.
I'm struggling to think of any PM in our history who has had less authority. It makes John Major and Jim Callaghan look like He-Man.
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BS
Thought it might be. Do you want to expand on that?
Don't need to, anyone with more than one brain cell can understand.
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BS.
Times move on. The Rev Ian Paisley ended up on friendly working terms with Martin McGuinness.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/northernireland/11093656/Martin-McGuinness-fights-back-tears-during-Dr-Ian-Paisley-tribute.html
When grown-ups need to act like grown-ups to get things done, it's surprising what alliances can be formed. You've regularly shown that you think people on the Left are cartoon baddies. The real world doesn't work like that.
Do you think the dup would piss off their supporter base by getting into bed with Corbyn ?
It would be suicide for them.
You mean like how it was political suicide for them to work with Sinn Fein?
Again, kinda different.
Aye, they were more likely to get shot working with Sinn Fein than they are working with Labour.
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BS
Thought it might be. Do you want to expand on that?
Don't need to, anyone with more than one brain cell can understand.
Yes, I can think of lots of differences between working with Sinn Fein and Labour. Kinda like to know which differences you're thinking of though.
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BS
Thought it might be. Do you want to expand on that?
Don't need to, anyone with more than one brain cell can understand.
Anyone else get it?
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BS
Thought it might be. Do you want to expand on that?
Don't need to, anyone with more than one brain cell can understand.
Bloody condescending bullying Brexiters, eh?
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Maybe we should campaign for Boomstick for PM.
He ain't got a clue either.
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Maybe we should campaign for Boomstick for PM.
He ain't got a clue either.
At least May has balls and stands her ground. BS fecks off the second he paints himself into a corner.
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Really, if you can't understand my point, then it really is pointless in explaining it.
Kinda like explaining chess to a tardigrade. (Feel free to Google what one is)
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Really, if you can't understand my point, then it really is pointless in explaining it.
Kinda like explaining chess to a tardigrade.
Try us.
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Really, if you can't understand my point, then it really is pointless in explaining it.
Kinda like explaining chess to a tardigrade.
Try us.
Christ, it's like going round in circles with you lot.
If you can't see my point it's either because you refuse to, or haven't got the knowledge to.
Either way it's pointless engaging in a civil debate with you lot.
Somehow I doubt you would be this hostile if we were to have this conversation in person
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Winning the vote tonight makes her stronger within the Tory party, as she cannot then be challenged for a year.
It also puts the hard Brexiteers on the backfoot, as they have shot their bolt at replacing her.
Conversely, it weakens the government to the point of impotence. The position appears to be support May as leader, but at the same time reject her Brexit deal.
The DUP will not support the backstop, the EU will not change it.
The government do not have the HoC numbers to govern, and can muddle on only by mutual agreements.
Effectively, the UK is without clear direction until a new GE. But the Tory MP's do not want another election campaign led by the hopeless Maybot.
Another consideration is that if May steps down, the party membership might have the chance to choose the bumwipe BoJo as new leader. The MP's don't want to risk that, a Trumpalike cuckoo coup.
Next step is a vote of no confidence in the government, which Labour will move in the near future. Tories will then be expected to support the paralysed administration, despite not being able to function effectively.
The important issue then will be how the disaffected will vote...not just the DUP, but Tory rebels as well.
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Really, if you can't understand my point, then it really is pointless in explaining it.
Kinda like explaining chess to a tardigrade.
Try us.
Christ, it's like going round in circles with you lot.
If you can't see my point it's either because you refuse to, or haven't got the knowledge to.
Either way it's pointless engaging in a civil debate with you lot.
Somehow I doubt you would be this hostile if we were to have this conversation in person
"I have no actual point so I'm going to talk b*llocks to disguise that fact and hope it washes"
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Really, if you can't understand my point, then it really is pointless in explaining it.
Kinda like explaining chess to a tardigrade.
Try us.
Christ, it's like going round in circles with you lot.
If you can't see my point it's either because you refuse to, or haven't got the knowledge to.
Either way it's pointless engaging in a civil debate with you lot.
Somehow I doubt you would be this hostile if we were to have this conversation in person
We can't see your point because you haven't made one. All you've said - twice - is 'Kinda different.' And you expect everyone else to know what you're talking about, and if they can't they haven't got two brain cells?
I'm not hostile, just pissed off with someone like you who spouts b*llocks and then blames everybody else when it doesn't wash with them.
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How low can these bas**rds stoop, they have given the whip back to a tory MP that was suspended for sexual harrassment so he can vote for May tonight
Infact they’ve restored the whip to 2 suspended MP’s today!!!!
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Here's a thought.
5 of the last 7 Tory leaders have faced votes of no confidence or direct challenges from their own MPs.
Heath
Thatcher
Major
Duncan-Smith
May
Two (Hague and Howard) were hammered in General Elections and resigned immediately afterwards and the other one (Cameron) resigned after losing a referendum.
During that time, one Labour leader has faced a challenge from a colleague (Corbyn in 2016), three have resigned after GE defeats that were closer than the two Tory defeats above (Kinnock, Brown and Milliband), three have resigned at times of their own choosing (Wilson, Callaghan, Blair) and one died in office (Smith).
Strong and Stable Tories eh?
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The DUP might be open to backing Corbyn though.
Highly doubt it
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/11924431/Revealed-Jeremy-Corbyn-and-John-McDonnells-close-IRA-links.html
Even though less than 2 weeks ago Arlene Foster said that May's Brexit deal was worse than a Corbyn government?
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6423527/DUP-leader-Arlene-Foster-blasts-Mays-Brexit-deal-worse-Corbyn-government.html
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surely it can't be this one
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/sep/07/boris-johnson-wife-affair-tories-party-cheat-liar
lest we forget David Davis should have become PM in 2005 but Cameroon spouted more $hite in the debates
amazing what you can find
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IalSiKGMCqA
i'm going to watch this now
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surely it can't be this one
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/sep/07/boris-johnson-wife-affair-tories-party-cheat-liar
lest we forget David Davis should have become PM in 2005 but Cameroon spouted more $hite in the debates
amazing what you can find
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IalSiKGMCqA
i'm going to watch this now
He'd have had trouble becoming PM in 2005...
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Broomstick whats your point so I don't have to read 3 pages of this.
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I think it's got summat to do with chess.
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200-117. She can't survive that.
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200-117. She can't survive that.
We keep saying, but she’s like that stubborn bit of shit on your shoes, it’s still there no matter how many times you wipe it in the grass
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Cant knock her fight and she will keep fighting. However, it may well be a step towards a no deal.
Arguably the worst result. Won't put the hard liners to bed or kill her off...
They can't now remove her as leader so the focus is on other means. She's stubborn and can't see her giving in.
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200-117. She can't survive that.
We keep saying, but she’s like that stubborn bit of shit on your shoes, it’s still there no matter how many times you wipe it in the grass
Right, so you want her gone, then what ?
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Cant knock her fight and she will keep fighting. However, it may well be a step towards a no deal.
Arguably the worst result. Won't put the hard liners to bed or kill her off...
They can't now remove her as leader so the focus is on other means. She's stubborn and can't see her giving in.
They have other means, if the ERG really want her out that bad, the can vote out in a opposition no confidence motion, but as someone else has said they won’t do that for fear of losing their own jobs
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The ERG will not support the May deal, neither will the DUP.
As Mayhem cannot deliver her deal through the HoC, the default becomes no deal.
The HoC will not allow that, and so will amend the May deal once it fails to gain support, via the Grieve amendment.
The only way to give more time is to revoke article 50, and cancel the March deadline to leave.
Back to square one, but with no means to move forward and break the logjam.
The PM is dead in the water, and she seems to be the only person who cannot see it. Continuing to hope for the best will not cut it.
The whole shebang needs a reset from the stalemate.
EDIT;
The power of abstention could come into play.
If Labour moves a vote of no confidence in the government, then ERG/DUP have a decision to make....not voting might get them out of a hole!
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She should go just for this ...... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0g-46AtwSM
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So January 21st 2019 it is then.
If May does decide to bring her deal to the HoC then it's now clear it will loose by over 200 votes, she will most likely have to resign, and Albie's scenario will come to pass.
If she doesn't then Corbyn will need to bring the no confidence vote and see if 15 or so of those Tories who dont have confidence in Mrs May as leader of the Tory Party feel the same way about her as PM.
That will gives us something to look forward too.
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Reminiscent of Thatcher beating Heseltine on a first vote in 1990. Saying that she intended to go on. Then the Cabinet going in to see her one by one and telling her that the game was up.
Mind, as somone said on the radio this morning, if someone went in to give May a bottle of whisky and a revolver, she'd drink the whisky and shoot the messenger.
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Worth noting that, even after she went to the 1922 Committee this afternoon and humiliated herself further by saying "if you vote for me, I promise I'll stand down before the next GE", May still won the votes of less than half of the Tory backbenchers.
And she now has the support of 200 MPs out of 650.
Totally unprecedented that a PM can have so little support and still cling on.
Next opinion poll that asks which main party leader would make the best PM will be interesting. Corbyn has been 10+% behind May on that question for 18 months. If he can't overtake her now, I wonder what the disciples of St Jeremy will make of it.
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So January 21st 2019 it is then.
If May does decide to bring her deal to the HoC then it's now clear it will loose by over 200 votes, she will most likely have to resign, and Albie's scenario will come to pass.
If she doesn't then Corbyn will need to bring the no confidence vote and see if 15 or so of those Tories who dont have confidence in Mrs May as leader of the Tory Party feel the same way about her as PM.
That will gives us something to look forward too.
Ah, but a No Confidence vote in the HOC would be of No Confidence in the government, not the PM.
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Labour won't win a No Conf vote against the Govt. The DUP have said they'll vote with the Govt.
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Labour won't win a No Conf vote against the Govt. The DUP have said they'll vote with the Govt.
For now
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Yep
We're still in a maelstrom.
The ERG has said tonight that it won't back May's deal, and said so in bellicose language.
So, realistically, she's not going to be able to get any warm words from the EU that can get Parliament to vote for her deal.
So, come 21 Jan, we're 9 weeks away from Brexit Day, with no deal, but also a Parliament determined to make sure there is no No Deal. And a PM supported by only a slack handful of MPs who aren't paid Govt ministers or underlings.
If that's not a great big screaming f**king crisis, I don't know what is.
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The clusterf**k remains.. the brexit deal won’t get passed, so I can imagine May will ask for a delay to article 50..
Despite the numbers of MPs voting against May, that vote gave her a far bigger majority percentage wise than the last GE and the brexit referendum.!
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The clusterf**k remains.. the brexit deal won’t get passed, so I can imagine May will ask for a delay to article 50..
Despite the numbers of MPs voting against May, that vote gave her a far bigger majority percentage wise than the last GE and the brexit referendum.!
Indeed - the shadow chancellor's tweet last night about it was laughable given his own party's recent history aswell. But that is politics.
BST is right a crisis is in play and no deal looms bigger every day. An extension is likely unless the EU budges, which is likely but how big.
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BFYP
There won't be a No Deal Brexit. Full stop. There is a 500-150 majority in Parliament against that.
In fact, probably more than that. All but a slack handful of ideological obsessives know that it would be a catastrophe. What the likes of Rees-Mogg etc are doing is playing to the Tory membership and the gullible 30% of the electorate, so that, when there is a sensible deal or a referendum resulting in Remain, and May has gone they can say, "We told you they'd betray you and they did. You and I both know that No Deal was the best way, and you've been cheated. But I and my colleagues never betrayed you. Vote for us in the future and we'll always be on your side."
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BFYP
There won't be a No Deal Brexit. Full stop. There is a 500-150 majority in Parliament against that.
At the moment.
You can't rule anything out in these extraordinary times.
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I dont mind betting that they do not hold a meaningful vote
After all the Tory Chairman has just said they WILL hold such a vote but - they said that up to the same MINUTE as they pulled it - so my got feeling is they will continue to play for time
I see nowt wrong - even though there is no time - in holding a Vote to see if we want a Peoples Vote ! Sounds bizarre but why not. If it ends 51 49 to NOT have another Vote then thats fine - Leave the EU "as planned".
However if it is the other way then hold a Peoples Vote because even at 51 49 that way it may still produce a Leave Vote again ?
Personally I was too young to remember Suez crisis but I have to say this is the biggest most annoying divisive sh** storm I have ever lived through and like millions of others I am just totally p****d off with all of it (but like a car crash - I cant stop watching / listening) Roll on Saturday for normality
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The clusterf**k remains.. the brexit deal won’t get passed, so I can imagine May will ask for a delay to article 50..
Despite the numbers of MPs voting against May, that vote gave her a far bigger majority percentage wise than the last GE and the brexit referendum.!
Indeed - the shadow chancellor's tweet last night about it was laughable given his own party's recent history aswell. But that is politics.
BST is right a crisis is in play and no deal looms bigger every day. An extension is likely unless the EU budges, which is likely but how big.
.... and another thing I spotted (Political spin again) 33% ish voted against her - which she says she has noted. In her opening Statement of the 5 days debate she said - and I quote loosely - when we held a Referendum in 1975 on whether to Remain in the Common Market /EEC there were already a huge 33% of those Voting who already wanted to leave !
Spot the difference ? Yes she a politician so 33 one way is trivial 33 the "right" way is huge !
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I cannot see how - regardless of what happens with a Commons vote, further EU negotiations, a people’s vote on having another referendum - the article 50 deadline of 29 March will not be delayed.
There simply isn’t enough time to sort anything else out other than no deal, which benefits no one..
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Peter Oborne is on the money, as usual.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-6489623/PETER-OBORNE-wanted-assassinate-Mrs-Instead-silly-fools-blown-up.html
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BFYP
There won't be a No Deal Brexit. Full stop. There is a 500-150 majority in Parliament against that.
In fact, probably more than that. All but a slack handful of ideological obsessives know that it would be a catastrophe. What the likes of Rees-Mogg etc are doing is playing to the Tory membership and the gullible 30% of the electorate, so that, when there is a sensible deal or a referendum resulting in Remain, and May has gone they can say, "We told you they'd betray you and they did. You and I both know that No Deal was the best way, and you've been cheated. But I and my colleagues never betrayed you. Vote for us in the future and we'll always be on your side."
And that in itself assumes that a number of labour MPs will back her - can't see that right now.
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I hereby declare that a) I will not read this Thread or similar ones anywhere and b) I will as of now avoid the News from wherever and whenever it comes
There seems to be no point because it looks like a total s**t storm and the Country is so divided all you get are the same 2 opposing views. Eventually we will Leave and it might eventually prove to be a good thing but we wont know that for ages or we will Leave and it will go t**s up and we may not know that for ages or within a year or two
Or we may eventually get a Second Vote which means we Remain in the EU and we will have to see whether that works or not for us.
Personally I now DONT CARE one way or another now - so I will stick to Football
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Hear hear.! There is f**k all we can do about it unless there is another vote..
Let’s give Scunthorpe a good beating on Saturday and look forward to a happy Christmas.!
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Peter Oborne is on the money, as usual.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-6489623/PETER-OBORNE-wanted-assassinate-Mrs-Instead-silly-fools-blown-up.html
Good article TRB.
Oborne raises a point that I pondered years ago but have totally forgotten until now. That Europe may well end up splitting the Tory party like it did the Labour party in the 70s/80s.
That raises a fascinating possibility.
Both main parties are horribly split between their extreme and centrist factions.
Isn't this the time that British politics could finally grow up? Have both the Labour and Tory parties split into two and have PR?
The conventional British political wisdom is that the main parties must not split, as that just gives power to the other side on a plate. Like in the 1980s, when Thatcher had 100+ majorities despite having 60% of the elctorate voting against her.
But what if BOTH Labour and the Tories split at the same time? And you ended up with 5 parties in England (Corbyn Hard Left, Blairite centre-left, Lib Dems, Ken Clarke-type centre-right and Rees-Mogg/Farage far right).
The next election would be a free-for all, but broadly, they'd all win 10-25% of the seats. No single party would win a majority or anything close to it. And there'd be a coalition. And there'd be a move towards PR.
if I were Rees-Mogg or Chukka Umunna, I'd be having a quiet word with the other side right now to explore that possibility. Both of those are in parties that they can never properly control. Both of them (and probably the country) would have a lot to gain by them acting together.
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I hereby declare that a) I will not read this Thread or similar ones anywhere and b) I will as of now avoid the News from wherever and whenever it comes
There seems to be no point because it looks like a total s**t storm and the Country is so divided all you get are the same 2 opposing views. Eventually we will Leave and it might eventually prove to be a good thing but we wont know that for ages or we will Leave and it will go t**s up and we may not know that for ages or within a year or two
Or we may eventually get a Second Vote which means we Remain in the EU and we will have to see whether that works or not for us.
Personally I now DONT CARE one way or another now - so I will stick to Football
I reckon that sums up the way lots of people are thinking at present.
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Peter Oborne is on the money, as usual.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-6489623/PETER-OBORNE-wanted-assassinate-Mrs-Instead-silly-fools-blown-up.html
Good article TRB.
Oborne raises a point that I pondered years ago but have totally forgotten until now. That Europe may well end up splitting the Tory party like it did the Labour party in the 70s/80s.
That raises a fascinating possibility.
Both main parties are horribly split between their extreme and centrist factions.
Isn't this the time that British politics could finally grow up? Have both the Labour and Tory parties split into two and have PR?
The conventional British political wisdom is that the main parties must not split, as that just gives power to the other side on a plate. Like in the 1980s, when Thatcher had 100+ majorities despite having 60% of the elctorate voting against her.
But what if BOTH Labour and the Tories split at the same time? And you ended up with 5 parties in England (Corbyn Hard Left, Blairite centre-left, Lib Dems, Ken Clarke-type centre-right and Rees-Mogg/Farage far right).
The next election would be a free-for all, but broadly, they'd all win 10-25% of the seats. No single party would win a majority or anything close to it. And there'd be a coalition. And there'd be a move towards PR.
if I were Rees-Mogg or Chukka Umunna, I'd be having a quiet word with the other side right now to explore that possibility. Both of those are in parties that they can never properly control. Both of them (and probably the country) would have a lot to gain by them acting together.
IMO a realignment of the parties, accompanied by the introduction of PR (single transferable vote) is long overdue. Bring it on.
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Agreed. I've agreed with that for many years, but never before seen a way that ot could come about. This is a once in a century chance to re-align our politics for the better.
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Agreed. I've agreed with that for many years, but never before seen a way that ot could come about. This is a once in a century chance to re-align our politics for the better.
One outcome of this show and the fact that all sides have let people down,could be that people actually start to vote for parties which they believe in and hopefully destroy the LibLabCon conspiracy.
If there is no Brexit I predict a labour win at the next GE, but huge gains on the tories by the likes of UKIP, until a viable alternative emerges, and the country going up s**t creek.
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Agreed. I've agreed with that for many years, but never before seen a way that ot could come about. This is a once in a century chance to re-align our politics for the better.
One outcome of this show and the fact that all sides have let people down,could be that people actually start to vote for parties which they believe in and hopefully destroy the LibLabCon conspiracy.
If there is no Brexit I predict a labour win at the next GE, but huge gains on the tories by the likes of UKIP, until a viable alternative emerges, and the country going up s**t creek.
Arron Banks has gome home and taken his money with him. UKIP are potless.
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Agreed. I've agreed with that for many years, but never before seen a way that ot could come about. This is a once in a century chance to re-align our politics for the better.
One outcome of this show and the fact that all sides have let people down,could be that people actually start to vote for parties which they believe in and hopefully destroy the LibLabCon conspiracy.
If there is no Brexit I predict a labour win at the next GE, but huge gains on the tories by the likes of UKIP, until a viable alternative emerges, and the country going up s**t creek.
All it needs is PR in some form or another and the extremism either way would be avoided. I am a great fan of it now - and it means every vote should count as equally as every other vote - again that should appeal to all those who say there is no point in me voting as Lab or Con always win this Seat
Its a great concept and although I am guessing it might have avoided the mess we have been in for the last 2 years (Oops just realised I said earlier that I would not read any more stuff - but at least Ive kept the News off)
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UKIP are a busted flush. When you have Farage quitting because they have gone too far to the xenophobic extreme, you know they've dropped off a cliff.
They wouldn't win a seat. Although they could pick up 5-6% of the vote and harm the Tories.
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UKIP are a busted flush. When you have Farage quitting because they have gone too far to the xenophobic extreme, you know they've dropped off a cliff.
They wouldn't win a seat. Although they could pick up 5-6% of the vote and harm the Tories.
At the moment there's no-one worth wasting a vote on. LibLabCon is a waste of time, none of them will change anything ever.
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UKIP are a busted flush. When you have Farage quitting because they have gone too far to the xenophobic extreme, you know they've dropped off a cliff.
They wouldn't win a seat. Although they could pick up 5-6% of the vote and harm the Tories.
At the moment there's no-one worth wasting a vote on. LibLabCon is a waste of time, none of them will change anything ever.
Tend to agree a little at the moment, it would be a huge vote of who's least bad....
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UKIP are a busted flush. When you have Farage quitting because they have gone too far to the xenophobic extreme, you know they've dropped off a cliff.
They wouldn't win a seat. Although they could pick up 5-6% of the vote and harm the Tories.
At the moment there's no-one worth wasting a vote on. LibLabCon is a waste of time, none of them will change anything ever.
Tend to agree a little at the moment, it would be a huge vote of who's least bad....
I would vote for a party who would seriously make an effort to cut immigration.
Stop the PC zealots from taking over every aspect of daily life.
Use only British manufacturing where possible for ALL government projects.
Raise pensions to a decent level.
Look after the NHS in return for a cut in wastefulness.
Re-nationalise the railways and all utilities.
Re-arm our armed forces with good quality equipment.
Leave NATO and stop interfering in the business of other nations.
A few of my requirements which no-one will fulfil.
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Sounds like the American President is more up your street based on those policy desires.
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Sounds like the American President is more up your street based on those policy desires.
Nah, he wants to cuts taxes and spend less. Which looks to be the exact opposite of all that.
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UKIP are a busted flush. When you have Farage quitting because they have gone too far to the xenophobic extreme, you know they've dropped off a cliff.
They wouldn't win a seat. Although they could pick up 5-6% of the vote and harm the Tories.
At the moment there's no-one worth wasting a vote on. LibLabCon is a waste of time, none of them will change anything ever.
Apart from my Reply # 105 above. THAT would change things - but dont take my word for it - just Google and see the difference it COULD make to our shattered "democracy"
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UKIP are a busted flush. When you have Farage quitting because they have gone too far to the xenophobic extreme, you know they've dropped off a cliff.
They wouldn't win a seat. Although they could pick up 5-6% of the vote and harm the Tories.
At the moment there's no-one worth wasting a vote on. LibLabCon is a waste of time, none of them will change anything ever.
Tend to agree a little at the moment, it would be a huge vote of who's least bad....
I would vote for a party who would seriously make an effort to cut immigration.
Stop the PC zealots from taking over every aspect of daily life.
Use only British manufacturing where possible for ALL government projects.
Raise pensions to a decent level.
Look after the NHS in return for a cut in wastefulness.
Re-nationalise the railways and all utilities.
Re-arm our armed forces with good quality equipment.
Leave NATO and stop interfering in the business of other nations.
A few of my requirements which no-one will fulfil.
You’re about 80 odd years out with that philosophy.. wonder which minority, or set of folks you don’t like, you would have to suffer to pay for all that.??
Leave NATO.? The mind boggles..
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UKIP are a busted flush. When you have Farage quitting because they have gone too far to the xenophobic extreme, you know they've dropped off a cliff.
They wouldn't win a seat. Although they could pick up 5-6% of the vote and harm the Tories.
At the moment there's no-one worth wasting a vote on. LibLabCon is a waste of time, none of them will change anything ever.
Tend to agree a little at the moment, it would be a huge vote of who's least bad....
I would vote for a party who would seriously make an effort to cut immigration.
Stop the PC zealots from taking over every aspect of daily life.
Use only British manufacturing where possible for ALL government projects.
Raise pensions to a decent level.
Look after the NHS in return for a cut in wastefulness.
Re-nationalise the railways and all utilities.
Re-arm our armed forces with good quality equipment.
Leave NATO and stop interfering in the business of other nations.
A few of my requirements which no-one will fulfil.
You’re about 80 odd years out with that philosophy.. wonder which minority, or set of folks you don’t like, you would have to suffer to pay for all that.??
Leave NATO.? The mind boggles..
You may mock, but I think you would find there are a lot more people out there who would agree with me than you would like to think.
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Mock.??
In a society of what, 60 or 70 million people there will always be some who veer to the extremes of political views.. sometimes more than others..
Doesn’t make them right though..
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Mock.??
In a society of what, 60 or 70 million people there will always be some who veer to the extremes of political views.. sometimes more than others..
Doesn’t make them right though..
What was extreme in the policies I suggested? I would have said common sense poilicies that Joe Soap would vote for. The problem is that everytime anyone starts to get anywhere with the like they are trashed by the MSM,MI5,Special Branch etc.
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Mock.??
In a society of what, 60 or 70 million people there will always be some who veer to the extremes of political views.. sometimes more than others..
Doesn’t make them right though..
Profile of the Sociopath
Glibness and Superficial Charm.
Manipulative and Conning. They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors as permissible. ...
Grandiose Sense of Self. ...
Pathological Lying. ...
Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt. ...
Shallow Emotions. ...
Incapacity for Love.
Need for Stimulation.
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Mock.??
In a society of what, 60 or 70 million people there will always be some who veer to the extremes of political views.. sometimes more than others..
Doesn’t make them right though..
What was extreme in the policies I suggested? I would have said common sense poilicies that Joe Soap would vote for. The problem is that everytime anyone starts to get anywhere with the like they are trashed by the MSM,MI5,Special Branch etc.
Joe Public might vote for it. Would he want to pay for it as well?
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Mock.??
In a society of what, 60 or 70 million people there will always be some who veer to the extremes of political views.. sometimes more than others..
Doesn’t make them right though..
What was extreme in the policies I suggested? I would have said common sense poilicies that Joe Soap would vote for. The problem is that everytime anyone starts to get anywhere with the like they are trashed by the MSM,MI5,Special Branch etc.
Joe Public might vote for it. Would he want to pay for it as well?
He might as well. He pays for everything and everyone in the world already for no benefit to ourselves.
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Mock.??
In a society of what, 60 or 70 million people there will always be some who veer to the extremes of political views.. sometimes more than others..
Doesn’t make them right though..
Profile of the Sociopath
Glibness and Superficial Charm.
Manipulative and Conning. They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors as permissible. ...
Grandiose Sense of Self. ...
Pathological Lying. ...
Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt. ...
Shallow Emotions. ...
Incapacity for Love.
Need for Stimulation.
So what are you saying here?