Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Off Topic => Topic started by: BillyStubbsTears on October 14, 2019, 10:12:38 pm
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The Far Right has been on the march across Europe this decade but is the tide turning?
Salvini's mob were turfed out of Govt in Italy a few weeks back and now Orban might be in retreat in Hungary.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-50039847
Great news if it continues.
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Brilliant news.
But , make no mistake , the same exercise needs doing here .
Proud of the South and West Yorkshire brigade marching in London today
Keep the Faith
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If that mob all stopped smoking Spliffs it would make a significant contribution to reducing our Carbon foot print
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Further proof.
''Swiss election: Green parties 'make historic gains'''
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-50116400
We just need Britain to veer away from the extreme right tories
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With dare I repeat myself PR - its just fairer surely ?
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It might be fairer but not necessarily in your favour. Under PR rules, the 2015 election would have resulted in UKIP gaining 83 seats instead of 1.
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I agree BB - it would give those Parties a fairer share of the power - and I would not object if that meant as it would UKIP getting 83 Seats
I try to be really objective (even with Referees) and I didnt see it as not necessarily "in my favour"
I say lets get it on so that even if UKIP get 83 we still dont get extremism either way and I hope it would empwer more people to Vote rather than be sat in a Constituency (wherever it may be) thinking a vote for UKIP or the Greens would be "wasted" as it would "make no difference"
I am not clued up on the exact types of PR there are but some eminence will fill me in - and also what PR would have produced overall when UKIP would have got 83. Have you got a full list of what the full Parliament would have looked like ?
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I have found this PR Link that explains to me how each "type" of PR works and how had each different type been applied what we would have ended up with in each case
I will have to read the thing now I suppose as I keep advocating PR so ought to know which type is "best"
https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/how-would-parliament-look-under-proportional-representation
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The next General Election in the UK, which may come as soon as early December, will probably be a bit of an outlier as it will almost certainly be a Brexit GE, maybe a kind of proxy for a second referendum.
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I have found this PR Link that explains to me how each "type" of PR works and how had each different type been applied what we would have ended up with in each case
I will have to read the thing now I suppose as I keep advocating PR so ought to know which type is "best"
https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/how-would-parliament-look-under-proportional-representation
I think we need to keep the constituency basis, so prefer AV or second choice STV.
Definitely nothing that uses party lists - as Tony Benn always said, the true test of a democracy is that you can get rid of someone you don't like. Under a party list system, someone else decides who your MPs are and the electorate can't do anything about getting rid of anyone they don't want 'representing' them.
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time to lower the voting age as well
at least to 17 ?
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time to lower the voting age as well
at least to 17 ?
No, they're not mature enough to make judgements. They've never lived in this country when it was not in the EU, and was infinitely better than it is now. That's why they're pro-remain; they don't know any better.
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So how does one more year of age make any difference.?
The Scots has voting for independence at 16+
Young adults have just as much of a right to a say as anyone else.!
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time to lower the voting age as well
at least to 17 ?
No, they're not mature enough to make judgements. They've never lived in this country when it was not in the EU, and was infinitely better than it is now. That's why they're pro-remain; they don't know any better.
Seems that a proportion of the 17.4 million weren't mature enough to make judgements based on their continued belief in the lies they were fed - based on comments on TV, the Media, Facebook, Twitter etc - that have subsequently been proved to be false!
And when exactly was this country infinitely better than is was before the referendum?
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time to lower the voting age as well
at least to 17 ?
No, they're not mature enough to make judgements. They've never lived in this country when it was not in the EU, and was infinitely better than it is now. That's why they're pro-remain; they don't know any better.
Wow. You think we'd go back to how it was 50 year ago by leaving?
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time to lower the voting age as well
at least to 17 ?
No, they're not mature enough to make judgements. They've never lived in this country when it was not in the EU, and was infinitely better than it is now. That's why they're pro-remain; they don't know any better.
If they are old enough to be in the armed services then I think they are old enough to vote Steve.
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time to lower the voting age as well
at least to 17 ?
No, they're not mature enough to make judgements. They've never lived in this country when it was not in the EU, and was infinitely better than it is now. That's why they're pro-remain; they don't know any better.
Were you alive in 1936?
I assume you know concentration camps are wrong.
Jesus f**king wept...
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time to lower the voting age as well
at least to 17 ?
No, they're not mature enough to make judgements. They've never lived in this country when it was not in the EU, and was infinitely better than it is now. That's why they're pro-remain; they don't know any better.
If you're mature enough to pay Income Tax, you're mature enough to decide who takes it from you.
'No taxation without representation'.
PS If you have to be mature enough to remember what it was like before we entered Europe in order to have a valid opinion, that would mean anyone born after 1955 wouldn't be allowed to vote. Nice.
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time to lower the voting age as well
at least to 17 ?
No, they're not mature enough to make judgements. They've never lived in this country when it was not in the EU, and was infinitely better than it is now. That's why they're pro-remain; they don't know any better.
Were you alive in 1936?
I assume you know concentration camps are wrong.
Jesus f**king wept...
What the f*ck are you on about? Of course I know concentration camps are wrong; but what on Earth has that to do with the 1960s?
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time to lower the voting age as well
at least to 17 ?
No, they're not mature enough to make judgements. They've never lived in this country when it was not in the EU, and was infinitely better than it is now. That's why they're pro-remain; they don't know any better.
Seems that a proportion of the 17.4 million weren't mature enough to make judgements based on their continued belief in the lies they were fed - based on comments on TV, the Media, Facebook, Twitter etc - that have subsequently been proved to be false!
And when exactly was this country infinitely better than is was before the referendum?
As I've said on here many times, the 1960s. Zero unemployment, working class pleasures such as beer, fish and chips, and football ridiculously cheap; and a Labour Government that represented the North, not just London and the South.
What was there not to like about all that?
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time to lower the voting age as well
at least to 17 ?
No, they're not mature enough to make judgements. They've never lived in this country when it was not in the EU, and was infinitely better than it is now. That's why they're pro-remain; they don't know any better.
Were you alive in 1936?
I assume you know concentration camps are wrong.
Jesus f**king wept...
The term concentration camp was stolen by the Nazi's from the Brits method of protecting citizens during Boer wars. It was simply to concentrate a group of people. The Nazi's stole this term but the right terminology should of been extermination camps.
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SS
It means you don't have to have lived through something to be able to form a sensible opinion on it.
And vice versa.
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SS
It means you don't have to have lived through something to be able to form a sensible opinion on it.
And vice versa.
OK.
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This country is a far better place, for joining the EU.
Dont believe any sh1te about it being better before.
The MAJORITY want to remain ,
so good job we are staying in.
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A lot of people think that is was better before they joined the eu thou hence voting to leave and a high percentage of the ones voting to leave are the ones old enough to know if it was better or not
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Which bits were better?
The power cuts?
The back to back pit house slums?
The chronic underperformance of our economy?
Nostalgia eh? It's not as good as it used to be.
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I don’t no mate you would have to ask them I’m not old enough
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I think you're listening to the wrong people bp, as it appears you are one of the ones that is going to be dudded by brexit.
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A lot of people think that is was better before they joined the eu thou hence voting to leave and a high percentage of the ones voting to leave are the ones old enough to know if it was better or not
I am, and it wasn't.
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This country is a far better place, for joining the EU.
Dont believe any sh1te about it being better before.
The MAJORITY want to remain ,
so good job we are staying in.
Well looking back at the "trial" Membership we had in 1973 which went on for 2 years seems to back that up
We had a Referendum of course at the end of it and there would have been the same (or similar) demograhic spread as the last Referendum
So lots of older people were voting who were (then) in a better place to judge the past having lived through it than me a mere 20 odd year old - and that produced a 66% REMAIN v 33 LEAVE result.
So that backs up your statement perhaps that before we voted join (or remain) 2/3rds of those voting thought we would be better off how we had been "living" for those 2 years than we had in many previous years / times
Clumsy way of saying it but hey I know what I mean
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Which bits were better?
The power cuts?
The back to back pit house slums?
The chronic underperformance of our economy?
Nostalgia eh? It's not as good as it used to be.
Well looking back at the "trial" Membership we had in 1973 which went on for 2 years seems to back that up
We had a Referendum of course at the end of it and there would have been the same (or similar) demograhic spread as the last Referendum
So lots of older people were voting who were (then) in a better place to judge the past having lived through it than me a mere 20 odd year old - and that produced a 66% REMAIN v 33 LEAVE result.
So that backs up your statement perhaps that before we voted join (or remain) 2/3rds of those voting thought we would be better off how we had been "living" for those 2 years than we had in many previous years / times
Clumsy way of saying it but hey I know what I mean
Dead right, chaps.
Outside toilets?
Smog?
Frost on the inside of your bedroom window in the morning?
Someone now saying times were better before we joined only goes to show how time can dull the memory.
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All of you on here spouting utter b*llocks about the 1960s either didn't live through those times, or you seriously need certifying.
Outside toilets and no central heating? Are you being f*cking serious?
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Perhaps, being a posh Scawsby git you didn't have it but born and raised in a pit house in Bolton on Dearne there definitely was no central heating. There were still places with outside toilets too.
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Perhaps, being a posh Scawsby git you didn't have it but born and raised in a pit house in Bolton on Dearne there definitely was no central heating. There were still places with outside toilets too.
I was born and bred in Bentley mate, and worked at Bentley Pit. Yes, there were outside toilets in the 1950s, but I'm talking about the 1960s, a decade full of consumerism.
Or maybe you find today's society better, with people sleeping in doorways, drugs all over the place, now decriminalised, and people being shot and stabbed all over the country.
I know which era I prefer.
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Steve, I agree that homelessness, drugs and knife crime are a terrible blight on our country but this discussion is in the context of our membership of the EU. You cannot seriously be trying to relate any of those ills with that.
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All of you on here spouting utter b*llocks about the 1960s either didn't live through those times, or you seriously need certifying.
Outside toilets and no central heating? Are you being f*cking serious?
Yes I'm being serious.
My grandparents had an outside shitter, a tin bath, and no running hot water until their pit house slum was knocked down in 1975. I spent a couple of nights a week there and every evening after school.
My parents who were considerably better off, couldn't afford central heating in more than 2 bedrooms until 1981.
I'm not sure which world you are remembering SS, but it ain't the one I grew up in.
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Perhaps, being a posh Scawsby git you didn't have it but born and raised in a pit house in Bolton on Dearne there definitely was no central heating. There were still places with outside toilets too.
I was born and bred in Bentley mate, and worked at Bentley Pit. Yes, there were outside toilets in the 1950s, but I'm talking about the 1960s, a decade full of consumerism.
Or maybe you find today's society better, with people sleeping in doorways, drugs all over the place, now decriminalised, and people being shot and stabbed all over the country.
I know which era I prefer.
I was born in 1963, we had an outside bog and no central heating until 1976, the big woollen blankets we had pinned you to the bed
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All of you on here spouting utter b*llocks about the 1960s either didn't live through those times, or you seriously need certifying.
Outside toilets and no central heating? Are you being f*cking serious?
Yes I'm being serious.
My grandparents had an outside shitter, a tin bath, and no running hot water until their pit house slum was knocked down in 1975. I spent a couple of nights a week there and every evening after school.
My parents who were considerably better off, couldn't afford central heating in more than 2 bedrooms until 1981.
I'm not sure which world you are remembering SS, but it ain't the one I grew up in.
BST, I may be wrong here, but I'm guessing that you're round about 50 years old. If so, you were born right at the end of the 1960s, which hardly puts you in the same position as me, when making an experience based synopsis.
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If you have to have personally experienced something to have a valid opinion about it, why do Leavers keep going on about the War?
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SS.
As I've said and as Glyn says, you don't have to live through something to have an informed opinion.
But, since you keep pushing that line, I experienced, pre-EU getting bathed in a tin bath in fron of the fire filled with kettles in a 2 up 2 down hovel with rats in the back yard.
That's my version of the glamorous past you seem to recall.
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I was installing and maintaining central heating systems in the mid sixties and there weren't many low to average wage earners putting it in.
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It was towards the end of the 60s before we had central heating or an internal toilet.
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In my job at council I was still ripping 'coppers' out of kitchens in early 90s and in 20 years ago our central heating programme was for houses with 0 rads then 1, 2 etc took years to 4. Housing is unrecognisable in those 30 years
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None of the hundreds of homes demolished to build this estate would have had central heating or inside toilets.
https://www.towerblock.eca.ed.ac.uk/development/balby-bridge-redevelopment-phase-i
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And after all that, how ironic is this?
https://ec.europa.eu/easme/en/news/thinking-doing-some-home-energy-renovation-new-eu-funding-available
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I didn't know anybody with central heating in the sixties, and for years after that!
If you were in a pit house, then coal was the normal choice. Fireplace in the living room, and no heat upstairs except the hot water bottle at bedtime.
Frost on the inside of the window was normal...in 63 it was icicles.
Tell it to kids today and they think youre mental.
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Most retired folk were on free coal, we used to have a devil of a job getting widows to have gas conversion even though they got a gas allowance instead as they saw it as something husbands had worked for. That and they didn't feel comfy unless bunker was full, better than money in bank.
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families like ours where there were no pit workers we bought it directly from the pit delivery drivers I think at 5 quid a ton, but remember well the weeks when the ''coal house'' was empty where we burnt spud peelings wrapped tightly in newspaper and almost anything that burnt slow to warm the house and heat the water. I said earlier that the 60s were good years and some of them were but there was quite a few years of doing it tough.
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Perhaps, being a posh Scawsby git you didn't have it but born and raised in a pit house in Bolton on Dearne there definitely was no central heating. There were still places with outside toilets too.
I was born and bred in Bentley mate, and worked at Bentley Pit. Yes, there were outside toilets in the 1950s, but I'm talking about the 1960s, a decade full of consumerism.
Or maybe you find today's society better, with people sleeping in doorways, drugs all over the place, now decriminalised, and people being shot and stabbed all over the country.
I know which era I prefer.
I think everyone can agree these are problems with the country but the difference between Remainers is we blame the Tories for austerity, cuts to public services, NHS, etc and Leavers for some reason blame the EU. Walking round Doncaster and looking at homelessness over the years it's only become a massive issue over the last 10 years for me, before that it was a managable issue.
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In 1968, I was working at Bentley Pit, and still living at home with my parents. We had central heating, double glazed windows, and colour TV. The old man liked a drink as well, and we were just typical of all the families around us.
I'm talking about Bentley West End, so something isn't adding up with the facts some of you have presented, unless you've got your eras mixed up.
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You could afford a telly that would have cost around £5000 in today's money?
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SS, I'm guessing your dad had had a win on the pools, premium bonds or the horses.
By definition, if you could afford a colour TV at that time, then you wouldn't have lived in Bentley.
To paraphrase Richard Pryor, Bentley was so poor that even the rainbow was in black and white!
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In 1968, I was working at Bentley Pit, and still living at home with my parents. We had central heating, double glazed windows, and colour TV. The old man liked a drink as well, and we were just typical of all the families around us.
I'm talking about Bentley West End, so something isn't adding up with the facts some of you have presented, unless you've got your eras mixed up.
1968 was right at the beginning of colour TV and only the very well off could afford one. I was 13 yrs old and getting the bus from town I'd go on the top deck colour TV spotting, such a novelty were they then. The full length of Spotborough road there were about six houses with colour TVs. Bentley West End? pfft.
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What's wrong with Bentley West End like?
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What's wrong with Bentley West End like?
You mean you don't know?
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I'd like you to tell me. Where are you from?
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I'd like you to tell me. Where are you from?
Ignore them BB. They talk so much sh*te they're beyond belief. These are the people who take the p*ss out of the Dingles for being outdated, then talk about tin baths being the norm in the 1960s, an era touted by all historians as the most revolutionary decade in history.
It' so ludicrous it's laughable.
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I've got it SS. You're a Russian bot aren't you?
You've obviously got not the first idea what Denaby was like in the 60s and 70s, then when folk put you right, you accuse them of making it up.
Need to up your game tovarich.
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I'd like you to tell me. Where are you from?
Ignore them BB. They talk so much sh*te they're beyond belief. These are the people who take the p*ss out of the Dingles for being outdated, then talk about tin baths being the norm in the 1960s, an era touted by all historians as the most revolutionary decade in history.
It' so ludicrous it's laughable.
Arise Sir Steve of Scawsby, ( of the only rich family in the village) :)
If you please kind sir, would you care to cast your eyes upon the graph contained within the link and pray learn it's contents, but before doing so please estimate, to oneself naturally what percentage of homes had such fine installations of heating of the central kind in the year of our lord 1970.
Percentage of households with central heating systems in the United Kingdom (UK) from 1970 to 2018
https://www.statista.com/statistics/289137/central-heating-in-households-in-the-uk/
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I've got it SS. You're a Russian bot aren't you?
You've obviously got not the first idea what Denaby was like in the 60s and 70s, then when folk put you right, you accuse them of making it up.
Need to up your game tovarich.
So Denaby was typical of the rest of the country in the 1960s?
You're brilliant at politics and economics BST, but sadly lacking at social history. Don't worry mate, nobody can be good at everything. Not even me.
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But if you're a DRFC supporter you're good enough Steve, as you said before enjoy the football.
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But if you're a DRFC supporter you're good enough Steve, as you said before enjoy the football.
I can't Sydney, they've postponed the b*stard game.
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Lots of areas of social and indeed older private housing was really basic in many areas till 80s and onward. I've worked all Doncaster since 89and most places had housing with what was basically an outside toilet off the kitchen or a kitchen so small the cooker was in an offshot adjacent. I hadn't grown up like that so didn't know it existed, but doesn't mean it wasn't there
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I'd like you to tell me. Where are you from?
Woodlands mara. With family in Bentley.
Played for Don Valley Old Boys, our club house was the Railway Tavern in Bentley which wasn't too bad; the best thing about Bentley in the 60's was Jazz Night at the Drum. Nothing else in Bentley to write home about back then; same with Woodlands.
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What's wrong with Bentley West End like?
Nowt wrong with it BB, lived there myself for about seven years back in the 70s, Washington Grove. The pfft comment was aimed at Steve saying they had central heating, double glazing and colour TV there in the 60s.
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I'd like you to tell me. Where are you from?
Woodlands mara. With family in Bentley.
Played for Don Valley Old Boys, our club house was the Railway Tavern in Bentley which wasn't too bad; the best thing about Bentley in the 60's was Jazz Night at the Drum. Nothing else in Bentley to write home about back then; same with Woodlands.
Yes, but that's not telling me what's wrong with Bentley West End. When you said "You mean you don't know?", I admit I don't know, so I want you to tell me.
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What's wrong with Bentley West End like?
Nowt wrong with it BB, lived there myself for about seven years back in the 70s, Washington Grove. The pfft comment was aimed at Steve saying they had central heating, double glazing and colour TV there in the 60s.
You've just contradicted yourself mate. You've said you lived there in the 70s, and yet you're trying to dictate about what happened in the 60s.
As regards the price of colour TVs, it wasn't applicable then, as most people rented their TVs.
Another point is that the old man never drove a car; he cycled everywhere, which is why he was able to spend more money in the house.
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No contradiction at all. We were talking about the sixties and that's what my comments were based on. Washington Grove BTW did have air raid shelters in back gardens in the 70s.
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SS, I cannot find data to say whether a majority bought or rented their tvs in the 6os but I did find a couple of interesting pieces.
''Colour TV sets did not outnumber black-and-white sets until 1976, mainly due to the high price of the early colour sets. Colour receivers were almost as expensive in real terms as the early black and white sets had been; the monthly rental for a large-screen receiver was £8. In March, 1969, there were only 100,000 colour TV sets in use; by the end of 1969 this had doubled to 200,000; and by 1972 there were 1.6 million''
https://blog.scienceandmediamuseum.org.uk/colour-television-britain/
We didn't get a fridge (second hand) till the mid 60s and our first aid to 'doing the washing' was a spin dryer which looked similar to a paraffin heater (remember those, that was our first central heating system standing on the landing at night stinking the house out) and was again second hand stand alone unit.
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I did find this letter amongst others on the following page:
''A very clear memory is the winter of 1962/63. I was still at junior school and forced to wear short trousers to school. I can still remember my sore legs. We were sent home from school on a regular basis. The snow was there from the end of December until March. It was frozen and made great slides that never thawed. It was great fun. We had no central heating at home, just one coal fire in the lounge. The bedrooms were freezing and I remember being pulled out of my warm bed to go to school.''
Charles Day, Doncaster
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/6707451.stm
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For what it’s worth I remember our house (a relatively modern maybe 60s new estate bungalow) being fitted with central heating in the early 69s - hasn’t had it when built.
We also didn’t have a colour TV, until the mid 69s and then that was rented until into the 80s.
I remember going next door to watch princess Anne’s wedding in 1973, because they had a colour tv.
Both my parents were working full time and we had a 5 year old second hand car and took one uk holiday in the summer.
Looking back, it feels like we were well off.!
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I got my first guitar in the summer of 69. Played it till my fingers bled.
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must resist joke about an early 69, must resist joke about early 69s ....
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For what it’s worth I remember our house (a relatively modern maybe 60s new estate bungalow) being fitted with central heating in the early 69s - hasn’t had it when built.
We also didn’t have a colour TV, until the mid 69s and then that was rented until into the 80s.
I remember going next door to watch princess Anne’s wedding in 1973, because they had a colour tv.
Both my parents were working full time and we had a 5 year old second hand car and took one uk holiday in the summer.
Looking back, it feels like we were well off.!
Fitties at Cleethorpes was our annual holiday, then my Dad had a bad accident at work in 1973, got enough compo to pay his house off, buy a brand new car and touring Caravan and pay for our first holiday abroad taking the Caravan to Spain in 1976, happy days 😂😂😂
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For what it’s worth I remember our house (a relatively modern maybe 60s new estate bungalow) being fitted with central heating in the early 69s - hasn’t had it when built.
We also didn’t have a colour TV, until the mid 69s and then that was rented until into the 80s.
I remember going next door to watch princess Anne’s wedding in 1973, because they had a colour tv.
Both my parents were working full time and we had a 5 year old second hand car and took one uk holiday in the summer.
Looking back, it feels like we were well off.!
In terms of a time scale, that's the nearest post to mine IDM.
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Fitties - 279 Ozone !
Got sunstroke there in June 61 or 62. Three of us well overdid it. Last time I looked it was still there - Ozone that is not the Sunstroke (although that could explain a lot)
Used to hire a caravan from a Stainy woman Mr Campbell before staying in Ozone - and they still had Gas Mantles for the lights !
Saw my first Telly in about 59 (Aunties house) and same Auntie got first colour Telly I had ever seen as well
Seem to think the Man City Leicester (1-0 Neil Young) was first colour Final I saw. I thought it was first but Wiki says Everton WBA the previous year
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Fitties - 279 Ozone !
Got sunstroke there in June 61 or 62. Three of us well overdid it. Last time I looked it was still there - Ozone that is not the Sunstroke (although that could explain a lot)
Used to hire a caravan from a Stainy woman Mr Campbell before staying in Ozone - and they still had Gas Mantles for the lights !
Saw my first Telly in about 59 (Aunties house) and same Auntie got first colour Telly I had ever seen as well
Seem to think the Man City Leicester (1-0 Neil Young) was first colour Final I saw. I thought it was first but Wiki says Everton WBA the previous year
Dead right Wolfie. Everton v WBA 1968; Man City v Leicester 1969. Jeff Astle scored the winner for WBA.
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Little steps in regards to world order but still a good outcome, astonishing really.
''Blow to Amazon as Seattle socialist looks to have triumphed in key vote
Kshama Sawant seems to have beaten Amazon-backed Egan Orion in council race despite vast financial effort from tech giant's
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/nov/09/seattle-amazon-kshama-sawant-socialist-elections