Tide turning?

[BillyStubbsTears]

The Far Right has been on the march across Europe this decade but is the tide turning?

Salvini's mob were turfed out of Govt in Italy a few weeks back and now Orban might be in retreat in Hungary.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-50039847

Great news if it continues.

[foxbat]

Brilliant news.

But , make no mistake , the same exercise needs doing here .

Proud of the South and West Yorkshire brigade marching in London today

Keep the Faith

[Sprotyrover]

If that mob all stopped smoking Spliffs it would make a significant contribution to reducing our Carbon foot print

[SydneyRover]

Further proof.

''Swiss election: Green parties 'make historic gains'''

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-50116400

We just need Britain to veer away from the extreme right tories

[Donnywolf]

With dare I repeat myself PR - its just fairer surely ?

[Bentley Bullet]

It might be fairer but not necessarily in your favour. Under PR rules, the 2015 election would have resulted in UKIP gaining 83 seats instead of 1.

[Donnywolf]

I agree BB - it would give those Parties a fairer share of the power - and I would not object if that meant as it would UKIP getting 83 Seats

I try to be really objective (even with Referees) and I didnt see it as not necessarily "in my favour"

I say lets get it on so that even if UKIP get 83 we still dont get extremism either way and I hope it would empwer more people to Vote rather than be sat in a Constituency (wherever it may be) thinking a vote for UKIP or the Greens would be "wasted" as it would "make no difference"

I am not clued up on the exact types of PR there are but some eminence will fill me in - and also what PR would have produced overall when UKIP would have got 83. Have you got a full list of what the full Parliament would have looked like ?

[Donnywolf]

I have found this PR Link that explains to me how each "type" of PR works and how had each different type been applied what we would have ended up with in each case

I will have to read the thing now I suppose as I keep advocating PR so ought to know which type is "best"

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/how-would-parliament-look-under-proportional-representation

[The Red Baron]

The next General Election in the UK, which may come as soon as early December, will probably be a bit of an outlier as it will almost certainly be a Brexit GE, maybe a kind of proxy for a second referendum.

[Glyn_Wigley]

I have found this PR Link that explains to me how each "type" of PR works and how had each different type been applied what we would have ended up with in each case

I will have to read the thing now I suppose as I keep advocating PR so ought to know which type is "best"

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/how-would-parliament-look-under-proportional-representation

I think we need to keep the constituency basis, so prefer AV or second choice STV.

Definitely nothing that uses party lists - as Tony Benn always said, the true test of a democracy is that you can get rid of someone you don't like. Under a party list system, someone else decides who your MPs are and the electorate can't do anything about getting rid of anyone they don't want 'representing' them.

[foxbat]

time to lower the voting age as well
at least to 17 ?

[scawsby steve]

time to lower the voting age as well
at least to 17 ?

No, they're not mature enough to make judgements. They've never lived in this country when it was not in the EU, and was infinitely better than it is now. That's why they're pro-remain; they don't know any better.

[IDM]

So how does one more year of age make any difference.?

The Scots has voting for independence at 16+

Young adults have just as much of a right to a say as anyone else.!

[Not Now Kato]

time to lower the voting age as well
at least to 17 ?

No, they're not mature enough to make judgements. They've never lived in this country when it was not in the EU, and was infinitely better than it is now. That's why they're pro-remain; they don't know any better.

Seems that a proportion of the 17.4 million weren't mature enough to make judgements based on their continued belief in the lies they were fed - based on comments on TV, the Media, Facebook, Twitter etc - that have subsequently been proved to be false!
 
And when exactly was this country infinitely better than is was before the referendum?

[DonnyOsmond]

time to lower the voting age as well
at least to 17 ?

No, they're not mature enough to make judgements. They've never lived in this country when it was not in the EU, and was infinitely better than it is now. That's why they're pro-remain; they don't know any better.

Wow. You think we'd go back to how it was 50 year ago by leaving?

[SydneyRover]

time to lower the voting age as well
at least to 17 ?

No, they're not mature enough to make judgements. They've never lived in this country when it was not in the EU, and was infinitely better than it is now. That's why they're pro-remain; they don't know any better.

If they are old enough to be in the armed services then I think they are old enough to vote Steve.

[BillyStubbsTears]

time to lower the voting age as well
at least to 17 ?

No, they're not mature enough to make judgements. They've never lived in this country when it was not in the EU, and was infinitely better than it is now. That's why they're pro-remain; they don't know any better.

Were you alive in 1936?

I assume you know concentration camps are wrong.

Jesus f**king wept...

[Glyn_Wigley]

time to lower the voting age as well
at least to 17 ?

No, they're not mature enough to make judgements. They've never lived in this country when it was not in the EU, and was infinitely better than it is now. That's why they're pro-remain; they don't know any better.

If you're mature enough to pay Income Tax, you're mature enough to decide who takes it from you.

'No taxation without representation'.

PS If you have to be mature enough to remember what it was like before we entered Europe in order to have a valid opinion, that would mean anyone born after 1955 wouldn't be allowed to vote. Nice.

[scawsby steve]

time to lower the voting age as well
at least to 17 ?

No, they're not mature enough to make judgements. They've never lived in this country when it was not in the EU, and was infinitely better than it is now. That's why they're pro-remain; they don't know any better.

Were you alive in 1936?

I assume you know concentration camps are wrong.

Jesus f**king wept...

What the f*ck are you on about? Of course I know concentration camps are wrong; but what on Earth has that to do with the 1960s?

[scawsby steve]

time to lower the voting age as well
at least to 17 ?

No, they're not mature enough to make judgements. They've never lived in this country when it was not in the EU, and was infinitely better than it is now. That's why they're pro-remain; they don't know any better.

Seems that a proportion of the 17.4 million weren't mature enough to make judgements based on their continued belief in the lies they were fed - based on comments on TV, the Media, Facebook, Twitter etc - that have subsequently been proved to be false!
 
And when exactly was this country infinitely better than is was before the referendum?

As I've said on here many times, the 1960s. Zero unemployment, working class pleasures such as beer, fish and chips, and football ridiculously cheap; and a Labour Government that represented the North, not just London and the South.

What was there not to like about all that?

[johnny rovers]

time to lower the voting age as well
at least to 17 ?

No, they're not mature enough to make judgements. They've never lived in this country when it was not in the EU, and was infinitely better than it is now. That's why they're pro-remain; they don't know any better.

Were you alive in 1936?

I assume you know concentration camps are wrong.

Jesus f**king wept...

The term concentration camp was stolen by the Nazi's from the Brits method of protecting citizens during Boer wars. It was simply to concentrate a group of people. The Nazi's stole this term but the right terminology should of been extermination camps.

[BillyStubbsTears]

SS

It means you don't have to have lived through something to be able to form a sensible opinion on it.

And vice versa.

[scawsby steve]

SS

It means you don't have to have lived through something to be able to form a sensible opinion on it.

And vice versa.

OK.

[foxbat]

This country is a far better place,  for joining the EU.
Dont believe any sh1te about it being better before.
The MAJORITY want to remain ,
so good job we are staying in.

[bpoolrover]

A lot of people think that is was better before they joined the eu thou hence voting to leave and a high percentage of the ones voting to leave are the ones old enough to know if it was better or not

[BillyStubbsTears]

Which bits were better?

The power cuts?
The back to back pit house slums?
The chronic underperformance of our economy?

Nostalgia eh? It's not as good as it used to be.

[bpoolrover]

I don’t no mate you would have to ask them I’m not old enough

[SydneyRover]

I think you're listening to the wrong people bp, as it appears you are one of the ones that is going to be dudded by brexit.

[Not Now Kato]

A lot of people think that is was better before they joined the eu thou hence voting to leave and a high percentage of the ones voting to leave are the ones old enough to know if it was better or not

I am, and it wasn't.
 

[Donnywolf]

This country is a far better place,  for joining the EU.
Dont believe any sh1te about it being better before.
The MAJORITY want to remain ,
so good job we are staying in.

Well looking back at the "trial" Membership we had in 1973 which went on for 2 years seems to back that up

We had a Referendum of course at the end of it and there would have been the same (or similar) demograhic spread as the last Referendum

So lots of older people were voting who were (then) in a better place to judge the past having lived through it than me a mere 20 odd year old - and that produced a 66% REMAIN v 33 LEAVE result.

So that backs up your statement perhaps that before we voted join (or remain) 2/3rds of those voting thought we would be better off how we had been "living" for those 2 years than we had in many previous years / times

Clumsy way of saying it but hey I know what I mean