Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Off Topic => Topic started by: wing commander on November 15, 2019, 10:44:15 am
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For another labour giveaway.Corbyn is giving his magic money tree another shake and low and behold another £20 billion comes floating to the ground and we are all going to get free broadband...Seriously how desperate do you have to get for votes.
This of course will be funded by Facebook and Amazon and tech companies.Yes I agree they do need to pay more tax but do people really think they will happily fund all of that without making the public pay by additional costs for it or moving elsewhere..Tech company's wont be doing any developing in the uk that's for sure..A madness plan along with the 4 day working week..
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This is just zuckerburg imagine what fb is worth, Google and all the rest
Zuckerberg took the company public in May 2012 with majority shares. His net worth is estimated to be $71.7 billion as of October 24, 2019, increasing over the past year with Facebook stock as a whole.
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Soon as I heard it was to be funded by tech companies I thought that's all them leaving the UK can't tax them if there not here.
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I liken the whole Election process to Mr Foggitts weather forecast - you are old enough to remember him I know
He used to predict the weather for a year in front and day by day. I am sure it was never that accurate but nobody seemed interested in reviewing it at the end of a year
Instead they let him loose with his following years predictions
Politicians of all colours and all levels of PM Cabinet MP etc (and I exclude almost nobody) will indeed have as you have given an example of above will be pouring out all the stuff they are promising each it seems what the people want to hear
20bn for the NHS says Party A
26bn for the NHS says Party B
...and who knows 30 bn says Party A because we have had another look at this and can afford to go higher
.... and then more and more promises on Broadbannd Electric Cars the non exporting of live animals etc etc etc
We all know they will break them ultimately and someone should be there to make them accountable. Seriously are the Welsh Scottish and Irish Farmers and lots in England going to give up exporting live animals and who is going to tell them
Oh we have won the election - listened to the reasoned views of x,y and z and we are happy to allow the trde to continue - and that will happen to almost every single bit of every promise made by any of the Parties
I dont trust them , have lost faith in any of them. To me they are a busted flush
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Soon as I heard it was to be funded by tech companies I thought that's all them leaving the UK can't tax them if there not here.
Yep don't even try, just what fb Google and all the rest want to hear, if these tech companies paid there fair share of taxes the government could afford to pay for free internet for everyone, hey that's a good idea?
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If the tories had come up with this Sydney you would have called it a gimmick no? Would be better off saying they will knock 500 pounds off peoples heating bills rather than offer free broadband
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Apple. Market value: $1.16 trillion USD. ...
Samsung. Market value: 347.78 trillion KRW ($298.68 billion USD) ...
Microsoft. Market value: $1.10 trillion USD. ...
Alphabet. Market value: $878.48 billion USD. ...
Intel. Market value: $245.82 billion USD. ...
IBM. Market value: $120.03 billion USD. ...
fb .................. etc
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Under EU laws ( or regulations ) whichever suits, Labour cannot nationalise anything while UK is in EU membership. Nationalisation does away with open competition. So Labour must be LEAVING EU in order to nationalise.
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That is not quite true, they can do but only if it's under commercial terms.
The real issue is the true cost of this is likely to be far in excess of what they say.
A better option is probably to keep it private but invest in to it under proper terms with regulation. But that's not labour's way is it?
For investors big and small there is concern over these privatisation plans undoubtedly.
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Probably been scared off by the rail financial scandals there bfyp, that's the tory way, privatize and subsidise.
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Sydney I get there worth a lot but that’s not the point, my next door neighbour has more money than me should he give me half his money so we’re equal? If/when they reduce investment etc. In the U.K. and jobs go then what?
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Absolutely right and great news bp, can your neighbour pay for the broadband rollout :)
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I don't see your logic BFYP.
Broadband in the UK has been a spectacular market failure.
We have poor services because private companies haven't invested in infrastructure.
We have expensive services, with customers unfairly tied into having landlines that never get used.
We have poor geographical coverage, because companies don't see themselves getting commercial reward for the investment.
The market has failed utterly here.
And you're saying the solution is to give tax payers' money to the companies who have failed us?
Why should we do that, rather than have the state run the services itself?
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I don't see your logic BFYP.
Broadband in the UK has been a spectacular market failure.
We have poor services because private companies haven't invested in infrastructure.
We have expensive services, with customers unfairly tied into having landlines that never get used.
We have poor geographical coverage, because companies don't see themselves getting commercial reward for the investment.
The market has failed utterly here.
And you're saying the solution is to give tax payers' money to the companies who have failed us?
Why should we do that, rather than have the state run the services itself?
The reason it has failed is the private companies put profit before infrastructure, I only get 12mb on fibre because the cables from the cabinet are old aluminium cables, openreach refuse to replace them for copper
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Fibre to the premises is best
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Precisely Filo.
And here's the issue.
The broadband companies are right not to invest in that extra infrastructure. Because it won't make THEM any money. And their sole purpose (legally) is to make money for their shareholders.
So, because of that, the country as a whole suffers from a shit service.
It's a classic market failure. So we need a solution outside the auspices of the usual market. i.e. Govt takes over.
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Yes somewhat ironic that we have a private company with a monopoly. Perhaps the answer is allowing or forcing others to chip in, his creating more competition. Just a thought.....
I mean we are of course sure the government will run it better as obviously happened in the past.....
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Hearing all this is like being in bizarro world, labor here wanted to and started to build a total Fibre to the premises (when they were last in power)pretty expensive and got slammed by the coalition and the Murdoch press.
In power the coalition changed it all it a mix of Fibre to the curb, used old cable TV lines, satellite, bean tins and string, it's a total cock up and is costing way more and taking longer, we have to changed over next month to an inferior service costing 20% more, conservative, the economic managers.
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Fibre to the premises is best
I wish
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Broadband might be more useful to more people and businesses than HS2 however the costs for either or both suggests the money should be spent elsewhere on a variety of other essential things.
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That is not quite true, they can do but only if it's under commercial terms.
The real issue is the true cost of this is likely to be far in excess of what they say.
A better option is probably to keep it private but invest in to it under proper terms with regulation. But that's not labour's way is it?
For investors big and small there is concern over these privatisation plans undoubtedly.
Think I am right BFYP.
See this EU site.
https://ec.europa.eu/competition/consumers/government_aid_en.html
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This is laughable. It will never happen, even if Labour get into power.
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I mean we are of course sure the government will run it better as obviously happened in the past.....
*cough* East Coast Main Line, *cough*.
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I'm sure if Labour came up with a policy of buying everybody a curry once a week some people on here would find a way to kid people it was a good idea..lol
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Wing Co
Why not address the pros and cons ofwhat they are actually proposing,.
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Well one con straight away is that BT have said this morning that the cost of doing that would be more than double what Labour claim,so theres another 20 billion minimum that needs shaking off that magic tree....
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BST. They are proposing to take into public ownership by giving "Bonds" to shareholders, in exchange for shares, priced well below market value ( at a price decided by parliament) . The running costs to be set at 10% of the big boys turnover globally ( not profit and not even UK but Globally ) many have looked at taxing these multi nationals "Fairly" as Labour say, but if there is a way no one has ever found it.
Do you not think if Labour do tax them in the way the party says, the companies will stay in UK, when most if not all have "Branches" in Irish Republic.
NO they will up sticks and move elsewhere and increase unemployed register.
So there are more cons than pros by the look of it.
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BT
The company has disputed the cost of rolling out fibre broadband to every home and business, saying it would cost closer to £40bn than £20bn.
The BBC's business editor, Simon Jack, said Labour's proposal had caught BT "off-guard", as Mr McDonnell had said in July that he had no plans to nationalise the telecoms giant.
Following Labour's announcement, BT's share price initially fell by 3% before recovering slightly.
Julian David, chief executive of TechUK, which represents many UK tech firms, said: "These proposals would be a disaster for the telecoms sector and the customers that it serves.
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That is not quite true, they can do but only if it's under commercial terms.
The real issue is the true cost of this is likely to be far in excess of what they say.
A better option is probably to keep it private but invest in to it under proper terms with regulation. But that's not labour's way is it?
For investors big and small there is concern over these privatisation plans undoubtedly.
Think I am right BFYP.
See this EU site.
https://ec.europa.eu/competition/consumers/government_aid_en.html
Yes hence my point on commercial terms etc, it can't distort competition. It was one of the sticking points in my previous company (it did amuse many of us sat in the business laughing at politicians who had zero idea on how that would work). But it doesn't mean it cannot be done. I don't know if in this case it would be allowed, but I'd assume labour checked that.
On a side note, how much do we all pay for our broadband? It's not a deadly cost and would 5g replace it anyway (I have seen it mooted). It just seems a disproportionate cost versus alternatives.
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My BB is Fibre ( well supposedly ) I pay TT £22.00 per month, and is unlimited,which includes all calls made from landline, and obviously line rental.
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Well one con straight away is that BT have said this morning that the cost of doing that would be more than double what Labour claim,so theres another 20 billion minimum that needs shaking off that magic tree....he actually said the final figure would be close to 100 billion everything in
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Wing Co
Why not address the pros and cons ofwhat they are actually proposing,.do you think it’s a good idea really or just a election gimmick to try win votes? Most people already have broadband and quite willing to pay what they do I would think, I pay under 6 pound a week with calls and landline, for what people would gain is it worth up to 100 billion(according to bt guy)
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UK lags hopelessly behind on our broadband infrastructure. BBC, this morning cited Spain as currently having 50% Fibre infrastructure compared to UK at 7%.
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Well one con straight away is that BT have said this morning that the cost of doing that would be more than double what Labour claim,so theres another 20 billion minimum that needs shaking off that magic tree....
Of course it would at the prices they like to try and get away with.
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It is not surprising that the industry will challenge the cost estimates, as they have a vested interest in keeping the business as it is.
I don't know the final cost, and I suspect no-one else does at this stage, because the economies of scale and technical change will impact the roll out.
What is interesting is that no-one has taken into account the net economic gains from bringing the UK up to standard with other countries, such as Spain and Japan.
All those businesses suffering low quality service in a geographic lottery would be better placed to develop, and the regional inequalities between different parts of the UK would be reduced.
There is little prospect of these benefits being delivered under the current system....they have already failed!
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Communist b*****ds they will be nationalising the roads, hospitals and schools next. What do you mean this infrastructure and services are already run by the government - the commies are already here to the streets...
To what extent would you support or oppose a policy providing free broadband internet to all UK homes and businesses by 2030?"
62% ~ Support
22% ~ Oppose
16% ~ Don't know
Via @YouGov, 15 November
https://twitter.com/LeftieStats/status/1195385938572185602
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More sense and worth to everyone and businesses at a cost that's pennies compared to HS2!
Fabulous idea the type of infrastructure a forward thinking country should be doing
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Of course as it’s free,anyone will say yes to anything that’s free, if they said something will have to go up to pay for it you might just get a different result
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Labour won’t win the GE, but supposing they did........I could see this broadband proposal of Corbyns becoming free to low income people and people who are out of work etc.
Then it would be means tested to everyone else.
It doesn’t matter anyway as it won’t get the chance to be implemented.
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but you'll have a babble anyway :)
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but you'll have a babble anyway :)
Kettle......frying pan.......black.
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go and sit in the corner with bb :)
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go and sit in the corner with bb :)
Wooooo.
Hark at him.
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go and sit in the corner with bb :)
Why am I not in the corner?
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Communist Broadband
Communist NHS
is there any difference?
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Libraries - imagine if they get their hands on the libraries there will be free books and stuff without people paying for them putting all the bookshops and kindles out of business.
Madness, where will it end....
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go and sit in the corner with bb :)
Why am I not in the corner?
off you go then, second yellow :)
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go and sit in the corner with bb :)
I'm at the Scawthorpe club at the moment listening to REM if you want to join me.
That's me in the corner.
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go and sit in the corner with bb :)
I'm at the Scawthorpe club at the moment listening to REM if you want to join me.
That's me in the corner.
You'd best give the vicar a ring if you're losing your religion BB.😉
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Labour won’t win the GE, but supposing they did........I could see this broadband proposal of Corbyns becoming free to low income people and people who are out of work etc.
Then it would be means tested to everyone else.
It doesn’t matter anyway as it won’t get the chance to be implemented.
But that is
a) 100% not what they are saying.
b) 100% not what Corbyn believes.
b) is why they are planning to get rid of prescription charges (which are means tested).
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Bet some people make a pile by buying BT Shares "low" knowing (suspecting) that Labour wont hold a Majority or be able to form a Governemt and progress the idea anyway
The Shares went down by 3% earlier yesterday
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As far as the share price goes, BT have been underperforming;
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EJZzF7dXYAUrO7z.jpg:large
So not just only managing 8% full fibre across the UK, but stocks declining yearly.
A real privatisation success story?
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I worked in the broadband industry for many years. The company I started out with was called Video Networks and they ran a broadband on demand TV service in the Hull area in the early 1990s.
Broadband was another British innovation. The beauty of what VNL was doing was it didn't require fibre optic, copper was good enough. What needed upgrading were the exchanges, that's why they were in Hull because Hull uniquely has its own independent telecoms.
Beyond Hull though there were severe obstacles. BT. British Telecom had complete control of the network, they did not allow access and charged exorbitant sums that a start up business could not afford. The government failed to intervene and BT effectively squashed an industry that could have been a platform for a truly world leading British digital business. A crying shame.
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Labour won’t win the GE, but supposing they did........I could see this broadband proposal of Corbyns becoming free to low income people and people who are out of work etc.
Then it would be means tested to everyone else.
It doesn’t matter anyway as it won’t get the chance to be implemented.
But that is
a) 100% not what they are saying.
b) 100% not what Corbyn believes.
b) is why they are planning to get rid of prescription charges (which are means tested).
BST.
I know that is not what they are saying but it isn’t necessarily what would happen if by some fluke they won.
By the way, how could you know what Corbyn actually believes?
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Actually to think there was a fully functioning on demand TV service in Hull... Whilst Amazon was still bloody posting DVDs to customers...
It's unbelievable how far we've fallen behind.
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RD I was informed years ago BT apparently told the government of the time they had no duct space for other companies cables.Not long ago I spent 4 years surveying the network for old cable they wanted recovering and they have plenty of duct space.
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Labour won’t win the GE, but supposing they did........I could see this broadband proposal of Corbyns becoming free to low income people and people who are out of work etc.
Then it would be means tested to everyone else.
It doesn’t matter anyway as it won’t get the chance to be implemented.
But that is
a) 100% not what they are saying.
b) 100% not what Corbyn believes.
b) is why they are planning to get rid of prescription charges (which are means tested).
BST.
I know that is not what they are saying but it isn’t necessarily what would happen if by some fluke they won.
By the way, how could you know what Corbyn actually believes?
Because means testing is hated on the Left. For practical reasons (some poor people don't claim the benefits they are due) and for philosophical reasons (because it demeans those who are seen as having to be supported by the state).
I'm not inside Corbyn's head, obviously, but I've been involved with Left wing politics for 35 years (yeah Wilts! I know! Who'd have thought it?) and I'd be amazed if Corbyn was in favour of means testing.
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Labour won’t win the GE, but supposing they did........I could see this broadband proposal of Corbyns becoming free to low income people and people who are out of work etc.
Then it would be means tested to everyone else.
It doesn’t matter anyway as it won’t get the chance to be implemented.
But that is
a) 100% not what they are saying.
b) 100% not what Corbyn believes.
b) is why they are planning to get rid of prescription charges (which are means tested).
BST.
I know that is not what they are saying but it isn’t necessarily what would happen if by some fluke they won.
By the way, how could you know what Corbyn actually believes?
Because means testing is hated on the Left. For practical reasons (some poor people don't claim the benefits they are due) and for philosophical reasons (because it demeans those who are seen as having to be supported by the state).
I'm not inside Corbyn's head, obviously, but I've been involved with Left wing politics for 35 years (yeah Wilts! I know! Who'd have thought it?) and I'd be amazed if Corbyn was in favour of means testing.
So you don’t really know what he actually thinks about it then, just a summisation.
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Yes. Thank you for repeating what I just wrote.
Actually no. Repeating HALF of what I just wrote. It's an opinion based in many years of experience. I have never one heard anyone on the Left of the Labour party make a case FOR means testing. Therefore, I find it stretches the bounds of credibility to think that Corbyn would.
Tell me. Are you confident that the sun will come up tomorrow?
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You usually try to, and tell us, that you deal in facts but wrote that Corbyn 100% doesn’t believe in means testing ( on the free broadband).
I asked how could you know that and you have simply said that you would be amazed if he did think that.
You haven’t actually said that you don’t know for sure.
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Yes. Ok. I used a rhetorical device in saying 100%. It signifies that this is an issue upon which debate is very unlikely to be of much point.
What would you say if I said I was 100% sure the sun would come up tomorrow?
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Yes. Ok. I used a rhetorical device in saying 100%. It signifies that this is an issue upon which debate is very unlikely to be of much point.
What would you say if I said I was 100% sure the sun would come up tomorrow?
I would agree that it will, unless of course the World comes to an end tonight.
The Corbyn 100% thing is not a given.
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RD I was informed years ago BT apparently told the government of the time they had no duct space for other companies cables.Not long ago I spent 4 years surveying the network for old cable they wanted recovering and they have plenty of duct space.
They were well aware of what was going on with BT and petitioned against it for years. Eventually the business was bought by TalkTalk, who scrapped the service and went for an inferior alternative.
Such a missed opportunity.
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Wish we could get it - to make it worse we keep getting flyers sent through advertising it, like Bullseye this is what you could have had
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I'm sorry but the reality is this is a disaster of a Policy that would actually harm development in broadband..I was listening to a interview on sky news with a expert,not in tech or broadband but a legal expert.In his opinion BT would launch legal action against the plan and with the financial power they have he expects it to be 5 years before that would be resolved by the courts.In that time nobody would be investing in anything and why would you if your not getting a return on your investment..
So the end result is even bigger delays...That's not even mentioning the badly costed plan or the massive black hole that would appear in the pention pots...
It's a fag packet policy designed to grab a few headlines that they know will never become reality
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You only have to think back to how badly the nationalised businesses like the NCB and British Steel were run to know that it would be terrible.
So much wasted money.
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Aye Hound.
Because they did brilliantly when privatised didn't they? And even moreso, the process of privatisation of coal and steel did wonders for the South Yorkshire economy didn't it?
But don't stop there. What a raging success rail privatisation was. By the late 90s, the network had pretty much fallen apart through lack of investment by the private sector, and Network Rail was re-nationalised. And the Private Operating Companies? What a job they have done. Chronic lack of capacity and the highest fares in Europe. And twice now, it's been categorically shown that a Govt-run ECML works far better than the private sector managed.
Then there's the NHS. We get better health outcomes than the private sector-domiated American system, and it costs us about 40% as much per person. Not 40% LESS. 40% AS MUCH.
This line that nationalised systems are always rubbish and inefficient compared to the private sector is demonstrably nonsense. But it keeps coming back, time and again, despite the evidence.
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You only have to think back to how badly the nationalised businesses like the NCB and British Steel were run to know that it would be terrible.
So much wasted money.
Given that one of those industries no longer exists and the other barely exists they are hardly a rousing endorsement for privatisation are they?
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Simplistic question and not restricted to the broadband question. Why not means test. Why should those who can afford things not pay for them? Surely state aid should be for those who need. An example. I know someone whose personal wealth is in the mid 7 figure bracket, what was the point in him being eligible for child benefit for his 2 kids? Surely that's just wasting money? Same principle with any of these universal ideas
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You only have to think back to how badly the nationalised businesses like the NCB and British Steel were run to know that it would be terrible.
So much wasted money.
Given that one of those industries no longer exists and the other barely exists they are hardly a rousing endorsement for privatisation are they?
Wilts, read my post again as it clearly says “you only have to look back to see how badly the companies were run”.
Surely you can see that I was talking about them in the past tense but the point is valid.
There was a tremendous amount of wasted money.
Coming from a pit village I knew lads who boasted about skiving on their shifts and not getting pulled for it and was told of the wasted materials and machinery etc.
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Aye Hound.
Because they did brilliantly when privatised didn't they? And even moreso, the process of privatisation of coal and steel did wonders for the South Yorkshire economy didn't it?
But don't stop there. What a raging success rail privatisation was. By the late 90s, the network had pretty much fallen apart through lack of investment by the private sector, and Network Rail was re-nationalised. And the Private Operating Companies? What a job they have done. Chronic lack of capacity and the highest fares in Europe. And twice now, it's been categorically shown that a Govt-run ECML works far better than the private sector managed.
Then there's the NHS. We get better health outcomes than the private sector-domiated American system, and it costs us about 40% as much per person. Not 40% LESS. 40% AS MUCH.
This line that nationalised systems are always rubbish and inefficient compared to the private sector is demonstrably nonsense. But it keeps coming back, time and again, despite the evidence.
Aye, private losses rather than public ones. Certainly in the case of steel, next to no hope of making money out of it.
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There is an EXTREMELY illuminating article here. It's well worth your time to read.
https://www.techradar.com/uk/news/world-of-tech/how-the-uk-lost-the-broadband-race-in-1990-1224784
I remember Dr Cochrane - although I didn't know what he says here. An honest bloke. An engineer. I don't care if it's dogma from the left or dogma from the right. They are equally odious - as this story illustrates in Spades.
This is why we have shit broadband today.
BobG
I don't see your logic BFYP.
Broadband in the UK has been a spectacular market failure.
We have poor services because private companies haven't invested in infrastructure.
We have expensive services, with customers unfairly tied into having landlines that never get used.
We have poor geographical coverage, because companies don't see themselves getting commercial reward for the investment.
The market has failed utterly here.
And you're saying the solution is to give tax payers' money to the companies who have failed us?
Why should we do that, rather than have the state run the services itself?
T
The reason it has failed is the private companies put profit before infrastructure, I only get 12mb on fibre because the cables from the cabinet are old aluminium cables, openreach refuse to replace them for copper
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You only have to think back to how badly the nationalised businesses like the NCB and British Steel were run to know that it would be terrible.
So much wasted money.
Given that one of those industries no longer exists and the other barely exists they are hardly a rousing endorsement for privatisation are they?
Wilts, read my post again as it clearly says “you only have to look back to see how badly the companies were run”.
Surely you can see that I was talking about them in the past tense but the point is valid.
There was a tremendous amount of wasted money.
Coming from a pit village I knew lads who boasted about skiving on their shifts and not getting pulled for it and was told of the wasted materials and machinery etc.
No hound you need to prove your theory - were the pits and steelworks better run before and after nationalisation? Because they clearly weren't afterwards and I bet your pit village is evidence of that.
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Have you never seen the artisan types working for the wonderful services companies like Capita and CapGemini and that lot Hound?
Worse than dockers in my experience.
Cheers :)
BobG
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You only have to think back to how badly the nationalised businesses like the NCB and British Steel were run to know that it would be terrible.
So much wasted money.
Given that one of those industries no longer exists and the other barely exists they are hardly a rousing endorsement for privatisation are they?
Wilts, read my post again as it clearly says “you only have to look back to see how badly the companies were run”.
Surely you can see that I was talking about them in the past tense but the point is valid.
There was a tremendous amount of wasted money.
Coming from a pit village I knew lads who boasted about skiving on their shifts and not getting pulled for it and was told of the wasted materials and machinery etc.
No hound you need to prove your theory - were the pits and steelworks better run before and after nationalisation? Because they clearly weren't afterwards and I bet your pit village is evidence of that.
Wilts, I don’t need to prove anything.
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Simplistic question and not restricted to the broadband question. Why not means test. Why should those who can afford things not pay for them? Surely state aid should be for those who need. An example. I know someone whose personal wealth is in the mid 7 figure bracket, what was the point in him being eligible for child benefit for his 2 kids? Surely that's just wasting money? Same principle with any of these universal ideas
Totally agree with you Ldr, means testing is the fairest way to dole out any form of welfare, education is the answer for anyone living a life of penury not making a valid claim.
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Simplistic question and not restricted to the broadband question. Why not means test. Why should those who can afford things not pay for them? Surely state aid should be for those who need. An example. I know someone whose personal wealth is in the mid 7 figure bracket, what was the point in him being eligible for child benefit for his 2 kids? Surely that's just wasting money? Same principle with any of these universal ideas
Totally agree with you Ldr, means testing is the fairest way to dole out any form of welfare, education is the answer for anyone living a life of penury not making a valid claim.
So, if free broadband to everyone isn’t free to everyone (as I suggested it might not be a couple of days ago) then he will be stretching the truth if he then was to means test it.
Assuming he wins on December 12th of course.
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Simplistic question and not restricted to the broadband question. Why not means test. Why should those who can afford things not pay for them? Surely state aid should be for those who need. An example. I know someone whose personal wealth is in the mid 7 figure bracket, what was the point in him being eligible for child benefit for his 2 kids? Surely that's just wasting money? Same principle with any of these universal ideas
Totally agree with you Ldr, means testing is the fairest way to dole out any form of welfare, education is the answer for anyone living a life of penury not making a valid claim.
So, if free broadband to everyone isn’t free to everyone (as I suggested it might not be a couple of days ago) then he will be stretching the truth if he then was to means test it.
Assuming he wins on December 12th of course.
So just to clarify Hound, you are putting spin on a labour policy and then justifying your first spin with extra spin? :)
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Means testing isn't a perfect scenario by any means but why isn't Corbyn a fan of it just out of interest??? Surely it's better than some of the crazy plans we have in place now..
Take winter fuel allowance.My dad who is well off,lives in a 5 bed house and wont have to worry about money for the rest of his life gets it every year (when it's cold enough) when he doesn't need it.Yet a friend of mine whose a single mum,bringing up 2 young kids on her own without any help from the state or the useless father can hardly afford to keep the house warm..
Their has to be a better system than means testing but until someone thinks of it,its the best way.
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... ditto WCo
I get the £100 each Winter (as does Wife - if she got shut of me she would get £200) but it does not depend on the Temperature so that will be what your Dad gets
In addition there is a separate Cold Weather Payment which is Temp dependant and kicks in after so many days colder than a minimum threashold
Amazingly the Brits on the Costas get the WFA even though it could be argued they should not. They and other old s****s like me were encouraged to decline such payments but I dont know the uptake on the idea
I agree someone should think of a better idea and I dont know why Jeremy Corbyn is anti Means Testing - perhaps a legacy of the stigma attached. My Dad used to pour scorn on "Means testing" whenever it was mentioned and he had heard it
cheers dw
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There is an EXTREMELY illuminating article here. It's well worth your time to read.
https://www.techradar.com/uk/news/world-of-tech/how-the-uk-lost-the-broadband-race-in-1990-1224784
I remember Dr Cochrane - although I didn't know what he says here. An honest bloke. An engineer. I don't care if it's dogma from the left or dogma from the right. They are equally odious - as this story illustrates in Spades.
This is why we have shit broadband today.
BobG
I don't see your logic BFYP.
Broadband in the UK has been a spectacular market failure.
We have poor services because private companies haven't invested in infrastructure.
We have expensive services, with customers unfairly tied into having landlines that never get used.
We have poor geographical coverage, because companies don't see themselves getting commercial reward for the investment.
The market has failed utterly here.
And you're saying the solution is to give tax payers' money to the companies who have failed us?
Why should we do that, rather than have the state run the services itself?
T
The reason it has failed is the private companies put profit before infrastructure, I only get 12mb on fibre because the cables from the cabinet are old aluminium cables, openreach refuse to replace them for copper
How often do Brits invent or develop things that go on benefit foreign companies rather than our own?
It's criminal how government or bureaucracy has strangled ideas at birth to our detriment over the years.
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... ditto WCo
I get the £100 each Winter (as does Wife - if she got shut of me she would get £200) but it does not depend on the Temperature so that will be what your Dad gets
In addition there is a separate Cold Weather Payment which is Temp dependant and kicks in after so many days colder than a minimum threashold
Amazingly the Brits on the Costas get the WFA even though it could be argued they should not. They and other old s****s like me were encouraged to decline such payments but I dont know the uptake on the idea
I agree someone should think of a better idea and I dont know why Jeremy Corbyn is anti Means Testing - perhaps a legacy of the stigma attached. My Dad used to pour scorn on "Means testing" whenever it was mentioned and he had heard it
cheers dw
DW been a oldy mate you are obviously more clued up on these things than me lol.However the fact is that large amounts of money are given to people who don't actually need it while others struggle who do..
My father actually donates his,but that's not the point really the system is a farce..
Means testing comes in for a lot of critisism but if someone can come up with something better i'm all ears.Just giving everybody if for free is just not the answer as you cant do that for everything..
And surely nobody can argue that ex pat Brit pensioners sat on a balcony in the costa del sol enjoying a sangria on the British tax payer is a good use of public funds..
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Hope this is up to date
From September 2015, UK expats in Spain will no longer receive the £8.7 million (€11.1 million) paid out in winter fuel allowances. ... The decision to scrap the allowance will affect around 50,000 British pensioners living in Spain.Dec 30, 2014
Winter Fuel Payments for Pensioners Living Abroad
http://www.retirementexpert.co.uk/winter-fuel-payments-for-pensioners-living-abroad.html
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Well - you learn something every day
Did not know that payment had been stopped. It will not put me off going though !
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... ditto WCo
I get the £100 each Winter (as does Wife - if she got shut of me she would get £200) but it does not depend on the Temperature so that will be what your Dad gets
In addition there is a separate Cold Weather Payment which is Temp dependant and kicks in after so many days colder than a minimum threashold
Amazingly the Brits on the Costas get the WFA even though it could be argued they should not. They and other old s****s like me were encouraged to decline such payments but I dont know the uptake on the idea
I agree someone should think of a better idea and I dont know why Jeremy Corbyn is anti Means Testing - perhaps a legacy of the stigma attached. My Dad used to pour scorn on "Means testing" whenever it was mentioned and he had heard it
cheers dw
DW been a oldy mate you are obviously more clued up on these things than me lol.However the fact is that large amounts of money are given to people who don't actually need it while others struggle who do..
My father actually donates his,but that's not the point really the system is a farce..
Means testing comes in for a lot of critisism but if someone can come up with something better i'm all ears.Just giving everybody if for free is just not the answer as you cant do that for everything..
And surely nobody can argue that ex pat Brit pensioners sat on a balcony in the costa del sol enjoying a sangria on the British tax payer is a good use of public funds..
I left school in 1964 and retired in 2014 just short of my 66th birthday. I paid tax for most of those years and still pay tax now. I earned my pension and if I decided to live abroad for a year or two why should I forfeit my pension? I would still be paying UK tax.
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Making the broadband means tested, in my eyes, is like making free access to libraries means tested.
The internet is the biggest library that ever existed; it should be free to everyone. It's a great policy and will bring the UK into the 21st century, alongside the likes of Japan and South Korea.
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the internet is just the communication line to the library :)
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I don't recall this much porn in Carcroft Library........
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The vast majority of the cost involved in the broadband plan is in the provision of the infrastructure, which is a national investment to enable future economic development in line with other economies.
Once that cost is met from the public purse, and from loans at or near zero interest to government, the service provision is a low marginal cost addition.
I don't see what the benefit of means testing is in this industry, unless you think that the principle should apply to all basic utility access...including those provided by the private sector.
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https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/labour-tax-plans-could-cost-1bn-qr03vcbbf
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As before, what are the costs of not doing the policies that will be in the manifesto?
Perhaps more important, who will bear the brunt of those services not provided, and how will that impact wider economic development going forwards?
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Hi Albie - probably you and I and lots of others on here will not be surprised if all Parties promise x,y and z if they are elected, and then once they are they will find a way to "weasel out" of massively water down the thing(s) they promised to deliver
and SURPRISE they will expect people to accept it as they usually will
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Labour promising the moon on a stick, Johnson promising a BRITISH moon on a BRITISH stick.
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Labour promising the moon on a stick, Johnson Tories promising a BRITISH moron or a BRITISH **ick.