Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: Dare to dream! on June 25, 2020, 08:44:19 am
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Disappointing as he is one of our best players but looks like he rejected a new deal.
https://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/sport/football/exclusive-duo-offered-new-deals-doncaster-rovers-darren-moore-releases-three-senior-players-2893210
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Unfortunately that has been on the cards since before the pandemic I think
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Signed new deal
Greaves
Offered new deals
L Jones
Amos
Blair
Coppinger
Released
Baptiste
Blaney
McLean
Kiwomya
Watters
Gibbons
Boocock
D Cole
Sadlier - Offered contract but doesn't want to stay
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Released? Surely he just hasn't accepted a new contract, so leaves by choice. Not the same...
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Bit of both no doubt. Lets be realistic we can't be offering improved terms with no income it's financially sensible. A shame yes but realism isn't it. We will get someone else that's how it goes.
Also can't knock him if he has interest at higher level, it's fair enough.
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Released? Surely he just hasn't accepted a new contract, so leaves by choice. Not the same...
Very different.
Sads will have a deal lined up elsewhere no doubt.
No one can have a go at him over this if he can get a better deal for himself.
The DFP article also says that Matty B and Copps will be offered a contract on lower terms so there is no guarantee that they will stay (if the article is correct of course).
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Released? Surely he just hasn't accepted a new contract, so leaves by choice. Not the same...
Very different.
Sads will have a deal lined up elsewhere no doubt.
No one can have a go at him over this if he can get a better deal for himself.
The DFP article also says that Matty B and Copps will be offered a contract on lower terms so there is no guarantee that they will stay (if the article is correct of course).
He might not have one yet. He might just be holding out in the hope of one similar to Jon Taylor.
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Surprised at Cole didn't get long enough to show what he can do. Had a good chant as well.
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Released? Surely he just hasn't accepted a new contract, so leaves by choice. Not the same...
Very different.
Sads will have a deal lined up elsewhere no doubt.
No one can have a go at him over this if he can get a better deal for himself.
The DFP article also says that Matty B and Copps will be offered a contract on lower terms so there is no guarantee that they will stay (if the article is correct of course).
The article says reduced terms at this stage, so there will be room for movement
“ only reduced terms will be offered to Coppinger and Blair at this stage, until the club’s financial position is more secure.”
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Released? Surely he just hasn't accepted a new contract, so leaves by choice. Not the same...
Very different.
Sads will have a deal lined up elsewhere no doubt.
No one can have a go at him over this if he can get a better deal for himself.
The DFP article also says that Matty B and Copps will be offered a contract on lower terms so there is no guarantee that they will stay (if the article is correct of course).
He might not have one yet. He might just be holding out in the hope of one similar to Jon Taylor.
True of course.
Not many people will know the real story.
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Released? Surely he just hasn't accepted a new contract, so leaves by choice. Not the same...
Very different.
Sads will have a deal lined up elsewhere no doubt.
No one can have a go at him over this if he can get a better deal for himself.
The DFP article also says that Matty B and Copps will be offered a contract on lower terms so there is no guarantee that they will stay (if the article is correct of course).
The article says reduced terms at this stage, so there will be room for movement
“ only reduced terms will be offered to Coppinger and Blair at this stage, until the club’s financial position is more secure.”
Yes I read that.
However we don’t know how long it will be before the financial position will be more secure and how long the reduced terms will be for.
It reminds me of a bloke who once offered me a job, he said he couldn’t pay me what I was on at that time but that he would pay me more than that when he could afford it.
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Surprised to see Watters leave. Moore seemed to be giving him game time.
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Cole was here just going through the motions - all he had going for him was a chant/song from the Black Bank - I’d sooner have a less able player giving his all than a prancing show pony - delighted that Copps & Matty been offered terms again, surely both will sign
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Very happy Amos has been offered a new deal, he should be pushing for the start this season.
Not sure on Jones as I've never really seen him other than in friendlies. Lawlor I don't feel is what we need and Dieng showed us that. Perhaps Jones has similar qualities to Dieng?
Not fussed either way on Blair, he's an OK backup but could we get someone younger for similar or less wage?
Kiwomya going is good news though. He's had 3 managers now and has never been more than a reserve player for the wage he was on.
Surprised to see Watters leave. Moore seemed to be giving him game time.
Yeah thats the one I'm surprised on.
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Not much room for sentiment. Copps and Blair maybe but Cole was OK but didn't warrant the extension.
Sadlier was inevitable which ever way you want to look at it. Had we have achieved promotion (twice) then he may have stayed but he wants to step up and nobody can blame him for that. I just hope he makes a good choice!
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No surprise it was obvious to me Sadlier was off, even before the pandemic.
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No surprise it was obvious to me Sadlier was off, even before the pandemic.
I tend to agree. Irrespective of what we would have offered, I don't think he was likely to re-sign.
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I was told at Christmas Sadlier was going to the championship. Clubs were sniffing them and offers were expected but he decided to sit it out.
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Surprised with Watters.. Thought they'd have at least offered another year. Be interesting to have seen what would have happened with him had the season not finished early and the changes to the budget. Also what's the crack with Boocock? He was supposedly the next big thing made his debut against Palace but barely seen since?
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No real shocks in that list tbh apart from Watters that is.He looked good when he came in and DM was pretty glowing about him but times are tough right now.As for Sadlier as good a player as he is,i didn't think he was worth pushing the boat out for,we offered what we thought he was worth and he thinks he can get a Championship club.I think he will get a lower level Championship club but unless it's Rotherham cant see him making much impact at that level yet..
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In a normal season players of quality like Sadlier would have been seen a ‘must keep ‘ but now with what looks like a rebuilding season .We don’t have a volume of senior players to choose from so bringing in players who are out of contract and more loans is the likely aim . As there has been little offer money coming in from the EfL or Premier League , so Rovers etc are on their own .
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Difficult times
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In a normal season players of quality like Sadlier would have been seen a ‘must keep ‘ but now with what looks like a rebuilding season .We don’t have a volume of senior players to choose from so bringing in players who are out of contract and more loans is the likely aim . As there has been little offer money coming in from the EfL or Premier League , so Rovers etc are on their own .
He was offered a contract before the league shutdown and never signed it, we don’t know if that same contract offer was still on the table or not, if it was, unless he has a Club lined up in the Championship, he’s taking a big gamble on finding somewhere within his wage demands given the current financial climate in football right now
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In a normal season players of quality like Sadlier would have been seen a ‘must keep ‘ but now with what looks like a rebuilding season .We don’t have a volume of senior players to choose from so bringing in players who are out of contract and more loans is the likely aim . As there has been little offer money coming in from the EfL or Premier League , so Rovers etc are on their own .
He was offered a contract before the league shutdown and never signed it, we don’t know if that same contract offer was still on the table or not, if it was, unless he has a Club lined up in the Championship, he’s taking a big gamble on finding somewhere within his wage demands given the current financial climate in football right now
Agreed Filo, I can only assume he has something definite from another club.
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Don’t see the Sadlier departure a big issue really. We picked him up presumably for peanuts and paid him similarly. He was a good player for us and obviously wants to play at higher level, so was waiting till potential play offs etc before maybe then signing and staying. From what Liam Hoden is saying, our deal remains on table but he is looking at other options, so will likely leave if he can get a better deal. He is out of contract so he has the freedom to do that. Only frustration is that we will not get a bean for him, although in turn we got 18 months from him at presumably little cost.
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Every club is in the same boat.As well as the normal players who would be released there is going to be a lot of players joining them who would normally have been offered a new contract by there clubs
I suspect the players who clubs sign this summer to make a team will be on low terms and short term deals.Players wont want to sign 2 or 3 year deals on terrible money,they would rather sign 6 months-1 year deals so they can re-negotiate better terms when clubs get there incomes back..
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Hoden's just tweeted that the door isn't completely closed on Sadlier, but he's waiting to see how the Championship season plays out. But I wouldn't hold out much hope personally.
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With six months or less remaining on an existing contract any player aged 23 or older is free to negotiate with other clubs and sign a pre-contract agreement... I expect that a Championship club (probably Hull) have scooped him up.
Let's hope he signed the contract prior to this CV19 business, and doesn't still have to negotiate...
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Apparently, he won’t know whether he’s got a deal, or not, until after the Championship season is done. If it’s Hull, he may as well sign for us!
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The rumour across in Hull is that he’s agreed to join them in principle if they stay in the Championship. Why anyone would want to join them I’ve no idea...
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The rumour across in Hull is that he’s agreed to join them in principle if they stay in the Championship. Why anyone would want to join them I’ve no idea...
It'll be the McCann factor.. Although i can't see him being there next season
https://twitter.com/Essential_Alex/status/1274994684457345024?s=20 This makes for interesting reading what the Athletic leaked regarding Hull's budget etc
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He will go where the money is if we offered him say 3k a week but hull dropped into league one but offered 3.2k a week he will go there
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Not a good time for any young player to be released, and a few of those were not a million miles away from probably getting something in normal times, if not with us other teams lower down.
I wish them all the best of luck whatever they now aspire to do, unfortunately we are one of those clubs that whenever we unearth a player above the average, other bigger clubs will try and turn their heads to go to them, and we are not the only club in that position. McCann may not be at Hull in a couple of weeks and things may change if they are after him.
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Hoden's just tweeted that the door isn't completely closed on Sadlier, but he's waiting to see how the Championship season plays out. But I wouldn't hold out much hope personally.
Thats interesting, I wonder if it’s Hull that he’s lined up and he’s waiting to see if they stay in the Championship
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Get in Lokilo and Pereira and we're not far off for the attacking 3 with Coppinger and Taylor in there too.
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Get in Lokilo and Pereira and we're not far off for the attacking 3 with Coppinger and Taylor in there too.
How do you know Copps will sign a new contract?
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He will go where the money is if we offered him say 3k a week but hull dropped into league one but offered 3.2k a week he will go there
If the difference was only £200 a week and Hull are in League 1 imo he would be barmy to leave us.
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Get in Lokilo and Pereira and we're not far off for the attacking 3 with Coppinger and Taylor in there too.
How do you know Copps will sign a new contract?
I don't. I'm just basing it on the assumption we keep the players we've offered contracts to.
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Thought Blaney & Watters might have been offered deals.
Can only think it is either an attitude problem he may have or a financial one as a reason Cole was not offered a contract.
Greaves was a bit of a surprise to me as i have not been overly impressed when i have seen him in the check a trade matches.
I know Brian ( Selby ) has seen him play often in the development team and usually had a good word to say about his performances.
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Get in Lokilo and Pereira and we're not far off for the attacking 3 with Coppinger and Taylor in there too.
How do you know Copps will sign a new contract?
I don't. I'm just basing it on the assumption we keep the players we've offered contracts to.
We offered Sadlier a contract.
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Thought Blaney & Watters might have been offered deals.
Can only think it is either an attitude problem he may have or a financial one as a reason Cole was not offered a contract.
Greaves was a bit of a surprise to me as i have not been overly impressed when i have seen him in the check a trade matches.
I know Brian ( Selby ) has seen him play often in the development team and usually had a good word to say about his performances.
I was very underwhelmed by Cole.
Maybe DM also thought the same.
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Thought Blaney & Watters might have been offered deals.
Can only think it is either an attitude problem he may have or a financial one as a reason Cole was not offered a contract.
Greaves was a bit of a surprise to me as i have not been overly impressed when i have seen him in the check a trade matches.
I know Brian ( Selby ) has seen him play often in the development team and usually had a good word to say about his performances.
I am guessing a bit here, but if a maximum of 20 ‘senior’ players were to be introduced, and if the definition of senior is over 21 on 1 September, then both Blaney and Watters would count as 2 of the 20. So would Jones, but Amos, Greaves, Horton and Hasani wouldn’t count. If that is true then that might explain some of the decisions.
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Thought Blaney & Watters might have been offered deals.
Can only think it is either an attitude problem he may have or a financial one as a reason Cole was not offered a contract.
Greaves was a bit of a surprise to me as i have not been overly impressed when i have seen him in the check a trade matches.
I know Brian ( Selby ) has seen him play often in the development team and usually had a good word to say about his performances.
I was very underwhelmed by Cole.
Maybe DM also thought the same.
Yes hound he may well have been. So it would seem likely that it’s an attitude rather than ability problem.
I think he has considerable ability but no manager yet seems to have got him playing consistently to his true potential. He is very much a journey man. There is usually a reason.
I was hoping DM would be the man to turn Cole into the player he could be.
But no manager is a miracle worker and if the player doesn’t want it badly enough!!!
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Get in Lokilo and Pereira and we're not far off for the attacking 3 with Coppinger and Taylor in there too.
How do you know Copps will sign a new contract?
I don't. I'm just basing it on the assumption we keep the players we've offered contracts to.
We offered Sadlier a contract.
I believe the offer is still there
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We should go after Lokilo and sheaf if we sell Whiteman.
Hopefully it won’t be another get into the season before picking up stop gaps. Once the league say when we can start we get as much of the the team together as quick as possible
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Just spoken to my pal who lives up in Hull. As mentioned earlier in the thread, it’s no great secret that Hull are keen to sign him. The feeling up there is that he’s waiting to see where Hull are at the end of the season. If they’re still in the Championship, then it’s likely he’ll go there. He’s the same guy who told me McCann was making a big mistake going to Hull and he has the same opinion of Sadlier. The club is rapidly going backwards and right now, there’s no sign of it stopping.
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He will go where the money is if we offered him say 3k a week but hull dropped into league one but offered 3.2k a week he will go there
So his decision making is centred entirely around money is that what you are saying, you know that for a fact do you?
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I was speaking to an recently released Peterborough player and his list was 1. Highest possible level
2. Money
3. Management team
So yes I believe he will go to whoever pays the most, if he gets just 200 pounds a week extra that’s 10 grand a year more of course he would go
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I was speaking to an recently released Peterborough player and his list was 1. Highest possible level
2. Money
3. Management team
So yes I believe he will go to whoever pays the most, if he gets just 200 pounds a week extra that’s 10 grand a year more of course he would go
YOUR WRONG!
I wish you'd stop pratting around with the posters on here, why not just come out with it.
And it's 'you're wrong' not 'your wrong'.
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We will have to look at covering a couple of positions now, Blaney leaving and John not here leaves just Wright and Anderson, without Sheaf and could be Coppinger and Blair midfield, possible a keeper and Striker.
So now the leavers are known Sadlier, Coppinger and Blair possibilities, but hopefully not, we can look forward to seeing new faces coming in, and there will be a lot to choose from.
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SM are there any talks planned on when/how next season can kick off
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No huge surprises in the news.
Sadlier departing was / is expected when we didn’t manage to come to an agreement on new contract terms earlier in the season. The situation clearly changes post-pandemic and it’s now understandable why the club would find it difficult to offer improved terms to the ones he’s already on, given the scale of the financial challenges ahead and the uncertainty we face. It’s a shame as he’s a very good player and has been our main goalscorer since Marquis left. But it’s a short career and he’s earned a shot at the championship and the rewards and exposure that come with that.
I’m pleased to see Coppinger has been offered a new deal and I hope agreement can be reached.
Otherwise I think we have to ride this out and get to the other side as best we can. Our low base of contracted players will actually work in our favour on this occasion and it’s hard to even think of strengthening at this point. I’ll happily donate my season ticket money back to the club and look forward to watching again when it’s safe to resume.
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Well said Jonathan, I fully agree with all of that.
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Currently we have 12 contracted players, 9 of those are out of contract in June next year
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Currently we have 12 contracted players, 9 of those are out of contract in June next year
This is what I make it:
2020
13-Louis Jones
16-Danny Amos
17-Matty Blair
26-James Coppinger
27-AJ Greaves
2021
1-Ian Lawlor
2-Brad Halliday
3-Reece James
5-Joe Wright
10-Jon Taylor
12-Mager Gomes
28-Branden Horton
2022
4-Tom Anderson
9-Feijri Okenabirhie
35-Lirak Hasani
2023
8-Ben Whiteman
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SM are there any talks planned on when/how next season can kick off
Yes and no.
They all have it in their heads that the end of September would be a good time to start, but its all dependent. I'm sure the EFL are waiting to get the play-offs out of the way.
But when I spoke about this the other day there's nothing in the diary to even begin to discuss this, and that start date is crucial.
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I hope nobody is depending on the EFL to move quickly, never mind making a decision.
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Won’t it be the clubs who decide, by voting.?
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Perhaps, if they ever get round to arranging a meeting.
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Cole was here just going through the motions - all he had going for him was a chant/song from the Black Bank - I’d sooner have a less able player giving his all than a prancing show pony - delighted that Copps & Matty been offered terms again, surely both will sign
Have to agree Branton. I so wanted Cole to succeed with us but apart from the odd flash he didn't prove to be anything special. DM gave him a chance and he didn't take it.
Sadlier's a shame. One of our few genuine gems. Genuinely deserving of a higher level; I hope he finds a decent club. But for us, no fee, no replacement, not sure what that says about how we manage player contracts? Let's put it down to the extremely challenging circumstances that L1 and L2 football finds itself in.
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We took a lad from what is by and large semi-pro in Ireland, with very little record in English football. If we had given him a three year deal and he was not up to the English game, then we have a Kiwomya on our hands. It was a decent punt on him that did not quite come off, but we got 18 months from him. Not more that can be said really.
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I would be astonished if Sads went to Hull.
I reckon he will do much better for himself.
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You can't expect rovers to go and pick top players from other clubs on frees then not expect other club's not to pick our top players
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Who knows what would have happened had we not been subject again to injustice at The Valley, but we could potentially today have a side with Wilks, Kane and Sadlier in there.
Such is life and the most important point is that we have a decent chance next season of a side with James Coppinger in there.
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Hope the fact copps has been sat with his trotters upand won't feel worn out at the end of a full season will work in our favour, he'll not want to retire this way either!? Sign off with a promotion Jamie lad? You know it makes sense 👍
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I guess with Sadlier moving on we will lose one of our posters lol
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We took a lad from what is by and large semi-pro in Ireland, with very little record in English football. If we had given him a three year deal and he was not up to the English game, then we have a Kiwomya on our hands. It was a decent punt on him that did not quite come off, but we got 18 months from him. Not more that can be said really.
It's not a semi professional league.
It's also a league where the likes of Roy Keane, Ray Houghton, Ronnie Whelan, Damien Duff, Paul McGrath, Robbie Keane, Steve Staunton, Stephen Carr, Niall Quinn, Seamus Coleman, Kevin Kilbane, Gary Kelly, Ian Harte, Glenn Whelan, Andy Townshend, Matt Holland Rory Delap & Shat Given have come front play in the EPL. I won't go onto list the players that have come out of Ireland and made a career playing in the Championship or Leagues One a & Two.
So not sure it was a punt as you put it!
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Shat Given....what a guy!
Still, all the best to Kieran wherever he ends up.
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We took a lad from what is by and large semi-pro in Ireland, with very little record in English football. If we had given him a three year deal and he was not up to the English game, then we have a Kiwomya on our hands. It was a decent punt on him that did not quite come off, but we got 18 months from him. Not more that can be said really.
It's not a semi professional league.
It's also a league where the likes of Roy Keane, Ray Houghton, Ronnie Whelan, Damien Duff, Paul McGrath, Robbie Keane, Steve Staunton, Stephen Carr, Niall Quinn, Seamus Coleman, Kevin Kilbane, Gary Kelly, Ian Harte, Glenn Whelan, Andy Townshend, Matt Holland Rory Delap & Shat Given have come front play in the EPL. I won't go onto list the players that have come out of Ireland and made a career playing in the Championship or Leagues One a & Two.
So not sure it was a punt as you put it!
Andy Townsend, Ray Houghton,Matt Holland and Rory Delap have never played in the Irish league
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I think we can get the gist of what ND is saying though.
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I think we can get the gist of what ND is saying though.
Yes the Irish League has produced one or two decent players, but not as many as he’d like you to think
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We took a lad from what is by and large semi-pro in Ireland, with very little record in English football. If we had given him a three year deal and he was not up to the English game, then we have a Kiwomya on our hands. It was a decent punt on him that did not quite come off, but we got 18 months from him. Not more that can be said really.
It's not a semi professional league.
It's also a league where the likes of Roy Keane, Ray Houghton, Ronnie Whelan, Damien Duff, Paul McGrath, Robbie Keane, Steve Staunton, Stephen Carr, Niall Quinn, Seamus Coleman, Kevin Kilbane, Gary Kelly, Ian Harte, Glenn Whelan, Andy Townshend, Matt Holland Rory Delap & Shat Given have come front play in the EPL. I won't go onto list the players that have come out of Ireland and made a career playing in the Championship or Leagues One a & Two.
So not sure it was a punt as you put it!
Andy Townsend, Ray Houghton,Matt Holland and Rory Delap have never played in the Irish league
Nor have Damien Duff, Robbie Keane, Niall Quinn, Stephen Carr...
EDIT - seems Damien Duff did actually, but at the end of his career. Hardly makes him a pin up for the success of the Irish League as a breeding ground for decent footballing careers though!
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We took a lad from what is by and large semi-pro in Ireland, with very little record in English football. If we had given him a three year deal and he was not up to the English game, then we have a Kiwomya on our hands. It was a decent punt on him that did not quite come off, but we got 18 months from him. Not more that can be said really.
It's not a semi professional league.
It's also a league where the likes of Roy Keane, Ray Houghton, Ronnie Whelan, Damien Duff, Paul McGrath, Robbie Keane, Steve Staunton, Stephen Carr, Niall Quinn, Seamus Coleman, Kevin Kilbane, Gary Kelly, Ian Harte, Glenn Whelan, Andy Townshend, Matt Holland Rory Delap & Shat Given have come front play in the EPL. I won't go onto list the players that have come out of Ireland and made a career playing in the Championship or Leagues One a & Two.
So not sure it was a punt as you put it!
Andy Townsend, Ray Houghton,Matt Holland and Rory Delap have never played in the Irish league
Nor have Damien Duff, Robbie Keane, Niall Quinn, Stephen Carr...
EDIT - seems Damien Duff did actually, but at the end of his career. Hardly makes him a pin up for the success of the Irish League as a breeding ground for decent footballing careers though!
Ok so some might not have played in the league, shall I list all those that HAVE PLAYED in The League of Ireland & have either played and or are still playing in the Championship then as clearly your not getting the point I am making.
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I think we can get the gist of what ND is saying though.
Yes the Irish League has produced one or two decent players, but not as many as he’d like you to think
You would be very surprised, a lot more than you would think.
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Paul Keegan, Tommy Gaynor.?
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We took a lad from what is by and large semi-pro in Ireland, with very little record in English football. If we had given him a three year deal and he was not up to the English game, then we have a Kiwomya on our hands. It was a decent punt on him that did not quite come off, but we got 18 months from him. Not more that can be said really.
It's not a semi professional league.
It's also a league where the likes of Roy Keane, Ray Houghton, Ronnie Whelan, Damien Duff, Paul McGrath, Robbie Keane, Steve Staunton, Stephen Carr, Niall Quinn, Seamus Coleman, Kevin Kilbane, Gary Kelly, Ian Harte, Glenn Whelan, Andy Townshend, Matt Holland Rory Delap & Shat Given have come front play in the EPL. I won't go onto list the players that have come out of Ireland and made a career playing in the Championship or Leagues One a & Two.
So not sure it was a punt as you put it!
Andy Townsend, Ray Houghton,Matt Holland and Rory Delap have never played in the Irish league
Nor have Damien Duff, Robbie Keane, Niall Quinn, Stephen Carr...
EDIT - seems Damien Duff did actually, but at the end of his career. Hardly makes him a pin up for the success of the Irish League as a breeding ground for decent footballing careers though!
Ok so some might not have played in the league, shall I list all those that HAVE PLAYED in The League of Ireland & have either played and or are still playing in the Championship then as clearly your not getting the point I am making.
Feel free but probably best not to just list Irish internationals who may or may not have played in the Irish league this time.
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Or who’s grandfather’s mate’s dog used to lap Guinness from a saucer in the pub..
That’s not a dig at the Irish by the way, more a reference to the national side when Jack Charlton was in charge..
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I think we can get the gist of what ND is saying though.
Yes the Irish League has produced one or two decent players, but not as many as he’d like you to think
You would be very surprised, a lot more than you would think.
Crack on, half of your last list never played in the Irish league, one was Scottish, a few of the others were English, we’re all ears
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Reading had a decent spell of signing players from Ireland like Shane Long and Kevin Doyle.
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We took a lad from what is by and large semi-pro in Ireland, with very little record in English football. If we had given him a three year deal and he was not up to the English game, then we have a Kiwomya on our hands. It was a decent punt on him that did not quite come off, but we got 18 months from him. Not more that can be said really.
It's not a semi professional league.
It's also a league where the likes of Roy Keane, Ray Houghton, Ronnie Whelan, Damien Duff, Paul McGrath, Robbie Keane, Steve Staunton, Stephen Carr, Niall Quinn, Seamus Coleman, Kevin Kilbane, Gary Kelly, Ian Harte, Glenn Whelan, Andy Townshend, Matt Holland Rory Delap & Shat Given have come front play in the EPL. I won't go onto list the players that have come out of Ireland and made a career playing in the Championship or Leagues One a & Two.
So not sure it was a punt as you put it!
Just for a bit of context, the following players came from the English non-League system
Ian Wright
Stuart Pearce
Les Ferdinand
Davis Platt
Stan Collymore
Jamie Vardy
Troy Deeney
Ashley Williams
Chris Smalling
Kevin Phillips
Gary Hooper
Rickie Lambert
Michail Antonio
Draw your own conclusions.
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Paul Keegan, Tommy Gaynor.?
EPL/Division One: Liam Miller, Alan Bennet, Kevin Doyle, David Forde, Stephen Ward, Stephen Ireland, Wes Hoolahan, Shane Long, James McClean, Kevin Moran, David Kelly, Robbie Brady, Brad Jones, Enda Stevens, Jeff Hendrick, Damian Delaney, Colin Healy
Championship: Sean Maguire, Darryl Horgan, Alan Brown, Kevin Long, Aaron Connelly, Chiedozi Ogbene, Trevor Clarke, Connor Masterson, Ronan Curtsi, Dara O'Shea, James Collins, Alan Judge and thats without researching players..............
Anyway, more than you think started out in the League of Ireland or in lower divisions in Ireland with Kevins Boys or Home Farm and have gone onto make successful careers in England.
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I think we can get the gist of what ND is saying though.
Yes the Irish League has produced one or two decent players, but not as many as he’d like you to think
You would be very surprised, a lot more than you would think.
Crack on, half of your last list never played in the Irish league, one was Scottish, a few of the others were English, we’re all ears
Why the negativity and obvious dislike for Irish football?
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:that:
Or who’s grandfather’s mate’s dog used to lap Guinness from a saucer in the pub..
That’s not a dig at the Irish by the way, more a reference to the national side when Jack Charlton was in charge..
Does the same reference also apply to the England cricket team which for many years has included more than its fair share of non English players?
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“Grandfather’s mate’s dog”..
It’s clearly a joke reference to how JC picked his teams - wasn’t Cascarino picked due to a great grandparent being Irish only.?
As for cricket, do you recall when Graeme Hick came over from Zimbabwe in the peak of his form and had to play cricket in England for five years before he could play for the country.? By which time he was a shadow of the outstanding batsman he was before.
At the same time, Zola Budd - a South African - was allowed to compete for GB in the Olympics after a period of months only. She failed, ultimately.
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For what it’s worth, I believe the Irish league will be no better nor worse than any other country with similar population. Ireland also has other sports popular and unique to their country.
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League Of Ireland Premier Division
- Sseairtricity League ie - Republic of Ireland.
Irish Premiership - Danske Bank Premiership - Northern Ireland.
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We took a lad from what is by and large semi-pro in Ireland, with very little record in English football. If we had given him a three year deal and he was not up to the English game, then we have a Kiwomya on our hands. It was a decent punt on him that did not quite come off, but we got 18 months from him. Not more that can be said really.
It's not a semi professional league.
It's also a league where the likes of Roy Keane, Ray Houghton, Ronnie Whelan, Damien Duff, Paul McGrath, Robbie Keane, Steve Staunton, Stephen Carr, Niall Quinn, Seamus Coleman, Kevin Kilbane, Gary Kelly, Ian Harte, Glenn Whelan, Andy Townshend, Matt Holland Rory Delap & Shat Given have come front play in the EPL. I won't go onto list the players that have come out of Ireland and made a career playing in the Championship or Leagues One a & Two.
So not sure it was a punt as you put it!
You missed Roy Keane
Played for Cobh Rangers
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We took a lad from what is by and large semi-pro in Ireland, with very little record in English football. If we had given him a three year deal and he was not up to the English game, then we have a Kiwomya on our hands. It was a decent punt on him that did not quite come off, but we got 18 months from him. Not more that can be said really.
It's not a semi professional league.
It's also a league where the likes of Roy Keane, Ray Houghton, Ronnie Whelan, Damien Duff, Paul McGrath, Robbie Keane, Steve Staunton, Stephen Carr, Niall Quinn, Seamus Coleman, Kevin Kilbane, Gary Kelly, Ian Harte, Glenn Whelan, Andy Townshend, Matt Holland Rory Delap & Shat Given have come front play in the EPL. I won't go onto list the players that have come out of Ireland and made a career playing in the Championship or Leagues One a & Two.
So not sure it was a punt as you put it!
You missed Roy Keane
Played for Cobh Rangers
Ahem, Roy Keane is the first name on his list.
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We took a lad from what is by and large semi-pro in Ireland, with very little record in English football. If we had given him a three year deal and he was not up to the English game, then we have a Kiwomya on our hands. It was a decent punt on him that did not quite come off, but we got 18 months from him. Not more that can be said really.
It's not a semi professional league.
It's also a league where the likes of Roy Keane, Ray Houghton, Ronnie Whelan, Damien Duff, Paul McGrath, Robbie Keane, Steve Staunton, Stephen Carr, Niall Quinn, Seamus Coleman, Kevin Kilbane, Gary Kelly, Ian Harte, Glenn Whelan, Andy Townshend, Matt Holland Rory Delap & Shat Given have come front play in the EPL. I won't go onto list the players that have come out of Ireland and made a career playing in the Championship or Leagues One a & Two.
So not sure it was a punt as you put it!
You missed Roy Keane
Played for Cobh Rangers
Ahem, Roy Keane is the first name on his list.
It was added after I posted *possibly*
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Obviously been looking to leave for some time. He has the right to go where he wants and I wish him well. However, what I don”t agree with is holding his offer open. Move on. A little bit like the situation with Taylor and Rotherham last year.
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Paul Keegan, Tommy Gaynor.?
EPL/Division One: Liam Miller, Kevin Doyle, David Forde, Stephen Ward, Wes Hoolahan, Shane Long, James McClean, Kevin Moran, David Kelly, Robbie Brady, Brad Jones, Enda Stevens, Jeff Hendrick,
Championship: Sean Maguire, Darryl Horgan, Alan Brown, Kevin Long, Aaron Connelly and thats without researching players..............
Anyway, more than you think started out in the League of Ireland or in lower divisions in Ireland with Kevins Boys or Home Farm and have gone onto make successful careers in England.
You’ll be New Tiger on the Hull forum then 🤪
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Paul Keegan, Tommy Gaynor.?
Eddie Gormley. Played for Bray Wanderers before coming to England.
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Colin Hawkins we signed him from St Patrick Ath, but had been at Coventry before that and would be again
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A lot of talk of him going to scum just down the road
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Scum? Please expand
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All rumours of course but the one i've heard is that he had a provision deal with Hull if they stay up and GM doesn't get sacked but now Rotherham are interested in him now there promotion is confirmed.
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I heard the Rotherham rumour as well.
The Hull thing surprises me because I was under the impression that Sadlier didn't get along with McCann.
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As said by most above, rumours are just that. People love putting two and two together. Thing is, Sadlier is a good player and deserves a crack at the next level. He can score with left, right and headers so he is an attractive proposition for a number of clubs I would expect.
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As said by most above, rumours are just that. People love putting two and two together. Thing is, Sadlier is a good player and deserves a crack at the next level. He can score with left, right and headers so he is an attractive proposition for a number of clubs I would expect.
Dead right DBR, Sads will go on to better things.
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Well I wish the boy well wherever he ends up, but, going to Hull Rotherham or Barnsley and if the correct number of points are taken off Sheffield Wednesday and thinking about it Huddersfiel Town if he goes to any of them down the road there is a very good chance he will be playing Division 1 football either next season or the season after.
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Sadlier is bound to attract plenty of interest and have a choice of clubs to pick from. The goals and assists return and the ability to play off both feet and score with his head gives lots to work with. We need to replace that contribution (when the time comes) and that won’t be easy.
The difficult decision for any footballer is finding the right fit, and considering the likely exposure / long term prospects etc. etc. We ourselves will expect to pick up good players when the time is right, and we’ll expect them to choose us irrespective of the level that the outside world may perceive that we’ll be competing at in the coming years.
Any career move is a gamble but I think Sads will have a fair choice to pick from and will take the various pros and cons into account alongside his advisers. Good luck to him, he’s shown before he’s not afraid of taking a risk or uprooting, and it’s got his career into a good position. I respect that.
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Attracting interest and securing a deal that he thinks is worthy of his abilities is another.
With all contracts expiring today, and those not signed up, will get caught in the salary cap proposals that the EFL are intent on introducing for the next season. In addition the salary cap proposals also include bonuses and agents fees. It might not be just players who feel the pinch.
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Big Daz says the door is not closed with Sadlier, a deal is there and he is keeping in touch with him says Free Press
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Attracting interest and securing a deal that he thinks is worthy of his abilities is another.
I don’t get the impression he’s been over valuing himself. I’d imagine he arrived at DRFC on a (in the scheme of things and relative to our higher earners) fairly modest 18 month contract. In that time he’s grown in stature and been up there as our most productive player this season, with plenty more development still in him. By my reckoning that gives him the right to expect improved contract terms, and if that’s not forthcoming here then I’d expect there’ll be offers elsewhere, probably with the added incentive of Championship football too. He’s a human being and he has to look out for himself. He’s quietly got on with it here, there’s never been a cross word said either way between him and the club and he deserves better than an insinuation that he has an inflated value of himself.
We all look for some recognition of improvement in our career progression, if he didn’t then he’d be undervaluing himself and his contribution.
If he was to stay I’d be delighted as I enjoy watching him play and he scores goals. But, realistically, I expect he’ll move on and pursue an opportunity in the Championship and good luck to him. Our task will be to replace him, and replace his goals, whether directly from that position or elsewhere in the team. Wide players capable of hitting 10-15 goals a season are a rare and expensive breed so it may be the latter.
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Well said Jonathan.
Also if Sads does get a deal with a Championship club then he probably has more chance of improving on his earnings.
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Attracting interest and securing a deal that he thinks is worthy of his abilities is another.
I don’t get the impression he’s been over valuing himself. I’d imagine he arrived at DRFC on a (in the scheme of things and relative to our higher earners) fairly modest 18 month contract. In that time he’s grown in stature and been up there as our most productive player this season, with plenty more development still in him. By my reckoning that gives him the right to expect improved contract terms, and if that’s not forthcoming here then I’d expect there’ll be offers elsewhere, probably with the added incentive of Championship football too. He’s a human being and he has to look out for himself. He’s quietly got on with it here, there’s never been a cross word said either way between him and the club and he deserves better than an insinuation that he has an inflated value of himself.
We all look for some recognition of improvement in our career progression, if he didn’t then he’d be undervaluing himself and his contribution.
If he was to stay I’d be delighted as I enjoy watching him play and he scores goals. But, realistically, I expect he’ll move on and pursue an opportunity in the Championship and good luck to him. Our task will be to replace him, and replace his goals, whether directly from that position or elsewhere in the team. Wide players capable of hitting 10-15 goals a season are a rare and expensive breed so it may be the latter.
Nobody knows for sure, but I suspect the debate is not about improved contract terms on what he was on. Could be wrong, but I imagine we were offering a material improvement on what he was on when we took him out of the Irish league. Also from the words Moore has used (contract remained on table etc) it did not sound like we reduced terms we first offered pre-COVID to post-COVID.
Question rather appears then to be not if we offered improved terms, but as SM suggests, whether we offered what he valued himself at - along with a desire to play at highest level possible.
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Attracting interest and securing a deal that he thinks is worthy of his abilities is another.
I don’t get the impression he’s been over valuing himself. I’d imagine he arrived at DRFC on a (in the scheme of things and relative to our higher earners) fairly modest 18 month contract. In that time he’s grown in stature and been up there as our most productive player this season, with plenty more development still in him. By my reckoning that gives him the right to expect improved contract terms, and if that’s not forthcoming here then I’d expect there’ll be offers elsewhere, probably with the added incentive of Championship football too. He’s a human being and he has to look out for himself. He’s quietly got on with it here, there’s never been a cross word said either way between him and the club and he deserves better than an insinuation that he has an inflated value of himself.
We all look for some recognition of improvement in our career progression, if he didn’t then he’d be undervaluing himself and his contribution.
If he was to stay I’d be delighted as I enjoy watching him play and he scores goals. But, realistically, I expect he’ll move on and pursue an opportunity in the Championship and good luck to him. Our task will be to replace him, and replace his goals, whether directly from that position or elsewhere in the team. Wide players capable of hitting 10-15 goals a season are a rare and expensive breed so it may be the latter.
Jonathan,
It's not the first time that you've challenged my posts when I mention Sadlier, (nor hound either) and it's not the first time you've misrepresented what I've said.
There's nowhere in my post that suggests or even mentions that I thought he was overvaluing himself. What I actually said was that securing a deal that he thinks is worthy of his talents is a completely different proposition to actually getting an offer from another club. I didn't say he was overvaluing himself, he may well be on the money, but we don't know that do we? Or shall we just 'imagine', as you say, that he arrived on a fairly modest deal compared to our 'higher earners'. And here's the rub. The last time I mentioned his salary you suggested that the club should just bend over backwards and pay him what he thought he was worth. It's a good job we didn't considering how the summer seems to have panned out, it may well have put pressure on the club to part with other contributors to the team effort.
But it was my proposition that negotiating a deal in this climate cannot be easy. Yes I'm sure a Championship club may be able to meet his demands, but we don't know that, and at this moment in time I doubt most of the clubs will know either. Until the EFL ratify what the squad limits are for all 3 divisions I doubt any club is too sure what they can easily afford. He certainly won't be joining another LG1 side with limits of 22 players and £2.5m as a salary cap leaves no room for manoeuvre. Even more so when he'll have to cover his agents fees as well.
I'm sure you'd be happy, as you say, if he stayed, but he won't be staying now. The very fact his contract has expired makes signing him again that much more difficult due to the restrictions on squad sizes and contracted players. Those already contracted prior to today are guaranteed that their salaries won't be directly affected by the changes, those out of contract are in a much worse position.
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SM, have Coppinger and Blair signed the deals they were offered?
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Attracting interest and securing a deal that he thinks is worthy of his abilities is another.
I don’t get the impression he’s been over valuing himself. I’d imagine he arrived at DRFC on a (in the scheme of things and relative to our higher earners) fairly modest 18 month contract. In that time he’s grown in stature and been up there as our most productive player this season, with plenty more development still in him. By my reckoning that gives him the right to expect improved contract terms, and if that’s not forthcoming here then I’d expect there’ll be offers elsewhere, probably with the added incentive of Championship football too. He’s a human being and he has to look out for himself. He’s quietly got on with it here, there’s never been a cross word said either way between him and the club and he deserves better than an insinuation that he has an inflated value of himself.
We all look for some recognition of improvement in our career progression, if he didn’t then he’d be undervaluing himself and his contribution.
If he was to stay I’d be delighted as I enjoy watching him play and he scores goals. But, realistically, I expect he’ll move on and pursue an opportunity in the Championship and good luck to him. Our task will be to replace him, and replace his goals, whether directly from that position or elsewhere in the team. Wide players capable of hitting 10-15 goals a season are a rare and expensive breed so it may be the latter.
Jonathan,
It's not the first time that you've challenged my posts when I mention Sadlier, (nor hound either) and it's not the first time you've misrepresented what I've said.
There's nowhere in my post that suggests or even mentions that I thought he was overvaluing himself. What I actually said was that securing a deal that he thinks is worthy of his talents is a completely different proposition to actually getting an offer from another club. I didn't say he was overvaluing himself, he may well be on the money, but we don't know that do we? Or shall we just 'imagine', as you say, that he arrived on a fairly modest deal compared to our 'higher earners'. And here's the rub. The last time I mentioned his salary you suggested that the club should just bend over backwards and pay him what he thought he was worth. It's a good job we didn't considering how the summer seems to have panned out, it may well have put pressure on the club to part with other contributors to the team effort.
But it was my proposition that negotiating a deal in this climate cannot be easy. Yes I'm sure a Championship club may be able to meet his demands, but we don't know that, and at this moment in time I doubt most of the clubs will know either. Until the EFL ratify what the squad limits are for all 3 divisions I doubt any club is too sure what they can easily afford. He certainly won't be joining another LG1 side with limits of 22 players and £2.5m as a salary cap leaves no room for manoeuvre. Even more so when he'll have to cover his agents fees as well.
I'm sure you'd be happy, as you say, if he stayed, but he won't be staying now. The very fact his contract has expired makes signing him again that much more difficult due to the restrictions on squad sizes and contracted players. Those already contracted prior to today are guaranteed that their salaries won't be directly affected by the changes, those out of contract are in a much worse position.
You do play a funny card on here sometimes.
Firstly, I’ve offered a different perspective to yours. If you see that as challenging you then I feel you’ve got some of this a little out of proportion.
Secondly, I’d reiterate that choosing to use language like ”securing a deal that he thinks is worthy of his talents” does imply that you feel he’s overvaluing himself. It certainly comes across a little snooty. I appreciate I may have misconstrued your choice of words...
Thirdly, seeing as you’re a stickler for picking out the exact words used, I’d challenge you to find an example of me saying we should “bend over backwards” to pay Sadlier, or any other player, an amount we cannot afford.
My point was, and still is, that at the time discussions started he justified the offer of improved terms. Not a longer contract on the same terms. I have also said elsewhere that I fully accept the pandemic has changed things, and offering an improved contract now is not the same as it would have been in November / December. Not even you knew that COVID-19 would hit back then, I don’t think anyway.