Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: sha66y on January 29, 2021, 11:52:10 am
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A fare bit of promotion talk been happening of late, and bound to increase with every point gained...but does every single football fan in Doncaster actually want to see us promoted this season?
Perhaps a poll might sort out this problem
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League 1 is where life is hardest for football clubs. The revenue streams just aren't there, away fans don't travel in consistently high numbers (admittedly less of an issue this weird season), off pitch revenues fall significantly.
The championship, whilst having its own issues, particularly around inequality with parachute payments, etc, is a much better league for a club like us.
My problem with the championship is that the last time we were there I found some of the teams we faced employed spoiling tactics too often which made for some boring games. Too many teams just desparate not to lose, maybe just stay tight and see if they can nick a goal, rather than looking to go all out to win.
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Surely everyone wants promotion! I get it's always going to be a struggle for us in that division but the wins will just be more memorable considering how out gunned we are and how important each 3 points is come the end of the season.
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League 1 is where life is hardest for football clubs. The revenue streams just aren't there, away fans don't travel in consistently high numbers (admittedly less of an issue this weird season), off pitch revenues fall significantly.
The championship, whilst having its own issues, particularly around inequality with parachute payments, etc, is a much better league for a club like us.
My problem with the championship is that the last time we were there I found some of the teams we faced employed spoiling tactics too often which made for some boring games. Too many teams just desparate not to lose, maybe just stay tight and see if they can nick a goal, rather than looking to go all out to win.
Agreed, but I think we'd be mad to not want to get there.
I think we all want to see Rovers grow the fanbase long-term. I think a run of years where we are in the Championship, or even yo-yoing between the Champ and L1 would surely create some buzz and excitement around the place and complement the work going on in the community to expand the fanbase, and make us a bigger and stronger club as a whole.
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League 1 is where life is hardest for football clubs. The revenue streams just aren't there, away fans don't travel in consistently high numbers (admittedly less of an issue this weird season), off pitch revenues fall significantly.
The championship, whilst having its own issues, particularly around inequality with parachute payments, etc, is a much better league for a club like us.
My problem with the championship is that the last time we were there I found some of the teams we faced employed spoiling tactics too often which made for some boring games. Too many teams just desparate not to lose, maybe just stay tight and see if they can nick a goal, rather than looking to go all out to win.
Agreed, but I think we'd be mad to not want to get there.
I think we all want to see Rovers grow the fanbase long-term. I think a run of years where we are in the Championship, or even yo-yoing between the Champ and L1 would surely create some buzz and excitement around the place and complement the work going on in the community to expand the fanbase, and make us a bigger and stronger club as a whole.
Don't get me wrong, I want us to get there.
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Perhaps a poll might sort out this problem
A poll?!
Sort out what problem?!
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A fare bit of promotion talk been happening of late, and bound to increase with every point gained...but does every single football fan in Doncaster actually want to see us promoted this season?
Perhaps a poll might sort out this problem
If a supporter doesn’t want his team to get promoted, he should really question himself as to why he wants to be a supporter
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I want premonition but not at any cost, it is IF our club can afford to in the current climate, but yes I want it
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Not being funny, but if a club such as Luton can make a decent go of it, why can’t we? They don’t have a massively different infrastructure to ours. It’s about have a good business plan and hoping it works out. It will always be a struggle but it’s not impossible.
Talent identification is massive at that level for us to be sustainable and I think we are on the right lines with that one
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If you don't want promotion, you want your bumps feeling!
You can't pick and choose, you have to take what comes your way, and for those who'll inevitably say "We're not ready" we'll, we just have to be as ready as we possibly can.
I agree with the above and having watched a few Championship highlights the other night, nothings changed. There's some god awful football interspersed with the odd flash of flair and skill. The mantra seems to be to fill your team full of big lads, lump it up and compete for it. More power and pace rather than guile and skill. It's not a new phenomenon, we've been there before and overcome it.
If Rotherham and Barnsley can do it, then we should hold no fear at all.
Take the size of the clubs out of it, the history, the finance etc, just coming down to XI v XI on the pitch, I'd take Darren Moore over the majority of the other Championship managers any day of the week!
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Why would anyone not want to be promoted? What's the alternative? To put on the brakes and say "Hold on lads, we're probably better off where we are in the long run". Why would you not want to play in a higher division against better quality opposition? If any team's ambition from kick off on day one of the season is not to finish top or thereabouts there's something badly wrong. I'm pretty sure our players are not giving it all in the hope of a mid table finish, and even with covid and monetary issues, why would our fans not want to see us go up? How many of the current squad would we keep if we didn't? We are on a massive upward curve with a terrific group of players and an outstanding manager. I'd be surprised if any single person connected to the club would want anything other than promotion. The next 10 or so games are going to be tough, but I guarantee that most of those teams will be dreading facing us. Plenty of twists and turns to come but I really believe that we're on the verge of something special. In Darren we trust. Surely we all want promotion. Don't we?
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I want premonition but not at any cost,...
Has this conversation gone all spiritual?
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I always want promotion but don’t particularly enjoy being in the Championship.
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Of course most people want promotion that goes without saying.
I do wonder, should we get up, how many people will almost hold it as a grudge that the board have built steadily and sensibly since last time we were there- despite the current board always stating that they want to get there as self-sustainbly as possible- as opposed to having an alleged godlike figure supposedly bankrolling it for love of the club?
You know what - actually this is very naughty of me and there's no need to bring it up. We are in a great place now with a squad that is building well under the tutelage of an excellent manager - end of!
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It seems to me that the EFL’s commitment is definitely tailored more to Premiership and Championship clubs. I think leagues 1 & 2 are becoming of less interest to them. I maybe a million miles away, of course, but it’s just my gut feeling.
I think if we’re to have a longer term future, then we need to be placing ourselves up there and, hopefully, staying there.
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We need to get promoted if only to give us a better chance of keeping DM. Besides which the Championship is my favourite league.
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League 1 is where life is hardest for football clubs. The revenue streams just aren't there, away fans don't travel in consistently high numbers (admittedly less of an issue this weird season), off pitch revenues fall significantly.
The championship, whilst having its own issues, particularly around inequality with parachute payments, etc, is a much better league for a club like us.
My problem with the championship is that the last time we were there I found some of the teams we faced employed spoiling tactics too often which made for some boring games. Too many teams just desparate not to lose, maybe just stay tight and see if they can nick a goal, rather than looking to go all out to win.
Agreed, but I think we'd be mad to not want to get there.
I think we all want to see Rovers grow the fanbase long-term. I think a run of years where we are in the Championship, or even yo-yoing between the Champ and L1 would surely create some buzz and excitement around the place and complement the work going on in the community to expand the fanbase, and make us a bigger and stronger club as a whole.
This, for me, well summed up. It's got to be about building the fan base & breaking the cycle of losing local younger support to other bigger clubs
As for the finance perspective, obviously there's much more revenue to be had but wasn't it said somewhere that the owners had more shortfall to make up when we're in the Championship?
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Bournemouth dared to dream and look where they are? Traditionally a lower league club with small crowds and income .......
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Bournemouth dared to dream and look where they are? Traditionally a lower league club with small crowds and income .......
Yes, with a billionaire owner and a clear breach of FFP in doing so
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Bournemouth the very worst example. Entirely on back of the billionaire owner.
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Get us up there. 10/11k crowds back every week. More local derbies. If that bus stop in Sheffield in the form of Rotherham can manage then so can we.
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League 1 is where life is hardest for football clubs. The revenue streams just aren't there, away fans don't travel in consistently high numbers (admittedly less of an issue this weird season), off pitch revenues fall significantly.
The championship, whilst having its own issues, particularly around inequality with parachute payments, etc, is a much better league for a club like us.
My problem with the championship is that the last time we were there I found some of the teams we faced employed spoiling tactics too often which made for some boring games. Too many teams just desparate not to lose, maybe just stay tight and see if they can nick a goal, rather than looking to go all out to win.
Agreed, but I think we'd be mad to not want to get there.
I think we all want to see Rovers grow the fanbase long-term. I think a run of years where we are in the Championship, or even yo-yoing between the Champ and L1 would surely create some buzz and excitement around the place and complement the work going on in the community to expand the fanbase, and make us a bigger and stronger club as a whole.
This, for me, well summed up. It's got to be about building the fan base & breaking the cycle of losing local younger support to other bigger clubs
As for the finance perspective, obviously there's much more revenue to be had but wasn't it said somewhere that the owners had more shortfall to make up when we're in the Championship?
Good points on both accounts. Would be interesting to know the clubs plans/strategies if promotion is achieved. More income from sky and advertising obviously but more pressure on TB in particular.
The sustainability issue of the club being self sufficient is a long way away esp in covid times and harder to sustain in the championship.
Is there a risk that the owners would be more willing to sell the club in the championship. Despite my digs at them at times we do tend to know where we stand as fans etc
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Good positive responses and all wanting the same thing.....however!
EXPECTATIONS on the Manager, the Owners and the actual team will be immense,
Being in the Championship has its undoubted merits, but staying their can bring all kinds of pain, like being beaten week in week out!
at the moment I look forward to playing teams with a feeling that we are better placed to get a result, whereas if we get promoted I will see every game as a “ I hope we get something” game!
I think I would like the rovers to be a team that is always up there or thereabouts in league one........the Championship bloody frightens me!
But if we are to get to the promised land I will remain positive no matter who is having a melt down...
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Good positive responses and all wanting the same thing.....however!
EXPECTATIONS on the Manager, the Owners and the actual team will be immense,
Being in the Championship has its undoubted merits, but staying their can bring all kinds of pain, like being beaten week in week out!
at the moment I look forward to playing teams with a feeling that we are better placed to get a result, whereas if we get promoted I will see every game as a “ I hope we get something” game!
I think I would like the rovers to be a team that is always up there or thereabouts in league one........the Championship bloody frightens me!
But if we are to get to the promised land I will remain positive no matter who is having a melt down...
Didn't you enjoy being in the Championship a few years ago?
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I’ve always thought we are a third tier club with aspirations for the Championship like in 07/08 - if we do go up this season we are better placed than we were in 2013 when we disposed of Flynn then spent an age in appointing Dickov who was a disaster - this time we have Big Darren who has experience of managing in the division albeit not on a shoestring & would anticipate attracting the very best loanees possible to play for DM whereas nobody touched us previously in the Championship with Dickov because our hard won reputation for competence was shot to pieces when we jumped into bed with McKay.
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Years and years ago, I never thought I’d ever see Rovers play at Wembley, but I did and always had aspirations of seeing that. Now I have aspirations of seeing us in the Premier League, unlikely, butyou never know, we should always aspire to reach the highest level we can
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The Board and management team clearly want us to be in the Championship. A fact that may surprise some given the higher wage bills that will need to be paid to give us a chance of staying up. IMHO the Championship is where we belong.
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Its getting promoted at the right time for me whats important. My feeling was that if we got promoted last year we never had the players to stay in championship.
I was sitting behind Fej's dad at Gillingham when his son was sent off. I said to his dad that it did look like a red with the play acting the Gillingham player did but not to worry next season will be our season.
If we had gone up I think we would have ended up like Wycombe losing every week and surely relegated.
Now DM has built up a team, for virtually nothing, that has a good chance of staying up in a very tough league.
DM knows what he is doing.
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It seems to me that the EFL’s commitment is definitely tailored more to Premiership and Championship clubs. I think leagues 1 & 2 are becoming of less interest to them. I maybe a million miles away, of course, but it’s just my gut feeling.
I think if we’re to have a longer term future, then we need to be placing ourselves up there and, hopefully, staying there.
Alan,
I'm interested in hearing how the EFL can be committed to the Premiership when its nothing to do with them. If the truth is known there's a fair bit of hostility between the EPL and the EFL.
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League 1 is where life is hardest for football clubs. The revenue streams just aren't there, away fans don't travel in consistently high numbers (admittedly less of an issue this weird season), off pitch revenues fall significantly.
The championship, whilst having its own issues, particularly around inequality with parachute payments, etc, is a much better league for a club like us.
My problem with the championship is that the last time we were there I found some of the teams we faced employed spoiling tactics too often which made for some boring games. Too many teams just desparate not to lose, maybe just stay tight and see if they can nick a goal, rather than looking to go all out to win.
Agreed, but I think we'd be mad to not want to get there.
I think we all want to see Rovers grow the fanbase long-term. I think a run of years where we are in the Championship, or even yo-yoing between the Champ and L1 would surely create some buzz and excitement around the place and complement the work going on in the community to expand the fanbase, and make us a bigger and stronger club as a whole.
This, for me, well summed up. It's got to be about building the fan base & breaking the cycle of losing local younger support to other bigger clubs
As for the finance perspective, obviously there's much more revenue to be had but wasn't it said somewhere that the owners had more shortfall to make up when we're in the Championship?
It's actually less shortfall due to the increased revenues.
Staying in LG1 is harder because of the increased expenditure over and above what you'd pay out in LG2, and yet the income streams are little different.
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We appear to be ready off the pitch now. SM has said about the works that have gone on behind the scenes. This may be more important to staying up than the 11 that get us there
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League 1 is where life is hardest for football clubs. The revenue streams just aren't there, away fans don't travel in consistently high numbers (admittedly less of an issue this weird season), off pitch revenues fall significantly.
The championship, whilst having its own issues, particularly around inequality with parachute payments, etc, is a much better league for a club like us.
My problem with the championship is that the last time we were there I found some of the teams we faced employed spoiling tactics too often which made for some boring games. Too many teams just desparate not to lose, maybe just stay tight and see if they can nick a goal, rather than looking to go all out to win.
Agreed, but I think we'd be mad to not want to get there.
I think we all want to see Rovers grow the fanbase long-term. I think a run of years where we are in the Championship, or even yo-yoing between the Champ and L1 would surely create some buzz and excitement around the place and complement the work going on in the community to expand the fanbase, and make us a bigger and stronger club as a whole.
This, for me, well summed up. It's got to be about building the fan base & breaking the cycle of losing local younger support to other bigger clubs
As for the finance perspective, obviously there's much more revenue to be had but wasn't it said somewhere that the owners had more shortfall to make up when we're in the Championship?
It's actually less shortfall due to the increased revenues.
Staying in LG1 is harder because of the increased expenditure over and above what you'd pay out in LG2, and yet the income streams are little different.
Good to hear that & put that theory to bed. Can't argue that anyone at the club aren't aiming at promotion, what a time for us all.
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In terms of enjoyment of games, I honestly couldn't care less which division we are in.
What I want is the visceral heart-in-mouth feeling of games mattering. So I want us to win the key matches, when the chips are down, because of what it means at that moment, not because of where we will be the following season.
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Good positive responses and all wanting the same thing.....however!
EXPECTATIONS on the Manager, the Owners and the actual team will be immense,
Being in the Championship has its undoubted merits, but staying their can bring all kinds of pain, like being beaten week in week out!
at the moment I look forward to playing teams with a feeling that we are better placed to get a result, whereas if we get promoted I will see every game as a “ I hope we get something” game!
I think I would like the rovers to be a team that is always up there or thereabouts in league one........the Championship bloody frightens me!
But if we are to get to the promised land I will remain positive no matter who is having a melt down...
Didn't you enjoy being in the Championship a few years ago?
I enjoyed the getting there, the newness of being there and the scalps we took ...
then the reality kicked in and we just couldn’t compete financially anymore....this board turned into a place of blame......
then I went to the Desert for a few years and missed a couple of relegations,
Now I approach the game as a supporter much differently....
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I’ve always thought we are a third tier club with aspirations for the Championship like in 07/08 - if we do go up this season we are better placed than we were in 2013 when we disposed of Flynn then spent an age in appointing Dickov who was a disaster - this time we have Big Darren who has experience of managing in the division albeit not on a shoestring & would anticipate attracting the very best loanees possible to play for DM whereas nobody touched us previously in the Championship with Dickov because our hard won reputation for competence was shot to pieces when we jumped into bed with McKay.
I tend to agree, we do appear better equip to adapt to the rigours of the championship especially with a solid Loan initiative in place..
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I certainly want to see us promoted to the Championship and become established and sustainable there. I have no desire to see us in the Premier League, too far removed from the common man in its values and as others have commented, my sole desire - which ever division we are in - is to look forward to each game with eager anticipation of being competitive and at least evens we get the three points. In the Premier League that simply would not be the case.
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I think the whole club deserves promotion .Moreover we are a stronger more professional club since last time .Listening to the two SOD in depth interviews on A League of his own it reveals the strengths and weaknesses of SOD in the eyes of his players of that team .It strikes me that Darren would be much more ambitious at consolidating us as a long term recognised Championship side and he would no doubt attract loanees of an even high pedigree at that level than we could have done in the past .
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I’ve always thought we are a third tier club with aspirations for the Championship like in 07/08 - if we do go up this season we are better placed than we were in 2013 when we disposed of Flynn then spent an age in appointing Dickov who was a disaster - this time we have Big Darren who has experience of managing in the division albeit not on a shoestring & would anticipate attracting the very best loanees possible to play for DM whereas nobody touched us previously in the Championship with Dickov because our hard won reputation for competence was shot to pieces when we jumped into bed with McKay.
I tend to agree, we do appear better equip to adapt to the rigours of the championship especially with a solid Loan initiative in place..
Just my opinion but the loan initiative in the championship would be a significantly different animal to what you enjoy in league one .
The players the PL clubs allow to leave on loan to the championship are generally far more developed than the one's loaned to league one and two which is obviously understandable .
That in itself is going to be difficult for Rovers because the competition for these young talented lads is very competitive amongst championship clubs .
I dare say this could be intensified next season due to the present financial climate , when you are fighting with Cardiff , Forest or Derby for a young lad from Villa it's going to be tough to get the lad or even his parent club to agree to with all due respect .
There's also the problem of loan fees payable to PL clubs , Cardiff have paid Liverpool a kings ransom for the services of Harry Wilson this season .
Moving on from young players there's also the problem of having three or four in the squad with decent experience , as my club found out the hard way a bunch of kids in the championship get eaten alive and it's due to the recent recruitment of more experienced heads that's improved our championship position .
Finally the £8m sky tv revenue looks attractive when you get peanuts in league one but unfortunately it's absolutely no where near enough to bridge the gap in quality between league one and the Championship .
I sincerely do not wish to burst anyone's balloon on here and simply speak from following a club who have had several different strategies since 2006 in an attempt in getting a foothold at this level on a modest budget .
It's massively difficult it really is and we been promoted twice from League One in fairly recent times with good teams , very good teams and still struggled with the Championship demands .
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Going up will be the only way of keeping Darren Moore here long term. More players will want to join and play for DM to improve
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I’ve always thought we are a third tier club with aspirations for the Championship like in 07/08 - if we do go up this season we are better placed than we were in 2013 when we disposed of Flynn then spent an age in appointing Dickov who was a disaster - this time we have Big Darren who has experience of managing in the division albeit not on a shoestring & would anticipate attracting the very best loanees possible to play for DM whereas nobody touched us previously in the Championship with Dickov because our hard won reputation for competence was shot to pieces when we jumped into bed with McKay.
I tend to agree, we do appear better equip to adapt to the rigours of the championship especially with a solid Loan initiative in place..
Just my opinion but the loan initiative in the championship would be a significantly different animal to what you enjoy in league one .
The players the PL clubs allow to leave on loan to the championship are generally far more developed than the one's loaned to league one and two which is obviously understandable .
That in itself is going to be difficult for Rovers because the competition for these young talented lads is very competitive amongst championship clubs .
I dare say this could be intensified next season due to the present financial climate , when you are fighting with Cardiff , Forest or Derby for a young lad from Villa it's going to be tough to get the lad or even his parent club to agree to with all due respect .
There's also the problem of loan fees payable to PL clubs , Cardiff have paid Liverpool a kings ransom for the services of Harry Wilson this season .
Moving on from young players there's also the problem of having three or four in the squad with decent experience , as my club found out the hard way a bunch of kids in the championship get eaten alive and it's due to the recent recruitment of more experienced heads that's improved our championship position .
Finally the £8m sky tv revenue looks attractive when you get peanuts in league one but unfortunately it's absolutely no where near enough to bridge the gap in quality between league one and the Championship .
I sincerely do not wish to burst anyone's balloon on here and simply speak from following a club who have had several different strategies since 2006 in an attempt in getting a foothold at this level on a modest budget .
It's massively difficult it really is and we been promoted twice from League One in fairly recent times with good teams , very good teams and still struggled with the Championship demands .
A good post, Tyke. However, regarding the 4th paragraph, we're already competing with huge ex-Premier League clubs in the likes of Sunderland, Ipswich, Portsmouth, Hull, and Charlton; and doing it successfully.
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I’ve always thought we are a third tier club with aspirations for the Championship like in 07/08 - if we do go up this season we are better placed than we were in 2013 when we disposed of Flynn then spent an age in appointing Dickov who was a disaster - this time we have Big Darren who has experience of managing in the division albeit not on a shoestring & would anticipate attracting the very best loanees possible to play for DM whereas nobody touched us previously in the Championship with Dickov because our hard won reputation for competence was shot to pieces when we jumped into bed with McKay.
I tend to agree, we do appear better equip to adapt to the rigours of the championship especially with a solid Loan initiative in place..
Just my opinion but the loan initiative in the championship would be a significantly different animal to what you enjoy in league one .
The players the PL clubs allow to leave on loan to the championship are generally far more developed than the one's loaned to league one and two which is obviously understandable .
That in itself is going to be difficult for Rovers because the competition for these young talented lads is very competitive amongst championship clubs .
I dare say this could be intensified next season due to the present financial climate , when you are fighting with Cardiff , Forest or Derby for a young lad from Villa it's going to be tough to get the lad or even his parent club to agree to with all due respect .
There's also the problem of loan fees payable to PL clubs , Cardiff have paid Liverpool a kings ransom for the services of Harry Wilson this season .
Moving on from young players there's also the problem of having three or four in the squad with decent experience , as my club found out the hard way a bunch of kids in the championship get eaten alive and it's due to the recent recruitment of more experienced heads that's improved our championship position .
Finally the £8m sky tv revenue looks attractive when you get peanuts in league one but unfortunately it's absolutely no where near enough to bridge the gap in quality between league one and the Championship .
I sincerely do not wish to burst anyone's balloon on here and simply speak from following a club who have had several different strategies since 2006 in an attempt in getting a foothold at this level on a modest budget .
It's massively difficult it really is and we been promoted twice from League One in fairly recent times with good teams , very good teams and still struggled with the Championship demands .
A good post, Tyke. However, regarding the 4th paragraph, we're already competing with huge ex-Premier League clubs in the likes of Sunderland, Ipswich, Portsmouth, Hull, and Charlton; and doing it successfully.
Steve , there's probably a very good number of young lads at PL clubs who can be effective in league one so rather than compete it's more a case of there's enough to go round with all due respect , it's then just a case of having the right infrastructure and environment for them to be successful , none of the bigger clubs in league one you've listed tick many boxes , they probably wouldn't be in league one if they did .
In the championship that number drops significantly and so the competition to sign the cream intensifies considerably .
All I'm basically saying is that the model your club deploys in league one with loans maybe very difficult to replicate in the championship and will possibly also be compounded by the pandemic .
Rotherham are possibly your best comparison because my club doesn't do loans at all .
I'm struggling to think of one loan Rotherham have brought in that stands out when they are in the championship .
Their latest one was young George Hirst from Leicester who is way way off the championship pace .
It's incredibly difficult Steve to bridge the quality gap using loans when fresh up from league one when you are with all due respect a smaller club .
When it's your core strategy its probably even more difficult .
I'm not saying it can't be done because football surprises us all and always will do .
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Swansea make good use of loans in the Championship, their approach is similar to ours just a big leap up in quality. Agree we'll be priced out the market for plenty of the most sought after ones but we had Jacob Ramsey last season, who is clearly championship quality, and this season we've got Sims, who again is easily championship quality. Having lots of loanees isn't my favourite approach but the fact we've got players of that quality in while in league 1 means we should be able to keep it up
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Swansea make good use of loans in the Championship, their approach is similar to ours just a big leap up in quality. Agree we'll be priced out the market for plenty of the most sought after ones but we had Jacob Ramsey last season, who is clearly championship quality, and this season we've got Sims, who again is easily championship quality. Having lots of loanees isn't my favourite approach but the fact we've got players of that quality in while in league 1 means we should be able to keep it up
The question of why Swansea attract high quality loans is more the point , it's because they have a history of recent PL football and can pay the loan fees attached to securing Brewster as they did last season .
The brand in the championship goes a long way , the really big PL like to loan lads out to the big championship clubs , it's just the way it is it seems .
In my time when we did loans and in the championship we did very well with a young Kieran Trippier and Danny Drinkwater and that's about it to be honest who you could say made a significant contribution and kept us in the championship .
We've had a young Chris Wood and Jay Rodriguez who were total shyte , we sent Chris Wood back to Leicester before his time came to an end .
The very best loans were always in league one , Ashley Fletcher , Josh Brownhill , Ben Pearson and Kevin Long .
Which kind of emphasises my point .
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I don't see us having a problem attracting good loanees with Darren Moore as manager, he has an excellent reputation for developing young players and both he and the club have fostered relationships with clubs through previous loanees who have thrived. Look at Aston Villa with Jacob Ramsey as one example, or Arsenal sending us John-Jules after Ben Sheaf thrived last season.
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I was pleased we didn't get promoted last season, and the season before. We didn't have the quality as a basis for promotion. For a club like us, what will count is the team spirit, the sum of the whole being greater than the sum of the parts, and I think this season we have enough quality to take us to that place and hold on for at east that one crucial bedding in season.
Promotion without all this becomes futile and I believe does nothing for us long term - more like a y-yo club than a YO-yo club.
As for the loan issue Tyke very clearly raises, yes it will be a whole new ball game except with the overall ethos of the club and especially with Darren Moore we have the kind of quality that has proven to benefit players. It won't be easy but I think the situation for us is a step above how Tyke paints it.
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Who knows what their personal intentions are, but if we did go up this season, I think we might have a decent crack at signing Sims and Smith, less so Balcombe, Richards and J-J.
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I always want to see my team promoted. Good, bad or ugly. I don’t care. We are doing well at the moment and I am enjoying it, albeit from a distance.
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I think we are better positioned than ever for life in the second tier. We have the infrastructure and the management.
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In terms of enjoyment of games, I honestly couldn't care less which division we are in.
What I want is the visceral heart-in-mouth feeling of games mattering. So I want us to win the key matches, when the chips are down, because of what it means at that moment, not because of where we will be the following season.
Hear hear Billy! I loved the Conference just as much as any other division. More actually cos you can stand up and walk round the ground at half time in the conference.
BobG
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I was pleased we didn't get promoted last season, and the season before. We didn't have the quality as a basis for promotion. For a club like us, what will count is the team spirit, the sum of the whole being greater than the sum of the parts, and I think this season we have enough quality to take us to that place and hold on for at east that one crucial bedding in season.
Promotion without all this becomes futile and I believe does nothing for us long term - more like a y-yo club than a YO-yo club.
As for the loan issue Tyke very clearly raises, yes it will be a whole new ball game except with the overall ethos of the club and especially with Darren Moore we have the kind of quality that has proven to benefit players. It won't be easy but I think the situation for us is a step above how Tyke paints it.
I sincerely don't want to be the bogey man on here and I've absolutely no axe to grind with Rovers what's so ever .
However Big Daz isn't the only one with connections , almost 70% of next seasons championship line up will be in the loan market .
At this moment in history there's absolutely nothing wrong with how Rovers have gone about things this season , my point is and I'm not the author of this thread by the way is how difficult it is to replicate the current model in to championship survival .
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If we do go up, I wonder what the odds are on Darren Moore still being at Rovers 12 months later?
Cheers
BobG
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The question is only coning up on some of the Rovers Facebook groups.
To be fair, it's kids asking it who haven't got a clue how football is or works. Back to FIFA and Footy Manager.
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I was pleased we didn't get promoted last season, and the season before. We didn't have the quality as a basis for promotion. For a club like us, what will count is the team spirit, the sum of the whole being greater than the sum of the parts, and I think this season we have enough quality to take us to that place and hold on for at east that one crucial bedding in season.
Promotion without all this becomes futile and I believe does nothing for us long term - more like a y-yo club than a YO-yo club.
As for the loan issue Tyke very clearly raises, yes it will be a whole new ball game except with the overall ethos of the club and especially with Darren Moore we have the kind of quality that has proven to benefit players. It won't be easy but I think the situation for us is a step above how Tyke paints it.
I sincerely don't want to be the bogey man on here and I've absolutely no axe to grind with Rovers what's so ever .
However Big Daz isn't the only one with connections , almost 70% of next seasons championship line up will be in the loan market .
At this moment in history there's absolutely nothing wrong with how Rovers have gone about things this season , my point is and I'm not the author of this thread by the way is how difficult it is to replicate the current model in to championship survival .
Don't get me wrong, I think your points are really inciteful and important, if not the bottom line for us. I can't see us getting by without good loans. I don't think it's just the connections of DM that count, it's his man management and the development that offers, not just the match experience for loanees. Maybe it would boil down to the club being able to offer more that way that's appealing to prem clubs than just cash and overall team ability, much as that does inevitably count. We'll see, and meanwhile there's the basic matter of getting there!
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You make very valid points Tyke, but you are tending to overlook the importance of what we have here and that is a manager with a proven track record, who is highly thought of, even at the highest level. I know there’s the financial aspect to all of this and we probably can’t compete with the majority of sides in the Championship, but what price do you put on the right sort of development for good, up and coming, young players?
In reality, we may even tailor our loan ethos to suit the Championship demands for increased costs, who knows. We already have a good, solid core of players who can make the step up, I’m sure. Increasingly, there are good quality players who have drifted off club’s radars, for whatever reason, and find themselves out of work. We seem o have done quite well on that score very recently and that could well be employed again.
There are many different avenues to explore, some of which we’re certainly not privy to, but, again, we have a recruitment guy who is second to none, so we’ll see.
All the above is of no consequence, of course, if we don’t achieve promotion.
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Blackpool were promoted from the Championship to the EPL with a team of loanees, so it can be done.
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Should we maybe be comparing ourselves to Brentford and aim to do what they've done?
Similar sized club/fan base to ours historically, currently sitting 5th in the Championship?
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You make very valid points Tyke, but you are tending to overlook the importance of what we have here and that is a manager with a proven track record, who is highly thought of, even at the highest level. I know there’s the financial aspect to all of this and we probably can’t compete with the majority of sides in the Championship, but what price do you put on the right sort of development for good, up and coming, young players?
In reality, we may even tailor our loan ethos to suit the Championship demands for increased costs, who knows. We already have a good, solid core of players who can make the step up, I’m sure. Increasingly, there are good quality players who have drifted off club’s radars, for whatever reason, and find themselves out of work. We seem o have done quite well on that score very recently and that could well be employed again.
There are many different avenues to explore, some of which we’re certainly not privy to, but, again, we have a recruitment guy who is second to none, so we’ll see.
All the above is of no consequence, of course, if we don’t achieve promotion.
Alan I do feel the addition of three experienced players would massively help the young player model and the transition from league one to the Championship .
I'm not talking about world beaters here but good , experienced pro's who have enough ability to play at championship level .
They don't necessarily have to be from this country either , the signing of 29 years old Michael Sollbauer from Wolfsberger last January was instrumental in keeping us up and tightening us up at the back , huge influence on this young group is Michael and he didn't cost a fortunate by any means .
It can be done , there's no doubt about it but the Championship is also a very unforgiving league especially for young players still learning their trade and mistakes are severely punished , mistakes that don't get punished quite so much in league one .
Get the balance right even working with a modest budget and you've a chance .
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Should we maybe be comparing ourselves to Brentford and aim to do what they've done?
Similar sized club/fan base to ours historically, currently sitting 5th in the Championship?
Well that's how I see things over here too , Brentford are definitely a club to aspire to be .
However its also worth pointing out they have sold every decent player they've had to create the revenue to be able to recruit very well and replace them .
It's taken time to get to the level they are at today and that's with possibly the best recruitment team in English football , Ollie Watkins bought from Exeter for £1.5m and sold for £30m is possibly the pick of the bunch .
If Rovers and Barnsley could be 70% of Brentford we'd we doing alright ..... to say the least .
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Brentford are another team also with a rich owner, just not one who always makes it known and obvious.
Their approach to the footballing side of things is impeccable though and it's only a matter of time before they're in the Premier League.