Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Off Topic => Topic started by: Colemans Left Hook on July 09, 2022, 11:41:23 pm
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Sunak has released a slick video pushing his claim to be next PM.
It also promotes his 'Ready for Rishi' website. The domain name for 'Ready for Rishi' was purchased in Dec2021, a few days after the pics of the Garden Party in Downing St were leaked.
Coincidence?
thanks to mugnapper for the initial post - but this topic deserves its own thread
just how long has "Sun -Pat" been "raisin" his hope of becoming PM ?
Just who leaked those photo's ? surely it isn't really that taxing to work out
and as for the phrase " non dom" it suddenly becomes "non domain"
"Just how long HAS Rishi been plotting to take No 10? Ex-Chancellor registered his leadership website domain name in December - four days after Boris Johnson's wine and cheese Partygate photo was published
Records on DomainTools show that his website – readyforrishi.com – was registered on December 23, 2021
This domain now automatically redirects to his current website - ready4rishi.com - which was set up on July 6
Comes as ex-Chancellor officially declared his bid to replace Boris Johnson with promise to 'restore trust'
Tory hopefuls are gearing up for a battle to replace PM after he announced his departure yesterday
More than a dozen MPs preparing to launch bids to be the next PM amid fears that the contest will turn nasty
Leadership hopeful Liz Truss will pitch herself as the female Boris Johnson in the leadership race, allies say"
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10996281/How-long-Rishi-plotting-Ex-Chancellor-registered-campaign-website-domain-December.html
the Norwegian domain name
https://www.ready4rishi.no appears to have been taken
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Ever since he lost his part in Deputy Dawg !
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Does it say in the Daily Heil that they took at story from Robert Peston who discovered it on Friday?
https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1545475319464869890
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If it wasn't for the yellow press johnson would have been long gone or maybe not offered the role
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His campaign isn't THAT polished though.
When you release a hostage statement, you're supposed to put a paper with today's date under their chin. As it is, how do we know that this, clearly terrified, MP is safe?
https://mobile.twitter.com/PaulMaynardUK/status/1545451325651025921
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Is it just me, or does Sunak look like Norman Wisdom?
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Speaking of people's well-being, I do hope Selby is OK.
I'd have thought he'd be all over this betrayal. Stabber Sunak and all that. I can only assume he's not well.
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Is it just me, or does Sunak look like Norman Wisdom?
i see what you mean
in that Norman Wisdom's pet phrase was "swinging , dodgy"
since Sunpack "social distances from his wife" he could be" alleged" to have "the opportunity" for the former and he certainly is the latter
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What's clear is that there's no unifying candidate to replace Johnson .
Something I suspect is the main reason Johnson survived as long as he did as PM .
The Conservative Party are in deep trouble , to prosper the Conservative Party have to create enemies only this time the only enemies are each other .
I'll give Keith some credit he's managed to lead the opposition without offering up anything the Tories can make stick and allow them to paint the picture of " an enemy of the state " .
He's managed to offer up absolutely nothing to support him either in my opinion but inadvertently perhaps he's taken the wind so much out of the government they've absolutely nothing to regroup behind .
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What's clear is that there's no unifying candidate to replace Johnson .
Something I suspect is the main reason Johnson survived as long as he did as PM .
The Conservative Party are in deep trouble , to prosper the Conservative Party have to create enemies only this time the only enemies are each other .
I'll give Keith some credit he's managed to lead the opposition without offering up anything the Tories can make stick and allow them to paint the picture of " an enemy of the state " .
He's managed to offer up absolutely nothing to support him either in my opinion but inadvertently perhaps he's taken the wind so much out of the government they've absolutely nothing to regroup behind .
This may look like an inspired tactic by Keith but what happens when the election campaign starts in earnest, this guy, the leader of the opposition has managed to duck under the radar so long he almost disappeared, it would not surprise me in the least to think that all the hoorah in Durham was not a carefully planned and scripted episode to get this faceless man into the public domain and generate some publicity for this grey leader.
This is the Labour party, they have been handed a once in a lifetime opportunity to really stick it to the Tories and make a very strong case for anything that is not Tory to run away with the next GE, instead what do we have, Keith too scared to announce any sort of policies, ideas or opinions on anything in case it attracts attention that he can't bat away. We've just had the worst possible leadership demonstrated in what could turn out to be the worst times for this country since the general strike of 1926 and he's still hiding under the coattails of the ginger manc.
What do we have to do in this country to get some decent and representative government?
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conspiracy theories to boot aye
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Still reckon you're politically neutral DD?
Tyke.
Sounds like you are slowly starting to get the plan.
Easy to forget now, but just three years ago, Corbyn had taken Labour to its lowest polling share in a century and a vote share of 13% in an actual national election. He'd lost something like 5 million supporters to the Greens and LDs in the space of 4 months.
It's astonishing how that is simply airbrushed out of recent left wing history, but it's a fact.
Starmer forcing through a Ref2 policy in summer 2019 (with help from McDonnell by the way, who was tearing his hair out at Corbyn's full on embracing of Brexit) was essential to save Labour from annihilation in the 2019 General Election. I get that you don't agree because that lost YOUR support. But the point is that for every one of you, the were 4-5 other Labour supporters who were actually rejecting or considering rejecting the party because of Corbyn's position. Ref2 policy was essential to prevent a full on implosion of the Labour vote. Yes, they might have got you and Branton to vote for them in 2019 with a Brexit policy. But they'd have been lucky to get 20% of the national vote and 100 seats.
You may disagree, but before you do, go and look at the 2019 opinion polls.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/07/Uk2022polling15average.png/800px-Uk2022polling15average.png)
Look at that graph. Remember that Corbyn embraced full on Brexit in Jan 2019. And look at how Labour's share collapsed and the LDs rose. Then from Jun 2019, Corbyn was put back in his box. And in Sept 2019, Lab Conference adopted Ref2 as policy.
Look at the graph. Think what would have happened without that change of policy.
If you are going to understand Starmer's work over the past 2 years, you've got to start from that understanding.
The Starmer project has 4 stages.
1) Saving Labour from suicide in 2019.
2) From 2020, distancing himself from Corbyn and "de-toxifying" the party in the eyes of people who should be potential Labour supporters but who rejected it because of Corbyn.
3) Turning fire on the Tories and hopefully fatally wounding them.
Thats brought us to today.
Stage 4, from this autumn, will be the rolling out of policies.
You just need to step back and see the big picture.
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Had
Speaking of people's well-being, I do hope Selby is OK.
I'd have thought he'd be all over this betrayal. Stabber Sunak and all that. I can only assume he's not well.
Had Sunak insisted that Johnson take up a policy that led to his, and the party's downfall and then replaced him as leader and backtracked on those policies, Sunak could be called a stabber. As it stands, he's no more a stabber than Gary McSheffrey was to Richie Wellens.
Stabber Starmer, on the other hand..........
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Is it just me, or does Sunak look like Norman Wisdom?
i see what you mean
in that Norman Wisdom's pet phrase was "swinging , dodgy"
since Sunpack "social distances from his wife" he could be" alleged" to have "the opportunity" for the former and he certainly is the latter
That'll be Norman Vaughan then
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BB.
No, Sunak only resigned stating that he was doing so to force his boss out.
Whereas Starmer saved Corbyn's party from an electoral annihilation in late 2019.
I know you struggle with logic when you get in this mood, so let me spell it out in condescendingly simple terms.
Labour got hammered in 2019.
Labour had Starmer's Ref2 policy.
That doesn't mean Labour got hammered BECAUSE OF the Ref2 policy.
Nor does it mean that they would have done better without that policy.
Nor does it mean, right...stick with me...nearly there...that Starmer was trying to do Corbyn in via that policy.
Sunak, on the other hand, overtly and deliberately resigned in a way that was calculated to finish off Johnson.
Got it?
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Meanwhile.
Remember all those Tories who said Labour spending plans were unaffordable because there's no magic money tree? Those who said that unless we balance the books, the country would go bankrupt?
They're going to go mad when they see these PM candidates saying they'll cut taxes by upwards of £100m and not explain how they will pay for it.
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There’s going to be back stabbing onna scale never seen before in this leadership contest, everyone of them is tarred with the Johnson brush except Tom Tugenant
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BB.
No, Sunak only resigned stating that he was doing so to force his boss out.
Whereas Starmer saved Corbyn's party from an electoral annihilation in late 2019.
I know you struggle with logic when you get in this mood, so let me spell it out in condescendingly simple terms.
Labour got hammered in 2019.
Labour had Starmer's Ref2 policy.
That doesn't mean Labour got hammered BECAUSE OF the Ref2 policy.
Nor does it mean that they would have done better without that policy.
Nor does it mean, right...stick with me...nearly there...that Starmer was trying to do Corbyn in via that policy.
Sunak, on the other hand, overtly and deliberately resigned in a way that was calculated to finish off Johnson.
Got it?
BB.
No, Sunak only resigned stating that he was doing so to force his boss out.
Whereas Starmer saved Corbyn's party from an electoral annihilation in late 2019.
I know you struggle with logic when you get in this mood, so let me spell it out in condescendingly simple terms.
Labour got hammered in 2019.
Labour had Starmer's Ref2 policy.
That doesn't mean Labour got hammered BECAUSE OF the Ref2 policy.
Nor does it mean that they would have done better without that policy.
Nor does it mean, right...stick with me...nearly there...that Starmer was trying to do Corbyn in via that policy.
Sunak, on the other hand, overtly and deliberately resigned in a way that was calculated to finish off Johnson.
Got it?
Yes, I've got it BST. Always have. What you've yet to get, though, is that kidding yourself is a lot easier than kidding me.
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Had Speaking of people's well-being, I do hope Selby is OK.
I'd have thought he'd be all over this betrayal. Stabber Sunak and all that. I can only assume he's not well.
Had Sunak insisted that Johnson take up a policy that led to his, and the party's downfall and then replaced him as leader and backtracked on those policies, Sunak could be called a stabber. As it stands, he's no more a stabber than Gary McSheffrey was to Richie Wellens.
Stabber Starmer, on the other hand..........
Hmmm. Interesting now to look both at the details of this article - but also the date of it - they day before he registered the website CLH mentions in the OP:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/dec/22/brazen-treachery-rishi-sunak-sabotaging-boris-johnson-policies
Hmmm...
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I see that bst has soon forgotten the furlough scheme that Sunak introduced that helped him negotiate his business through the covid epidemic.
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I see that bst has soon forgotten the furlough scheme that Sunak introduced that helped him negotiate his business through the covid epidemic.
i have evidence he is a closet conservative either that or an "infiltrator" into the party
the question is what was BST doing there ???
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You want his number CLH? I was talking to him yesterday.
by combining "your definition of him" and "my definition of you" we have "common ground"
could say "one kitson talking to another kitson" :suicide:
lest we forget hesaid he was speaking (well maybe listening) to him last week at a Conservative doo
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Aha, maybe Labour do send spies into Conservative territory.
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You want his number CLH? I was talking to him yesterday.
by combining "your definition of him" and "my definition of you" we have "common ground"
could say "one kitson talking to another kitson" :suicide:
lest we forget hesaid he was speaking (well maybe listening) to him last week at a Conservative doo
Troll.
I was talking to my Russian friend.
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Is it just me, or does Sunak look like Norman Wisdom?
i see what you mean
in that Norman Wisdom's pet phrase was "swinging , dodgy"
since Sunpack "social distances from his wife" he could be" alleged" to have "the opportunity" for the former and he certainly is the latter
That'll be Norman Vaughan then
Right on, Raven. All us old'ns know that Norman Wisdom's usual line was "Mr Grimsdale".
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Interesting to hear Javid say that the final 2, himself included if he made it, should declare their tax details. He then went on to declare when he worked abroad he paid tax abroad but since entering politics he has paid tax in the UK Very pointedly he refused to comment on other candidates position ie Sunak, Zahawi that is for them to decide mmmm!
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Interesting to hear Javid say that the final 2, himself included if he made it, should declare their tax details. He then went on to declare when he worked abroad he paid tax abroad but since entering politics he has paid tax in the UK Very pointedly he refused to comment on other candidates position ie Sunak, Zahawi that is for them to decide mmmm!
Raven, as I said yesterday:
“I have realised what a shitty job it must be to do and that everyone, including political supporters of all persuasions, put their spin onto anything that they can to sway things their way.”
#allthesame.
I am not surprised that he didn’t want to talk about Sunak.
Very dignified in my opinion.
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Apparently Penny Mordaunt has released a slick video that is gaining a lot of plaudits.
Apparently Penny Mordaunt is having to go back and edit the slick video as she didn't know you had to have permission to use other people's copyrighted material or images of them in anything you publish.
Apparently Penny Mordaunt wants to run the country.
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Get Ready For Rishi
My father in law is a billionaire founder of a gigantic Indian tech firm who outsourced all your kids jobs to India .
I've got a US Green Card so as to edge my bets and do one over the Atlantic at any time .
My wife is not British and doesn't pay UK taxes .
You might also remember I was fined along with Johnson for breaking Covid rules .
I've literally wasted billions of pounds of your money on a track and trace system that didn't work .
I spent £4.9bn on an eat to help out programme that caused a huge spike in covid infections and so prolonged the furlough scheme and allowed even more billions of pounds to be fraudulently claimed .
I've increased taxation in this country to its highest level since 1947 .
I remained loyal to the previous PM right to nearly the very end when I could no longer support him any more although I registered the domain " Get Ready For Rishi " last December .
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how do you get that message through to those that think they are all the same?
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how do you get that message through to those that think they are all the same?
By Keith coming out and telling us what he intends to do about everything, and why we should vote for him.
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how do you get that message through to those that think they are all the same?
A credible opposition would be a start .
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tyke and steve, you don't support him I suggest you live with it.
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How could anybody vote for a bloke that stabbed the last man in the back ,no dignity at all , could never take a job on if I did that , But as Lennon sang about , their is room at the top they are telling you still but first you learn how to smile as you kill.
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tyke and steve, you don't support him I suggest you live with it.
I don't support him because he's offered me nothing to support as yet .
The 12 point lead in the polls is actually embarrassing given the present circumstances surrounding the present government .
And another thing where is Keith ?
Any leader with half a brain would be all over the media sticking it to the Tories and making the case for Labour .
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well stop the moaning then, stop complaining about what you're not willing to change.
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Tyke
Did you read this?
https://www.drfc-vsc.co.uk/index.php?topic=285356.msg1170384#msg1170384
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well stop the moaning then, stop complaining about what you're not willing to change.
The only one moaning and complaining is you; and you don't even live here.
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how do you get that message through to those that think they are all the same?
By Keith coming out and telling us what he intends to do about everything, and why we should vote for him.
Steve, remember that brexit thingy? you know that one that was going to change the way you live, well it did. Remember the bit about 'we have all the cards' ................... unfortunately those you appointed put those same cards face up on the table before the game started.
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Some of you had better hope Kemi Badenoch doesn't win the Tory leadership race .
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how do you get that message through to those that think they are all the same?
It seems that they are though, going by the way each and every one of the potential PMs are being pulled apart by people on here.
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Spot the difference.
https://mobile.twitter.com/PennyMordaunt/status/1546049184373121024?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1546049184373121024%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Freaction.life%2Fpenny-mordaunt-video-based-on-the-day-today-symphony-of-flags-patriotic-spoof%2F
https://youtu.be/7Fjv5JJbjvw
God help us. She's second favourite.
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And so it continues.
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I see they're saying that Tory leadership candidates will need at least 20 letters of support from MPa to get on the ballot.
That's a problem for Grant Shapps as he only has 7 at the moment.
Fortunately his mate Michael Green has a plan. If each of those 7 gets two others to join the project...
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The least the media could do would be to hammer the candidates to say what they will do about the NI protocol
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A job for a Guardian correspondent then.
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This leadership election shoes how utterly barren the Right is in politico-economic ideas.
There is one over-arching screaming issue that we have to address s a country. Our productivity has fallen off a cliff these past 12-15 years.
As the Nobel Prize winning economist Paul Krugman said "Productivity isn't everything. But in the long run, it's nearly everything."
If we don't produce more per hour wormed, we don't get better off. It's that simple. There's no getting round it.
But there's not a word on that from any of the candidates. Just a set of parrots squawking "I'm for tax cuts and sending illegals to Rwanda."
There used to be strongly intellectual foundations to Conservativism. Now it's just a bunch of Z-list chancers. Like the worst ever cohort on The Apprentice.
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This leadership election shoes how utterly barren the Right is in politico-economic ideas.
There is one over-arching screaming issue that we have to address s a country. Our productivity has fallen off a cliff these past 12-15 years.
As the Nobel Prize winning economist Paul Krugman said "Productivity isn't everything. But in the long run, it's nearly everything."
If we don't produce more per hour wormed, we don't get better off. It's that simple. There's no getting round it.
But there's not a word on that from any of the candidates. Just a set of parrots squawking "I'm for tax cuts and sending illegals to Rwanda."
There used to be strongly intellectual foundations to Conservativism. Now it's just a bunch of Z-list chancers. Like the worst ever cohort on The Apprentice.
So they are all the same then.
(Including the wormed ones).
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This leadership election shoes how utterly barren the Right is in politico-economic ideas.
There is one over-arching screaming issue that we have to address s a country. Our productivity has fallen off a cliff these past 12-15 years.
As the Nobel Prize winning economist Paul Krugman said "Productivity isn't everything. But in the long run, it's nearly everything."
If we don't produce more per hour wormed, we don't get better off. It's that simple. There's no getting round it.
But there's not a word on that from any of the candidates. Just a set of parrots squawking "I'm for tax cuts and sending illegals to Rwanda."
There used to be strongly intellectual foundations to Conservativism. Now it's just a bunch of Z-list chancers. Like the worst ever cohort on The Apprentice.
Difficult in 'normal' times but infinitely harder when you've trashed the economy and walked (run) away from the richest bloc in the world.
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When it’s down to the final 2 candidates they should be put in thunder dome from mad max 3
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This leadership election shoes how utterly barren the Right is in politico-economic ideas.
There is one over-arching screaming issue that we have to address s a country. Our productivity has fallen off a cliff these past 12-15 years.
As the Nobel Prize winning economist Paul Krugman said "Productivity isn't everything. But in the long run, it's nearly everything."
If we don't produce more per hour wormed, we don't get better off. It's that simple. There's no getting round it.
But there's not a word on that from any of the candidates. Just a set of parrots squawking "I'm for tax cuts and sending illegals to Rwanda."
There used to be strongly intellectual foundations to Conservativism. Now it's just a bunch of Z-list chancers. Like the worst ever cohort on The Apprentice.
Difficult in 'normal' times but infinitely harder when you've trashed the economy and walked (run) away from the richest bloc in the world.
Ironic.
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Who in God's name is Rehman Chisti?
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Meanwhile this is a touching story
https://mobile.twitter.com/benrileysmith/status/1546414102565818368
Wait till you get to the final chapter, when he decides that anyone who tries to repeat his father's amazing escape to freedom should be sent to Rwanda.
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May explain where his £20million offshore family trust, currently being investigated by HMRC, came from.
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That's the answer then Billy, it's true anyone under 60 years old are bloody useless and our older generations were brilliant, and harder working.
I couldn't have guessed.
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BBC News - Jamie Wallis: MP found guilty of driving offences
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-62118964
Has this fine upstanding Tory MP announced his intention to stand yet?
And of course, he fled the scene because he was worried about being attacked whilst dressed in high heels, and a mini skirt.
Not because he was pissed obviously.
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BBC News - Jamie Wallis: MP found guilty of driving offences
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-62118964
Has this fine upstanding Tory MP announced his intention to stand yet?
And of course, he fled the scene because he was worried about being attacked whilst dressed in high heels, and a mini skirt.
Not because he was pissed obviously.
he hasn't "addressed" the matter of whether he should "stand" or not .... you could say he's skirting around making a decision
meanwhile "Agent India" is getting rumbled
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Gotta love these tories and their fans, they've made cronyism a virtue, criminality almost a must, wrecked the economy, although it has taken them 12 years to really f**k it up and if you listen to them tax will no longer be required.
busadvertising
you must be dreaming
vote tory
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To be fair some of you could put Boris Johnson in a labour rosette and you'd support him. There's not much it any substance from any of the candidates yet, I'm sure that will come.
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To be fair some of you could put Boris Johnson in a labour rosette and you'd support him. There's not much it any substance from any of the candidates yet, I'm sure that will come.
More of this nonsense.
There's never, ever been a person in any other party who has lied like Johnson.
You have no grounds whatsoever for saying that, because Johnson's lies were ignored by this Tory party, they'd be ignored by other parties.
You are assuming, with no evidence that the Labour party is as morally bankrupt as this Tory party. It's this normalisation. Of previously unacceptable stances that I've been banging on about for years. 10 years ago you'd have thought it unbelievable that ANY party would embrace a liar like Johnson. Now it's just blithely asserted that any party would.
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So, declaring a manifesto to tempt the more right-minded voters with no real intention of carrying them out isn't lying?
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So, declaring a manifesto to tempt the more right-minded voters with no real intention of carrying them out isn't lying?
You're on a hiding to nothing talking about promises not kept bb sometimes it's better to let people think you're a fool .......
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So, declaring a manifesto to tempt the more right-minded voters with no real intention of carrying them out isn't lying?
What in the name of God are you wittering on about?
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Rees Mogg and Dorries on tv backing Liz Truss.
With 2 such likeable heavyweights behind her, Liz must be a shoo-in!
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So, declaring a manifesto to tempt the more right-minded voters with no real intention of carrying them out isn't lying?
What in the name of God are you wittering on about?
Let me try to simplify it for you. I said it before and I'll say it again. I wouldn't vote Labour because I don't trust them. I believe once they were in power the left of the party could take over and change the manifesto that voted the party in. They would never get in power with left-wing intentions so could gain the more moderate voters by deceit with a more right-wing approach.
That, to me is tantamount to the lies you accuse the Tories of.
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So, declaring a manifesto to tempt the more right-minded voters with no real intention of carrying them out isn't lying?
What in the name of God are you wittering on about?
Let me try to simplify it for you. I said it before and I'll say it again. I wouldn't vote Labour because I don't trust them. I believe once they were in power the left of the party could take over and change the manifesto that voted the party in. They would never get in power with left-wing intentions so could gain the more moderate voters by deceit with a more right-wing approach.
That, to me is tantamount to the lies you accuse the Tories of.
who knows?
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busadvertising
''Let me try to simplify it for you. I said it before and I'll say it again. I wouldn't vote Labour because I don't trust them. I believe once they were in power the left of the party could take over and change the manifesto that voted the party in. They would never get in power with left-wing intentions so could gain the more moderate voters by deceit with a more right-wing approach.
That, to me is tantamount to the lies you accuse the Tories of''
so busy trying to work this out the polling station closed
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Shapps comes to his senses and realises noone would want another spiv but sunak is happy to have support from a liar and fraudster.
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So, declaring a manifesto to tempt the more right-minded voters with no real intention of carrying them out isn't lying?
What in the name of God are you wittering on about?
Let me try to simplify it for you. I said it before and I'll say it again. I wouldn't vote Labour because I don't trust them. I believe once they were in power the left of the party could take over and change the manifesto that voted the party in. They would never get in power with left-wing intentions so could gain the more moderate voters by deceit with a more right-wing approach.
That, to me is tantamount to the lies you accuse the Tories of.
So let's get this straight.
We've just had a PM who lied as easily as he breathed. You never condemned him and said he shouldn't resign.
Now, to justify you bothsides approach, you suggest a hypothetical future situation, the like of which has never before happened, and for which there isn't a shred of evidence (ask Albie!) to claim that Labour is just as bad.
Do you reckon you've really thought this through?
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Shapps comes to his senses and realises noone would want another spiv but sunak is happy to have support from a liar and fraudster.
He was quite happy to work for one for the past couple of years.
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You should read the tosh from Badenough
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Shapps has denied any involvement with the “Indian Premier Cricket League”
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I see Sunak has today called for us to have more honesty about economics.
Grand.
Maybe he can start the process by apologising for saying this pile of gold plated lying b*llocks about Govt having to pay back debt.
https://mobile.twitter.com/RishiSunak/status/1321802739320500224
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I agree with BB in that there should be more truth and honesty from politicians.
And as the Tories are supposed to be seizing the opportunties of Brexit as per their manifesto for the last GE, I think Rees-Mogg is probably correct when he says only a 'true Brexiteer' like Liz Truss can be their next leader
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So, declaring a manifesto to tempt the more right-minded voters with no real intention of carrying them out isn't lying?
What in the name of God are you wittering on about?
Let me try to simplify it for you. I said it before and I'll say it again. I wouldn't vote Labour because I don't trust them. I believe once they were in power the left of the party could take over and change the manifesto that voted the party in. They would never get in power with left-wing intentions so could gain the more moderate voters by deceit with a more right-wing approach.
That, to me is tantamount to the lies you accuse the Tories of.
So let's get this straight.
We've just had a PM who lied as easily as he breathed. You never condemned him and said he shouldn't resign.
Now, to justify you bothsides approach, you suggest a hypothetical future situation, the like of which has never before happened, and for which there isn't a shred of evidence (ask Albie!) to claim that Labour is just as bad.
Do you reckon you've really thought this through?
Are you suggesting I should condemn all parties for their lies, and like you, not be politically selective? Like I've said countless times, my responses to you are mostly drawn by your outrageously one-sided, biased imbalance. I reply to them in an attempt to reduce that imbalance.
Your constant search for accusations of Tory lies, and complete rejection of any Labour party lie stands out like Errol Flynn's cock in a brothel.
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I wonder why pritstick hasn't run, is it because she couldn't bully 20 MPs to support her?
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So BB, I guess your line now is:
BST points out unarguable cases where Tory politicians have flagrantly lied on issues of objective Truth. I can't find any examples of Labour politicians doing that, so I'm going to blame BST for being biassed, and assume that Labour WILL do that in some hypothetical future.
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Your claim that Labour MP's don't lie, they just make mistakes, while on the other hand, every Tory mistake is a lie sum you up perfectly.
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BB.
Stop making this personal. Find an example of a Labour politician deliberately lying on an issue of objective Truth and not correcting the record at the first opportunity and I'll agree with you.
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Just a minute, why should correcting a lie make it not a lie? All that is doing is admitting you lied. I take it you're referring to Starmer's porky about the EU vaccine? He didn't correct his lie (or mistake as you'd call it!) at the first opportunity. He only apologised when he realised he was in a corner and couldn't escape and was forced to.
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Bb that’s been the line all along, if it’s a Labour politician it’s a mistake made in good faith
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BB.
Stop making this personal. Find an example of a Labour politician deliberately lying on an issue of objective Truth and not correcting the record at the first opportunity and I'll agree with you.
At the risk of getting between BST and BB like a boxing ref, the idea that Labour do not lie is just laughable.
Have a look at Starmer as an example;
https://twitter.com/OrdinaryLeft
Watch the video at the top.
Zero integrity.
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To be fair some of you could put Boris Johnson in a labour rosette and you'd support him. There's not much it any substance from any of the candidates yet, I'm sure that will come.
More of this nonsense.
There's never, ever been a person in any other party who has lied like Johnson.
You have no grounds whatsoever for saying that, because Johnson's lies were ignored by this Tory party, they'd be ignored by other parties.
You are assuming, with no evidence that the Labour party is as morally bankrupt as this Tory party. It's this normalisation. Of previously unacceptable stances that I've been banging on about for years. 10 years ago you'd have thought it unbelievable that ANY party would embrace a liar like Johnson. Now it's just blithely asserted that any party would.
There are people around who would vote for a party no matter what and hate the opposition whatever, you know it aswell as I do, you can't deny that. The rest of us flip flop largely based on our own circumstances and thoughts.
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Johnson has lied throughout his life, often to cover his own questionable behaviour, in his pre-political career, in his private life and as a politician.
Starmer is a more traditional political deceiver.
Starmer has just lied throughout his political life and has got where he is today largely through dishonesty.
It would require a peculiar political bias not to acknowledge this.
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BB.
Stop making this personal. Find an example of a Labour politician deliberately lying on an issue of objective Truth and not correcting the record at the first opportunity and I'll agree with you.
At the risk of getting between BST and BB like a boxing ref, the idea that Labour do not lie is just laughable.
Have a look at Starmer as an example;
https://twitter.com/OrdinaryLeft
Watch the video at the top.
Zero integrity.
Thanks for that, Albie. That now confirms what many of us suspected. Keith's a f*cking liar like the rest of them.
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Just a minute, why should correcting a lie make it not a lie? All that is doing is admitting you lied. I take it you're referring to Starmer's porky about the EU vaccine? He didn't correct his lie (or mistake as you'd call it!) at the first opportunity. He only apologised when he realised he was in a corner and couldn't escape and was forced to.
Read the dictionary definition of "lie"
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/lie
"To say something untrue in order to deceive". Saying something untrue does not constitute a lie. If you retract what you said immediately the mistake is pointed out, you are not, by definition lying from that point on.
And I KNOW what you are going to say. You'll say that you are rock solid certain that Starmer was deliberately trying to deceive when he said the incorrect statement, and that he shite it and withdrew when it was pointed out to him. Apart from the fact that you have zero evidence to support that argument, just your own prejudices, how does that compare with Johnson refusing EVER to correct the record when he was proven to have lied? Time after time after time.
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Your getting confused again Billy lad. My point is not about Boris Johnson and his lies, all of which you confirm, it is about Keir Starmer and his lies, all of which you deny.
Has the penny dropped yet?
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BB.
Stop making this personal. Find an example of a Labour politician deliberately lying on an issue of objective Truth and not correcting the record at the first opportunity and I'll agree with you.
At the risk of getting between BST and BB like a boxing ref, the idea that Labour do not lie is just laughable.
Have a look at Starmer as an example;
https://twitter.com/OrdinaryLeft
Watch the video at the top.
Zero integrity.
Do you want to point out where Starmer lied on a matter of objective truth there?
For the record, I'm not defending every one of his policy stances or changes of policy stance. People can make their own decisions on that, and to some extent I do agree with Branton that Starmer is a ducker and diver.
Show me a successful politician who doesn't do that.
Do I wish we had politicians who were scrupulously transparent and consistent in every decision and comment they ever make? Not really, because they would be destroyed within minutes. Politics is a business that demands ducking and diving to some extent and we all have to factor that in when choosing who to vote for.
My point all along has been that Johnson is qualitatively different in his regular, pathological lying on matters of easily checkable objective truth. Not ducking and diving. Lying. Consistently.
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BB. I'll ask you again then. When has Starmer clearly and unequivocally ever lied about a matter of Objective Truth? One example.
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TL:DR Starmer lying is ok because a) he’s not Boris and b) some b*llocks about objective truth
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BST, I've given you one example already and you refuse to accept it. Others have given you other examples and you refuse to accept them. if I or anyone else gave you more examples of his lies or his fellow party members lies, you would continue to refuse to accept them.
You continue to live in a dream world of make-believe, it's no skin off my nose.
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Every time the t**t caught the train at Waterloo station to go to Brussels, A quisling, a 5th columnist, who was hell bent on undermining a referendum vote by the population of the UK.
A stabber in the back, not to be trusted, a waste of breath.
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Every time the t**t caught the train at Waterloo station to go to Brussels, A quisling, a 5th columnist, who was hell bent on undermining a referendum vote by the population of the UK.
A stabber in the back, not to be trusted, a waste of breath.
Be fair Selby at least a tyt is useful .
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Wrong Ldr. So, so wrong if you think Objective Truth doesn't matter.
Do you think it doesn't matter when Johnson stared down a camera and said that crime was down 14%, when in fact the number of recorded crimes had INCREASED by 14%? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-60250678
Do you think it doesn't matter when Johnson repeatedly said the Tories were going to build 40 new hospitals, then had his Health Secretary instruct civil servants to refer to re-fits and renovations, and building new PARTS of a hospital as "new hospitals"?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/59372348
Do you think it doesn't matter when Johnson lied about a matter, then lied about correcting the lie? https://boris-johnson-lies.com/i-think-i-took-steps-to-correct-the-record-earlier
And on, and on, and on. This isn't about ducking and diving. about changing positions on policies. You can hold politicians to account for that by questioning them and deciding whether you agree with their positions and ideas. This is entirely different. It's about destroying the basic foundation of truth that any discussion has to be based on. You KNOW where that leads. Or you should do if you think about it for a moment instead of making lazy smart-arse remarks.
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I condemn unreservedly lying by Boris Johnson
TRUTH matters Billy, all truth not just your argument of “Objective Truth” you, however, seem content to accept Starmers lies.
Maybe you don’t have the principles you like to portray?
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Ldr.
There are objective facts which are undeniable.
Today is Tuesday.
The sun is 93 million miles away.
Boris Johnson couldn't give a f**k about COVID rules.
These facts are unarguable, and acceptance of them forms the basis for any logically based exchange. Denying Objective Truths makes any exchange of views literally meaningless, because you can just choose to invent your own convenient reality.
I'll say again what I've been saying for years. No politician until very recently EVER lied on matters of Objective Truth and survived the day.
On the other hand, there are policies, opinions, interpretations where someone can be flip their position. You can denounce that as untrustworthy, even untruthful if you want. But if you denounce every politician who does that, you'll end up with no-one left.
Because politics is a messy, massively imperfect process. Where people who genuinely want to change society, often for idealistic, committed reasons, run into the difficulty of reality, where if they are always entirely open, it will be used against them.
You can choose not to vote for someone who does the latter, although you'll go a long way to find someone to vote for in that case
What you really can't do is equate the two issues of "truthfullness". The two issues of aren't remotely comparable.
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Truth is truth Billy, I’m sad your so desperate that you will condone it in Starmer. I always thought you were a man of integrity?
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Truth is truth Billy, I’m sad your so desperate that you will condone it in Starmer. I always thought you were a man of integrity?
Did you really, LDR? Have you really only just noticed?
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Wrong Ldr.
If Starmer starts outright lying, I will condemn him. As I would any politician.
When he ducks and dives and dissembles, flips policies and changes position, I will judge him as I judge all politicians.
Feel free to find any examples of Starmer lying over some matter of fact.
Equally, feel free to find me an example of any successful politician who had never ducked and dived and been less than straight.
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Wrong Ldr.
If Starmer starts outright lying, I will condemn him. As I would any politician.
When he ducks and dives and dissembles, flips policies and changes position, I will judge him as I judge all politicians.
Feel free to find any examples of Starmer lying over some matter of fact.
Equally, feel free to find me an example of any successful politician who had never ducked and dived and been less than straight.
More confirmation of all the same. Thank you.
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Wrong Ldr.
If Starmer starts outright lying, I will condemn him. As I would any politician.
When he ducks and dives and dissembles, flips policies and changes position, I will judge him as I judge all politicians.
Feel free to find any examples of Starmer lying over some matter of fact.
Equally, feel free to find me an example of any successful politician who had never ducked and dived and been less than straight.
More confirmation of all the same. Thank you.
Coooeeee.
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To be fair some of you could put Boris Johnson in a labour rosette and you'd support him. There's not much it any substance from any of the candidates yet, I'm sure that will come.
More of this nonsense.
There's never, ever been a person in any other party who has lied like Johnson.
You have no grounds whatsoever for saying that, because Johnson's lies were ignored by this Tory party, they'd be ignored by other parties.
You are assuming, with no evidence that the Labour party is as morally bankrupt as this Tory party. It's this normalisation. Of previously unacceptable stances that I've been banging on about for years. 10 years ago you'd have thought it unbelievable that ANY party would embrace a liar like Johnson. Now it's just blithely asserted that any party would.
There are people around who would vote for a party no matter what and hate the opposition whatever, you know it aswell as I do, you can't deny that. The rest of us flip flop largely based on our own circumstances and thoughts.
Have we not been here before about who you vote for pud? I think your answer was that for GEs you have always flopped but never flipped in the current context. Correct me if incorrect.
In a way I prefer bb's commentary, it's straight forward he votes tory no matter what, that he can't tell you why without mentioning labour is another matter, wouldn't it be good for a tory voter to occasionally come out and say ................ 'I vote tory for these reasons x, y, z' but they don't, why? because it wouldn't stand up to scrutiny so they use labour as a prop.
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Ldr.
There are objective facts which are undeniable.
Today is Tuesday.
The sun is 93 million miles away.
Boris Johnson couldn't give a f**k about COVID rules.
These facts are unarguable, and acceptance of them forms the basis for any logically based exchange. Denying Objective Truths makes any exchange of views literally meaningless, because you can just choose to invent your own convenient reality.
I'll say again what I've been saying for years. No politician until very recently EVER lied on matters of Objective Truth and survived the day.
On the other hand, there are policies, opinions, interpretations where someone can be flip their position. You can denounce that as untrustworthy, even untruthful if you want. But if you denounce every politician who does that, you'll end up with no-one left.
Because politics is a messy, massively imperfect process. Where people who genuinely want to change society, often for idealistic, committed reasons, run into the difficulty of reality, where if they are always entirely open, it will be used against them.
You can choose not to vote for someone who does the latter, although you'll go a long way to find someone to vote for in that case
What you really can't do is equate the two issues of "truthfullness". The two issues of aren't remotely comparable.
Quite pathetic really, your constant pandering about Johnson in this argument about the integrity of Starmer is quite revealing in your partisan approach to it all.
We ALL know what Johnson is, you don't need to keep using him as an example to try to make Starmer look presentable, two wrongs don;t make a right even when you bleat on that it does.
All this nonsense about ducking and diving and no politician ever got anywhere without being a bit savvy. Just admit it to yourself BST, Starmer is cut from the same cloth and is not to be trusted.
We're talking about a man who made it his life's work to walk back a democratic vote and did his utmost to connive and plot with his cronies in the EU to cause this country(his own country) the maximum harassment in their negotiations with a mendacious EU.
To top it all off he now expects the country to forget his 2 years of desperation and his championing of a fixed and corrupt speaker and parliament to now agree with him that his policy is now what he states.
Nobody believes him or the desperate agitators who try to promote him and manage to convince no one.
If i now wait for a short time, numb nuts will be along shortly to offer up some asinine crud for his buddy.
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So I guess you'll never vote tory again, if you have ever voted dd because they have collectively broken the law ans lied to queenie.
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''Footage resurfaces of Rishi Sunak who was fined for attending lockdown parties saying he didn't''
https://www.indy100.com/news/rishi-sunak-attended-lockdown-parties
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So I guess you'll never vote tory again, if you have ever voted dd because they have collectively broken the law ans lied to queenie.
Christ , i thought you may just give it a min or two.
What are you blaterhing on about now, no one's bothered about what Johnson did, hes todays chip paper, he wont be the first or the last to do so.
You on the other hand are so prdictable, nearly as a good as a robotic troll.
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So I guess you'll never vote tory again, if you have ever voted dd because they have collectively broken the law ans lied to queenie.
Christ , i thought you may just give it a min or two.
What are you blaterhing on about now, no one's bothered about what Johnson did, hes todays chip paper, he wont be the first or the last to do so.
You on the other hand are so prdictable, nearly as a good as a robotic troll.
Then the leadership contest must be one of those figments dd? is this how you see the future, it's ok guys it's safe now all is forgiven, you don't appear to be able to forget something that Starmer hasn't even done ffs, unless you want to tell us where he deliberately lied.
by the way have you ever voted in a GE?
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busadvertising
I accidentally attended an illegal gathering ........... then I lied about it in parliament.
I'm just like you.
Rishi.
Vote tory
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So I guess you'll never vote tory again, if you have ever voted dd because they have collectively broken the law ans lied to queenie.
Christ , i thought you may just give it a min or two.
What are you blaterhing on about now, no one's bothered about what Johnson did, hes todays chip paper, he wont be the first or the last to do so.
You on the other hand are so prdictable, nearly as a good as a robotic troll.
Then the leadership contest must be one of those figments dd? is this how you see the future, it's ok guys it's safe now all is forgiven, you don't appear to be able to forget something that Starmer hasn't even done ffs, unless you want to tell us where he deliberately lied.
by the way have you ever voted in a GE?
We all know what Johnson did and is, why would we now waste any time on this imbecile, no ones going to forgive him.we move on.
Starmer attempted to high jack the democratic will of the country and not allow it to run its course, if you want to have influence you first have to have the consent of the electorate, Starmer had neither, that's why no one trusts him.
I've voted in every GE i've been able to and i'll be having an influence and voting in the next, unlike some eh.
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So you cannot find a single example of Starmer deliberately lying dd, thank you for confirming that.
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So you cannot find a single example of Starmer deliberately lying dd, thank you for confirming that.
Ive called Starmer many things but i dont recall having to justify if he deliberatly lied, to you or anyone.
Thank you for confirming that your a wally.
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You don't have to do anything dd, which shows with you comments over time. Can't wait for your next essay.
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Penny Mordaunt FRSA VR
Did you know 'Dame Angela Lansbury is her grandmother's cousin''
more on a need-to-know basis
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penny_Mordaunt
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Does it really matter which of this shower is appointed they are all of a muchness. What really matters to me is that competent people are put in the key positions of Cabinet and not the current bunch of no hopers
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Unfortunately it does matter RR, as everyone has witnessed this bunch of spineless losers being willingly led into ditching all morals and being more than willing partners into breaking international and local laws.
I was just following orders doesn't cut it
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I think most would agree even tory supporters that there is a dearth of talent at the top table, the party needs to sort itself out but not at the expense of everyone else.
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So you cannot find a single example of Starmer deliberately lying dd, thank you for confirming that.
Sorry Syd, but there are many examples of Starmer lying.
For example, saying on Twitter that candidates should not be imposed on local parties, then doing exactly that in Wakefield and Stroud, leading to local members resigning.
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But it was an honest mistake. :woohoo:
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Unfortunately it does matter RR, as everyone has witnessed this bunch of spineless losers being willingly led into ditching all morals and being more than willing partners into breaking international and local laws.
I was just following orders doesn't cut it
Which is why whoever gets it surrounds themselves with competent Ministers, which limits the chaos the man or woman at the top can cause
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To be fair some of you could put Boris Johnson in a labour rosette and you'd support him. There's not much it any substance from any of the candidates yet, I'm sure that will come.
More of this nonsense.
There's never, ever been a person in any other party who has lied like Johnson.
You have no grounds whatsoever for saying that, because Johnson's lies were ignored by this Tory party, they'd be ignored by other parties.
You are assuming, with no evidence that the Labour party is as morally bankrupt as this Tory party. It's this normalisation. Of previously unacceptable stances that I've been banging on about for years. 10 years ago you'd have thought it unbelievable that ANY party would embrace a liar like Johnson. Now it's just blithely asserted that any party would.
There are people around who would vote for a party no matter what and hate the opposition whatever, you know it aswell as I do, you can't deny that. The rest of us flip flop largely based on our own circumstances and thoughts.
Have we not been here before about who you vote for pud? I think your answer was that for GEs you have always flopped but never flipped in the current context. Correct me if incorrect.
In a way I prefer bb's commentary, it's straight forward he votes tory no matter what, that he can't tell you why without mentioning labour is another matter, wouldn't it be good for a tory voter to occasionally come out and say ................ 'I vote tory for these reasons x, y, z' but they don't, why? because it wouldn't stand up to scrutiny so they use labour as a prop.
Prefer what you like, I'm 34 the number of elections i have voted in is pretty small.
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So you cannot find a single example of Starmer deliberately lying dd, thank you for confirming that.
Sorry Syd, but there are many examples of Starmer lying.
For example, saying on Twitter that candidates should not be imposed on local parties, then doing exactly that in Wakefield and Stroud, leading to local members resigning.
I didn't know Starmer chose Labour Party candidates Albie, you sure about that?
And if you are wrong - does that mean you are lying?
https://twitter.com/BloxsomJohn/status/1542636666212548614
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Spot the difference.
https://mobile.twitter.com/PennyMordaunt/status/1546049184373121024?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1546049184373121024%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Freaction.life%2Fpenny-mordaunt-video-based-on-the-day-today-symphony-of-flags-patriotic-spoof%2F
https://youtu.be/7Fjv5JJbjvw
God help us. She's second favourite.
Christ alive, she's going to win!
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So you cannot find a single example of Starmer deliberately lying dd, thank you for confirming that.
Sorry Syd, but there are many examples of Starmer lying.
For example, saying on Twitter that candidates should not be imposed on local parties, then doing exactly that in Wakefield and Stroud, leading to local members resigning.
If you mark that down as a lie you may as well opt out of politics as there won't be anyone to vote for. Whatever you said/repeated about Starmer and Savile was that a lie?
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To be fair some of you could put Boris Johnson in a labour rosette and you'd support him. There's not much it any substance from any of the candidates yet, I'm sure that will come.
More of this nonsense.
There's never, ever been a person in any other party who has lied like Johnson.
You have no grounds whatsoever for saying that, because Johnson's lies were ignored by this Tory party, they'd be ignored by other parties.
You are assuming, with no evidence that the Labour party is as morally bankrupt as this Tory party. It's this normalisation. Of previously unacceptable stances that I've been banging on about for years. 10 years ago you'd have thought it unbelievable that ANY party would embrace a liar like Johnson. Now it's just blithely asserted that any party would.
There are people around who would vote for a party no matter what and hate the opposition whatever, you know it aswell as I do, you can't deny that. The rest of us flip flop largely based on our own circumstances and thoughts.
Have we not been here before about who you vote for pud? I think your answer was that for GEs you have always flopped but never flipped in the current context. Correct me if incorrect.
In a way I prefer bb's commentary, it's straight forward he votes tory no matter what, that he can't tell you why without mentioning labour is another matter, wouldn't it be good for a tory voter to occasionally come out and say ................ 'I vote tory for these reasons x, y, z' but they don't, why? because it wouldn't stand up to scrutiny so they use labour as a prop.
Prefer what you like, I'm 34 the number of elections i have voted in is pretty small.
I guess the main point I'm making here is you and others that want to give the impression that you are flexible and make a considered balanced decision, but never actually vote for anyone but a tory pud.
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Spot the difference.
https://mobile.twitter.com/PennyMordaunt/status/1546049184373121024?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1546049184373121024%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Freaction.life%2Fpenny-mordaunt-video-based-on-the-day-today-symphony-of-flags-patriotic-spoof%2F
https://youtu.be/7Fjv5JJbjvw
God help us. She's second favourite.
Christ alive, she's going to win!
Someone is going to have a long night searching through everything to try and find something to discredit her.
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Spot the difference.
https://mobile.twitter.com/PennyMordaunt/status/1546049184373121024?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1546049184373121024%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Freaction.life%2Fpenny-mordaunt-video-based-on-the-day-today-symphony-of-flags-patriotic-spoof%2F
https://youtu.be/7Fjv5JJbjvw
God help us. She's second favourite.
Christ alive, she's going to win!
Someone is going to have a long night searching through everything to try and find something to discredit her.
Aye, about 30 seconds
https://twitter.com/Otto_English/status/1547338709242200065
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another belly flop
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No need to go searching. Here she was just the other day being interviewed by Iain Dale and doubling down on an Objective Lie she pushed during the Brexit campaign.
https://mobile.twitter.com/LBC/status/1546931094238412800
It was an Objective Truth that we had a veto. Saying we didn't was a straight lie.
Trying then to justify that by saying we didn't have a veto because Cameron had said we didn't want to use it and that this tied our hands is a clever attempt at interpretation, not a lie. But coming from someone who is in the Cabinet of a PM who signed a legally binding international treaty, then just passed legislation to rip that up, it's an interpretation that falls apart as soon as you look at it. So first she lied on a matter of fact. Then she tried to explain the lie by an illogical argument. Not the best of starts.
There's another issue where people are incorrectly saying she's a liar. A couple of years back she said very clearly that she believed trans men are men and trans women are women. Today, she changed her stance on that. That is a change of opinion, not a lie. She's doing it because she won't get elected by the Tory membership unless she does. You may think that's unprincipled, but most politicians have to do that at some point. A perfect example was Corbyn having a lifelong belief that we should leave NATO and unilaterally give up our nuclear weapons, but leading a Labour party into an election committed to NATO membership and retaining nuclear weapons.
That's the reality of politics. Anyone who dismisses every politician who does that as a liar is still at playground level.
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they don't want to see it do they
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By the way SS.
Look what your Golden Boy is saying.
https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/sunak-says-he-will-run-economy-like-thatcher-if-elected-uk-pm-telegraph-2022-07-12/
That should go down well in the Red Wall seats...
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another belly flop
.
What happened, did you take your corset off?
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.......................
That's the reality of politics. Anyone who dismisses every politician who does that as a liar is still at playground level.
also
Anyone who dismisses every politician in an ephemeral moment as a "kitson" is still at playground level.
as for repeatedly commenting on an MP's gait f.f.s. thank g0d we haven't heard that line for a couple of years
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Truss has been inspiring with her 'farmers grow food' reference
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Liz Truss, the woman who can't even find the correct way out of her own campaign launch - gawd help us
https://twitter.com/torysleazeUK/status/1547529473968312321
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.......................
That's the reality of politics. Anyone who dismisses every politician who does that as a liar is still at playground level.
also
Anyone who dismisses every politician in an ephemeral moment as a "kitson" is still at playground level.
as for repeatedly commenting on an MP's gait f.f.s. thank g0d we haven't heard that line for a couple of years
No. That was an entirely justified and reasonable response, to senior politician ranting about deporting ALL citizens of a country. That was a f**king stupid thing to say and would, if implemented, f**k up the lives of thousands of honest, hardworking people who had made their home here. Including a very close friend whom I've known for 20 years and who we are privileged to have in this country.
That wasn't anything to do with what we are talking about on the issue of lying on matters of Objective Truth. It was a senior MP shooting his mouth off without giving thought to the implications of what he was saying. Without taking the responsibility that comes with his position. And he could be PM in 7 weeks time.
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Do voters in the run-offs have to show ID?
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As for the particular MP's gait, you clearly didn't pick up on the implication. I'll spell it out. Michael Gove has a history of being a coke head. He frequently exhibits weird physical behaviour that suggests he's off his tits.
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Liz Truss, the woman who can't even find the correct way out of her own campaign launch - gawd help us
https://twitter.com/torysleazeUK/status/1547529473968312321
Penny Mordaunt once took a challenge to say "cock" at every opportunity in a Parliamentary debate.Maybe Truss has been challenged to play out a Big Lebowski exit scene.
https://youtu.be/AerwiwxNtwo?t=84
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https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2022/07/13/penny-mordaunt-clear-favourite-next-conservative-l
Only just caught up fully with this. Fascinating stuff for seeing into the minds (sic) of Tory party members.
Scroll down to the head-to-head figures.
Basically Sunak loses hands down to Mordaunt & Truss in a straight face off. He loses comfortably to Tugendhat and Badenoch, even though she is barking mad.
The only one he would have comfortably beaten was Hunt.
Now look at what the candidates are saying. Truss, Mordaunt, Badenoch and Tugendhat are saying they will shower us with massive, unfunded tax cuts. The only two who said that it wasn't right to bring in tax cuts were...Sunak and Hunt.
That's the core of the story. You dangle tax cuts in front of the backwoodsmen and they follow Zombie-like.
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No tax cuts?
The following from the guardian:
“Rishi Sunak will kick off his leadership campaign on Tuesday with a promise to grip inflation and lower taxes, as speculation mounted over which candidates could swing in behind the former chancellor.”
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Tax cuts will come from Rishi, but he’ll probably wait until there’s an election, not likely soon.
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To be fair some of you could put Boris Johnson in a labour rosette and you'd support him. There's not much it any substance from any of the candidates yet, I'm sure that will come.
More of this nonsense.
There's never, ever been a person in any other party who has lied like Johnson.
You have no grounds whatsoever for saying that, because Johnson's lies were ignored by this Tory party, they'd be ignored by other parties.
You are assuming, with no evidence that the Labour party is as morally bankrupt as this Tory party. It's this normalisation. Of previously unacceptable stances that I've been banging on about for years. 10 years ago you'd have thought it unbelievable that ANY party would embrace a liar like Johnson. Now it's just blithely asserted that any party would.
There are people around who would vote for a party no matter what and hate the opposition whatever, you know it aswell as I do, you can't deny that. The rest of us flip flop largely based on our own circumstances and thoughts.
Have we not been here before about who you vote for pud? I think your answer was that for GEs you have always flopped but never flipped in the current context. Correct me if incorrect.
In a way I prefer bb's commentary, it's straight forward he votes tory no matter what, that he can't tell you why without mentioning labour is another matter, wouldn't it be good for a tory voter to occasionally come out and say ................ 'I vote tory for these reasons x, y, z' but they don't, why? because it wouldn't stand up to scrutiny so they use labour as a prop.
Prefer what you like, I'm 34 the number of elections i have voted in is pretty small.
I guess the main point I'm making here is you and others that want to give the impression that you are flexible and make a considered balanced decision, but never actually vote for anyone but a tory pud.
What has anyone else ever offered me that makes me want to vote for them?
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To be fair some of you could put Boris Johnson in a labour rosette and you'd support him. There's not much it any substance from any of the candidates yet, I'm sure that will come.
More of this nonsense.
There's never, ever been a person in any other party who has lied like Johnson.
You have no grounds whatsoever for saying that, because Johnson's lies were ignored by this Tory party, they'd be ignored by other parties.
You are assuming, with no evidence that the Labour party is as morally bankrupt as this Tory party. It's this normalisation. Of previously unacceptable stances that I've been banging on about for years. 10 years ago you'd have thought it unbelievable that ANY party would embrace a liar like Johnson. Now it's just blithely asserted that any party would.
There are people around who would vote for a party no matter what and hate the opposition whatever, you know it aswell as I do, you can't deny that. The rest of us flip flop largely based on our own circumstances and thoughts.
Have we not been here before about who you vote for pud? I think your answer was that for GEs you have always flopped but never flipped in the current context. Correct me if incorrect.
In a way I prefer bb's commentary, it's straight forward he votes tory no matter what, that he can't tell you why without mentioning labour is another matter, wouldn't it be good for a tory voter to occasionally come out and say ................ 'I vote tory for these reasons x, y, z' but they don't, why? because it wouldn't stand up to scrutiny so they use labour as a prop.
Prefer what you like, I'm 34 the number of elections i have voted in is pretty small.
I guess the main point I'm making here is you and others that want to give the impression that you are flexible and make a considered balanced decision, but never actually vote for anyone but a tory pud.
What has anyone else ever offered me that makes me want to vote for them?
How about 2010?
Labour offered a classic, textbook Keynesian stimulus package to help us climb out of the hole of the GFC recession.
The Tories offered Voodoo Economics, focussing on Deficit Uber Alles. Their Austerity had no theoretical foundation, and only the thinnest empirical backing, that was already known to be flaky at best.
Do you agree that you made the wrong choice there?
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Not particularly at the time no. However, what I would say is that I'd be more tempted now to go for that than what both parties are offering currently which shows just how far things have fallen. There is still no doubt in my mind that 2010 needed a new government and I still fundamentally believe there was too much spending in the wrong areas at times during the labour government, the welfare state for one was too big back then.
But, I'd argue that the same can be said of the next election with the parties switched. The current Tory government is offering little by way of solutions and not going far with its promises. I also don't think that labour offer much alternative if I'm honest.
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I love how they all talk as though they have had nothing to do with the last 3 years of Government
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BFYP.
In 2010, it really didn't matter WHERE the spending went. What mattered was that Govt spent somewhere - anywhere, to keep money flowing round the economy. That is absolutely nailed down basic economics.
You say we needed a new Govt then. But the new Govt introduced the worst macro-economic policy for 80 years. That's nw beyond all doubt. It's clear that their Austerity throttled off growth altogether for two years, then hobbled it afterwards. Our productivity and long term growth have been absolutely smashed by that. I genuinely astonished that anyone can look back over this past decade and not see that.
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You don't have to believe me by the way. Here's the ONS's own figures.
(https://ercouncil.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/ercchart3016.gif)
Yes the GFC was a massive hit to the economy. But by 2010, we had bottomed out and ad started clawing our way back. There is no reason whatsoever why our ten year growth shouldn't have returned to 20-30% if we'd followed the correct policies. Instead it collapsed to the worst level for 200 years. With the concomitant collapse in wage growth.
It happened, so people tend to think it was inevitable. It wasn't. It was a policy choice. To get the Tories in power. Nothing less. And people wonder why I despise them.
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By the way SS.
Look what your Golden Boy is saying.
https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/sunak-says-he-will-run-economy-like-thatcher-if-elected-uk-pm-telegraph-2022-07-12/
That should go down well in the Red Wall seats...
MY golden boy? Sorry, BST, you're confusing me with someone who gives a f*ck.
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Anyone wanting to understand politics over the next couple of years needs to get this.
https://mobile.twitter.com/DuncanWeldon/status/1547638785659219969?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
First of all that explains the slavish, mindless promises of tax cuts or Thatcherite economics by the Tory candidates. They have to say that because their party member, and even moreso, their MPs are off the right hand scale on economics.
But voters aren't.
Even mainstream Tory voters aren't off at the batshit far right of economic views. Still less the Red Wall 2019 Tory voters.
So the Tories cannot win on economics in 2024.
Which is what I've been saying for months.
But where they CAN win is in a Culture War. Which is why an obsessive nobody like Badenoch is raising her profile. Because she's standing as the Culture Warrior. And she'll get a Cabinet Position. And then expect full on Culture War rhetoric from the Tories.
Welcome to the next 2 years.
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By the way SS.
Look what your Golden Boy is saying.
https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/sunak-says-he-will-run-economy-like-thatcher-if-elected-uk-pm-telegraph-2022-07-12/
That should go down well in the Red Wall seats...
MY golden boy? Sorry, BST, you're confusing me with someone who gives a f*ck.
You e been telling us for months that Sunak was going to turn the Tories around and he'd put the shits up Labour. I assumed he impressed you.
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To be fair some of you could put Boris Johnson in a labour rosette and you'd support him. There's not much it any substance from any of the candidates yet, I'm sure that will come.
More of this nonsense.
There's never, ever been a person in any other party who has lied like Johnson.
You have no grounds whatsoever for saying that, because Johnson's lies were ignored by this Tory party, they'd be ignored by other parties.
You are assuming, with no evidence that the Labour party is as morally bankrupt as this Tory party. It's this normalisation. Of previously unacceptable stances that I've been banging on about for years. 10 years ago you'd have thought it unbelievable that ANY party would embrace a liar like Johnson. Now it's just blithely asserted that any party would.
There are people around who would vote for a party no matter what and hate the opposition whatever, you know it aswell as I do, you can't deny that. The rest of us flip flop largely based on our own circumstances and thoughts.
Have we not been here before about who you vote for pud? I think your answer was that for GEs you have always flopped but never flipped in the current context. Correct me if incorrect.
In a way I prefer bb's commentary, it's straight forward he votes tory no matter what, that he can't tell you why without mentioning labour is another matter, wouldn't it be good for a tory voter to occasionally come out and say ................ 'I vote tory for these reasons x, y, z' but they don't, why? because it wouldn't stand up to scrutiny so they use labour as a prop.
Prefer what you like, I'm 34 the number of elections i have voted in is pretty small.
I guess the main point I'm making here is you and others that want to give the impression that you are flexible and make a considered balanced decision, but never actually vote for anyone but a tory pud.
What has anyone else ever offered me that makes me want to vote for them?
I thought being an economic rationalist you'd be able to show how your choice of team has improved the economy starting from say 2010.
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It sounds like the next PM won't need a treasurer as they have already made the major decisions.
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liz truss, remind me which planet she lives on?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_wkO4hk07o
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Jesus wept.
https://mobile.twitter.com/economics/status/1548779549684649991
Total vacuum of any guiding ideas in the Tory party.
So Truss doesn't just dress like Thatcher. She scours Thatcher's policies. And finds THE very worst one of all. Targeting money supply. The policy Thatcherv implemented in the early 80s, turning a bad recession into a 4 million on the dole, industry-destroying carnage.
God help us.
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''The Penny Mordaunt campaign has said a statement on the cancellation of the Sky News debate released earlier, which blamed Rishi Sunak and Liz Truss for not being able to debate each other “in a civil way” (see 11.13am), was sent out in error. It has retracted that statement, and instead issued this comment which does not not criticise her rivals. A campaign spokesperson said:
Media scrutiny is important in this contest. Penny has done broadcast and allowed time for journalists to ask questions at her launch. MPs aren’t just picking a new leader, but picking the nation’s new PM. Penny hopes there will be ample opportunity for such scrutiny later in the contest in a format that allows detailed questions and insights''
Guardian live
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The Sunak and Truss camps this morning.
https://youtu.be/QtZpG6a1zvs
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Who would be your pick Billy, the one you think would be the easiest for Labour to beat in a general election?
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Selby, the most difficult one for Labour to beat would be the one who has the best policies ideas to lead the country out of a cost of living crises and climate emergency in the next 2 years or so in which they will be PM.
If you have been watching the debates it will be a Labour landslide - because none of them have. God help us tho.
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Paul Mason doesn't always get it right, but I think he has Badenoch sussed.
She's not going to win this time and I think there's a growing feeling that the Tories have run out of ideas and steam this time and are likely to lose in 2024.
So Badenoch is positioning herself for the blood-letting in a couple of years time. when the Tories start asking themselves what they believe in and where they are going. And her answer will be "Into the Trump World of a Culture War", where they drive out anyone from the One Nation, moderate wing of the party and go into full-on cultural division as the aim. Badenoch is frighteningly obsessive about that. Hence her laying in to Mordaunt last night about trans- people.
It's going to be very ugly.
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There is another train of thought that goes something along the lines of; Johnson is quite happy for this change of PM to go ahead because it will show to the Party & the country how little competent talent there now is in the Tory Party - and he will be back before th next GE - or very soon after it.
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If they're all crap, and I agree they are, and Labour will win in 2024, which I agree they probably will, then what are you all complaining about?
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Steve - the prospect of the next two and a half years.
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Hard to believe, but this bloke reckons Truss is misrepresenting the truth ..........
''I grew up where Liz Truss did, attended the same school. She’s not telling you the truth
Martin Pengelly''
''To that end, she has chosen to repeat old attacks on her home and her old school. She lived and went to school in Roundhay, a leafy suburb of Leeds. I know a bit about it – I grew up there at the same time. I too went to that school.
Truss claims to have grown up in a “red wall” seat. This is not just a wilful anachronism, it is flatly untrue. Leeds North East, the constituency that contains both Roundhay school and the tall stone houses in which Truss and I grew up, was Conservative from 1955 to 1997 – by which time Truss had graduated from Oxford'' ...........
.......... ''But to do so would be to draw attention to the fact that when we were at Roundhay, Conservatives controlled education policy and spending, and how when the school was rebuilt, Labour did. The history of the school’s official rating also tells such a tale, from “satisfactory” under the Conservatives to “outstanding” under Labour''
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jul/18/liz-truss-roundhay-school-foreign-secretary-education
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There is another train of thought that goes something along the lines of; Johnson is quite happy for this change of PM to go ahead because it will show to the Party & the country how little competent talent there now is in the Tory Party - and he will be back before th next GE - or very soon after it.
Wasn't it Johnson who kicked out a heap of the most capable faces the Tories had?
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Just when you thought Johnson could t get any more vindictive...
He's removed the Tory whip from Johnson critic Tobias Ellwood for missing the MONC in Parliament last night. That means Ellwood cannot vote in the Tory leadership ballots.
Now, God knows I've no axe to grind for Ellwood, given my first hand knowledge of how his self confidence was match only by his vacuousness.
But the reason he missed the vote was that he is the chair of the Defence Select Committee and was in Moldova last night meeting with the Prime Minister to discuss the military situation in Transnistria where Russian separatists have long threatened armed aggression.
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With Badenoch losing, whatever of the remaining candidates get in to give us the clown show for the coming couple of years (please let it be Truss!), it's now all Starmer's to lose for the next GE. Badenoch stood a chance, as it stands the others don't.
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Stitched on for a Labour win then ?
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Just when you thought Johnson could t get any more vindictive...
He's removed the Tory whip from Johnson critic Tobias Ellwood for missing the MONC in Parliament last night. That means Ellwood cannot vote in the Tory leadership ballots.
Now, God knows I've no axe to grind for Ellwood, given my first hand knowledge of how his self confidence was match only by his vacuousness.
But the reason he missed the vote was that he is the chair of the Defence Select Committee and was in Moldova last night meeting with the Prime Minister to discuss the military situation in Transnistria where Russian separatists have long threatened armed aggression.
Apparently he couldnt get a flight back in time .. But he is a known Morduant supporter.
As they say "nothing personal" Johnson was just doing his bit to help his preferred successor.
Full stop.
Lets airbrush from history the other ten conservatives who didn't vote..
It seems in order to beef up the story the meaning of "not doing something" has been elevated to "abstaining"
It will be quite ironic if Morduant loses by one vote
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Just when you thought Johnson could t get any more vindictive...
He's removed the Tory whip from Johnson critic Tobias Ellwood for missing the MONC in Parliament last night. That means Ellwood cannot vote in the Tory leadership ballots.
Now, God knows I've no axe to grind for Ellwood, given my first hand knowledge of how his self confidence was match only by his vacuousness.
But the reason he missed the vote was that he is the chair of the Defence Select Committee and was in Moldova last night meeting with the Prime Minister to discuss the military situation in Transnistria where Russian separatists have long threatened armed aggression.
Apparently he couldnt get a flight back in time .. But he is a known Morduant supporter.
As they say "nothing personal" Johnson was just doing his bit to help his preferred successor.
Full stop.
Lets airbrush from history the other ten conservatives who didn't vote..
It seems in order to beef up the story the meaning of "not doing something" has been elevated to "abstaining"
It will be quite ironic if Morduant loses by one vote
you didn't state the apparent " alleged" true facts neither apparently did I
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/recent-weeks-a-sad-chapter-in-history-of-conservatives-says-ellwood/ar-AAZM5Zi?li=BBoPRmx
Government minister Simon Clarke defended the decision to strip the Tory party whip from Mr Ellwood, calling his actions a “very serious mistake”.
“He was in Moldova, rather than Ukraine. He was not on Government work, he is a backbench MP,” he told Sky News.
etc etc
NOW out of interest technically could Boris has deliberately not voted and withdrawn the whip from himself !!! (i will leave the jokes to you on that) and consequently become an Independant but still the Prime Minister ???? and how would they remove him ??
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here are the results of the latest yougov pole
https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/wue1nfg0b7/ConMembers_July19th_head_to_heads_w.pdf
Sample Size: 725 Conservative Party members
Fieldwork: 18th - 19th July 2022
don't the Conservatives have around 200,000 ( as of March 2021)
I wouldn't like to draw conclusions on such a small sample - what does BST think about the sample
bear in mind in the 1960's we used to supply stats to a company called Attwood Statistics concerning our shopping basket and I was allowed to choose our "phantom purchases"
https://app.duedil.com/company/gb/00753685/attwood-statistics-limited