Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: normal rules on November 07, 2022, 06:18:27 pm
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With two weeks to go, I don’t think I’ve ever been so un interested in the global footy tournament that has given us so much watching pleasure and pain over recent years.
So who is getting excited by this. Who is watching it? Who is giving it a complete miss.
I couldnt give a hoot for it personally.
I hope it’s an absolute flop.
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Not interested in the slightest to be honest.
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For the first time in a lot of years this is one tournament that I won't be attending. It's not just the strict moral system they operate that's put me off, there's a multitude of reasons including the high cost, the lack of accommodation, the move away from a summer competition etc etc.
As a tournament I think it's got nothing going for it.
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Won't be watching a second. Will be boycotting every sponsor the best I can.
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Is anyone even going? This is way more expensive than when our group games were in Ukraine in the Euros that time and that was poorly attended by England fans.
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I really couldn’t care less about it.
I’m sure when it starts I will watch.
Just doesn’t feel right does it
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Is anyone even going? This is way more expensive than when our group games were in Ukraine in the Euros that time and that was poorly attended by England fans.
I know quite a number of people who are going, including several DRFC supporters.
Did you think the Euros were poorly attended?
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I'll probably get into it when it starts but even putting aside the "Qatar angle" it just seems very drab at the moment because of the timing. Normally the season would be winding down, the weather improving and people talking about it. Now I feel the season is just starting to take shape (past Dave Penney's magic ten game marker) and we're about to break off and won't even be enjoying it in the sun. Also, from a football PoV I feel it's come at exactly the wrong time for England but we've done more than OK in the last two tournaments so who knows.
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Is anyone even going? This is way more expensive than when our group games were in Ukraine in the Euros that time and that was poorly attended by England fans.
Have you seen some of the extra accommodation on offer.those ex military amongst us will recognise them as Glorified Corrimecs. Like a container city. They reckon there is an initial 2-3000 England fans going and I don’t envy any of them.
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Its not for me. It must be the first time ever I have not been excited by a World Cup. Even the ones without England playing did create some buzz for me. And I expect this one to be as boring as one of Gareth Southgates football teams.
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Not interested or not going to watch any
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£12-15 quid a pint, don’t think there will be many drinking.
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It'll be interesting to see a tournament goes with players in the middle of the season instead of after the season's finished.
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It’s a bit of a shitshow to say the least. Awarded in a corrupt process. Very poor labour standards and scores killed building the sites. Dumped in middle of season so loads of lads injured. Only upside is people gathering in pubs will generate some body heat to distract from freezing cold December weather and sky high energy prices. Hopefully a load of protests take place in the stadiums. At least until the riot police beat the shit out of them.
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Now I feel the season is just starting to take shape (past Dave Penney's magic ten game marker) and we're about to break off and won't even be enjoying it in the sun.
About to break off !?!? No we're not. Only the upper echelons (i.e Premier League etc.) are breaking off. Us lower division types can quite happily carry on watching our teams, I'm pleased to say.
No world cup for me. #Sportswashing
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I’ll be watching it and planned a weeks annual leave to do some studying to coincide with the England group games. I agree that there is a distinct lack of excitement about it though.
That will soon change if England start doing well
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It’s a sham the whole of European football disrupted because of corruption. The World Cup has always been held close to the summer months and it still should be. It’s not about inclusion it’s about money.
On England’s chances, if Southgate puts the form players in the side, we could get into the latter stages. If he puts square pegs in round holes we will be out in the group stage.
I don’t feel a connection with our players any more. When we got to the semi final and final under Southgate, somehow it wasn’t as big an achievement as it would have been had happened in the past, as it did at Italia 90 and Euro 96.
I won’t see much of the tournament as I will be working as I’m sure a lot on here are as well.
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Shameful event , if England won it ..... So what !!
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Its only a four hour drive away from us, yet I don't know of anyone going. The restrictions placed at the Saudi/Qatar boarder is crazy. On a normal weekend its turn up at immigration, show your GCC resident card and in you go. Now you need to pre register park up and pay to get on designated shuttle busses under strict controls like cattle, regardless even if your not attending the games.
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Agree with most of the comments above, really uninterested mainly due to the ethics of it all but also the time of year.
Of course I'll end up watching it though, begrudgingly.
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A summer world cup is fine for Europe but what about south American or Asian, southern hemisphere teams are their seasons disrupted because of a summer world cup?
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No I’m not interested.
I’m also fed up with all the hypocrisy around the whole thing
People complaining about everything then going or getting paid to work there.
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Even Sepp Blatter says Qatar is a mistake........ and he was in charge of the corrupt bunch when they awarded it to them...
https://www.malaymail.com/news/sports/2022/11/08/qatar-is-a-mistake-says-former-fifa-president-sepp-blatter/38342
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Even Sepp Blatter says Qatar is a mistake........ and he was in charge of the corrupt bunch when they awarded it to them...
https://www.malaymail.com/news/sports/2022/11/08/qatar-is-a-mistake-says-former-fifa-president-sepp-blatter/38342
wonder how much he got as a back hander for it going to Qatar
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Even Sepp Blatter says Qatar is a mistake........ and he was in charge of the corrupt bunch when they awarded it to them...
https://www.malaymail.com/news/sports/2022/11/08/qatar-is-a-mistake-says-former-fifa-president-sepp-blatter/38342
That's like Ronald McDonald saying burgers are a bad idea
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Even Sepp Blatter says Qatar is a mistake........ and he was in charge of the corrupt bunch when they awarded it to them...
https://www.malaymail.com/news/sports/2022/11/08/qatar-is-a-mistake-says-former-fifa-president-sepp-blatter/38342
Just an absolute disgrace to rub salt in what we all knew. They had ample opportunity during the selection process to think hang on a minute. Obvs blinded by the cash coming their way highlighting their immorality, hypocrisy and greed.
Will probably watch a few games of the home nations although I suspect it will be quite a brief tournament for us.
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It even looks as though our own football hierarchy can’t be bothered. I mean how many years have we known about this tournament being played at the time of year it is? Yet even with the years to prepare, we have still managed to produce the most congested fixture pile up of any country in Europe, possibly the world. Seeing Kane being trotted out last night in the nothing trophy said all you need to know for me. The battle between the premier league/FA for power will derail possibly our best chance in the past 25/30 years of success in this tournament.
Big opportunity but even bigger shame they couldn’t work together to give us a genuinely good chance of success
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More chance of me plaiting fog than England winning this World Cup.
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Got a funny feeling we might see the second coming of Marcus Rashford IF Southgate is brave enough to play him.
Now he's given up his milk round he looks more like his old direct attacking self.
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Got a funny feeling we might see the second coming of Marcus Rashford IF Southgate is brave enough to play him.
Now he's given up his milk round he looks more like his old direct attacking self.
Not sure I would call it cowardice if Southgate doesn’t play him. He’s competing for a spot with Saka (exceptional this season), Foden (played very well up until a couple of weeks ago when he’s lost his place), Sterling (not a good season by any means but he’s been played all over the place, has experience on his side, creates a lot of space for Kane and he was our best player only a year and a half ago at the Euros), Grealish (currently keeping Foden out of the team) and Maddison (not really his best role but if there’s going to be a place for him anywhere in this system it’ll likely be as a forward).
Rashford is playing much better than last season but I’m not sure he’s made a hugely compelling case for his inclusion over any of them, although similarly to Sterling his experience might count in his favour.
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Rashford playing better than he did last season is not a reason to include him. There aren’t many forwards in the prem that aren’t playing better than him last year
If there’s an argument to include players on experience don’t come complaining if Maguire makes mistakes.
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I will watch every match I can, although once England goes out my interest wains considerably. I never miss watching an England game. We should get to the semi finals before we go out.
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How many other sports would hold their World Championships in a country that has no real connection with their sport?
It lays bare the pure commercialism to which the modern game is firmly anchored.
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How many other sports would hold their World Championships in a country that has no real connection with their sport?
It lays bare the pure commercialism to which the modern game is firmly anchored.
I'm not sure I entirely agree with the first line. You couldn't really say Japan and South Korea, or even South Africa, really have much of a connection with the sport. Sure, they play the game there at a professional level, but none are really footballing powerhouses. Why should a country that isn't traditionally connected with the sport not be allowed to host a tournament, if it wins the right to do so legitimately, of course?
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This really is xenophobia or just "we invented footy it should be done our way" at its finest. Who says a tournament has to be in the summer just because the English can't get time off or because we're not used to it??
The scandis and American have to stop their league for summer tournaments ... But let me guess :lol: that matters less "coz they don't do real football and we do"
Embrace something new, something different, is called culture. Nobody said footy must kick off sat 3pm or you must go holiday in benidorm every year :P enjoy change
ALSO... drinking game for you....a shot every time Sterling loses the ball.... you'll be hammered after 15 minutes...awful player :sick:
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Why wouldn’t any true football fan be interested in the World Cup when their country is appearing? Crazy
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I’m a true football fan of my club. I’m afraid I associate our overrated obscenely overpaid national players, rightly or wrongly, with the greed of the Premier League, which I absolutely despise. I have no interest in this competition.
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Everybody was interested in the last World Cup. Of which occurred 4 years after Russia annexed Crimea in Ukraine.
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Everybody was interested in the last World Cup. Of which occurred 4 years after Russia annexed Crimea in Ukraine.
True, true only time all football fans can unite and watch their country play, I will support any of our English teams Football, Rugby, Cricket , hockey etc in all format’s regards of what country it’s in or who’s behind the organisation, come on England
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I'd recommend the four part documentary which is available on Netflix titled " FIFA Uncovered " .
Many may see FIFA and The World Cup differently .
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How many other sports would hold their World Championships in a country that has no real connection with their sport?
It lays bare the pure commercialism to which the modern game is firmly anchored.
I'm not sure I entirely agree with the first line. You couldn't really say Japan and South Korea, or even South Africa, really have much of a connection with the sport. Sure, they play the game there at a professional level, but none are really footballing powerhouses. Why should a country that isn't traditionally connected with the sport not be allowed to host a tournament, if it wins the right to do so legitimately, of course?
Whilst I cannot say I have ever lived in any of the 3 countries mentioned it is a fact that South Korea have played in 10 World Cup finals, Japan 7 and South Africa where football is played probably more widely than rugby, 3. I have not done exhaustive research, but it is clear from what may be gleaned from reliable sources that all three countries have football leagues and many thousands of regular players - 827k registered in Japan for example. I didn’t mention ”powerhouses”.
Thus I stand by my original statement, but I am sure you could argue about the definition of “real connection”.
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I’m probably less interested than usual, but it is the World Cup after all. I’ll watch a few games and of course I want England to do well, but won’t be crying in my beer if they don’t.
the non-football issues are lessening my interest but I will watch some.
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No interest at all, Southgate is so predictable in who will be his 1st 11 stop the opposition scoring in the hope they can nick one. Unless he shakes things up and starts playing progressive attacking football I will not be watching any of the England games and I have no interest in any other country playing
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I’m astonished that Ivan Toney isn’t in the squad.
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I’m astonished that Ivan Toney isn’t in the squad.
Think that’s more to do with the FA investigation rather than footballing ability.
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If you want proof here it is: https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/nov/14/stadiums-of-shame-the-numbers-world-cup-hosts-qatar-dont-want-to-be-seen
Don't watch this vile tournament.
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I'd recommend the four part documentary which is available on Netflix titled " FIFA Uncovered " .
Many may see FIFA and The World Cup differently .
I'm watching it ,very interesting and the amount of money been exchanged between people
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On bbc news tonight. Another young father dies on sub standard scaffold platform. But it’s his fault according to Qatar govt.
#boycott World Cup
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and nowt like antagonising the locals with the name of the plane
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On bbc news tonight. Another young father dies on sub standard scaffold platform. But it’s his fault according to Qatar govt.
#boycott World Cup
And it's also been in the news today that a young boy in England died due to the disgusting nature of his council flat after countless warnings any nobody in authority caring..... boycott and bid the UK make for the world cup?
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Interesting. So far 43% won’t be watching if national team not playing.
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On bbc news tonight. Another young father dies on sub standard scaffold platform. But it’s his fault according to Qatar govt.
#boycott World Cup
And it's also been in the news today that a young boy in England died due to the disgusting nature of his council flat after countless warnings any nobody in authority caring..... boycott and bid the UK make for the world cup?
Your analogy regarding this tragic death holds little water unless you can show me that thousands of people have died under similar circumstances and it’s been held as such in a court, in this country. I’ll save you the trouble. You can’t. It was a landmark ruling. It’s never been proved that mould in a house has directly contributed to a death prior to this.
And before you quote numbers , I’m aware that there are around only 30-40 sad deaths directly attributed to World Cup construction in Qatar. The figure for migrants deaths in the general construction industry over there is far far higher, into the thousands. The death of that 2 yr old is tragic. And it was avoidable. But it’s not in the same league as what’s happening in Qatar. And yes, we will never know the full truth around migrant deaths. But thousands are going there to work and not returning , unless it’s in a box.
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I gave up on England after the 1998 World Cup. Partly as I was despondent after our relegation from the League, partly for the reasons Chris the Rover states above and partly cos I decided that supporting one crap team was enough. I've not watched more than half an hour of an England game since. It's a decision I've never regretted.
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My favourite part of a world cup is the first round, and then a few choice games of the second round. Watching the giants fall or at least wobble, as well as some of the teams I don't like. Whilst I'm all for the "lesser" sides improving in quality, I hope that doesn't come at the cost of the passion they can express in their style of play.
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Interesting. So far 43% won’t be watching if national team not playing.
They will.
The media not having anything positive to say has influenced the mood. As well as England’s dire form this year.
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Do you think this is why Ivan Toni was not selected for the England squad
Brentford striker Ivan Toney has been charged by the Football Association with 232 alleged breaches of betting rules.
The alleged breaches took place between 25 February 2017 and 23 January 2021.
Toney, 26, has scored 10 Premier League goals this season but missed out on a place in the England World Cup squad.
Brentford said in a statement: "The club has been in discussion with Ivan and his legal representatives. Those conversations will continue privately."
The statement continued: "We will make no further comment until the matter has been completed."
Toney has until 24 November to respond to the FA charges.
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It does seem more than likely and might even be the reason he didn’t get a game in the last 2 nations league games
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Slightly off subject, but regarding Toney, im surprised just how well hes done. I cant say i was impressed with him when we used to play Peterborough.
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Prez, I can remember Toney playing for Scunny against us and at the time thought he was very average.
When I saw him a while later playing for Peterbro at the KM against us I changed my mind.
I thought he was the real deal, a proper CF and was a right handful for our defenders. From then I have always had him down as a potential PL player.
There was a time when I wanted Rovers to go in for him but when he was sold to Brentford (was it £5m) I realised that he was literally out of our league.
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On bbc news tonight. Another young father dies on sub standard scaffold platform. But it’s his fault according to Qatar govt.
#boycott World Cup
And it's also been in the news today that a young boy in England died due to the disgusting nature of his council flat after countless warnings any nobody in authority caring..... boycott and bid the UK make for the world cup?
Your analogy regarding this tragic death holds little water unless you can show me that thousands of people have died under similar circumstances and it’s been held as such in a court, in this country. I’ll save you the trouble. You can’t. It was a landmark ruling. It’s never been proved that mould in a house has directly contributed to a death prior to this.
And before you quote numbers , I’m aware that there are around only 30-40 sad deaths directly attributed to World Cup construction in Qatar. The figure for migrants deaths in the general construction industry over there is far far higher, into the thousands. The death of that 2 yr old is tragic. And it was avoidable. But it’s not in the same league as what’s happening in Qatar. And yes, we will never know the full truth around migrant deaths. But thousands are going there to work and not returning , unless it’s in a box.
The point was more to mock the we art holier than thou attitude that the west, particularly our media have, when judging others. No you're correct, migrant workers in Qatar should not be coming home in a box, but we're going to judge others when kids on our own country are starving? When migrants in UK are housed in squalor in what's basically a garden shed? Our police have been found to institutionally racists.....and not forgetting our very own "free" media phone tap dead people in order to get exclusives....
So really?? WE (our media) are going to judge others?
Yes we live in a much freer society, with far more rights, but the way everyone in the western world is going after Qatar without looking at themselves......it's almost as laughable as when I was at England v Hungary and England fans were chanting 'you racist s**m" at the away end
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Prez, I can remember Toney playing for Scunny against us and at the time thought he was very average.
When I saw him a while later playing for Peterbro at the KM against us I changed my mind.
I thought he was the real deal, a proper CF and was a right handful for our defenders. From then I have always had him down as a potential PL player.
There was a time when I wanted Rovers to go in for him but when he was sold to Brentford (was it £5m) I realised that he was literally out of our league.
Hope George Miller reads this somehow
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I’m a true football fan of my club. I’m afraid I associate our overrated obscenely overpaid national players, rightly or wrongly, with the greed of the Premier League, which I absolutely despise. I have no interest in this competition.
Would you despise the Rover’s players in 2028 when we are in the Premiership?
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I’m a true football fan of my club. I’m afraid I associate our overrated obscenely overpaid national players, rightly or wrongly, with the greed of the Premier League, which I absolutely despise. I have no interest in this competition.
Would you despise the Rover’s players in 2028 when we are in the Premiership?
You mean at the time when I've become a multi-billionaire, and am married to Cameron Diaz?
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I’m a true football fan of my club. I’m afraid I associate our overrated obscenely overpaid national players, rightly or wrongly, with the greed of the Premier League, which I absolutely despise. I have no interest in this competition.
Would you despise the Rover’s players in 2028 when we are in the Premiership?
Drfc as we know it, would cease to exist if they ever got to the Prem.
Getting to see them play for a start would be a bun fight for tickets.
Away games, forget it unless you are a season ticket holder. Probably of many years. Ticket prices? Even lowly Bournemouth want between £32 and £45 a ticket.
It’s not for me Ty. Thankfully it’s unlikely to happen in my life.
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Upton Rover - if DRFC ever get to the PL, I will not attend, it’s as simple as that. This league and its associated monetary greed has ruined football.
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The only possible way we would get to the Premier League would be if someone acquired us and pumped in literally hundreds of millions. If that happened, the club would be effectively dead anyway. So no fear, Rovers will never trouble the Premier League in our current form. Getting back to being a credible and competitive League One side would be a more realistic goal.
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I’m a true football fan of my club. I’m afraid I associate our overrated obscenely overpaid national players, rightly or wrongly, with the greed of the Premier League, which I absolutely despise. I have no interest in this competition.
Would you despise the Rover’s players in 2028 when we are in the Premiership?
You mean at the time when I've become a multi-billionaire, and am married to Cameron Diaz?
She would never leave me so that’s just your dream
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I’m a true football fan of my club. I’m afraid I associate our overrated obscenely overpaid national players, rightly or wrongly, with the greed of the Premier League, which I absolutely despise. I have no interest in this competition.
Would you despise the Rover’s players in 2028 when we are in the Premiership?
You mean at the time when I've become a multi-billionaire, and am married to Cameron Diaz?
She would never leave me so that’s just your dream
F*ck it then, I'll just have to make do with Ann Widdicombe.
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https://news.sky.com/story/qatar-world-cup-beer-could-be-banned-from-all-stadiums-12750052
Hosts making very unfootball demands.
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Looks like "confirmed" now
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I think they planned this all along, said they would allow alcohol, and now 48 hours before hand they ban it
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I'm looking forward to the Inquiry into how the hell that well known footballing country, known for its liberal attitudes, Qatar, was awarded the World Cup.
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This does look like a total disaster of a tournament. Not just bad, but a total disaster.
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Confirmed that Qatar have just banned the sale of alcohol at all stadia venues. Two days before the start of the tournament. That will please Budweiser, who had a big deal to sell their drinks there.
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Confirmed that Qatar have just banned the sale of alcohol at all stadia venues. Two days before the start of the tournament. That will please Budweiser, who had a big deal to sell their drinks there.
I hope they sue FIFA to the point where the corrupt organisation has to be revamped or even better replaced
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Confirmed that Qatar have just banned the sale of alcohol at all stadia venues. Two days before the start of the tournament. That will please Budweiser, who had a big deal to sell their drinks there.
I hope they sue FIFA to the point where the corrupt organisation has to be revamped or even better replaced
I reckon this was probably the plan all along and Budweiser were aware, paying less as a result.
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see the ban doesn't apply to the corporate areas where alcohol will still be served.
No surprise there !!
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Confirmed that Qatar have just banned the sale of alcohol at all stadia venues. Two days before the start of the tournament. That will please Budweiser, who had a big deal to sell their drinks there.
I hope they sue FIFA to the point where the corrupt organisation has to be revamped or even better replaced
I reckon this was probably the plan all along and Budweiser were aware, paying less as a result.
What's more disturbing is that the Qatari's have promised a number of item that directly affect the supporters who have travelled, if they can go back on this promise what else is going to change?
Not according to Budweisers twitter feed.
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see the ban doesn't apply to the corporate areas where alcohol will still be served.
No surprise there !!
Those corporate areas were not cheap, starting at £19k a pop.
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Still, those unlucky enough to be there can comfort themselves with a bottle of bud zero. Yummy.
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Tomorrows game at Colchester holds significantly more interest to me than anything happening in the footy world on sunday. And then the home game v Walsall.
Rovers on the up again.
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I'm looking forward to the Inquiry into how the hell that well known footballing country, known for its liberal attitudes, Qatar, was awarded the World Cup.
Have you seen the Netflix documentary looking at FIFA?
Its a 4 part documentary that goes into a lot of the detail surrounding the choices made.
Interesting that whilst they were discussing Jack Warner and Trinidad and Tobago qualifying for the 2006 WC in Germany I managed to catch a sight of my flag! Not the greatest picture I admit, but still pleased to see it.
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England and others playing the hypocrisy card by slating Qatar for its non acceptance of gay people in their country. I agree gay people should be treated with respect and not discriminated against
HYPOCRISY
I haven’t heard anyone from the England camp object to playing against Iran who have similar draconian laws. I don’t think that anyone appears to be objecting to Morocco, Ghana and Korea participating who also discriminate against the LGBT.
If you’re going to have principles let’s not be selective
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Tomorrows game at Colchester holds significantly more interest to me than anything happening in the footy world on sunday. And then the home game v Walsall.
Rovers on the up again.
Dead right, NR. Even more so now that we can all watch it tomorrow on iFollow.
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England and others playing the hypocrisy card by slating Qatar for its non acceptance of gay people in their country. I agree gay people should be treated with respect and not discriminated against
HYPOCRISY
I haven’t heard anyone from the England camp object to playing against Iran who have similar draconian laws. I don’t think that anyone appears to be objecting to Morocco, Ghana and Korea participating who also discriminate against the LGBT.
If you’re going to have principles let’s not be selective
There's millions in this country who share the same beliefs through the exact same law!
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I'm looking forward to the Inquiry into how the hell that well known footballing country, known for its liberal attitudes, Qatar, was awarded the World Cup.
Have you seen the Netflix documentary looking at FIFA?
Its a 4 part documentary that goes into a lot of the detail surrounding the choices made.
Interesting that whilst they were discussing Jack Warner and Trinidad and Tobago qualifying for the 2006 WC in Germany I managed to catch a sight of my flag! Not the greatest picture I admit, but still pleased to see it.
Is that you in the red frock SM, just above it?
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England and others playing the hypocrisy card by slating Qatar for its non acceptance of gay people in their country. I agree gay people should be treated with respect and not discriminated against
HYPOCRISY
I haven’t heard anyone from the England camp object to playing against Iran who have similar draconian laws. I don’t think that anyone appears to be objecting to Morocco, Ghana and Korea participating who also discriminate against the LGBT.
If you’re going to have principles let’s not be selective
There's millions in this country who share the same beliefs through the exact same law!
To be fair there's sadly quite a lot who don't believe in the same religion that share their beliefs in this country...
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Oh no!
It's Coming Home for Christmas!
https://youtu.be/ubRBLAHjkTo
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You could always watch the games at home with a beer and put two fingers up at Qatar.
The world’s gone mad just following a trail of greed.
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I'm looking forward to the Inquiry into how the hell that well known footballing country, known for its liberal attitudes, Qatar, was awarded the World Cup.
Have you seen the Netflix documentary looking at FIFA?
Its a 4 part documentary that goes into a lot of the detail surrounding the choices made.
Interesting that whilst they were discussing Jack Warner and Trinidad and Tobago qualifying for the 2006 WC in Germany I managed to catch a sight of my flag! Not the greatest picture I admit, but still pleased to see it.
Is that you in the red frock SM, just above it?
:thumbdown: ;)
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see the ban doesn't apply to the corporate areas where alcohol will still be served.
No surprise there !!
Those corporate areas were not cheap, starting at £19k a pop.
The price of admission to heaven, right there. Religion and state as they always are, corrupt. Not at all targetting Islam btw.
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see the ban doesn't apply to the corporate areas where alcohol will still be served.
No surprise there !!
Those corporate areas were not cheap, starting at £19k a pop.
That is expensive Martin.
If it’s £19k a pop I wonder how much a pint of beer is.
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The truth about FIFA is a compelling watch on Netflix. The extent of the corruption was akin to a Mexican drug cartel, the FBI said. Fascinating how it started back in 1970 with adidas handing out bungs to the then FIFA president.
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see the ban doesn't apply to the corporate areas where alcohol will still be served.
No surprise there !!
Those corporate areas were not cheap, starting at £19k a pop.
That is expensive Martin.
If it’s £19k a pop I wonder how much a pint of beer is.
In the official areas its about £11 - £12 a pint, but some of the guys I know are telling me they can get it for about £6-£8 in various places.
Not sure if you can read this, but the temporary accommodation that fans are using costs £370 a night and the aircon isn't working!
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/bf3155d8-65f5-11ed-9c3b-2d9184d0076f?shareToken=94d5315170943f24e43cbb5c46fbc774&fbclid=IwAR3G7u6IfWR50fP6myjW51G-4jOakKFYQdZkibo0OklBhT7Hw7RsT8DujZI
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f**king hell, and we get stressed going to Oakwell.
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Just out of interest how many of you have actually been to the regions in question? This is my tenth year in Saudi Arabia, I could bet untold amounts that the Saudi I know is very different to the Saudi some of you perceive! This is not to say its perfect, but it will be way different to what people think of it, usually generated via media and so on. I have worked around construction here in KSA/UAE and Bahrain I know how it works. Some of it isn’t as the UK but the situation and conditions aren’t different to when the the building boom was in Germany in the 80s and alot of UK construction workers went there for a fast buck. Yes the workers don’t get the salaries you would expect in the UK, but its all relative. The people I know and many I call friends, are happy here as they earn multiple times more than they would at home. Many are classed as rich back home from the salaries earned here. The world works alot different than the Uk and thinks differently. If you think these workers are poorly paid and mistreated, you should check out the gold markets at the end of the month when salaries arrive!!
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You could always watch the games at home with a beer and put two fingers up at Qatar.
The world’s gone mad just following a trail of greed.
Or better still have a beer and watch something else as I will be doing
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https://news.sky.com/story/fifa-chief-gianni-infantino-hits-out-at-qatar-criticism-saying-european-countries-should-instead-be-apologising-for-the-next-3000-years-12750765
Infantino getting worried about his backhander from the Quataris?
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Will you be cheering on Wales in their games vs USA and Iran? I doubt the Welsh will do that for us.
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Will you be cheering on Wales in their games vs USA and Iran? I doubt the Welsh will do that for us.
They should be. England dropping points v those 2 is not good for them in the race to finish second behind us.
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https://news.sky.com/story/fifa-chief-gianni-infantino-hits-out-at-qatar-criticism-saying-european-countries-should-instead-be-apologising-for-the-next-3000-years-12750765
Infantino getting worried about his backhander from the Quataris?
Probably. I noticed all those fans who had their travel and accommodation paid for by the Qatari's have had their daily allowances cut for not saying positive things!
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Padge I think you’re taking a lot for granted. You’re more confident than me that England will win the group.
The Welsh have passion and the USA are not garbage and ranked 16 in the world. Iran will be suited to the climate and may take a point off someone
We are ranked 5 in the world. Our build up hasn’t been great. I hope they win the group but I don’t think it’s a forgone conclusion
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All the talk about arm bands I see has become futile.
The threat of being booked is more important than the whole point of the thing. And fifa have called this just within the last 24hrs. w**kers.
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Looks like donny owls are out there.
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Anyone not interested is missing a good performance
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I hear the attendance at todays game is a mere 23000 below capacity. Yes, you read that right, twenty three thousand!
Utterly utterly shocking.
And I blame FIFA and Qatar.
The location, and the cost of stuff there has put so many off going.
Such a shame.
A global tournament clearly not being supported by those around the globe. And I fully understand why.
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Wow went to var for the last goal but not maguires
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I hear the attendance at todays game is a mere 23000 below capacity. Yes, you read that right, twenty three thousand!
Utterly utterly shocking.
And I blame FIFA and Qatar.
The location, and the cost of stuff there has put so many off going.
Such a shame.
A global tournament clearly not being supported by those around the globe. And I fully understand why.
Priced out and made to feel unwelcome
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How can VAR get involved for Iran’s second but not on the Rugby tackle on Maguire
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Wow went to var for the last goal but not maguires
Shocking, Maguires shouldn’t have needed var it was that blatant
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I hear the attendance at todays game is a mere 23000 below capacity. Yes, you read that right, twenty three thousand!
Utterly utterly shocking.
And I blame FIFA and Qatar.
The location, and the cost of stuff there has put so many off going.
Such a shame.
A global tournament clearly not being supported by those around the globe. And I fully understand why.
Stadium is less than half full for the Dutch game
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Excellent performance that, from start to finish. I know it was only Iran, but I have seen England struggle in past against lesser teams. Particularly in that first game (so many times) Bellingham and Saka were outstanding. The depth of the squad will also be a huge asset. Less pressure out there as well will go in Englands favour.
Let’s face it! It’s already come home :chair: :santa:
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England were good. Var was useless, FIFA corrupt.
Thought the game was a bit flat but England coasted really. Goals very soft that Iran scored but England look a decent and confident side which has always been the biggest issue.
Senegal-holland is a decent game.
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I didn’t know that Snoop Dogg is the manager of Senegal
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England were good. Var was useless, FIFA corrupt.
Thought the game was a bit flat but England coasted really. Goals very soft that Iran scored but England look a decent and confident side which has always been the biggest issue.
Senegal-holland is a decent game.
Until the second half. We basically are are going to the quarter finals without even having to try. Neither of these 2 teams are anything to worry about.
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The official attendance at the Senegal match is 1700 above the actual capacity lol.
I hear it was never more than three quarters full.
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The official attendance at the Senegal match is 1700 above the actual capacity lol.
I hear it was never more than three quarters full.
The commentary said it was less than half full at kick off but I doubt there will be many grains of truth coming from those in charge
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This Wales team is awful
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Basically hope to win the ball and the American's defence be high enough up the pitch for Dan James to run in behind.
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I think both teams are poor and both will struggle against Iran
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The refereeing’s a farce, stopping games for none head injuries now
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Not sure I've ever heard more sickeningly biased commentary than in this USA vs Wales match.
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What is going on in this World Cup with all the added time??
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What is going on in this World Cup with all the added time??
Adding on the time wasting apparently
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Nothing there for England to fear
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Wales were massively improved in the second half.
Moore was the difference.
Good to see no one slagging off England for a change.
It should be remembered that Iran are ranked 20th in the world and had only lost twice in twenty odd matches coming into the tournament.
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Not sure I've ever heard more sickeningly biased commentary than in this USA vs Wales match.
Cmon. Its no difference to when England play. It would be no different if it was the Scots or the Irish. I'd hate to have seen it on a American channel.
Did you watch the pundits discussing after England's win, that was cringy. Richards talking like England just laid Argentina to the sword. Usual crap during tournaments, 1 win and World beaters again.
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Iran team refuse to sing national anthem.
I’m sure the ethics gestapo will be waiting for them upon their return to the Motherland.
Off with their heads !
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Not sure I've ever heard more sickeningly biased commentary than in this USA vs Wales match.
You mean you've never watched England on television?
Unless you were watching this game on S4C in which case fair enough.
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Wales were massively improved in the second half.
Moore was the difference.
Good to see no one slagging off England for a change.
It should be remembered that Iran are ranked 20th in the world and had only lost twice in twenty odd matches coming into the tournament.
England played really well, great to see anome confident attacking and you can only beat what’s in front of you but Iran looked a really poor team, some of the defending at times was shambolic.
I don’t think the rankings can have much credibility if Iran are considered a better side than Serbia, Sweden, Japan, Norway, Egypt etc. Hungary are 36th and the gulf between them and Iran based on the Nations League games is enormous.
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I know they scored, but against decent sides Foden and Grealish will be more effective than Saka and Sterling.
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I know they scored, but against decent sides Foden and Grealish will be more effective than Saka and Sterling.
Yesterdays front 3 has a good balance to it.
Sterling had the raw pace and good movement that Kane plays so well with.
Foden and Grealish don’t really have anything that Saka doesn’t in my opinion. For me Saka is the best player out of the 3.
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Foden is superb. Grealish does tend to enjoy running into dead ends.
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I think the right 2 started yesterday. Saka has been outstanding for Arsenal this season, and although Sterling has had a difficult time at Chelsea he links up really well with Kane and was arguably our best player at the Euros.
Foden has been superb for City but never really turned it on for England and until he shows that can’t be considered an automatic starter, whilst Grealish is probably better suited to coming on as a sub given his ability to run at defences and buy free kicks (priceless given the set piece strengths in this team).
All will have a role to play at some stage though and it’s great to have those options (not to mention Rashford and Maddison!)
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For me, as brilliant as Foden is I think that Saka has the better end product.
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Iran team refuse to sing national anthem.
I’m sure the ethics gestapo will be waiting for them upon their return to the Motherland.
Off with their heads !
Most of the England team were singing God Save The Queen. Off with their heads! :lol:
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This Wales team is awful
They were, Filo, it was like watching Rovers up against a bottom of the table side. Having just seen the England game the difference in quality was stark. I turned it off at half time.
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This Wales team is awful
They were, Filo, it was like watching Rovers up against a bottom of the table side. Having just seen the England game the difference in quality was stark. I turned it off at half time.
Whoops we got beat 3. 0 where the bottom of the table side were better. We can only judge Iran after they’ve played Wales. There 20th position could be false has they do not play European sides
so loosing 2 out of 24 could be misleading
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I’ve mentioned it on a different thread. Does anyone else think it’s a bit of a concern that we conceded 2 goals to a team like Iran.
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This Wales team is awful
For context, it isn't, but yes that first half last night was the worst i've seen us play in years. Far too cautious against a US team that was no great shakes.
Think Wales only hope of going through now is that England score so many goals against the USA they get disillusioned with football and don't bother turning up against Wales.
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I’ve mentioned it on a different thread. Does anyone else think it’s a bit of a concern that we conceded 2 goals to a team like Iran.
No. The nature of the goals weren't anything to worry about. Their first was an extremely well taken first time strike from a pin point pass. The second, a penalty was quite harsh and no more than a consolation originated from the VAR officials.
Far more in the game to be happy about.
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Taken off Twitter.
“In the 3 World Cup 2022 matches before USA-Wales, the official attendances have been 67,372 (in a stadium with capacity of 60,000); 45,334 (in a stadium holding 40,000) and 41,721 (in a stadium holding 40,000).
Amazing, not least given all the empty seats.”
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I watched 20 first half mins of Wales Vs USA. It was everything that is awful about so much modern football.
One side with absolutely zero attacking intention. One side dominating possession with absolutely zero ability to hurt the opposing side.
Utterly sterile "managed" football. Players well drilled and professional, of course, but dreadful as a spectacle. No spontenaity. No moment of individual genius. Just players carrying out orders.
Watching chess would have been more exhilarating.
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Taken off Twitter.
“In the 3 World Cup 2022 matches before USA-Wales, the official attendances have been 67,372 (in a stadium with capacity of 60,000); 45,334 (in a stadium holding 40,000) and 41,721 (in a stadium holding 40,000).
Amazing, not least given all the empty seats.”
Human rights controversies aside, the obvious amount of empty seats for this event will be a big talking point as this event drags on. 23000 empty seats for the England game alone .
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If there are thousands of empty seats but FIFA says the stadium is overbooked, are there any empty seats?
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Wales were much better when Kieffer Moore came on.
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I can only stomach watching the 90 mins of football itself and none of the punditry, which is something I've never done before at a tournament. It's just pure cringe and political
Like yesterday itv trying to make headlines out of someone getting banned from taking a rainbow hat into the ground, you knew that would happen before so just dont do it :headbang:
What an atmosphere in the stadium at this Arg Vs Saudi game
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I can only stomach watching the 90 mins of football itself and none of the punditry, which is something I've never done before at a tournament. It's just pure cringe and political
Like yesterday itv trying to make headlines out of someone getting banned from taking a rainbow hat into the ground, you knew that would happen before so just dont do it :headbang:
What an atmosphere in the stadium at this Arg Vs Saudi game
How about before this morning's game, they started telling a story of a Saudi fan who'd walked a thousand miles across the desert to watch his team? They went to their reporter on the story who instead talked about the politics between the two & other surrounding countries.
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Is the coverage of the Qatar and Abu Dhabi F1 like this? My guess is no as football is always subject to more criticism.
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good point nc
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Was the politics due to the recently lifted blockade of Qatar by the rest of the GCC for supporting terrorist activities?
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Is the coverage of the Qatar and Abu Dhabi F1 like this? My guess is no as football is always subject to more criticism.
Don’t forget Bahrain
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Was the politics due to the recently lifted blockade of Qatar by the rest of the GCC for supporting terrorist activities?
Yes, then about how the saudi head (I think) was invited into the Royal box for the opening ceremony.
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Was is it with these attendances. The Argentina Saudi game is 8000 over the capacity of the feckin ground. Wtf?
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Unbelievable Jeff
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The big question is, will Roy keane lamp souness before this tournament is over?
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That Saudi result, and seeing the stands now full of Tunisia fans, where arguably they'd had much less of a chance to travel if it had been elsewhere, show's it's doesn't matter one bit where in the world or at what time of day the world cup is..... finally, football as a spectacle is dong the talking
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I can only stomach watching the 90 mins of football itself and none of the punditry, which is something I've never done before at a tournament. It's just pure cringe and political
Like yesterday itv trying to make headlines out of someone getting banned from taking a rainbow hat into the ground, you knew that would happen before so just dont do it :headbang:
What an atmosphere in the stadium at this Arg Vs Saudi game
How about before this morning's game, they started telling a story of a Saudi fan who'd walked a thousand miles across the desert to watch his team? They went to their reporter on the story who instead talked about the politics between the two & other surrounding countries.
That's all the media do these days, segregate and divide. It still boils my p**s that those poor girls played their hearts out to win the euros only to be told they're too white.
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It still boils my p**s that those poor girls played their hearts out to win the euros only to be told they're too white.
This absolutely did not happen.
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It didn’t happen like that no, but there was still no need to question it in the first place
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Is Lionel Messi the most overrated sportsman in history? Discuss.
Yes excellent in a club team built around him with teammates he trains with day in day out but he has never, ever justified the OTT hype the football media place on him at every World Cup he's played in.
Quite why myriad football pundits seemingly expected him to inspire a rank average Argentina team to a world cup win when he's close to 40 when he was never able to at his peak is beyond me.
As for the overhyping of Argentina (and Brazil) at every World Cup when neither as done owt for 30 years in Argentina's case (bar one final achieved in South America using defensive tactics) and 20 years in Brazil's case - again beyond me.
The best teams in the world are European and have been for 2 decades - only the baking hot climate at World Cups give any other teams any realistic chance of winning. British football pundits are clueless to a man (and woman).
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No, I’d give that honour to Neymar
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It didn’t happen like that no, but there was still no need to question it in the first place
There's absolutely every right to question it. That's how change happens. 'There are no non-white people in this England team, why is that?' was/is a perfectly reasonable question to ask. By asking it you can then see whether there are additional barriers being put in place that are preventing non-white women from progressing to that level. And if there are you can work to address them, and if it turns out that there aren't then great. But the only way you identify barriers to groups of people is by asking exactly these questions.
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It absolutely did happen like that, even literally at half time in one of their games when they were winning the beeb flashed over to a documentary about it with someone saying "I can't be inspired..."
To suggest that a white person can't be a role model for a non white person was and is nothing short of disgusting and divisive...two of my all time sporting hero's (as a white person) are Lewis Hamilton and Mo Farah. Imagine me saying they can't be because they're not my colour
It's childish, it's divisive and it's disgusting. There's been many many non white female players at international level but just because there happens to not be any now it's "racist". The pathetic default reaction.
Oh well, they obviously chose the best players because they won
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It absolutely did happen like that, even literally at half time in one of their games when they were winning the beeb flashed over to a documentary about it with someone saying "I can't be inspired..."
To suggest that a white person can't be a role model for a non white person was and is nothing short of disgusting and divisive...two of my all time sporting hero's (as a white person) are Lewis Hamilton and Mo Farah. Imagine me saying they can't be because they're not my colour
It's childish, it's divisive and it's disgusting. There's been many many non white female players at international level but just because there happens to not be any now it's "racist". The pathetic default reaction.
Oh well, they obviously chose the best players because they won
No it didn't happen like that. Not one person criticised the England players for being White. And no-one was suggesting that the best players hadn't been picked. I also don't recall anyone asking the questions suggesting that it was racist in anyway.
The question was why the make up of the current squad was so White when previous squads hadn't been. It's a reasonable question to ask, especially as the nature of women's football has changed so much in the last decade, because it then led to questions as to whether the WSL model had moved routes into top clubs away/out of reach from girls from poorer families.
No-one was suggesting that a White footballer couldn't be an inspiration for a non-White person. But if you're a young girl of, I don't know, let's say British-Pakistani origin, and you love football and you love the England team, of course you're going to love Mary Earps and Ella Toone, but at some point you're going to go 'why do none of these players look like me?'. Again, it's a reasonable question to ask. And by asking it you can identify if there are things preventing British-Asian girls from getting to that level.
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The Bristol City coach Anita Asante puts this across much better and most certainly with greater insight than me, here in this article (https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/jul/18/england-women-squad-euro-2022-whiteness-diversity).
A key quote within this piece being...
'There is clearly a problem – but it has nothing to do with Wiegman’s Euro 2022 team sheets and everything to do with the pathways leading players to the England squad.'
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Saudi have announced a national holiday for all sectors tomorrow in celebration for todays win.
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DRFC. AJA
You’re 100% right. It’s all political and all about the pundits
I’ve found it all nauseating for ages. Pompous self opinionated and full of it. I find most of the commentators are the same. I just wish there was an option to watch the games with just crowd noise and none of the mind numbing commentary
For me the worst is Martin Tyler.
Im quite sure that in years gone by the likes of John Motson, Barry Davies and Coleman were better than this lot.
It’s actually spoiling football
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DRFC. AJA
You’re 100% right. It’s all political and all about the pundits
I’ve found it all nauseating for ages. Pompous self opinionated and full of it. I find most of the commentators are the same. I just wish there was an option to watch the games with just crowd noise and none of the mind numbing commentary
For me the worst is Martin Tyler.
Im quite sure that in years gone by the likes of John Motson, Barry Davies and Coleman were better than this lot.
It’s actually spoiling football
Dead right, Phil, and the greatest of them all was Kenneth Wolstenholme; "Some people are on the pitch, they think it's all over........"
You know the rest.
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All these glitzy half full stadiums. Got me reminiscing of some a little different.
Miss this old girl .
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I’ve never really understood Martin Tyler’s success. I thought he was crap when he was commentating for Yorkshire TV back in the 70s.
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Amazing how many people who don't like politics in sport are making political comments about how sport should be covered and commented on...
...Jeff
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The Bristol City coach Anita Asante puts this across much better and most certainly with greater insight than me, here in this article (https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/jul/18/england-women-squad-euro-2022-whiteness-diversity).
A key quote within this piece being...
'There is clearly a problem – but it has nothing to do with Wiegman’s Euro 2022 team sheets and everything to do with the pathways leading players to the England squad.'
The author says that there were only 3 non-white players in the squad of 23 and uses this as proof of a 'diversity problem'. As readers, it seems like we're supposed to just accept this without explanation.
But how many non-white players would one reasonably expect to see in an England squad? Based on demographics, it's probably around 4 or 5.
The author must've had a much larger number in mind to warrant declaring a 'diversity problem' in football on the back of there being only 3 non-white England players at one particular snapshot in time.
I don't doubt that there are problems, but this isn't evidence. It's ridiculous.
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The Bristol City coach Anita Asante puts this across much better and most certainly with greater insight than me, here in this article (https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/jul/18/england-women-squad-euro-2022-whiteness-diversity).
A key quote within this piece being...
'There is clearly a problem – but it has nothing to do with Wiegman’s Euro 2022 team sheets and everything to do with the pathways leading players to the England squad.'
The author says that there were only 3 non-white players in the squad of 23 and uses this as proof of a 'diversity problem'. As readers, it seems like we're supposed to just accept this without explanation.
But how many non-white players would one reasonably expect to see in an England squad? Based on demographics, it's probably around 4 or 5.
The author must've had a much larger number in mind to warrant declaring a 'diversity problem' in football on the back of there being only 3 non-white England players at one particular snapshot in time.
I don't doubt that there are problems, but this isn't evidence. It's ridiculous.
Pliskin, in your first sentence you are actually agreeing with the author, that it is not about the current team sheet. She then goes on to talk about the pathways for non-whites to get into the squad, you then hazard a guess about what the author is thinking and further you cast doubt on whether there are problems ............. bingo full house.
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is anyone really suggesting that any top sports team manager like the woman’s football team manager purposely goes out to select white players over others. It’s a nonsense
Sport is all about success and that means that the best people are selected. Look at the GB athletics squad. The best people are selected because they are faster stronger better at their sport. No one cares about what colour they are or their background. Most people are happy that the relay teams and others are highly successful and win medals. Most football supporters don’t care who their players are as long as they play for their clubs and good enough
If the very successful woman’s England football team squad was 50/50% would anyone have cared NO
most sensible thinking people were just happy to see an England or British team being successful
British sport would be knackered without non white sportsman and woman. Look at the England football team. Take away the non white players and the squad is at best average
Some people create issues when there really aren’t any and fuel problems
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''is anyone really suggesting that any top sports team manager like the woman’s football team manager purposely goes out to select white players over others''
Nope, absolutely not, zero, nil, never ever, where have you heard this phil?
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''is anyone really suggesting that any top sports team manager like the woman’s football team manager purposely goes out to select white players over others''
Nope, absolutely not, zero, nil, never ever, where have you heard this phil?
It’s obviously not true. But I think maybe when things like “the right pathways aren’t available” are said some people take it as that. This seems very vague and ambiguous statement to me.
We are a very tolerant and diverse country. Now that more funding and spotlight is on the growing womens game, people of colour will come in to it naturally. As they have done before.
What pathways are in place for people or colour in athletics that aren’t for football? I think the suggestion that every racial discrepancy is due to racism should be questioned.
We are pretty much a society that doesn’t see race now bar a few idiots.
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''I think the suggestion that every racial discrepancy is due to racism should be questioned''
Where have you heard that nc?
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''I think the suggestion that every racial discrepancy is due to racism should be questioned''
Where have you heard that nc?
I was just talking generally. The mens game has a lot more opportunities for people of colour because it is far bigger.
As the womens game gets bigger, more opportunities will naturally arise. It’s not necessarily because the system is designed to work against certain people as was insinuated by the original pundit’s comment. It doesn’t need to be made about race.
For example GB athletes in track and field are majority black but that isn’t because of some sort of systemic problem against other ethnicities.
When the issue is forced on stuff like this it brings out the discussion of race and the thought of division again, when we should be moving past that. Like I said, there are only a very small minority of actual racists in this country.
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Souness said on tv as a pundit, the World Cup should not be here. Well Mr souness why are you there being paid as a pundit and getting free accommodation? If you don’t agree, don’t be there
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''When the issue is forced on stuff like this it brings out the discussion of race and the thought of division again, when we should be moving past that. Like I said, there are only a very small minority of actual racists in this country''
Do you have any supporting evidence for this or the rest of your comment nc?
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I was just talking generally. The mens game has a lot more opportunities for people of colour because it is far bigger.
As the womens game gets bigger, more opportunities will naturally arise. It’s not necessarily because the system is designed to work against certain people as was insinuated by the original pundit’s comment. It doesn’t need to be made about race.
if you read that article by Anita Asante she goes on to highlight why that isn't necessarily the case for the women's game at the top level.
No-one is suggesting the system is designed to work against certain groups, but that this may have happened indirectly by the way in which it's grown. So the rise of the women's game has seen the top level clubs move out of the towns and cities to bases in the suburbs. This then impacts young women and girls in the inner-cities who are less likely to be able to afford to get to these new bases; a high percentage of these kids are likely to be non-White.
So by asking that question about why aren't there that many non White players in the England squad, and the WSL as a whole, you identify a barrier that's there for a big swathe of working class kids of all races that can be addressed to make the England squad more diverse. Diversity being about more than just race.
As I said further up this thread; the reason for asking these questions is not to divide, but to ensure that sports are as inclusive as possible.
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I was just talking generally. The mens game has a lot more opportunities for people of colour because it is far bigger.
As the womens game gets bigger, more opportunities will naturally arise. It’s not necessarily because the system is designed to work against certain people as was insinuated by the original pundit’s comment. It doesn’t need to be made about race.
if you read that article by Anita Asante she goes on to highlight why that isn't necessarily the case for the women's game at the top level.
No-one is suggesting the system is designed to work against certain groups, but that this may have happened indirectly by the way in which it's grown. So the rise of the women's game has seen the top level clubs move out of the towns and cities to bases in the suburbs. This then impacts young women and girls in the inner-cities who are less likely to be able to afford to get to these new bases; a high percentage of these kids are likely to be non-White.
So by asking that question about why aren't there that many non White players in the England squad, and the WSL as a whole, you identify a barrier that's there for a big swathe of working class kids of all races that can be addressed to make the England squad more diverse. Diversity being about more than just race.
As I said further up this thread; the reason for asking these questions is not to divide, but to ensure that sports are as inclusive as possible.
Spot on, I agree with all of that.
I think was it Elidh Barbour who made the original comment on tv? None of the above was referenced and it was taken by some in the wrong way.
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Harry Kane potentially injured having a scan on the ankle. Didn’t look good in that bad challenge on him.
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Not looking good for Kane but we should be able to cope without him for the rest of the group stage as long as we play with the same intensity .
Wilson and even Rashford can do a job in place of Kane.
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I stand by what I said that it's divisive. You cannot simply connect the dots so easily without any valid reason....many white footballers in this current "intake" does not equal racism. And it's so sad that this is always the default reaction and the divisive lefties will say "well it's worth the discussion". No it isn't
Hardly any white people represent UK at track and field....equals racism against whites and they're being held back
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Souness said on tv as a pundit, the World Cup should not be here. Well Mr souness why are you there being paid as a pundit and getting free accommodation? If you don’t agree, don’t be there
Aside from the two very obvious reasons (worker conditions and gay rights) there's no reason why this shouldn't be held in Qatar. All the other criticisms such as lack of beer, kick off times, them not being a footballing region are invalid and bordering on islamaphobia for me.
Why on earth should the people of middle east not have the world's best tournament...have you seen the colour and chanting those supporters have bought to the stadiums now it's on their doorstep, how many youngsters in those regions are going to be inspired to play
To argue it shouldn't be there because they aren't a football region you're basically saying "we invented the game so it should suit us" which is pretty archaic viewpoint
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I stand by what I said that it's divisive. You cannot simply connect the dots so easily without any valid reason....many white footballers in this current "intake" does not equal racism. And it's so sad that this is always the default reaction and the divisive lefties will say "well it's worth the discussion". No it isn't
Hardly any white people represent UK at track and field....equals racism against whites and they're being held back
Ever read Don Quixote?
Tilting at windmills.
Literally no-one of any importance is saying that the preponderance of white players in the team is some racist plot. Why do you frame it like that?
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Not looking good for Kane but we should be able to cope without him for the rest of the group stage as long as we play with the same intensity .
Wilson and even Rashford can do a job in place of Kane.
We'd have to be set up differently with either of those replacing Kane though. For years, we've all been tearing our hair out at how deep Harry has dropped for England, finally we have others going beyond him & getting on the end of his play. I don't think it's any coincidence we got 6 without him being on the scoresheet the other day, he's a great false nine, or whatever you want to call it.
Like you say, I'm sure our progression through the group doesn't hinge on him now.
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Souness said on tv as a pundit, the World Cup should not be here. Well Mr souness why are you there being paid as a pundit and getting free accommodation? If you don’t agree, don’t be there
Aside from the two very obvious reasons (worker conditions and gay rights) there's no reason why this shouldn't be held in Qatar. All the other criticisms such as lack of beer, kick off times, them not being a footballing region are invalid and bordering on islamaphobia for me.
Why on earth should the people of middle east not have the world's best tournament...have you seen the colour and chanting those supporters have bought to the stadiums now it's on their doorstep, how many youngsters in those regions are going to be inspired to play
To argue it shouldn't be there because they aren't a football region you're basically saying "we invented the game so it should suit us" which is pretty archaic viewpoint
As I live in the region I can say the MENA area is very much a football region. Not just the premiership but all European leagues are followed. The sports channels are dominated by football here. Ok the local standards are not as high as Europe, but they still get strong support. It’s definitely the dominant sport that’s followed.
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is anyone really suggesting that any top sports team manager like the woman’s football team manager purposely goes out to select white players over others. It’s a nonsense
Sport is all about success and that means that the best people are selected. Look at the GB athletics squad. The best people are selected because they are faster stronger better at their sport. No one cares about what colour they are or their background. Most people are happy that the relay teams and others are highly successful and win medals. Most football supporters don’t care who their players are as long as they play for their clubs and good enough
If the very successful woman’s England football team squad was 50/50% would anyone have cared NO
most sensible thinking people were just happy to see an England or British team being successful
British sport would be knackered without non white sportsman and woman. Look at the England football team. Take away the non white players and the squad is at best average
Some people create issues when there really aren’t any and fuel problems
I agree Phil, no-one has suggested the England womens' football team manager (or any other top level manager in this country) picks white players over others.
I also agree that some people are creating issues where there aren't any and fueling problems.
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The Bristol City coach Anita Asante puts this across much better and most certainly with greater insight than me, here in this article (https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/jul/18/england-women-squad-euro-2022-whiteness-diversity).
A key quote within this piece being...
'There is clearly a problem – but it has nothing to do with Wiegman’s Euro 2022 team sheets and everything to do with the pathways leading players to the England squad.'
The author says that there were only 3 non-white players in the squad of 23 and uses this as proof of a 'diversity problem'. As readers, it seems like we're supposed to just accept this without explanation.
But how many non-white players would one reasonably expect to see in an England squad? Based on demographics, it's probably around 4 or 5.
The author must've had a much larger number in mind to warrant declaring a 'diversity problem' in football on the back of there being only 3 non-white England players at one particular snapshot in time.
I don't doubt that there are problems, but this isn't evidence. It's ridiculous.
Pliskin, in your first sentence you are actually agreeing with the author, that it is not about the current team sheet. She then goes on to talk about the pathways for non-whites to get into the squad, you then hazard a guess about what the author is thinking and further you cast doubt on whether there are problems ............. bingo full house.
What are you getting at?
The author quite rightly doesn't question the manager's squad / team selection. I never suggested otherwise.
However, the article explicitly says 'there is clearly a problem' after observing that of England's 23 best players, only 3 happen to be non-white. There is a clear negative link being made here.
I'm asking why this is being used as evidence of a problem.
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Let's bring the sanity of statistics into this debate. www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/populationestimates/articles/populationestimatesbyethnicgroupandreligionenglandandwales/2019
In 2019 84.8% of the population of England (and Wales) was White. 3.5% of the population was Black.
Therefore in a wholly White/Black squad you'd expect 1 black player in the 23 (actually 0.9) and 0 black players in the starting 11 (actually 0.4).
Including those whose ethnicity is categorised as Mixed by the ONS the numbers would move to 1 (1.4) black/mixed race player in the squad and 1 (0.6) black/mixed race player in the starting 11.
Anybody claiming that the Black population is underrepresented in the England women's (or men's) football squads are clearly completely wrong.
Far more pertinent is the question as to why there are no British Asian footballers in either the men's or women's England football squads given that they make up 8% of the population.
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Addendum
Given I can barely think of more than a handful of British Asian professional footballers not just currently but historically may I suggest the obvious that their under-representation in the England women's football squad is due to cultural reasons and not a lack of pathways or relative deprivation.
And therefore that any perceived under-representation of ethnic minorities in total in the squad (given the relatively high % of British Asians vs other ethnic groups in the country) is down to the same reasoning.
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Belgium being outclassed by Canada. Courtois saved a penalty as well.
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Ha. Soon as that posted Belgium go 1 up.
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The Bristol City coach Anita Asante puts this across much better and most certainly with greater insight than me, here in this article (https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/jul/18/england-women-squad-euro-2022-whiteness-diversity).
A key quote within this piece being...
'There is clearly a problem – but it has nothing to do with Wiegman’s Euro 2022 team sheets and everything to do with the pathways leading players to the England squad.'
The author says that there were only 3 non-white players in the squad of 23 and uses this as proof of a 'diversity problem'. As readers, it seems like we're supposed to just accept this without explanation.
But how many non-white players would one reasonably expect to see in an England squad? Based on demographics, it's probably around 4 or 5.
The author must've had a much larger number in mind to warrant declaring a 'diversity problem' in football on the back of there being only 3 non-white England players at one particular snapshot in time.
I don't doubt that there are problems, but this isn't evidence. It's ridiculous.
Pliskin, in your first sentence you are actually agreeing with the author, that it is not about the current team sheet. She then goes on to talk about the pathways for non-whites to get into the squad, you then hazard a guess about what the author is thinking and further you cast doubt on whether there are problems ............. bingo full house.
What are you getting at?
The author quite rightly doesn't question the manager's squad / team selection. I never suggested otherwise.
However, the article explicitly says 'there is clearly a problem' after observing that of England's 23 best players, only 3 happen to be non-white. There is a clear negative link being made here.
I'm asking why this is being used as evidence of a problem.
''I don't doubt that there are problems, but this isn't evidence. It's ridiculous''
Why not if the pathways to playing are not there for some?
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What a delight Canada were to watch tonight. Some brilliant football and totally dominated the Belgium team. Shame they couldn't hit a cows arse with a banjo.
The one result so far this tournament where I think the winners did not deserve to win
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Branton you are being far too sensible for some people. Far far too sensible.
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Addendum
Given I can barely think of more than a handful of British Asian professional footballers not just currently but historically may I suggest the obvious that their under-representation in the England women's football squad is due to cultural reasons and not a lack of pathways or relative deprivation.
And therefore that any perceived under-representation of ethnic minorities in total in the squad (given the relatively high % of British Asians vs other ethnic groups in the country) is down to the same reasoning.
Please provide some data that supports what you say Branton
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This cultural problem could be holding a few women back though.
''Mark Sampson: FA sorry over race remarks to Eniola Aluko & Drew Spence''
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/41617223
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Let's bring the sanity of statistics into this debate. www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/populationestimates/articles/populationestimatesbyethnicgroupandreligionenglandandwales/2019
Fair enough, if the question were 'is the racial make up of the England women's team directly comparable with the racial make up of England?' then these statistics would be relevant... but it isn't.
The question of why aren't/weren't there any non-White players in the England team was being asked because football IS popular among non-White women and girls, and there are a great number of non-White women and girls playing the game in England, and indeed have been many in the England team in the past.
So, as touched on in previous posts, what's then being asked is 'is there a reason for this?' 'is there a barrier in place somewhere along the way from participation in football to playing football at the top level?' Turns out there could well be and it's a barrier that could affect a large number of girls and young women from working class towns and inner cities regardless of race.
To come back to other points raised above. If from the start this came from someone saying, 'there are no Black players in the England team, that's racist', then people would be absolutely right to call out this statement as ridiculous and divisive. Because it absolutely would be.
But that's not what's been said, or discussed. It's a conversation of inclusivity in top level women's football that's been brought about through non-White women and girls saying 'there isn't anyone in this team who looks like me, why is that?'. And if that ensuing conversation leads to more women and girls from low income families being able to make it to the top then that can surely only be a good thing.
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And the reason I keep asking for data and proof is to stop tropes developing that some are all too ready to believe and repeat.
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What a delight Canada were to watch tonight. Some brilliant football and totally dominated the Belgium team. Shame they couldn't hit a cows arse with a banjo.
The one result so far this tournament where I think the winners did not deserve to win
Very proud of the performance of the team yesterday; hopefully similar performances against Morocco and Croatia!
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To lighten the mood a little did anyone see the name of the German manager - Hansi Flick
Allo Allo anyone :lol:
Also BST's comments on tilting at windmills reminded me of the attached Dutch (once under long term Spanish occupation) traffic sign :lol:
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How many other sports would hold their World Championships in a country that has no real connection with their sport?
It lays bare the pure commercialism to which the modern game is firmly anchored.
I'm not sure I entirely agree with the first line. You couldn't really say Japan and South Korea, or even South Africa, really have much of a connection with the sport. Sure, they play the game there at a professional level, but none are really footballing powerhouses. Why should a country that isn't traditionally connected with the sport not be allowed to host a tournament, if it wins the right to do so legitimately, of course?
Whilst I cannot say I have ever lived in any of the 3 countries mentioned it is a fact that South Korea have played in 10 World Cup finals, Japan 7 and South Africa where football is played probably more widely than rugby, 3. I have not done exhaustive research, but it is clear from what may be gleaned from reliable sources that all three countries have football leagues and many thousands of regular players - 827k registered in Japan for example. I didn’t mention ”powerhouses”.
Thus I stand by my original statement, but I am sure you could argue about the definition of “real connection”.
Perhaps I should have been even more robust in defence of Japan as a footballing nation!
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Viva you make some valid arguments in favour of what you think
Do you really think that this would have even raised its head if some reporter had not raised it as an issue. The same reporter that walked out of some presentation evening in Scotland because she didn’t like the jokes. Do you believe the non white girls on the bench felt less worthy winners
We should all be talking about the success of the team not using them to advance agendas
The same goes for our team at the World Cup. Let’s play football and hopefully do well.
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Viva you make some valid arguments in favour of what you think
Cheers, will answer your questions a bit more succinctly...
Do you really think that this would have even raised its head if some reporter had not raised it as an issue?
Yes, because it was being talked about on Twitter quite prominently a day or two before Elidh Barbour brought it up on air (which is presumably why she did or why the programme's editors suggested she did)
Do you believe the non white girls on the bench felt less worthy winners?
No I don't, they were part of a successful squad.
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Viva you make some valid arguments in favour of what you think
Do you really think that this would have even raised its head if some reporter had not raised it as an issue. The same reporter that walked out of some presentation evening in Scotland because she didn’t like the jokes. Do you believe the non white girls on the bench felt less worthy winners
We should all be talking about the success of the team not using them to advance agendas
The same goes for our team at the World Cup. Let’s play football and hopefully do well.
It is not people asking questions that makes this 'an issue'. It is people being offended by the question being asked.
In my experience they are also the same people who complain; 'that you can't say that anymore', 'it's cancel culture' and 'everyone should have free speech'.
Funny old world...
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Viva
Your actual question, in the mouth of a non-white aspiring girl footballer, was "'why do none of these players look like me?"
It seems obtuse of you to summarily dismiss the reviewing of demographic statistics to assess how many of the players should be expected to "look like" your footballer.
The fact is Black women were not statistically underrepresented in the England squad (far from it) but British Asians were.
I think you're being too simplistic and plain wrong to lump all ethnic minorities into a non-white category and incorrect in your view that there is an overall issue applying to them all or to all women from poorer backgrounds.
Unless you any evidence to back up your supposition that it is more difficult for poorer girls to make their way in football?
Sydney - Some data as requested.
- British Asians make up 8% of the population but less than 1% of English professional footballers.
- The majority (over 60%) of British Asians have their roots in India or Pakistan
- India is the worlds 2nd most populous country (17.7% of the world's population) and is 61st in the FIFA women's international teams rankings
- Pakistan is the worlds 5th most populous country and is 160th in the FIFA women's international teams rankings
Hence my assertion that cultural differences are the more likely reason for British Asian under-representation in the England squad. (Not cultural problems as you put it - this is a free country!)
However if you have evidence to contradict this opinion please feel free to share.
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All you've done there Branton is to supply some numbers then make an assertion because of those numbers, you have not explained the bit in the middle.
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All you've done there Branton is to supply some numbers then make an assertion because of those numbers, you have not explained the bit in the middle.
Very simple Sydney.
Football is not as popular a sport in India or Pakistan as in England. Hence why they have such very poor international teams versus their population size.
The majority of British Asians have their roots in India or Pakistan.
British Asians are woefully underrepresented in men's and women's pro football in England versus their population share.
Therefore football is not as popular a sport amongst British Asians as it is the rest of the population. In line with in India and Pakistan - hence for cultural reasons.
Therefore British Asians were underrepresented also in the England women's football squad.
Again if you have any data that contradicts mine or my conclusions please feel free to share.
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So now we don't need any evidence? just assumptions
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So now we don't need any evidence? just assumptions
Have you been drinking? The evidence/data was in the previous post you then asked for an explanation which I provided.
If you'd like to intepret the data in another way or supply your own evidence and conclusions therefrom then feel free.
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Have you given the data that tells me how you get from the numbers to the conclusions? you know the bit that tells me how and why you can come to those conclusions. Or are you now making assumptions that fit your argument?
Show me the surveys the questionnaires all the things that social scientists would use to be able to make those conclusions.
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Have you given the data that tells me how you get from the numbers to the conclusions? you know the bit that tells me how and why you can come to those conclusions. Or are you now making assumptions that fit your argument?
Show me the surveys the questionnaires all the things that social scientists would use to be able to make those conclusions.
And that's my cue to exit.
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China is the Premier League's biggest market with 300 million viewers watching games weekly. Next is India with 147 million.*
2011 figures so probably increased since then
https://www.sportingindex.com/spread-betting-blog/premier-league-viewing-figures
The Indian Super League is the most watched sport in India, bigger than the IPL cricket. Both the Indian and Chinese leagues had a higher average attendence than Seria A the last time figures were collected:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Super_League_attendance
So if you are trying to think of a reason why British Asians are under-represented in British football it's got noting to do with football not being popular in Asian communities - in Britain or in Asia.
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Have you given the data that tells me how you get from the numbers to the conclusions? you know the bit that tells me how and why you can come to those conclusions. Or are you now making assumptions that fit your argument?
Show me the surveys the questionnaires all the things that social scientists would use to be able to make those conclusions.
And that's my cue to exit.
Because you can't support what you say, fair enough.
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China is the Premier League's biggest market with 300 million viewers watching games weekly. Next is India with 147 million.*
2011 figures so probably increased since then
https://www.sportingindex.com/spread-betting-blog/premier-league-viewing-figures
The Indian Super League is the most watched sport in India, bigger than the IPL cricket. Both the Indian and Chinese leagues had a higher average attendence than Seria A the last time figures were collected:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Super_League_attendance
So if you are trying to think of a reason why British Asians are under-represented in British football it's got noting to do with football not being popular in Asian communities - in Britain or in Asia.
Thanks Wilts - that's a sensible and well reasoned counter argument
But that's watching football not playing it.
How do you explain India having 17.7% of the world's population and only the 61st best women's team and the 106th best men's team in the world.
Or the fact that British Asians account for 8% of the England and Wales population but less than 1% of our pro footballers.
If it's not down to a lack of participation??
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Branton I’d give up you’re on a loser. You could be in complete agreement with some people on here and they’d just make excuses to contradict or argue with you.
You should be used to it. Same old same old
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Branton I’d give up you’re on a loser. You could be in complete agreement with some people on here and they’d just make excuses to contradict or argue with you.
You should be used to it. Same old same old
Any time you want to step in and provide some proof go ahead phil, one of the problems is that unsupported hearsay is taken on board as evidence and repeated.
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Talk of the devil.
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That's insults from you and branton, didn't you read the note about having civilised conversation phil?
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Anyway, back to the original question in the OP.
Yes, I’m interested in the World Cup in Qatar.
There have been some shock results which adds to the intrigue.
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Watching Brazil tonight on the beeb and they have Gilberto Silva as one of the pundits.
The guy still gives me nightmares.
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Watching Brazil tonight on the beeb and they have Gilberto Silva as one of the pundits.
The guy still gives me nightmares.
Yep , I had to call him a t**t when he came on for old times sake
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China is the Premier League's biggest market with 300 million viewers watching games weekly. Next is India with 147 million.*
2011 figures so probably increased since then
https://www.sportingindex.com/spread-betting-blog/premier-league-viewing-figures
The Indian Super League is the most watched sport in India, bigger than the IPL cricket. Both the Indian and Chinese leagues had a higher average attendence than Seria A the last time figures were collected:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Super_League_attendance
So if you are trying to think of a reason why British Asians are under-represented in British football it's got noting to do with football not being popular in Asian communities - in Britain or in Asia.
Thanks Wilts - that's a sensible and well reasoned counter argument
But that's watching football not playing it.
How do you explain India having 17.7% of the world's population and only the 61st best women's team and the 106th best men's team in the world.
Or the fact that British Asians account for 8% of the England and Wales population but less than 1% of our pro footballers.
If it's not down to a lack of participation??
Lack of quality coaching, tactics, funding, poor leadership, the same reason 'big' clubs like Sunderland, Ipswich, Portsmouth are not in the PL whilst 'smaller' ones like Brentford & Bournemouth are.
There are 50,000 football clubs in India. All/most British Asian will play football at school. So I don't see how it can be down to lack of participation of youngsters.
But you are asking the right questions as to why they don't progress.
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Back to the footy....Angleterre today, let's just hope for a good performance, no injuries, Grealish to start for a change?
and no hypocritical virtue signalling like the Germans.....
remember kids, if the players and pundits had the moral conscience they pretend to have then they wouldn't be there and neither would they pick up their Chinese funded pay packet each month back in the EPL
Pickin n choosin at the outrage buffet
PS.....if the pundits keep banging on about this mythical "red wall" of Wales fans :coat: you'd think a football ground had never had fans in before, pretty much every nation has made more noise so far
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Back to the footy you say...?
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Back to the footy....Angleterre today, let's just hope for a good performance, no injuries, Grealish to start for a change?
and no hypocritical virtue signalling like the Germans.....
remember kids, if the players and pundits had the moral conscience they pretend to have then they wouldn't be there and neither would they pick up their Chinese funded pay packet each month back in the EPL
Pickin n choosin at the outrage buffet
PS.....if the pundits keep banging on about this mythical "red wall" of Wales fans :coat: you'd think a football ground had never had fans in before, pretty much every nation has made more noise so far
They are doing their jobs aren't they? If everybody boycotted work due to moral objections, then millions of us wouldn't go to work every day, as pretty much every big corporation or institution has some sort of objectionable moral record of some description, whether it be environmental, low pay, poor standards, corruption, involvement in politics, back-handers, tax, or whatever else.
You can have ethical concerns and still take part in something but protest instead. That's a perfectly reasonable stance to take. I don't agree with a lot of the politics of this country and find a lot of what's happening here to be morally repugnant at the moment, but I don't refuse to go to work or participate in society.
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Back to the footy....Angleterre today, let's just hope for a good performance, no injuries, Grealish to start for a change?
and no hypocritical virtue signalling like the Germans.....
remember kids, if the players and pundits had the moral conscience they pretend to have then they wouldn't be there and neither would they pick up their Chinese funded pay packet each month back in the EPL
Pickin n choosin at the outrage buffet
PS.....if the pundits keep banging on about this mythical "red wall" of Wales fans :coat: you'd think a football ground had never had fans in before, pretty much every nation has made more noise so far
They are doing their jobs aren't they? If everybody boycotted work due to moral objections, then millions of us wouldn't go to work every day, as pretty much every big corporation or institution has some sort of objectionable moral record of some description, whether it be environmental, low pay, poor standards, corruption, involvement in politics, back-handers, tax, or whatever else.
You can have ethical concerns and still take part in something but protest instead. That's a perfectly reasonable stance to take. I don't agree with a lot of the politics of this country and find a lot of what's happening here to be morally repugnant at the moment, but I don't refuse to go to work or participate in society.
Post of the Month. Nails it.
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Humble pie time ! Wasn't bothered at all but enjoying it so much and think it will be the one world cup when England aren't rinsed after prem, champions League, fa and league cups. They'll only go and win it !!?
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They need to improve dramatically for that to happen.
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Won’t win it unless they are told to go out and play without fear.
Let other teams worry about us not the other way round.
That doesn’t mean going gun hoe. Obviously we need to be organised and know the oppositions strengths but the emphasis has to be on using our talented attacking players and going out to score goals.
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Won’t win it unless they are told to go out and play without fear.
Let other teams worry about us not the other way round.
That doesn’t mean going gun hoe. Obviously we need to be organised and know the oppositions strengths but the emphasis has to be on using our talented attacking players and going out to score goals.
So easy, isn’t it? Amazing we’ve not won it by now.
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They are doing their jobs aren't they? If everybody boycotted work due to moral objections, then millions of us wouldn't go to work every day, as pretty much every big corporation or institution has some sort of objectionable moral record of some description, whether it be environmental, low pay, poor standards, corruption, involvement in politics, back-handers, tax, or whatever else.
You can have ethical concerns and still take part in something but protest instead. That's a perfectly reasonable stance to take. I don't agree with a lot of the politics of this country and find a lot of what's happening here to be morally repugnant at the moment, but I don't refuse to go to work or participate in society.
The objectionable moral record of Qatar involves appalling/racist treatment of foreign workers resulting in 100s of deaths and 1,000s of injuries each year including in building the World Cup stadiums; forced labour inc confiscation of passports; homosexuality is illegal and can be punished by death from stoning; women cannot marry, travel abroad, take contraceptives or as single parents retain custody of their children without permission from their male guardian and face restrictions in what they can wear; you can only vote if you have a descendant who held Qatari citizenship in 1930 - so much of the population is disenfranchised on racial grounds.
Considering that list would you go and "just do a job" in Qatar which promotes the country and it's regime on the world stage?!
There is really no comparison to the behaviours you list above involving some UK companies - many of which are illegal in this country, or indeed UK politics. In fact I'd humbly suggest you reconsider your appalling analogy.
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They are doing their jobs aren't they? If everybody boycotted work due to moral objections, then millions of us wouldn't go to work every day, as pretty much every big corporation or institution has some sort of objectionable moral record of some description, whether it be environmental, low pay, poor standards, corruption, involvement in politics, back-handers, tax, or whatever else.
You can have ethical concerns and still take part in something but protest instead. That's a perfectly reasonable stance to take. I don't agree with a lot of the politics of this country and find a lot of what's happening here to be morally repugnant at the moment, but I don't refuse to go to work or participate in society.
The objectionable moral record of Qatar involves appalling/racist treatment of foreign workers resulting in 100s of deaths and 1,000s of injuries each year including in building the World Cup stadiums; forced labour inc confiscation of passports; homosexuality is illegal and can be punished by death from stoning; women cannot marry, travel abroad, take contraceptives or as single parents retain custody of their children without permission from their male guardian and face restrictions in what they can wear; you can only vote if you have a descendant who held Qatari citizenship in 1930 - so much of the population is disenfranchised on racial grounds.
Considering that list would you go and "just do a job" in Qatar which promotes the country and it's regime on the world stage?!
There is really no comparison to the behaviours you list above involving some UK companies - many of which are illegal in this country, or indeed UK politics. In fact I'd humbly suggest you reconsider your appalling analogy.
Where have I said I endorse or support the abhorrent laws and ethics of the Qatari regime? Nowhere. So stop treating me as if I have. I am merely highlighting that it’s a perfectly reasonable stance to participate in something that you don’t agree with and protest against it from within, and that refusing to engage isn’t the only option to show your opposition to a regime.
To suggest I am comparing the moral/ethical record of the UK to Qatar is either missing the point, or deliberately twisting the point in order to sit on your soapbox of outrage.
Go and patronise someone else.
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Back to the footy....Angleterre today, let's just hope for a good performance, no injuries, Grealish to start for a change?
and no hypocritical virtue signalling like the Germans.....
remember kids, if the players and pundits had the moral conscience they pretend to have then they wouldn't be there and neither would they pick up their Chinese funded pay packet each month back in the EPL
Pickin n choosin at the outrage buffet
PS.....if the pundits keep banging on about this mythical "red wall" of Wales fans :coat: you'd think a football ground had never had fans in before, pretty much every nation has made more noise so far
They are doing their jobs aren't they? If everybody boycotted work due to moral objections, then millions of us wouldn't go to work every day, as pretty much every big corporation or institution has some sort of objectionable moral record of some description, whether it be environmental, low pay, poor standards, corruption, involvement in politics, back-handers, tax, or whatever else.
You can have ethical concerns and still take part in something but protest instead. That's a perfectly reasonable stance to take. I don't agree with a lot of the politics of this country and find a lot of what's happening here to be morally repugnant at the moment, but I don't refuse to go to work or participate in society.
The big difference....you arent going to work and forcing your views / what you oppose politically on others. You arent wearing a unicorn hat / making everyone put their elbow on the wall (im mocking rainbow hats and knees on grass) or some other limp, pathetic, meaningless gesture that you somehow think means you're showing support for some random thing you've decided you care about.
You go to work and you sell that car, build that house, earth that wire or whatever you may do and you DONT force whatever nonsense you've decided you believe in on others, and you DONT class yourself as some sort of moral crusader by doing so
Pundits, stick to talking about the footy, players stick to playing the footy. And I say again, if they had a conscience they wouldnt play for Newcastle or tour Asia pre season. But they do, oh but Harry Kane has a rainbow Rolex now btw so he's aaaallllll about gay rights
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I don't like listening to it/watching it - therefore you have to stop doing it.
I can only image what type of person that may get annoyed over other people protesting about gay rights/human rights generally?
Maybe they should take their own and advice and not watch things they don't like?
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If Kane has bought the rainbow watch it’s the same/similar to one that Stormzy wore
Would the 1/2 million pound they both spent not be better spent on feeding the hungry or warming the cold or helping the homeless or research into killer diseases rather than complimenting their wrist
Hopefully it will be sold for a profit and the money diverted to a cause that can benefit from the funds
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Back to the footy....Angleterre today, let's just hope for a good performance, no injuries, Grealish to start for a change?
and no hypocritical virtue signalling like the Germans.....
remember kids, if the players and pundits had the moral conscience they pretend to have then they wouldn't be there and neither would they pick up their Chinese funded pay packet each month back in the EPL
Pickin n choosin at the outrage buffet
PS.....if the pundits keep banging on about this mythical "red wall" of Wales fans :coat: you'd think a football ground had never had fans in before, pretty much every nation has made more noise so far
They are doing their jobs aren't they? If everybody boycotted work due to moral objections, then millions of us wouldn't go to work every day, as pretty much every big corporation or institution has some sort of objectionable moral record of some description, whether it be environmental, low pay, poor standards, corruption, involvement in politics, back-handers, tax, or whatever else.
You can have ethical concerns and still take part in something but protest instead. That's a perfectly reasonable stance to take. I don't agree with a lot of the politics of this country and find a lot of what's happening here to be morally repugnant at the moment, but I don't refuse to go to work or participate in society.
The big difference....you arent going to work and forcing your views / what you oppose politically on others. You arent wearing a unicorn hat / making everyone put their elbow on the wall (im mocking rainbow hats and knees on grass) or some other limp, pathetic, meaningless gesture that you somehow think means you're showing support for some random thing you've decided you care about.
You go to work and you sell that car, build that house, earth that wire or whatever you may do and you DONT force whatever nonsense you've decided you believe in on others, and you DONT class yourself as some sort of moral crusader by doing so
Pundits, stick to talking about the footy, players stick to playing the footy. And I say again, if they had a conscience they wouldnt play for Newcastle or tour Asia pre season. But they do, oh but Harry Kane has a rainbow Rolex now btw so he's aaaallllll about gay rights
Riiiight, so you’re offended by people making a gesture of protest or showing solidarity with a cause? And you think that everybody in the world that is employed in any sort of job, whether that be in the public eye or not, should just stick to their job and never speak out, make any sort of gesture, or show any solidarity with any cause?
And by calling it “nonsense” they’ve “decided to believe in” are you saying that you don’t believe gay people should be treated equally?
Also, who says it’s a “meaningless gesture”? The eyes of the world are on this event, who are you to say a gesture can’t have an impact? What do you expect to happen? Do you expect Harry Kane to have sex with a team mate in the centre circle?
Oh and lastly… who’s “classing themself as a moral crusader”? How do you know Harry Kane et al don’t truly believe in the causes they are speaking out about?
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I wonder when some of the folk in here will tell us how f**ked of they are at the "nonsense" and "virtue signalling" that football engages in every year around 11 November. I've just scrolled back and...nope...nothing.
How odd, from people who get so choleric about footballers giving public signs of respect, instead of just playing football.
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BST are you genuinely trying to say that honouring the brave men and women who laid down their lives to allow people the right to free speech and freedom and free the survivors of the holocaust is virtue signalling.
They gave up their rights to allow others theirs. Without their sacrifice 75% of the debates on here wouldn’t be happening
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If Kane has bought the rainbow watch it’s the same/similar to one that Stormzy wore
Would the 1/2 million pound they both spent not be better spent on feeding the hungry or warming the cold or helping the homeless or research into killer diseases rather than complimenting their wrist
Hopefully it will be sold for a profit and the money diverted to a cause that can benefit from the funds
He only bought for a wind-up phil
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Where have I said I endorse or support the abhorrent laws and ethics of the Qatari regime? Nowhere. So stop treating me as if I have. I am merely highlighting that it’s a perfectly reasonable stance to participate in something that you don’t agree with and protest against it from within, and that refusing to engage isn’t the only option to show your opposition to a regime.
To suggest I am comparing the moral/ethical record of the UK to Qatar is either missing the point, or deliberately twisting the point in order to sit on your soapbox of outrage.
Go and patronise someone else.
I didn't claim you were endorsing the Qatari regime however it is wholly inconsistent of you to repudiate this in one breath and then in the next criticise me for being outraged at the same said thing.
Unlike in Qatar we have freedom of speech in the UK. If you express opinions others may consider to be abhorrent then you should expect to be challenged on them. If you're offended or feel patronised by said challenges then hard luck.
You're validating England's footballers playing in Qatar where homosexuality is banned and women treated as 2nd class citizens because UK citizens aren't boycotting working for companies that pay low wages in a country with minimum wage legislation.
Despite your protestations this is clearly and obviously comparing and indeed equalising the hugely different moral/ethical standards of the UK and Qatar. As well as being pretty ridiculous.
There are some valid, reasonable and decent arguments in favour of England playing in Qatar - yours isn't one of them.
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Can I ask are all your options made from actually being in the country or just from what your told? I have been in the region for 10 years, and I can tell you all its not all what you portray.
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Where have I said I endorse or support the abhorrent laws and ethics of the Qatari regime? Nowhere. So stop treating me as if I have. I am merely highlighting that it’s a perfectly reasonable stance to participate in something that you don’t agree with and protest against it from within, and that refusing to engage isn’t the only option to show your opposition to a regime.
To suggest I am comparing the moral/ethical record of the UK to Qatar is either missing the point, or deliberately twisting the point in order to sit on your soapbox of outrage.
Go and patronise someone else.
I didn't claim you were endorsing the Qatari regime however it is wholly inconsistent of you to repudiate this in one breath and then in the next criticise me for being outraged at the same said thing.
Unlike in Qatar we have freedom of speech in the UK. If you express opinions others may consider to be abhorrent then you should expect to be challenged on them. If you're offended or feel patronised by said challenges then hard luck.
You're validating England's footballers playing in Qatar where homosexuality is banned and women treated as 2nd class citizens because UK citizens aren't boycotting working for companies that pay low wages in a country with minimum wage legislation.
Despite your protestations this is clearly and obviously comparing and indeed equalising the hugely different moral/ethical standards of the UK and Qatar. As well as being pretty ridiculous.
There are some valid, reasonable and decent arguments in favour of England playing in Qatar - yours isn't one of them.
Branton. I am not equalising the moral standards of the UK and Qatar. If you think that’s what I’m doing then I don’t know what to say to you, because that would be a ridiculous view to hold.
You’re either misunderstanding or wilfully ignoring the nuance of what I’m saying. If that gives you the satisfaction of feeling morally superior then good luck to you.
I’ll spell it out again for you. I’m presenting two examples in order to demonstrate to the poster that I was responding to, that completely opting out of participating in something (in this case doing your job) that is taking place somewhere that you don’t agree with their ethics or laws is not the only way to protest against those ethics or laws. And by the same token, participating in it but at the same time taking part in acts of defiance or gestures of solidarity whilst doing so is not somehow “weak” or “spineless” as many people like to accuse the players/pundits etc. as being.
If you find that abhorrent and an appalling validation of the Qatari regime then there’s no point continuing this conversation as you’re clearly too lost in the weeds of this binary view of England’s players being out there to see the point I am making.
As you said yourself, this event is being watched the world over and the eyes of millions of people, which is a great platform for players and pundits and the like to display their ethical concerns about the country it is being held in. You might feel it would have more impact them staying away completely, but that is definitely not the only way to highlight these issues.
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Pib
I agree with your below quote: -
"completely opting out of participating in something (in this case doing your job) that is taking place somewhere that you don’t agree with their ethics or laws is not the only way to protest against those ethics or laws. And by the same token, participating in it but at the same time taking part in acts of defiance or gestures of solidarity whilst doing so is not somehow weak"
I was disagreeing with your earlier post - the one I responded to firstly: -
"They are doing their jobs aren't they? If everybody boycotted work due to moral objections, then millions of us wouldn't go to work every day, as pretty much every big corporation or institution has some sort of objectionable moral record of some description, whether it be environmental, low pay, poor standards, corruption, involvement in politics, back-handers, tax, or whatever else."
As I say this is validating England's footballers playing in Qatar where homosexuality is banned and women treated as 2nd class citizens because UK citizens aren't boycotting working for companies that pay low wages in a country with minimum wage legislation.
And is clearly and obviously comparing and indeed equalising the hugely different moral/ethical standards of the UK and Qatar. As well as being pretty ridiculous.
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Branton. It really isn’t. I’ve explained this to you above so I won’t do so again.
But if you really want to get into that debate, you and I both know full well that there are a lot worse ethical atrocities taking place on these shores than companies paying low wages.
I notice you only pick out this one example from the non-exhaustive list I made though. Please do let me know though how less strongly you believe I should feel about financial interests being prioritised over action being taken on the destruction of the habitability of the planet, or political choices on austerity and Covid that have/will cost a significant number of people in this country their lives.
Ta.
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Syd if that’s the case then I bit
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Syd if that’s the case then I bit
watch ............ wind-up, get it phil?
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BST are you genuinely trying to say that honouring the brave men and women who laid down their lives to allow people the right to free speech and freedom and free the survivors of the holocaust is virtue signalling.
They gave up their rights to allow others theirs. Without their sacrifice 75% of the debates on here wouldn’t be happening
Phew. Do I REALLY need to answer that?
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Firstly you're confusing pointing out hypocrisy with somehow meaning supporting a homophobic regime. No, there is no equivelance.
If you want an equivelcne, The only way you can equate this is the company you work for kills migrant workers in the production process and explicitly bans homosexuals. You continue to work there and pick up the pay cheque
Added to that at any time you meet an external client you spout off about how you're all for equality and you point at your shiny rainbow armand
Also the Russian company you worked for 4 years ago was invading another country but you were quiet about that presumably because it wasn't in trend to speak up
2 things happen as a result:
1) I call out and laugh at your hypocrisy Mr Lineker et al
2) in doing 1, I'm not somehow supporting homophobia or that regime. I'm not anti whatever your cause is. That equivelnce just doesn't exist. I just want you to stop pretending you care and stop preaching when you simply don't
Easy peasy lemon squuezy
Also after your job above has finished you go back to another job (akin to global players returning to their leagues) which is awash with Saudi and Chinese money... built on the oil industry, child labour,
more migrant worker deaths, persecution of Muslims....and guess what, you say NOTHING
The point is not "anti speaking out" per se, it's stop pretending you give a s*** when you don't
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I can't help thinking there is a whiff of hypocracy or even neo colonialism about this debate. So, Qatar takes steps to restrict the opportunity to have drunken yobs staggering around the streets of Doha. And in accordance with their religion homosexuality is illegal just as it is in every other muslim country. Also illegal in all African counties except one. Its not so long ago that it was illegal in most of the western world too. Yet the next world cup will be held in the States where more people are imprisoned than anywhere else in the world, the vast majority of prisoners are black and many are forced to work on chain gangs, a country where a man with a gun murders gays in a night club and where children in schools are regularly gunned down. Where white supremecists populate the police force and kill black suspects regularly. The press and media will make no mention of this at the next world cup but are indulging in frenzy of criticism of Qatar. It's a bit unfair don't you think ?
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As you say in your comment Avsuptem the west have and are making changes for the better so why sneer at anyone making a stand or a point against ignorant oppression however they do it, at least they are doing something. Education is the answer.
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The UK government has a number of contracts to provide equipment, weapons and training to the Qatari government, military and police. The people who enforce their laws. A minister said recently they want a 'deeper relationship' with Qatar.
No minister has said they disagree with human rights laws or lack of workers rights in Qatar. Exactly the opposite. Tory ministers going over there have said they agree with the stance of that government on human rights measures that would be illegal in this country.
Yet it's Gary Linekar who is a hypocrite - hmmm.
Vote Tory.
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As you say in your comment Avsuptem the west have and are making changes for the better so why sneer at anyone making a stand or a point against ignorant oppression however they do it, at least they are doing something. Education is the answer.
I think you missed my point. I was not condoning oppression. I was criticising the double standerds and pointing out the hypocracy.
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No I didn't miss your point at all.
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Pete Davies in his seminal book about Italia 90 made a superb observation.
From that tournament on, the World Cup wasn't held in a country. A country played host to Planet Football.
Yes the final was in Rome that year, but that was nigh on irrelevant. The World Cup Finals became from then on a global celebration that happened to be physically based in a particular geographical location. It transcended the local culture.
Even Russia, even Putin understood this. He had the police stop arresting and assaulting gay people for the duration. Russia strove to show itself as part of the global family.
Qatar have not played that game. They've insisted that they will impose their own specific culture on the tournament, not have the world bring its culture to them.
They've bought FIFA off, then shoved their noses in the issue of who had the power, by, at the last minute, banning alcohol and shows of tolerance and support to gay people. The left it to the very last minute to do this, to give a fait accompli to countries at the finals.
That's their prerogative, but it must never, ever happen again. Host countries don't own a WC. They host it, and the world takes them over for a brief period. We now know countries like Qatar don't want those rules. So they can f**k right off in future.
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Out of 20 teams so far only France has won them both. Now that’s a bit weird!
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Pete Davies in his seminal book about Italia 90 made a superb observation.
From that tournament on, the World Cup wasn't held in a country. A country played host to Planet Football.
Yes the final was in Rome that year, but that was nigh on irrelevant. The World Cup Finals became from then on a global celebration that happened to be physically based in a particular geographical location. It transcended the local culture.
Even Russia, even Putin understood this. He had the police stop arresting and assaulting gay people for the duration. Russia strove to show itself as part of the global family.
Qatar have not played that game. They've insisted that they will impose their own specific culture on the tournament, not have the world bring its culture to them.
They've bought FIFA off, then shoved their noses in the issue of who had the power, by, at the last minute, banning alcohol and shows of tolerance and support to gay people. The left it to the very last minute to do this, to give a fait accompli to countries at the finals.
That's their prerogative, but it must never, ever happen again. Host countries don't own a WC. They host it, and the world takes them over for a brief period. We now know countries like Qatar don't want those rules. So they can f**k right off in future.
There's a difference BST. Russia is not a Muslim country.
Under your logic FIFA should be allowed to impose Christian / Western values upon the host nation, either that or no muslim country should ever be allowed to host again.
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Or we should allow people from other countries that have laws we don’t like to ignore ours and adhere to their own
Anyone that went to this World Cup not knowing about their laws regarding alcohol and homosexuality (not saying I agree with their draconian laws) must have had their heads up their backsides
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Pete Davies in his seminal book about Italia 90 made a superb observation.
From that tournament on, the World Cup wasn't held in a country. A country played host to Planet Football.
Yes the final was in Rome that year, but that was nigh on irrelevant. The World Cup Finals became from then on a global celebration that happened to be physically based in a particular geographical location. It transcended the local culture.
Even Russia, even Putin understood this. He had the police stop arresting and assaulting gay people for the duration. Russia strove to show itself as part of the global family.
Qatar have not played that game. They've insisted that they will impose their own specific culture on the tournament, not have the world bring its culture to them.
They've bought FIFA off, then shoved their noses in the issue of who had the power, by, at the last minute, banning alcohol and shows of tolerance and support to gay people. The left it to the very last minute to do this, to give a fait accompli to countries at the finals.
That's their prerogative, but it must never, ever happen again. Host countries don't own a WC. They host it, and the world takes them over for a brief period. We now know countries like Qatar don't want those rules. So they can f**k right off in future.
There's a difference BST. Russia is not a Muslim country.
Under your logic FIFA should be allowed to impose Christian / Western values upon the host nation, either that or no muslim country should ever be allowed to host again.
No country that exploits people (workers rights) or discriminates against them in defiance of UN Human Rights Law (gay/women's rights) should ever stage a major international sporting event.
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Is it any different to the influx of cheap European labor in to the UK? The farm gangs that were reported years back to be in the best of conditions!
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The UK has a minimum wage and health & safety legislation in the workplace. Qatar doesn't and there are many examples of workers rights abuses in this very thread.
Is something that is illegal in one country the same as something that is legal in another? What a strange question.
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Wilts, as I have previously asked are all these examples made from first hand experience? Not that strange a question as I live and work in the region. I know there are workers rights such labour laws, minimum salaries. Private healthcare is also a legal requirement to be paid by all employers.
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Pete Davies in his seminal book about Italia 90 made a superb observation.
From that tournament on, the World Cup wasn't held in a country. A country played host to Planet Football.
Yes the final was in Rome that year, but that was nigh on irrelevant. The World Cup Finals became from then on a global celebration that happened to be physically based in a particular geographical location. It transcended the local culture.
Even Russia, even Putin understood this. He had the police stop arresting and assaulting gay people for the duration. Russia strove to show itself as part of the global family.
Qatar have not played that game. They've insisted that they will impose their own specific culture on the tournament, not have the world bring its culture to them.
They've bought FIFA off, then shoved their noses in the issue of who had the power, by, at the last minute, banning alcohol and shows of tolerance and support to gay people. The left it to the very last minute to do this, to give a fait accompli to countries at the finals.
That's their prerogative, but it must never, ever happen again. Host countries don't own a WC. They host it, and the world takes them over for a brief period. We now know countries like Qatar don't want those rules. So they can f**k right off in future.
There's a difference BST. Russia is not a Muslim country.
Under your logic FIFA should be allowed to impose Christian / Western values upon the host nation, either that or no muslim country should ever be allowed to host again.
No country that exploits people (workers rights) or discriminates against them in defiance of UN Human Rights Law (gay/women's rights) should ever stage a major international sporting event.
Fifa had better take the world cup away from USA then before it's too late.
BST I was just wandering if there was anything else on your list that you think should preclude a country ? I would start with lack of fish and chip shops.
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Wilts, as I have previously asked are all these examples made from first hand experience? Not that strange a question as I live and work in the region. I know there are workers rights such labour laws, minimum salaries. Private healthcare is also a legal requirement to be paid by all employers.
Not from me no, I have never been to the middle east (other than Egypt, Palestine & Jordan). However the reports we get over here are from the home nations of the workers who have been badly treated, Nepal, India, Pakistan and Bangladesh. Just google Qatar workers and then each of those countries - you will find plenty of first hand testimonies.
You may have worked over there for many years, so are clearly better placed than us in the UK to comment, but are you really commenting on the conditions all workers experience - or just ones from western countries?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-63628537
https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2021/feb/23/revealed-migrant-worker-deaths-qatar-fifa-world-cup-2022
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No I am not talking from a western point of view at all. In my place of work there is only one other westerner from Manchester. All the other people I work with are either Saudi, India (Kerela/Tamil Nadu) Filipino or Nepalese. I know the conditions the guys live in and the salaries and conditions they work in, and it’s nothing like the reports mentioned in this thread. The accommodation is the same quality as where I live. Ok there are camps in remote locations, but again these are good quality and subject to regular government and company inspections. As for women as second class people, not at all, and this is in Saudi Arabia. My department head, division head and director are all women. I am not saying there are no differences to the UK there are, but no way as badly portrayed by the media, who we know will pick up on the slightest thing and twist and manipulate it to their advantage. People look badly and negatively at the Middle East, but I will honestly say if I had to choose where to live out of the two, Saudi would win every time over the UK, on many aspects.
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A report I saw said that there has been a fair amount of cross support between Iranians and other muslim fans. A positive if true.
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Pete Davies in his seminal book about Italia 90 made a superb observation.
From that tournament on, the World Cup wasn't held in a country. A country played host to Planet Football.
Yes the final was in Rome that year, but that was nigh on irrelevant. The World Cup Finals became from then on a global celebration that happened to be physically based in a particular geographical location. It transcended the local culture.
Even Russia, even Putin understood this. He had the police stop arresting and assaulting gay people for the duration. Russia strove to show itself as part of the global family.
Qatar have not played that game. They've insisted that they will impose their own specific culture on the tournament, not have the world bring its culture to them.
They've bought FIFA off, then shoved their noses in the issue of who had the power, by, at the last minute, banning alcohol and shows of tolerance and support to gay people. The left it to the very last minute to do this, to give a fait accompli to countries at the finals.
That's their prerogative, but it must never, ever happen again. Host countries don't own a WC. They host it, and the world takes them over for a brief period. We now know countries like Qatar don't want those rules. So they can f**k right off in future.
There's a difference BST. Russia is not a Muslim country.
Under your logic FIFA should be allowed to impose Christian / Western values upon the host nation, either that or no muslim country should ever be allowed to host again.
No country that exploits people (workers rights) or discriminates against them in defiance of UN Human Rights Law (gay/women's rights) should ever stage a major international sporting event.
Fifa had better take the world cup away from USA then before it's too late.
BST I was just wandering if there was anything else on your list that you think should preclude a country ? I would start with lack of fish and chip shops.
I can quite happily skip the fish and chips.
If it were down to me though, I think that having a sufficient combination of:
a)Your own people and
b) Foreign visitors that want to come to your country...
...to fill the stadiums without paying people from Lebanon to do so would be a pre-requite.
https://mobile.twitter.com/henrymance/status/1597318265314811904
But I'm old fashioned like that.
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It makes me laugh out load every single time I see a troop of Indians decked out in one or another European or South American gear all busy cheering their heads off. .. Football? What it is a disgrace.
BobG
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Bob, could those people be of Indian descent but born and bred in the country they support?
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Probably. But these ain't and you know it.
It's hardly been a well kept secret.....
BobG
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QI ..................
''How Qatar hacked the World Cup''
''Private investigators linked to the City of London are using an India-based computer hacking gang to target British businesses, government officials and journalists.
The Bureau of Investigative Journalism and the Sunday Times have been given access to the gang’s database, which reveals the extraordinary scale of the attacks.
It shows the criminals targeted the private email accounts of more than 100 victims on behalf of investigators working for autocratic states, British lawyers and their wealthy clients.
Critics of Qatar who threatened to expose wrongdoing by the Gulf state in the run-up to this month’s World Cup were among those hacked.
It is the first time the inner workings of a major “hack-for-hire” gang have been leaked to the media and it reveals multiple criminal conspiracies. Some of the hackers’ clients are private investigators used by major law firms with bases in the City of London''
Our investigation – based on the leaked documents and undercover work in India – can reveal: ................
https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/stories/2022-11-05/how-qatar-hacked-the-world-cup
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In the light of Qatar being granted this wc under dubious circumstances. It got me thinking of other countries that have yet to host a World Cup, which maybe could or should?
India. Have taken part very little in the tournament since it’s inception. Except by default in 1950 when other teams pulled out, and even then they pulled out at the last minute. With one of the worlds biggest populations and a passion for other sports such as cricket, it would be no surprise if they were to host it in the coming decades.
China. Only made an appearance in 2002. Another global sporting giant. Surely the time will come for them to host?
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Normal if you read everything about all the reasons a country shouldn’t hold a World Cup you are looking a a very small a limited amount. List the reasons why people are complaining about this location and put those reasons against other countries that are soon to hold the competition or are hoping to
Not many would get it probably including the UK
Definitely not USA Canada and Mexico
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Normal if you read everything about all the reasons a country shouldn’t hold a World Cup you are looking a a very small a limited amount. List the reasons why people are complaining about this location and put those reasons against other countries that are soon to hold the competition or are hoping to
Not many would get it probably including the UK
Definitely not USA Canada and Mexico
Really got to applaud the mental gymnastics you do. Hopefully they add it to the Olympic programme so you can do us proud on the world stage.
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I’d personally love to see the wc hosted by India.
A country represented around the world with their culture, business and food.
We are happy to have many, many things in the western world made in China.
Why not embrace them in hosting the wc. ?
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India hosted the 2010 Commonwealth Games, a modest sized international event, and this was by fairly universal acceptance the worst organised multinational sporting event in living memory. While 12 years might have passed, the complexities and scale of a tournament like the World Cup means even the fabulously corrupt FIFA selection committee would think twice about handing them the tournament.
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India hosted the 2010 Commonwealth Games, a modest sized international event, and this was by fairly universal acceptance the worst organised multinational sporting event in living memory. While 12 years might have passed, the complexities and scale of a tournament like the World Cup means even the fabulously corrupt FIFA selection committee would think twice about handing them the tournament.
Perhaps because the Indian Footballing authorities are not corrupt? I’d take disorganised over downright corrupt.
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I can remember in "fish in our pond" on this forum about looking for good young players who played against us for clubs in our range putting forward Harry Souttar then of Fleetwood, now of Stoke and quarter finalists Australia as one we should be looking at.
Who would have thought it? nobody at the Rovers at the time obviously.
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Janso explain
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I can remember in "fish in our pond" on this forum about looking for good young players who played against us for clubs in our range putting forward Harry Souttar then of Fleetwood, now of Stoke and quarter finalists Australia as one we should be looking at.
Who would have thought it? nobody at the Rovers at the time obviously.
He was only on loan as a young lad at Fleetwood and has been a regular first team player for Stoke for 3 seasons now. He would never have been a realistic target for us.
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I can remember in "fish in our pond" on this forum about looking for good young players who played against us for clubs in our range putting forward Harry Souttar then of Fleetwood, now of Stoke and quarter finalists Australia as one we should be looking at.
Who would have thought it? nobody at the Rovers at the time obviously.
He was only on loan as a young lad at Fleetwood and has been a regular first team player for Stoke for 3 seasons now. He would never have been a realistic target for us.
I was just about to post exactly the same thing, Nick. He was fantastic against us for Fleetwood about 3 years ago. He stopped everything at the back, and scored the second goal in their 2-1 win.
I thought the same as Brian(Selby), that he was one we should be looking at, but then I googled him and found out that he was on loan from Stoke.
Never within our range.
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Probably. But these ain't and you know it.
It's hardly been a well kept secret.....
BobG
Bob, sorry to tell you that I don’t know which group of Indian fans you are on about.
I am skipping in and out of the forum much less than I have in the past due to being very busy with a house for the last month.
Apologies if I have missed something that was posted earlier and I haven’t seen.
I just picked up on what you had said and asked my question off the back of that.
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Ze Germans aren't .
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Juast listened to the so called experts before the Argentina v Australia game, and I dont think they really understand the Australian approach to international sport.
Argentina like to dish it out, today I think they will meet their match when it comes to the rough stuff.
If would not surprise me if it is a tight game in the later stages it doesn't blow up.
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I’m getting behind Morocco now. So much team spirit, dogged defending and tight organisation.
They have some brilliant players who will earn big moves after this. Ounahi catches the eye.
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Morocco way more entertaining to watch than England.