Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Off Topic => Topic started by: BillyStubbsTears on July 28, 2023, 10:17:13 pm
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So, the line from the far right grifters is evolving.
Once upon a time it was flat denial that global warming was happening.
Then it was: OK, global warming is happening but its nothing to do with burning fossil fuels.
Then it was: OK. Global warming is to do with fossil fuels but we can't stop burning coal and oil and gas because the alternatives are too expensive.
Now it's: Let not talk about costs. Its actually better for everyone if it gets hotter.
Seriously.
And here to slam dunk the case is Jacob Rees-Mogg being paid by a far right grifter to interview an expert on climate science and health care.
https://twitter.com/GBNEWS/status/1684647915837612033
Sorry. Did I say an expert on climate science and health care. I meant an ex-Brexit party MEP. His sister.
It's like the world being run by cartoon villains from an asylum.
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Im not sure you can put this on any political party, i have friends of many different political beliefs and most are very undicided about global warming, the clear issue in the uk is the weather has been pretty crap for the last month, while many countries have beem boiling many habe had below average temperatures, its always been the hottest since records began, but lets be honest records began is not really a very long time
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Global warming is just that, global. Locally its likely we get more extreme weather events, a bit like with el nino. Short term, the UK has been forecast to have generally less cold winters, wetter summers, tho I think if/when the North Atlantic conveyor fails through global warming, the UK becomes much much colder almost instantly.
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https://youtu.be/OEtV3QlPUaU
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Jesus f**king wept. Paul Joseph Walton. The Poundland fascist misinformation t**t from Sheffield.
I thought he'd given up when he made that video during lockdown about how hard he was, going to the local pub with his mates and drinking in the beer garden - only it turned out he was in his mum's back garden.
The utter bell end.
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OK. I've actually watched that video now.
It's a f**king advert for a medical supplement, wrapped up in bullshite disinformation for the "I'm too idle to think" brigade.
The Alex Jones of Hillsborough. What a f**king epitaph.
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Triggered you though :lol:
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Great, another thread where only one opinion matters. Roll on next weekend.
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Nudge.
You want to believe anything a d**khead like Rees Mogg, or a d**khead like Walton says, you fill your boots.
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Who said anything about believing them two? Especially that 1850s weird Kitson.
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I'm well aware of global warming, but I'm sick to death of grim faced environmentalists and politicians coming on TV every night and warning us all about it, then getting in their cars and driving home.
Then they'll probably be jetting off somewhere in the world at the weekend. I don't run a car anymore, or use planes anymore. That's not perfect, but what else do they want me to do?
Hypocrisy, yet again.
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Thought we’d moved on from global warming to global boiling
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Thought we’d moved on from global warming to global boiling
Won't be long until we have Climate lockdowns
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I find it worse when the media fly around the world to tell us there's climate change, a tornado, some flooding, somewhere in the world. Yeah thanks think I knew more of that and quicker on Instagram or Facebook :thumbsup:
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It’s worse when these champagne celebrities get on their soap boxes and tell us what we should be doing but fly around the world in private aircraft or cruise the ocean in their private yachts.
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Well done everyone. Just ignore it and it will all go away.
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It’s worse when these champagne celebrities get on their soap boxes and tell us what we should be doing but fly around the world in private aircraft or cruise the ocean in their private yachts.
Like Deberoh Meadon and Greta Kitsonberg
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Worse that that, Wilts.
People like climate disinformation because it gives them an excuse to carry on as normal.
Pretending it is not happening is easier than engaging with the need to change.
It is worse because politicians exploit this to canvass votes on the basis of false assumptions and nonsense "solutions".
When you hear ignorant proposals to put money into carbon capture, which has no proven track record at scale, you know business as usual is controlling the debate.
Another trojan horse is new nuclear, vastly expensive and subject to long timelines and cost over-runs.
They sell it as "baseload", when the real aim is fast decarbonisation to reduce reliance on centralised facilities.
The cost of making bad decisions now will delay the change needed, and lock in obsolete technologies.
That is the aim of the incumbents, and we risk missing the economic opportunities from making the change.
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I see "Richie" wants to be the motorists friend, the man who would sooner take a plane or a helicopter than drive anywhere
Oh and I'll fly up to Scotland to meet Charlie to talk about Climate Change..... oh the irony
And now "Richies" back benchers want the 2030 deadline put back....... now fancy that!
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All of the ‘Hot Air’ being generated in BST and Wilts houses is having a major impact on our own Carbon Footprint
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Bang on correct Albie, with the added factor that (some) politicans/political parties/newspapers/tv stations have a disincentive to act and/or tell the public the full facts/science about the effects of climate change as they are funded by/have financial interests themselves in, the fossil fuel industry.
And they themselves are wealthy enough to avoid most of the consequences of that change.
Some members of the public relalise the need for pro-active change and are doing what they can for society. Others are mean, greedy and selfish and don't care about anyone else other than themselves and their lifestyle today. You see it on this very thread. It's no good preaching to them, they are beyond listening.
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Thanks for proving my point Sproty. I knew I could rely on you.
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The best thing an average family can do to reduce their environmental impact is to have the family dog killed.
Having a dog is considerably worse for the environment than running a car.
A medium size dog has about the same ecological footprint as two large cars. For a big dog like a German Shepherd it's closer to 3 large cars.
This is because of the amount of meat dogs consume.
Yet this is never mentioned by environmental activists or politicians.
For information Greta Thunberg has 2 large dogs www.celebritypets.net/pets/greta-thunberg-pets/
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It’s worse when these champagne celebrities get on their soap boxes and tell us what we should be doing but fly around the world in private aircraft or cruise the ocean in their private yachts.
Like Deberoh Meadon and Greta Kitsonberg
Calling a young female with Aspergers a c%£t doesn't really help your argument.
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For information Greta Thunberg has 2 large dogs www.celebritypets.net/pets/greta-thunberg-pets/
She's also vegan so maybe the dogs eat her share.
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For information Greta Thunberg has 2 large dogs www.celebritypets.net/pets/greta-thunberg-pets/
She's also vegan so maybe the dogs eat her share.
2 large dogs would eat considerably more meat than a human following a balanced diet
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For information Greta Thunberg has 2 large dogs www.celebritypets.net/pets/greta-thunberg-pets/
She's also vegan so maybe the dogs eat her share.
It's worrying how grown men feel that their opinions are threatened by a 20 year old with Aspergers,isn't it?
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Decent article in the Observer on the posturing from the likes of Sunak and Starmer;
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jul/30/rishi-sunak-and-keir-starmer-should-take-courage-from-joe-biden-green-energy-for-all-is-the-only-way-forward?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
Just get on with it, and stop pandering to the lobbying from vested interests.
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It’s worse when these champagne celebrities get on their soap boxes and tell us what we should be doing but fly around the world in private aircraft or cruise the ocean in their private yachts.
Like Deberoh Meadon and Greta Kitsonberg
Calling a young female with Aspergers a c%£t doesn't really help your argument.
Nobody is safe, she partakes in fake arrests at these phoney climate rallies for publicity so yeah, she's a Kitson.
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Fake and phoney?
You sound like the orange orangutan from over the pond.
Should we stone her?
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Fake and phoney?
You sound like the orange orangutan from over the pond.
Should we stone her?
You sound like a drip. Stone her? Change your user name to Saudi Red.
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One of the biggest green acts is making public transport a focus both in improving it, and making it free at the point of use. Not something Sunak nor Starmer will touch.
Another is massive pressure on the US and China. Again, not happening.
So, what happens are all kinds of policies with political and corrupt motivations.
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Fake and phoney?
You sound like the orange orangutan from over the pond.
Should we stone her?
You sound like a drip. Stone her? Change your user name to Saudi Red.
You must have had an incredibly hard lock down if you take it out on young women with Aspergers.
Saudi/Sad man.
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Global warming is just that, global. Locally its likely we get more extreme weather events, a bit like with el nino. Short term, the UK has been forecast to have generally less cold winters, wetter summers, tho I think if/when the North Atlantic conveyor fails through global warming, the UK becomes much much colder almost instantly.
The 2022-23 surface mass balance of the Greenland ice sheet is currently running above the 1981-2010 average https://patbaywebcam.com/Greenland.php
It is fresh melt water running in to sea water that would disrupt the currents. This happened in the Younger Dryas period at the end of the last ice age. Temperature swings of 10-12C from cold to warm to cold to warm again.
You mentioned extreme weather events becoming more likely. The frequency of global hurricanes and major hurricanes has not increased in the last 50 years https://climatlas.com/tropical/?fbclid=IwAR1u-yYXiAXWvRW_LFAwKhDmERdhNYUy-EtfLvsuVbDqXDuw8RkyZ_--kts
In terms of temeprature, globally many many more people die from cold temperatures and the side effects than from the heat. If we have a look at the findings of this Lancet paper https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanplh/article/PIIS2542-5196(21)00081-4/fulltext
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Fake and phoney?
You sound like the orange orangutan from over the pond.
Should we stone her?
You sound like a drip. Stone her? Change your user name to Saudi Red.
You must have had an incredibly hard lock down if you take it out on young women with Aspergers.
Saudi/Sad man.
If she's as bad as you think then she shouldn't be put in a position where she gets criticism. Maybe her handlers don't give a f**k about her as she's a marketable asset?
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Global warming is just that, global. Locally its likely we get more extreme weather events, a bit like with el nino. Short term, the UK has been forecast to have generally less cold winters, wetter summers, tho I think if/when the North Atlantic conveyor fails through global warming, the UK becomes much much colder almost instantly.
The 2022-23 surface mass balance of the Greenland ice sheet is currently running above the 1981-2010 average https://patbaywebcam.com/Greenland.php
It is fresh melt water running in to sea water that would disrupt the currents. This happened in the Younger Dryas period at the end of the last ice age. Temperature swings of 10-12C from cold to warm to cold to warm again.
You mentioned extreme weather events becoming more likely. The frequency of global hurricanes and major hurricanes has not increased in the last 50 years https://climatlas.com/tropical/?fbclid=IwAR1u-yYXiAXWvRW_LFAwKhDmERdhNYUy-EtfLvsuVbDqXDuw8RkyZ_--kts
In terms of temeprature, globally many many more people die from cold temperatures and the side effects than from the heat. If we have a look at the findings of this Lancet paper https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanplh/article/PIIS2542-5196(21)00081-4/fulltext
And it was also warm in the medieval times between 950 to 1250
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_Warm_Period
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F**k me!
How old are you?
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F**k me!
How old are you?
[/quote Clearly older and wiser than you looking looking at the series of Car Crash posts from yourself!
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/jul/24/greta-thunberg-fined-for-disobeying-swedish-police-at-climate-protest
Your heroine is an adult now and has to accept the full course of the law for her actions!
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Thanks sproggy.
I've given it a like along with GG.
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Global warming is just that, global. Locally its likely we get more extreme weather events, a bit like with el nino. Short term, the UK has been forecast to have generally less cold winters, wetter summers, tho I think if/when the North Atlantic conveyor fails through global warming, the UK becomes much much colder almost instantly.
The 2022-23 surface mass balance of the Greenland ice sheet is currently running above the 1981-2010 average https://patbaywebcam.com/Greenland.php
It is fresh melt water running in to sea water that would disrupt the currents. This happened in the Younger Dryas period at the end of the last ice age. Temperature swings of 10-12C from cold to warm to cold to warm again.
You mentioned extreme weather events becoming more likely. The frequency of global hurricanes and major hurricanes has not increased in the last 50 years https://climatlas.com/tropical/?fbclid=IwAR1u-yYXiAXWvRW_LFAwKhDmERdhNYUy-EtfLvsuVbDqXDuw8RkyZ_--kts
In terms of temeprature, globally many many more people die from cold temperatures and the side effects than from the heat. If we have a look at the findings of this Lancet paper https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanplh/article/PIIS2542-5196(21)00081-4/fulltext
And it was also warm in the medieval times between 950 to 1250
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_Warm_Period
Medieval Warm Period was only warmer than average in the North Atlantic area.
This graph, from the very link you posted Nudga, shows GLOBAL average temperatures for the past 2000 years.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f8/2000%2B_year_global_temperature_including_Medieval_Warm_Period_and_Little_Ice_Age_-_Ed_Hawkins.svg/660px-2000%2B_year_global_temperature_including_Medieval_Warm_Period_and_Little_Ice_Age_-_Ed_Hawkins.svg.png)
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I just don't understand anyone still questioning the fundamentals here. Like I said in the OP, even the swivel eyed far right loons have stopped doing that - they've just transitioned to Global Warming = Good Thing.
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I genuinely don’t know the answer to this, but just how accurate can these temperatures from hundreds of years go be?
I’m not denying we are f**king things up btw.
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The climate can be a funny thing, look at the weather in Europe circa 1846/7 caused food shortages right across Europe and revolutions in Germany, France, Austro Hungary. One thing is for sure our contribution is minimal compared to China, India and the US,plus Indonesia and the Philippines and many other developing countries, they argue that we had our chance back in the days of the Industrial Revolution and now they are entitled to do the same! They see it as a justification for their excessive Carbon footprint , well if the British had known about it A hundred plus years ago they would have done something, blaming us for their own polluting ways and using it as an excuse to keep polluting is a bit ‘Tardy’ I’m my humble opinion!
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Global warming is just that, global. Locally its likely we get more extreme weather events, a bit like with el nino. Short term, the UK has been forecast to have generally less cold winters, wetter summers, tho I think if/when the North Atlantic conveyor fails through global warming, the UK becomes much much colder almost instantly.
The 2022-23 surface mass balance of the Greenland ice sheet is currently running above the 1981-2010 average https://patbaywebcam.com/Greenland.php
It is fresh melt water running in to sea water that would disrupt the currents. This happened in the Younger Dryas period at the end of the last ice age. Temperature swings of 10-12C from cold to warm to cold to warm again.
You mentioned extreme weather events becoming more likely. The frequency of global hurricanes and major hurricanes has not increased in the last 50 years https://climatlas.com/tropical/?fbclid=IwAR1u-yYXiAXWvRW_LFAwKhDmERdhNYUy-EtfLvsuVbDqXDuw8RkyZ_--kts
In terms of temeprature, globally many many more people die from cold temperatures and the side effects than from the heat. If we have a look at the findings of this Lancet paper https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanplh/article/PIIS2542-5196(21)00081-4/fulltext
And it was also warm in the medieval times between 950 to 1250
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_Warm_Period
It was also warm when the Romans came over in their sandals wandering around walls in the south of Scotland. They left as it got colder. Coincidence? True tho.
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I genuinely don’t know the answer to this, but just how accurate can these temperatures from hundreds of years go be?
I’m not denying we are f**king things up btw.
That particular graph is developed from a database put together by a very large group of international scientists, looking at a wide range of indicators from many sites across the world. These indicators include numerous independent indicators which are known to be affected by temperature, such as:
Tree rings
Formation of ocean and lake sediments
Formation of Arctic and Antarctic ice deposits
Structures of ancient corals
Structures of stalactites and stalagmites
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5505119/bin/sdata201788-s2.pdf
This dataset was then analysed by 7 different statistical approaches, with different underlying assumptions.
All approaches found essentially the same trend.
This is hard science. If people really want to understand it, they need to devote years of really hard work. We have scientists that do that, and the overwhelming majority come to similar conclusions.
You can trust them to be diligent and honest.
Or you can trust Jacob Rees Mogg and Nigel Farage.
This gets to the core of a key modern issue. When Brexit campaigners were telling us to trust them rather than experts, they didn't just mean over Brexit. If we are trained to assume the scientific community is incompetent or nefarious (or, God forbid, Woke) then the worst sort of politicians can tell us to ignore them and believe what we'd like to be true instead.
In 500 years time, historians looking back at this era will judge the likes of Trump and Gove like we judge the Middle Ages clerics who wanted to keep the populace thick as pigshit so they could lap up whatever interpretation of the Bible suited the Church.
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The climate can be a funny thing, look at the weather in Europe circa 1846/7 caused food shortages right across Europe and revolutions in Germany, France, Austro Hungary. One thing is for sure our contribution is minimal compared to China, India and the US,plus Indonesia and the Philippines and many other developing countries, they argue that we had our chance back in the days of the Industrial Revolution and now they are entitled to do the same! They see it as a justification for their excessive Carbon footprint , well if the British had known about it A hundred plus years ago they would have done something, blaming us for their own polluting ways and using it as an excuse to keep polluting is a bit ‘Tardy’ I’m my humble opinion!
Do you have a source for that assertion?
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Thought we’d moved on from global warming to global boiling
Global boiling :lol:.
It's pathetic.
I'm happy knowing I'm living my life without the fear that they are trying to force on us.
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For information Greta Thunberg has 2 large dogs www.celebritypets.net/pets/greta-thunberg-pets/
She's also vegan so maybe the dogs eat her share.
Wish they'd eat her.
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This gets to the core of a key modern issue. When Brexit campaigners were telling us to trust them rather than experts, they didn't just mean over Brexit. If we are trained to assume the scientific community is incompetent or nefarious (or, God forbid, Woke) then the worst sort of politicians can tell us to ignore them and believe what we'd like to be true instead.
Does your criticism extend to Remain campaigners (inc the bulk of the Labour Party) who en masse stood behind the massively exaggerated claims of Brexit economic woe put forward by George Osbourne which were significantly worse than what the bulk of economic experts were predicting and indeed what has actually happened?
Or are the "worst sort of politicians" just the ones you happen to disagree with??
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Branton
Read what I wrote.
Can you find a single example of any Remain supporting figure telling us that experts supporting the other side were like the scientists who supported Hitler? Systematic suppression of expert opinion.
Just one?
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That's No and then Yes then.
Yes I read what you wrote.
You were (correctly) accusing Leave campaigners of playing up to people's hopes by critiquing without merit the predictions of economic experts.
Remain campaigners played up to people's fears (esp after the impact of the '08 crash) by claiming economic Armageddon and ignoring without merit the much, much milder predictions of economic experts.
What's the difference?
How is ignoring expert opinion and instead championing a false narrative to scare the population into voting for what you want not suppression of expert opinion?
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Branton.
You are comparing one side which got the core economic argument right (we HAVE had a serious and long term economic hit) and dressed that up in political spin, with the other side who got the core economic argument wrong and literally compared economists who took them to task with Hitler enablers.
You might also note that many of the Leave politicians who decried economic expertise in 2016 are the same ones questioning climate change experts now.
Do you see the method?
PS: You never did answer me on this one. Do you still think that EU officials seriously boasted about making the UK a colony?
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Thanks sproggy.
I've given it a like along with GG.
Hound? GG?
You'll have to explain that one.
Also, Hound asked you to name the racists you insist are on this forum. You haven't replied yet.
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Branton.
You are comparing one side which got the core economic argument right (we HAVE had a serious and long term economic hit) and dressed that up in political spin, with the other side who got the core economic argument wrong
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Billy
Here's what Osborne claimed www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36355564 and the Remain campaign rowed behind en masse.
It bears absolutely no comparison to what economic experts were predicting or what has actually happened.
We haven't had a recession (Covid apart) never mind a year long recession as Remain warned. 500k-800k jobs haven't been lost - unemployment has fallen. House prices haven't fallen 10-18% - they've risen. I could go on.
Remain did not get the core argument right. They've been proven completely wrong. But they never attempted to get the economics right just to scare people into voting for what they wanted. By ignoring totally and thereby undermining what the experts were saying - yes just like Leave campaigners did.
To dress that up as merely "political spin" is frankly pathetic.
Your definition of "long-term" only 7 years after the referendum and 2.5 years since leaving the SM is as ridiculous as the SNP on "once in a generation".
No sensible, sober analysis of comparative economic performance could possibly conclude there has been a "serious" economic hit. From the IMF: -
GDP growth 2016-2022: UK 8%; France 8%; Germany 8%; Italy 5%
GDP growth 2016-2028 (inc IMF estimates): UK 18%; France 18%; Germany 16%; Italy 12%
www.imf.org/external/datamapper/NGDP_RPCH@WEO/OEMDC/ADVEC/WEOWORLD
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Thanks sproggy.
I've given it a like along with GG.
Hound? GG?
You'll have to explain that one.
Also, Hound asked you to name the racists you insist are on this forum. You haven't replied yet.
Somebody keeps implying that I am right wing, which to me in old money means being racist.
I am not racist, I am not right leaning or left leaning, I am not aligned with any political party at all.
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The climate can be a funny thing, look at the weather in Europe circa 1846/7 caused food shortages right across Europe and revolutions in Germany, France, Austro Hungary. One thing is for sure our contribution is minimal compared to China, India and the US,plus Indonesia and the Philippines and many other developing countries, they argue that we had our chance back in the days of the Industrial Revolution and now they are entitled to do the same! They see it as a justification for their excessive Carbon footprint , well if the British had known about it A hundred plus years ago they would have done something, blaming us for their own polluting ways and using it as an excuse to keep polluting is a bit ‘Tardy’ I’m my humble opinion!
Do you have a source for that assertion?
Here you go ,one of many similar https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwj3iqbxzLmAAxXEQUEAHThpAHMQFnoECDgQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.brookings.edu%2Farticles%2Fit-is-unfair-to-push-poor-countries-to-reach-zero-carbon-emissions-too-early%2F&usg=AOvVaw2znNHzKzGp5m_8YXYTNOGr&opi=89978449
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Thanks sproggy.
I've given it a like along with GG.
Hound? GG?
You'll have to explain that one.
Also, Hound asked you to name the racists you insist are on this forum. You haven't replied yet.
Somebody keeps implying that I am right wing, which to me in old money means being racist.
I am not racist, I am not right leaning or left leaning, I am not aligned with any political party at all.
It’s a very common misconception on here that if you are not a staunch left winger, then you must be a staunch right winger.
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Thanks sproggy.
I've given it a like along with GG.
Hound? GG?
You'll have to explain that one.
Also, Hound asked you to name the racists you insist are on this forum. You haven't replied yet.
Somebody keeps implying that I am right wing, which to me in old money means being racist.
I am not racist, I am not right leaning or left leaning, I am not aligned with any political party at all.
I think after 4 1/2k posts Nudga, if someone hasn't yet worked out that you are completely unique and away in a world of your own - then they can't have been a member here for very long!
I have seen maybe a couple of racist posts over the years that were clamped on pretty quick by the mods. Certainly nobody posting in this thread (under the user names they have now).
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Interesting policy change by Sunak going against Johnson's green initiatives and the promises the Tories made after COP 26. I wonder why that is?
Ahh - Rishi Sunak's family's business Infosys boasts of its partnership with "two of the top five integrated oil and gas companies, three of the top four oilfield services providers, and five of the top 10 upstream enterprises across the oil and gas landscape.”
https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1686044884782731264
Follow the money. Which the British taxpapyer will be forking out in subsidies to overseas tax dodgers...
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The fact is, UK oil is sold on the international market and then we’ll buy it back, the only people that benefit are the Oil Companies and their shareholders
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Thanks sproggy.
I've given it a like along with GG.
Hound? GG?
You'll have to explain that one.
Also, Hound asked you to name the racists you insist are on this forum. You haven't replied yet.
Somebody keeps implying that I am right wing, which to me in old money means being racist.
I am not racist, I am not right leaning or left leaning, I am not aligned with any political party at all.
I think after 4 1/2k posts Nudga, if someone hasn't yet worked out that you are completely unique and away in a world of your own - then they can't have been a member here for very long!
I have seen maybe a couple of racist posts over the years that were clamped on pretty quick by the mods. Certainly nobody posting in this thread (under the user names they have now).
Politely put Wilts, but I can assure you, away from this forum I am not in my own world. There are quite a few people with views similar to mine.
And no, I don't like David Ike and I am not a flat earther.
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Thanks sproggy.
I've given it a like along with GG.
Hound? GG?
You'll have to explain that one.
Also, Hound asked you to name the racists you insist are on this forum. You haven't replied yet.
Somebody keeps implying that I am right wing, which to me in old money means being racist.
I am not racist, I am not right leaning or left leaning, I am not aligned with any political party at all.
I think after 4 1/2k posts Nudga, if someone hasn't yet worked out that you are completely unique and away in a world of your own - then they can't have been a member here for very long!
I have seen maybe a couple of racist posts over the years that were clamped on pretty quick by the mods. Certainly nobody posting in this thread (under the user names they have now).
Maybe that is why our friend is unable to back up his claim that there are racists on the forum.
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The fact is, UK oil is sold on the international market and then we’ll buy it back, the only people that benefit are the Oil Companies and their shareholders
So you neglect to include any one who has a workplace pension scheme, that could also include you!
Does it really matter where UK oil is sold? if you go right back to the start of north sea oil, the UK government decided it would not extract the resources itself but issue licences for Oil companies to extract the oil with royalty payments to the Uk (unlike the Norwegians) Once that decision had been made it made minimal difference, as in any business the contractor takes on the risk and will have to stand any costs and losses as well as the profits.
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The fact is, UK oil is sold on the international market and then we’ll buy it back, the only people that benefit are the Oil Companies and their shareholders
So you neglect to include any one who has a workplace pension scheme, that could also include you!
Does it really matter where UK oil is sold? if you go right back to the start of north sea oil, the UK government decided it would not extract the resources itself but issue licences for Oil companies to extract the oil with royalty payments to the Uk (unlike the Norwegians) Once that decision had been made it made minimal difference, as in any business the contractor takes on the risk and will have to stand any costs and losses as well as the profits.
Yes it does matter when the Govt are telling us this will make us less reliant on overseas gas and oil, the fact is it will make no difference because as soon as it is sold on international markets, it becomes overseas gas and oil, sold back to us at a higher price
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The fact is, UK oil is sold on the international market and then we’ll buy it back, the only people that benefit are the Oil Companies and their shareholders
So you neglect to include any one who has a workplace pension scheme, that could also include you!
Does it really matter where UK oil is sold? if you go right back to the start of north sea oil, the UK government decided it would not extract the resources itself but issue licences for Oil companies to extract the oil with royalty payments to the Uk (unlike the Norwegians) Once that decision had been made it made minimal difference, as in any business the contractor takes on the risk and will have to stand any costs and losses as well as the profits.
Yes it does matter when the Govt are telling us this will make us less reliant on overseas gas and oil, the fact is it will make no difference because as soon as it is sold on international markets, it becomes overseas gas and oil, sold back to us at a higher price
As things stand and until we have a secure and reliable source of energy that's not carbon based we will always need oil, now why should we beggar ourselves in the meantime by closing down our production, we have to source it anyway, so we may as well keep producing as this makes the state money, as things stand it doesn't make us any less reliant on overseas oil but that's the system we have. If it was left to someone like Starmer we would not even have the income from the licence royalties to live off. So increased carbon footprint to go along with less revenue.
So, you never did answer my original point, is it not a fact that a great many pension schemes have interests in gas and oil, which are a benefit to the holders of these company schemes?
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You’re missing the point with all due respect.
Sunak said the UK would benefit from the extraction of more North Sea oil & gas as “We wouldn’t be reliant on purchasing oil & gas from abroad”.
That’s an absolute lie.
Any oil & gas we extract is sent abroad ready for us to ‘buy it back’ which he knows well & good is the case.
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Another reason for this years high temperatures
https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2023/07/what_nasa_and_the_european_space_agency_are_admitting_but_the_media_are_failing_to_report_about_our_current_heat_wave.html
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"The current heat wave is being relentlessly blamed on increasing levels of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, but there is a much more plausible explanation, one that is virtually endorsed by two of the world's leading scientific organizations."
So, two of the world's leading scientific organisations 'virtually' endorsed it... sounds like clickbait for the hard of thinking.
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OK, guys, I'm a bit puzzled here. Apparently, environmentalists want "net zero" by 2030, but Sunak is saying 2050.
How on Earth is net zero achievable at all, whilst there is an aviation industry, and people are driving about in cars that aren't all electric?
I understand that hydrogen powered planes are supposed to be the future, but that would take decades, at an astronomical cost.
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OK, guys, I'm a bit puzzled here. Apparently, environmentalists want "net zero" by 2030, but Sunak is saying 2050.
How on Earth is net zero achievable at all, whilst there is an aviation industry, and people are driving about in cars that aren't all electric?
I understand that hydrogen powered planes are supposed to be the future, but that would take decades, at an astronomical cost.
You missing the fact that Electric Cars need, electricity and we need to be able to produce it by not burning fossil fuels.
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Plus electric cars are shite, I've got one and we can't really go far without having to top it up somewhere and that's if the electric points are available or even working.
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I know we can try to do our bit but that will be tiny in the wider scheme of things unless the world gets the USA, China and India to comply.
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So it seems we're all in agreement that net zero is unachievable. With that in mind, and given that the doom and gloom merchants are now talking about "global boiling", how long have we got left? Will we make it to the end of the season?(hopefully a promotion season).
Well we got through the Armageddon of Covid, and the Armageddon of Putin's nuclear threats. Maybe we'll get through this one.
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So it seems we're all in agreement that net zero is unachievable. With that in mind, and given that the doom and gloom merchants are now talking about "global boiling", how long have we got left? Will we make it to the end of the season?(hopefully a promotion season).
Well we got through the Armageddon of Covid, and the Armageddon of Putin's nuclear threats. Maybe we'll get through this one.
So long as we strap in, nose to the grindstone, keep focusing on all the armageddons, the world will keep on turning, or will for some.
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"The current heat wave is being relentlessly blamed on increasing levels of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, but there is a much more plausible explanation, one that is virtually endorsed by two of the world's leading scientific organizations."
So, two of the world's leading scientific organisations 'virtually' endorsed it... sounds like clickbait for the hard of thinking.
Water vapour is a very potent greenhouse gas and is often overlooked.
The 2022 Hunga Tonga underwater volcanic eruption increased the upper atmosphere water mass by about 15%. Huge volcanic eruptions on land usually block the sun and release sulphur dioxide to cause cooling.
This is getting looked in to before getting confirmed. (The climate is extremely complicated with many more variables than co2).
2023 is also the start of a new El Niño (Pacific Ocean warm phase) after a rare triple dip La Niña (Pacific Ocean cold phase) so there is lots of energy stored in the climate system. This along with Tonga and co2 emissions should of course make 2023 beat 2016 to the warmest year on record yet, let’s see.
The emergency co2 global warming signal showed in the 1970s. Warming stopped 1940s-1970s. Was the warming 1850-1940 natural variability? Because the Little Ice Age was the coldest climate phase of the entire Holocene. The end of this period is used as the climate benchmark today.
Historical accounts don’t really line up with the hockey stick graph. The Vikings harvested barley in Greenland in the Medieval Warm Period. Europe went through a very productive period here.
During the Little Ice Age, the River Thames would freeze over enough to have fairs on. The extreme weather lead to crop failures, famine and helped the Black Death to spread in malnourished populations.
The early Holocene post ice age melt was 1-2C warmer than today. The river Nile had 3 times it’s volume then and the Sahara desert was greener. Humans survived that as well as the 10C temperature swings of the Younger Dryas prior to that.
Anyone preaching the end of the world in this technological age with solutions on the horizon is hard of thinking. History also shows that not every carbon emission leads to warming. The whole world doesn’t have to get to zero.
The global burned area has also trended down in recent decades so the world isn’t “on fire”.
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Just a quick point on the Thames freezing over: that was mainly because some of the bridges had much smaller arches, thus slowing the current down between them, making that part of the river more susceptible to freezing over. The Thames never froze over where there were no bridges.
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OK, guys, I'm a bit puzzled here. Apparently, environmentalists want "net zero" by 2030, but Sunak is saying 2050.
How on Earth is net zero achievable at all, whilst there is an aviation industry, and people are driving about in cars that aren't all electric?
I understand that hydrogen powered planes are supposed to be the future, but that would take decades, at an astronomical cost.
Because we can remove CO2 from the atmosphere. Net zero doesn't mean producing zero C02. The "net" is the clue. It means removing as much every year as we produce.
Its not hard to fathom. You have a net zero effect on your toenails if you cut them by as much as they grow.
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Sunak in the wrong place on all this....I wonder why?
https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/sunaks-family-firm-signed-a-billion-dollar-deal-with-bp-before-pm-opened-new-north-sea-licences-353690/
Oops a daisy!
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The climate can be a funny thing, look at the weather in Europe circa 1846/7 caused food shortages right across Europe and revolutions in Germany, France, Austro Hungary. One thing is for sure our contribution is minimal compared to China, India and the US,plus Indonesia and the Philippines and many other developing countries, they argue that we had our chance back in the days of the Industrial Revolution and now they are entitled to do the same! They see it as a justification for their excessive Carbon footprint , well if the British had known about it A hundred plus years ago they would have done something, blaming us for their own polluting ways and using it as an excuse to keep polluting is a bit ‘Tardy’ I’m my humble opinion!
Do you have a source for that assertion?
Here you go ,one of many similar https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwj3iqbxzLmAAxXEQUEAHThpAHMQFnoECDgQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.brookings.edu%2Farticles%2Fit-is-unfair-to-push-poor-countries-to-reach-zero-carbon-emissions-too-early%2F&usg=AOvVaw2znNHzKzGp5m_8YXYTNOGr&opi=89978449
Nowhere in that excellent article do any of those countries say what you claimed they did.... namely "China, India and the US,plus Indonesia and the Philippines and many other developing countries, they argue that we had our chance back in the days of the Industrial Revolution and now they are entitled to do the same!"
Though it does quite clearly indicate that this government has consistently failed to meet it's target for annual CO2 reduction in the UK!
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The climate can be a funny thing, look at the weather in Europe circa 1846/7 caused food shortages right across Europe and revolutions in Germany, France, Austro Hungary. One thing is for sure our contribution is minimal compared to China, India and the US,plus Indonesia and the Philippines and many other developing countries, they argue that we had our chance back in the days of the Industrial Revolution and now they are entitled to do the same! They see it as a justification for their excessive Carbon footprint , well if the British had known about it A hundred plus years ago they would have done something, blaming us for their own polluting ways and using it as an excuse to keep polluting is a bit ‘Tardy’ I’m my humble opinion!
Do you have a source for that assertion?
Here you go ,one of many similar https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwj3iqbxzLmAAxXEQUEAHThpAHMQFnoECDgQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.brookings.edu%2Farticles%2Fit-is-unfair-to-push-poor-countries-to-reach-zero-carbon-emissions-too-early%2F&usg=AOvVaw2znNHzKzGp5m_8YXYTNOGr&opi=89978449
Nowhere in that excellent article do any of those countries say what you claimed they did.... namely "China, India and the US,plus Indonesia and the Philippines and many other developing countries, they argue that we had our chance back in the days of the Industrial Revolution and now they are entitled to do the same!"
Though it does quite clearly indicate that this government has consistently failed to meet it's target for annual CO2 reduction in the UK!
China has released more CO2 in just the last 8 years than the UK has in the 220 years since the industrial revolution. That's a reflection of the sheer scale of Chinese industry now and the global market it serves.
The argument that you've had your fun now it's our time to have ours is wearing thin.
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How much have they released per person? And how does that compare to the countries of the West?
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How much have they released per person? And how does that compare to the countries of the West?
A quick Google suggests China is releasing around 7.5 metric tons per person now. The UK just over 5 metric tons per person. That's according to Statista. Com
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How much have they released per person? And how does that compare to the countries of the West?
A quick Google suggests China is releasing around 7.5 metric tons per person now. The UK just over 5 metric tons per person. That's according to Statista. Com
I mean how much have they emitted per person throughout history.
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Ah, I suspect on that basis BST, China will be far behind.
If they feel they are entitled to match the worst of Western emmisions in history, which I expect will be the USA, then we really will be facing runaway climate change and we all lose.
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If UK businesses had continued buying from UK manufacturers instead of outsourcing just about everything to China then the comparison would be much more realistic.
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How much UK consumption is dependent upon imports from China?
So is the carbon emitted completely their issue, or should we accept some of the debt because we are the end users?
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How much UK consumption is dependent upon imports from China?
So is the carbon emitted completely their issue, or should we accept some of the debt because we are the end users?
China is the workshop of the world and much of the demand for their products is coming from the West. So yes, it would be fair to say these figures are distorted and the west needs to shoulder more of the responsibility.
But still, China has become the worlds biggest polluter. We can't afford to just let that pass anymore because proportionately we did worse much of it at a time when climate change wasn't so widely understood. Physics doesn't care about human politics.
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Article from George Monbiot on the Sunakkery going on with carbon capture;
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/aug/01/rishi-sunak-north-sea-planet-climate-crisis-plutocrats
Who stands to benefit from distraction and delay?
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How much UK consumption is dependent upon imports from China?
So is the carbon emitted completely their issue, or should we accept some of the debt because we are the end users?
Spot on, sending our emissions abroad is commonplace clearly. It should be calculated and based on the actual end user.
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Article from George Monbiot on the Sunakkery going on with carbon capture;
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/aug/01/rishi-sunak-north-sea-planet-climate-crisis-plutocrats
Who stands to benefit from distraction and delay?
Yeah, but China...
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A few years old now but I wonder how advanced weather modification is nowadays.
https://youtu.be/v67nPTG3Pno
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Another beacon of probity among the government ranks;
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/top-tory-theresa-villiers-70k-30675878
Conflicts of undeclared interests....surely not!
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Yes, but she's very sorry she forgot about £70k, as you do
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An optimistic solutions based approach from Hannah Ritchie, data analyst from Our World in Data;
https://youtu.be/Kl3VVrggKz4?list=TLPQMjUwOTIwMjNw4jhsWOVdbw
Like a breathe of fresh air to hear that we have all that we need to sort things out, IF we can keep the plonkers from getting in the way!
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An optimistic solutions based approach from Hannah Ritchie, data analyst from Our World in Data;
https://youtu.be/Kl3VVrggKz4?list=TLPQMjUwOTIwMjNw4jhsWOVdbw
Like a breathe of fresh air to hear that we have all that we need to sort things out, IF we can keep the plonkers from getting in the way!
if you don't feel inclined to watch it or you are pressed for time, the main points are ..........
Hannah: Yeah, I think just some of the big ones are:
1. What you choose to eat. The biggest way to cut your carbon footprint is to eat less meat and dairy, especially beef, which has the largest impact.
2. The next is about driving. If you own a car, that’s going to be by far your biggest carbon impact. So they are either driving less or shifting to an electric vehicle makes a big difference.
3. For most people, flying is going to be a big one.
4. The next big one is going to be heating your home. There is stuff like insulation, heat pumps, et cetera.
5. And then the other big one, which is for many people is not practical, but for people that own a house or can renovate is their electricity source. So installing solar panels, for example. I rent a flat, so it’s just not feasible for most people. But for those that can, then that’s also the big one.