Viking Supporters Co-operative

Viking Chat => Off Topic => Topic started by: roverstillidie91 on November 06, 2023, 02:29:22 pm

Title: Cenotaph
Post by: roverstillidie91 on November 06, 2023, 02:29:22 pm
See that JSO protesters have been doing a silent protest but then dragged by the police to the Cenotaph to make it look as if they was trying to desecrate it.

Police state before our very eyes and see Labour are supporting it as well. Tories 2.0 I mean.

Makes you wonder what this country has become.

 https://twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/1721526557896802620?s=19
Title: Re: Cenotaph
Post by: big fat yorkshire pudding on November 06, 2023, 03:59:34 pm
The police removed them from blocking a pretty important road, seems fair to me.  The police have also been quite clear that the protestors were doing nothing to the cenotaph.  Seems fair to me.

The politicians claiming otherwise need to think before they react (and apologise), all of them.
Title: Re: Cenotaph
Post by: roverstillidie91 on November 06, 2023, 06:36:22 pm
The police removed them from blocking a pretty important road, seems fair to me.  The police have also been quite clear that the protestors were doing nothing to the cenotaph.  Seems fair to me.

The politicians claiming otherwise need to think before they react (and apologise), all of them.
Just seen the latest from it.

I see MP's including 30p Lee Anderson and Yvette Cooper. Tories and the latter Labour.

Not looking great for Labour.

Clearly when you have a Fascist government who want to stop protesting.

And even the extremes of blocking roads it gets the public attention on the wrongdoings of our elected party system.

Unfortunately the majority of people will see them blocking the roads as part of the problem not the perpetrators of the VIP lane during covid.

Sad really.
Title: Re: Cenotaph
Post by: DRFC_AjA on November 06, 2023, 06:57:07 pm
Id say whats sadder and says more about you is that youve not condoned the vandalism of cenotaphs about the UK by pro palestinian mobs - how vandalising the memory of folks who helped stop the nazis has anything to do with the apparent "free" Palestine - youve simply glossed over that to make some 'saddo tin hat, its the governments fault ive failed in life' point about a police state.

Oh and of course lefty word bingo - "fascists" ding ding. Winner winner. Im sure anyone who defends the cenotaphs is a NAzi, skinhead, uneducated couth in your eyes. Of course, the pig headed (pun intended) Muslim extremists and uneducated Antifa who have hijacked what should genuinely be a valid discussion about the innocent lives being lost are just simply 'protestors', 'free speech', etc
Title: Re: Cenotaph
Post by: Bristol Red Rover on November 06, 2023, 07:16:07 pm
Id say whats sadder and says more about you is that youve not condoned the vandalism of cenotaphs about the UK by pro palestinian mobs - how vandalising the memory of folks who helped stop the nazis has anything to do with the apparent "free" Palestine - youve simply glossed over that to make some 'saddo tin hat, its the governments fault ive failed in life' point about a police state.

Oh and of course lefty word bingo - "fascists" ding ding. Winner winner. Im sure anyone who defends the cenotaphs is a NAzi, skinhead, uneducated couth in your eyes. Of course, the pig headed (pun intended) Muslim extremists and uneducated Antifa who have hijacked what should genuinely be a valid discussion about the innocent lives being lost are just simply 'protestors', 'free speech', etc
For real?
Title: Re: Cenotaph
Post by: Bristol Red Rover on November 06, 2023, 07:20:13 pm
Hopefully Bristol City Council get moved on too then. I spent ages trying to negotiate a maze of recently blocked roads. I think it's to protect students who are notoriously bad at walking across roads and avoiding traffic. Maybe students are endangered, I don't know.
Title: Re: Cenotaph
Post by: roverstillidie91 on November 06, 2023, 08:22:03 pm
Id say whats sadder and says more about you is that youve not condoned the vandalism of cenotaphs about the UK by pro palestinian mobs - how vandalising the memory of folks who helped stop the nazis has anything to do with the apparent "free" Palestine - youve simply glossed over that to make some 'saddo tin hat, its the governments fault ive failed in life' point about a police state.

Oh and of course lefty word bingo - "fascists" ding ding. Winner winner. Im sure anyone who defends the cenotaphs is a NAzi, skinhead, uneducated couth in your eyes. Of course, the pig headed (pun intended) Muslim extremists and uneducated Antifa who have hijacked what should genuinely be a valid discussion about the innocent lives being lost are just simply 'protestors', 'free speech', etc
I'm assuming that's aimed for me?


The purpose of the topic was to discuss the item mentioned not Palestine.

For obvious reasons I condemn any vandalism of the cenotaph as I do have relatives who fought and was killed in the war.

So how isn't this government not fascist?

I am doing pretty well in my life if that's what you are referencing too.

You are just stereotyping. I am confused as to what you're getting at.
Title: Re: Cenotaph
Post by: Bentley Bullet on November 06, 2023, 08:29:05 pm
The police removed them from blocking a pretty important road, seems fair to me.  The police have also been quite clear that the protestors were doing nothing to the cenotaph.  Seems fair to me.

The politicians claiming otherwise need to think before they react (and apologise), all of them.
Just seen the latest from it.

I see MP's including 30p Lee Anderson and Yvette Cooper. Tories and the latter Labour.

Not looking great for Labour.

Clearly when you have a Fascist government who want to stop protesting.

And even the extremes of blocking roads it gets the public attention on the wrongdoings of our elected party system.

Unfortunately the majority of people will see them blocking the roads as part of the problem not the perpetrators of the VIP lane during covid.

Sad really.
Fascist government! If we really had a fascist government you would be imprisoned or killed for your opinions expressed on this thread!
Title: Re: Cenotaph
Post by: roverstillidie91 on November 06, 2023, 08:49:47 pm
The police removed them from blocking a pretty important road, seems fair to me.  The police have also been quite clear that the protestors were doing nothing to the cenotaph.  Seems fair to me.

The politicians claiming otherwise need to think before they react (and apologise), all of them.
Just seen the latest from it.

I see MP's including 30p Lee Anderson and Yvette Cooper. Tories and the latter Labour.

Not looking great for Labour.

Clearly when you have a Fascist government who want to stop protesting.

And even the extremes of blocking roads it gets the public attention on the wrongdoings of our elected party system.

Unfortunately the majority of people will see them blocking the roads as part of the problem not the perpetrators of the VIP lane during covid.

Sad really.
Fascist government! If we really had a fascist government you would be imprisoned or killed for your opinions expressed on this thread!
That's what it is slowly becoming.  Facts show that is how the Germany Nazi with Hitler started with policies like theres.

I imagine though you aren't going to agree with what I'm saying.
Title: Re: Cenotaph
Post by: wilts rover on November 06, 2023, 09:02:50 pm
Id say whats sadder and says more about you is that youve not condoned the vandalism of cenotaphs about the UK by pro palestinian mobs - how vandalising the memory of folks who helped stop the nazis has anything to do with the apparent "free" Palestine - youve simply glossed over that to make some 'saddo tin hat, its the governments fault ive failed in life' point about a police state.

Oh and of course lefty word bingo - "fascists" ding ding. Winner winner. Im sure anyone who defends the cenotaphs is a NAzi, skinhead, uneducated couth in your eyes. Of course, the pig headed (pun intended) Muslim extremists and uneducated Antifa who have hijacked what should genuinely be a valid discussion about the innocent lives being lost are just simply 'protestors', 'free speech', etc

What's even sadder is someone making stories up about war memorials being vandalised by certain people they don't like.

I note you ignore the far-right, anti-muslim, anti-immigrant protests and marches. As they do desecrate war memorials:

https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/north-wales-war-memorial-desecrated-25513521
Title: Re: Cenotaph
Post by: wilts rover on November 06, 2023, 09:06:54 pm
The police removed them from blocking a pretty important road, seems fair to me.  The police have also been quite clear that the protestors were doing nothing to the cenotaph.  Seems fair to me.

The politicians claiming otherwise need to think before they react (and apologise), all of them.
Just seen the latest from it.

I see MP's including 30p Lee Anderson and Yvette Cooper. Tories and the latter Labour.

Not looking great for Labour.

Clearly when you have a Fascist government who want to stop protesting.

And even the extremes of blocking roads it gets the public attention on the wrongdoings of our elected party system.

Unfortunately the majority of people will see them blocking the roads as part of the problem not the perpetrators of the VIP lane during covid.

Sad really.
Fascist government! If we really had a fascist government you would be imprisoned or killed for your opinions expressed on this thread!
That's what it is slowly becoming.  Facts show that is how the Germany Nazi with Hitler started with policies like theres.

I imagine though you aren't going to agree with what I'm saying.

The German government only banned marches and protests by groups they didn't like. They allowed the groups they did like to go about unhindered.

Draw your own conclusions on why certain posters like to attack certain groups. But not others.
Title: Re: Cenotaph
Post by: Bentley Bullet on November 06, 2023, 09:11:03 pm
The police removed them from blocking a pretty important road, seems fair to me.  The police have also been quite clear that the protestors were doing nothing to the cenotaph.  Seems fair to me.

The politicians claiming otherwise need to think before they react (and apologise), all of them.
Just seen the latest from it.

I see MP's including 30p Lee Anderson and Yvette Cooper. Tories and the latter Labour.

Not looking great for Labour.

Clearly when you have a Fascist government who want to stop protesting.

And even the extremes of blocking roads it gets the public attention on the wrongdoings of our elected party system.

Unfortunately the majority of people will see them blocking the roads as part of the problem not the perpetrators of the VIP lane during covid.

Sad really.
Fascist government! If we really had a fascist government you would be imprisoned or killed for your opinions expressed on this thread!
That's what it is slowly becoming.  Facts show that is how the Germany Nazi with Hitler started with policies like theres.

I imagine though you aren't going to agree with what I'm saying.
No, I'm not. Because it's b*llocks.
Title: Re: Cenotaph
Post by: roverstillidie91 on November 06, 2023, 11:28:28 pm
The police removed them from blocking a pretty important road, seems fair to me.  The police have also been quite clear that the protestors were doing nothing to the cenotaph.  Seems fair to me.

The politicians claiming otherwise need to think before they react (and apologise), all of them.
Just seen the latest from it.

I see MP's including 30p Lee Anderson and Yvette Cooper. Tories and the latter Labour.

Not looking great for Labour.

Clearly when you have a Fascist government who want to stop protesting.

And even the extremes of blocking roads it gets the public attention on the wrongdoings of our elected party system.

Unfortunately the majority of people will see them blocking the roads as part of the problem not the perpetrators of the VIP lane during covid.

Sad really.
Fascist government! If we really had a fascist government you would be imprisoned or killed for your opinions expressed on this thread!
That's what it is slowly becoming.  Facts show that is how the Germany Nazi with Hitler started with policies like theres.

I imagine though you aren't going to agree with what I'm saying.
No, I'm not. Because it's b*llocks.
It is just my opinion, other people will support it just like people will disagree with it.

You seem very wound up by my comments.
Title: Re: Cenotaph
Post by: BobG on November 07, 2023, 03:01:32 am
It is incontrovertible that this is how fascism began in Germany. So that part at least is indubitably not b*llocks.

BobG
Title: Re: Cenotaph
Post by: Bentley Bullet on November 07, 2023, 07:45:00 am
Clearly "When you have a Fascist government who want to stop protesting", they will imprison or kill protesters.

It is legal to protest in the UK, and the right to protest in England and Wales is protected under the European Convention of Human Rights. However, it is important to note that this legal right only applies to peaceful demonstrations, and does not extend to any acts of violence or damage caused during a protest.

That is not fascism, that is just stopping nutcases with too much time on their hands from causing disruption.
Title: Re: Cenotaph
Post by: roverstillidie91 on November 07, 2023, 09:12:06 am
Clearly "When you have a Fascist government who want to stop protesting", they will imprison or kill protesters.

It is legal to protest in the UK, and the right to protest in England and Wales is protected under the European Convention of Human Rights. However, it is important to note that this legal right only applies to peaceful demonstrations, and does not extend to any acts of violence or damage caused during a protest.

That is not fascism, that is just stopping nutcases with too much time on their hands from causing disruption.
I understand what you're saying however even those protests are peaceful and aren't causing any damage. It's merely a tactic to get the government to listen.

Clearly the government are losing the argument with the public order bill, anti strike bill.

They are even trying to stop journalists reporting on things. That is a dictatorial government if something similar happened in Russia or China we'd be condemning it.

They are making it illegal even to peacefully protest as it doesn't suit their agenda.

Brexit was to get rid of people's rights and they want us to come out of the ECHR.
Title: Re: Cenotaph
Post by: big fat yorkshire pudding on November 07, 2023, 09:34:45 am
If they wanted to do all of that they'd have done it by now with a conservative majority, they haven't and won't.

These protests are not peaceful, blocking roads isn't peaceful.  You have to laugh at just stop oil. In the recent court case one of them wanted a delay because they'll be on holiday flying to India, you couldn't make it up...
Title: Re: Cenotaph
Post by: ravenrover on November 07, 2023, 09:35:07 am
I see 30pLee deleted his tweet when the Met gave the facts of the matter
Title: Re: Cenotaph
Post by: Bentley Bullet on November 07, 2023, 09:43:23 am
Clearly "When you have a Fascist government who want to stop protesting", they will imprison or kill protesters.

It is legal to protest in the UK, and the right to protest in England and Wales is protected under the European Convention of Human Rights. However, it is important to note that this legal right only applies to peaceful demonstrations, and does not extend to any acts of violence or damage caused during a protest.

That is not fascism, that is just stopping nutcases with too much time on their hands from causing disruption.
I understand what you're saying however even those protests are peaceful and aren't causing any damage. It's merely a tactic to get the government to listen.

Clearly the government are losing the argument with the public order bill, anti strike bill.

They are even trying to stop journalists reporting on things. That is a dictatorial government if something similar happened in Russia or China we'd be condemning it.

They are making it illegal even to peacefully protest as it doesn't suit their agenda.

Brexit was to get rid of people's rights and they want us to come out of the ECHR.
Peaceful means quiet and free from disturbance. Blocking roads, for instance, is disturbing the peace in that it violates public order by disturbing the public, and therefore incites violence.
Title: Re: Cenotaph
Post by: TommyC on November 07, 2023, 09:49:16 am
The conditions that enabled fascism were a direct result of the limp wristed leadership of the Weimar Government after WW1. The effects of rampant hyper-inflation resulting in middle classes being made poorer, losing their homes and businesses and working people being hit ever harder in the pocket. Add to that the complete national and very deliberate humiliation of Germany on the word stage after WW1 and the total loss of national identity/pride and you have a perfect breeding ground for a nationalist/fascist type party.

The parallels are (worryingly) there but they were sown a long time ago, way before GB News and Russia started stirring the pot. I'd suggest a good starting point to look for where this started would be 1997 onwards and the increasingly "progressive" policies of successive governments since then.

You take away the national identity of a country, tell people they're thick racists for caring about immigration and loss of national identity for long enough and you're going to see a reaction to that which extremist parties will be able to exploit. The national flag of this country is now something we're supposed to be ashamed of (compare that to Scotland or Wales who take pride in their flag) bashed over the head about our "white-privilege" and admonished for events taking place hundreds of years ago that led to us becoming a global superpower. Statues torn down and history erased. You're damn right, fascism is on the rise. Fascism is not however purely a preserve of the right.

We absolutely are in times that are comparable to the rise of fascism in Germany, but people may not like the inconvenient truth as to why we find ourselves here.

Title: Re: Cenotaph
Post by: idler on November 07, 2023, 09:51:15 am
Like most groups and protests they usually attract a minority that just want confrontation and aggravation which is counter productive to the aims of the majority.
Title: Re: Cenotaph
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on November 07, 2023, 10:13:20 am
The conditions that enabled fascism were a direct result of the limp wristed leadership of the Weimar Government after WW1. The effects of rampant hyper-inflation resulting in middle classes being made poorer, losing their homes and businesses and working people being hit ever harder in the pocket. Add to that the complete national and very deliberate humiliation of Germany on the word stage after WW1 and the total loss of national identity/pride and you have a perfect breeding ground for a nationalist/fascist type party.

The parallels are (worryingly) there but they were sown a long time ago, way before GB News and Russia started stirring the pot. I'd suggest a good starting point to look for where this started would be 1997 onwards and the increasingly "progressive" policies of successive governments since then.

You take away the national identity of a country, tell people they're thick racists for caring about immigration and loss of national identity for long enough and you're going to see a reaction to that which extremist parties will be able to exploit. The national flag of this country is now something we're supposed to be ashamed of (compare that to Scotland or Wales who take pride in their flag) bashed over the head about our "white-privilege" and admonished for events taking place hundreds of years ago that led to us becoming a global superpower. Statues torn down and history erased. You're damn right, fascism is on the rise. Fascism is not however purely a preserve of the right.

We absolutely are in times that are comparable to the rise of fascism in Germany, but people may not like the inconvenient truth as to why we find ourselves here.



Point of fact. It wasn't the hyperinflation that led to the rise of the Nazis. It was the Austerity policies of the Brüning Government.
Title: Re: Cenotaph
Post by: TommyC on November 07, 2023, 10:23:23 am
The conditions that enabled fascism were a direct result of the limp wristed leadership of the Weimar Government after WW1. The effects of rampant hyper-inflation resulting in middle classes being made poorer, losing their homes and businesses and working people being hit ever harder in the pocket. Add to that the complete national and very deliberate humiliation of Germany on the word stage after WW1 and the total loss of national identity/pride and you have a perfect breeding ground for a nationalist/fascist type party.

The parallels are (worryingly) there but they were sown a long time ago, way before GB News and Russia started stirring the pot. I'd suggest a good starting point to look for where this started would be 1997 onwards and the increasingly "progressive" policies of successive governments since then.

You take away the national identity of a country, tell people they're thick racists for caring about immigration and loss of national identity for long enough and you're going to see a reaction to that which extremist parties will be able to exploit. The national flag of this country is now something we're supposed to be ashamed of (compare that to Scotland or Wales who take pride in their flag) bashed over the head about our "white-privilege" and admonished for events taking place hundreds of years ago that led to us becoming a global superpower. Statues torn down and history erased. You're damn right, fascism is on the rise. Fascism is not however purely a preserve of the right.

We absolutely are in times that are comparable to the rise of fascism in Germany, but people may not like the inconvenient truth as to why we find ourselves here.



Point of fact. It wasn't the hyperinflation that led to the rise of the Nazis. It was the Austerity policies of the Brüning Government.

It isn't a point of fact at all. That's your opinion.

Richard Evans agrees with me so i'm alright with that....
Title: Re: Cenotaph
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on November 07, 2023, 11:31:12 am
The conditions that enabled fascism were a direct result of the limp wristed leadership of the Weimar Government after WW1. The effects of rampant hyper-inflation resulting in middle classes being made poorer, losing their homes and businesses and working people being hit ever harder in the pocket. Add to that the complete national and very deliberate humiliation of Germany on the word stage after WW1 and the total loss of national identity/pride and you have a perfect breeding ground for a nationalist/fascist type party.

The parallels are (worryingly) there but they were sown a long time ago, way before GB News and Russia started stirring the pot. I'd suggest a good starting point to look for where this started would be 1997 onwards and the increasingly "progressive" policies of successive governments since then.

You take away the national identity of a country, tell people they're thick racists for caring about immigration and loss of national identity for long enough and you're going to see a reaction to that which extremist parties will be able to exploit. The national flag of this country is now something we're supposed to be ashamed of (compare that to Scotland or Wales who take pride in their flag) bashed over the head about our "white-privilege" and admonished for events taking place hundreds of years ago that led to us becoming a global superpower. Statues torn down and history erased. You're damn right, fascism is on the rise. Fascism is not however purely a preserve of the right.

We absolutely are in times that are comparable to the rise of fascism in Germany, but people may not like the inconvenient truth as to why we find ourselves here.



Point of fact. It wasn't the hyperinflation that led to the rise of the Nazis. It was the Austerity policies of the Brüning Government.

It isn't a point of fact at all. That's your opinion.

Richard Evans agrees with me so i'm alright with that....

There are recent, detailed academic studies that show a clear link, city by city, with the economic effect of Brüning's Austerity and the increase in Nazi Party vote share in local elections.

Then there's the obvious big picture. Hyperinflation occured in 1922-23. By mid 1924 it was over. Yet the Nazi party and it's partner the NSFB won only 2.5-3% of the vote in 1924-28. By 1932, almost a decade after Hyperinflation, but immediately after Brüning's Austerity, they were on 37%.


Ian Kershaw notes that without the collapse due to the Brüning Austerity (unemployment up to 9 million, from 1.5 million in 1929, economic output down 42% on 1929) it is inconceivable that Hitler would have come to power.

Whichever way you look at it though, comparisons with modern Britain are a bit OTT.

The Tory Austerity undoubtedly led to the rise of Farage and all the shite that led to, but Cameron wasn't Brüning, our Austerity wasn't anywhere near as vicious,  and Farage wasn't Hitler.

Similarly, 10% inflation over the past couple of years is scarcely Weimar Take 2.

The issue is, Braverman IS a fascist at heart. She has nothing to offer but hatred of The Other and division. She's gambling that that will be enough to win her the Tory leadership. And given that the golf club bores that make up the party membership elected someone as patently batshit as Liz Truss, who knows? She might be right. But no more than the nastiest, most bigoted 10-15% of the UK population would ever vote for a party led by a ghoul like her.
Title: Re: Cenotaph
Post by: Sprotyrover on November 07, 2023, 11:56:58 am
Germany was not defeated in the First World War, that caused a great deal of Ill feeling and Hitler played on it and German national pride.
Title: Re: Cenotaph
Post by: Bristol Red Rover on November 07, 2023, 03:49:24 pm
If they wanted to do all of that they'd have done it by now with a conservative majority, they haven't and won't.

These protests are not peaceful, blocking roads isn't peaceful.  You have to laugh at just stop oil. In the recent court case one of them wanted a delay because they'll be on holiday flying to India, you couldn't make it up...
That's an individual. The issue is far bigger than that. Peaceful protests are the bottom line to keep free. If a few individuals are not peaceful, that is no reason to stop a protest. It's also a fact that governments over the years, centuries, have employed agent provocateurs to give them the permission to go in hard with army or police. In a situation where police are predicting violence in order to stop protests, there is a lot of room for abusive control, and steps towards authoritarianism.

It's all about keeping the masses under control, subservient.
Title: Re: Cenotaph
Post by: Sprotyrover on November 07, 2023, 04:46:25 pm
If they wanted to do all of that they'd have done it by now with a conservative majority, they haven't and won't.

These protests are not peaceful, blocking roads isn't peaceful.  You have to laugh at just stop oil. In the recent court case one of them wanted a delay because they'll be on holiday flying to India, you couldn't make it up...
That's an individual. The issue is far bigger than that. Peaceful protests are the bottom line to keep free. If a few individuals are not peaceful, that is no reason to stop a protest. It's also a fact that governments over the years, centuries, have employed agent provocateurs to give them the permission to go in hard with army or police. In a situation where police are predicting violence in order to stop protests, there is a lot of room for abusive control, and steps towards authoritarianism.

It's all about keeping the masses under control, subservient.
Sounds like PUTINS Russia!
Title: Re: Cenotaph
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on November 07, 2023, 04:52:36 pm
It's both simpler and more sophisticated than what BRR says.

It IS about controlling people, but not the marchers.

Braverman has absolutely nothing to offer apart from keeping ill-informed, angry people ill-informed and angry. She controls them by feeding them a diet of "Woke" folk who have the temerity to demonstrate on issues that are "clearly" only things that rich liberal-minded people would care about. The current legislation just keeps such issues in the news, whether the marches go ahead or not.

Job done.
Title: Re: Cenotaph
Post by: tyke1962 on November 07, 2023, 05:45:46 pm
If anyone proves the saying " That an empty vessel makes the most noise " it's Braverman .

A Poundland Fascist and I'm being generous .

The women is absolutely gutless .

If we were unfortunate enough to ever get a real far right government Braverman would probably be one of its victims .
Title: Re: Cenotaph
Post by: scawsby steve on November 07, 2023, 06:55:23 pm
The conditions that enabled fascism were a direct result of the limp wristed leadership of the Weimar Government after WW1. The effects of rampant hyper-inflation resulting in middle classes being made poorer, losing their homes and businesses and working people being hit ever harder in the pocket. Add to that the complete national and very deliberate humiliation of Germany on the word stage after WW1 and the total loss of national identity/pride and you have a perfect breeding ground for a nationalist/fascist type party.

The parallels are (worryingly) there but they were sown a long time ago, way before GB News and Russia started stirring the pot. I'd suggest a good starting point to look for where this started would be 1997 onwards and the increasingly "progressive" policies of successive governments since then.

You take away the national identity of a country, tell people they're thick racists for caring about immigration and loss of national identity for long enough and you're going to see a reaction to that which extremist parties will be able to exploit. The national flag of this country is now something we're supposed to be ashamed of (compare that to Scotland or Wales who take pride in their flag) bashed over the head about our "white-privilege" and admonished for events taking place hundreds of years ago that led to us becoming a global superpower. Statues torn down and history erased. You're damn right, fascism is on the rise. Fascism is not however purely a preserve of the right.

We absolutely are in times that are comparable to the rise of fascism in Germany, but people may not like the inconvenient truth as to why we find ourselves here.

Good post, Tommy. I warned people on here about Labour Party members accusing Brexit voters in staunch Labour strongholds of being thick, racist, gammon faced old farts, and the effect it would have on the 2019 GE. Then there was lardarse Thornberry with her "white van man" insults.

To be fair to Starmer, despite looking unimpressive, he seems to be trying to nip this kind of thing in the bud with potential Labour voters, insisting that people need to move on from Brexit.
Title: Re: Cenotaph
Post by: drfchound on November 07, 2023, 06:58:16 pm
SS, one or two posters make out that Tory voters voted for Brexit.
It appears that they never consider that some Labour supporters might have voted that way as well.
Title: Re: Cenotaph
Post by: Bristol Red Rover on November 07, 2023, 07:05:07 pm
If they wanted to do all of that they'd have done it by now with a conservative majority, they haven't and won't.

These protests are not peaceful, blocking roads isn't peaceful.  You have to laugh at just stop oil. In the recent court case one of them wanted a delay because they'll be on holiday flying to India, you couldn't make it up...
That's an individual. The issue is far bigger than that. Peaceful protests are the bottom line to keep free. If a few individuals are not peaceful, that is no reason to stop a protest. It's also a fact that governments over the years, centuries, have employed agent provocateurs to give them the permission to go in hard with army or police. In a situation where police are predicting violence in order to stop protests, there is a lot of room for abusive control, and steps towards authoritarianism.

It's all about keeping the masses under control, subservient.
Sounds like PUTINS Russia!
Blame it on the other nasty leaders - keep doffing your cap son.
Title: Re: Cenotaph
Post by: Glyn_Wigley on November 07, 2023, 07:05:55 pm
The conditions that enabled fascism were a direct result of the limp wristed leadership of the Weimar Government after WW1. The effects of rampant hyper-inflation resulting in middle classes being made poorer, losing their homes and businesses and working people being hit ever harder in the pocket. Add to that the complete national and very deliberate humiliation of Germany on the word stage after WW1 and the total loss of national identity/pride and you have a perfect breeding ground for a nationalist/fascist type party.

The parallels are (worryingly) there but they were sown a long time ago, way before GB News and Russia started stirring the pot. I'd suggest a good starting point to look for where this started would be 1997 onwards and the increasingly "progressive" policies of successive governments since then.

You take away the national identity of a country, tell people they're thick racists for caring about immigration and loss of national identity for long enough and you're going to see a reaction to that which extremist parties will be able to exploit. The national flag of this country is now something we're supposed to be ashamed of (compare that to Scotland or Wales who take pride in their flag) bashed over the head about our "white-privilege" and admonished for events taking place hundreds of years ago that led to us becoming a global superpower. Statues torn down and history erased. You're damn right, fascism is on the rise. Fascism is not however purely a preserve of the right.

We absolutely are in times that are comparable to the rise of fascism in Germany, but people may not like the inconvenient truth as to why we find ourselves here.

Good post, Tommy. I warned people on here about Labour Party members accusing Brexit voters in staunch Labour strongholds of being thick, racist, gammon faced old farts, and the effect it would have on the 2019 GE. Then there was lardarse Thornberry with her "white van man" insults.

To be fair to Starmer, despite looking unimpressive, he seems to be trying to nip this kind of thing in the bud with potential Labour voters, insisting that people need to move on from Brexit.

Unfortunately Tommy leaves out the bit about the difficulties the Weimar Government had with the Freikorps and rampant political violence across the country and also makes it sound like the hyperinflational was the result of weak government rather than the completely unrealistic reparations forced upon Germany without any hope of the payments being kept up due to the stringent conditions placed upon them by France.
Title: Re: Cenotaph
Post by: tyke1962 on November 07, 2023, 07:13:02 pm
SS, one or two posters make out that Tory voters voted for Brexit.
It appears that they never consider that some Labour supporters might have voted that way as well.

Best example of Labour was Chuka Umunna who was on through the night on the BBC as the results came in .

Even if this referendum is decided by one vote we have to respect the result whoever wins he says has Remain forged ahead before 4am .

He then spent the next four years doing exactly the opposite .
Title: Re: Cenotaph
Post by: roverstillidie91 on November 07, 2023, 07:30:35 pm
If they wanted to do all of that they'd have done it by now with a conservative majority, they haven't and won't.

These protests are not peaceful, blocking roads isn't peaceful.  You have to laugh at just stop oil. In the recent court case one of them wanted a delay because they'll be on holiday flying to India, you couldn't make it up...
That's an individual. The issue is far bigger than that. Peaceful protests are the bottom line to keep free. If a few individuals are not peaceful, that is no reason to stop a protest. It's also a fact that governments over the years, centuries, have employed agent provocateurs to give them the permission to go in hard with army or police. In a situation where police are predicting violence in order to stop protests, there is a lot of room for abusive control, and steps towards authoritarianism.

It's all about keeping the masses under control, subservient.
Sounds like PUTINS Russia!
How the UK acts if other countries did the same as we are doing and censoring people then our mainstream media and press would be the first to criticise.

The problem is most of our general public are easily manipulated and the media and press likes of The Sun, Daily Mail are good at it.

Divide and rule it is known as
Title: Re: Cenotaph
Post by: SydneyRover on November 07, 2023, 11:19:50 pm
The conditions that enabled fascism were a direct result of the limp wristed leadership of the Weimar Government after WW1. The effects of rampant hyper-inflation resulting in middle classes being made poorer, losing their homes and businesses and working people being hit ever harder in the pocket. Add to that the complete national and very deliberate humiliation of Germany on the word stage after WW1 and the total loss of national identity/pride and you have a perfect breeding ground for a nationalist/fascist type party.

The parallels are (worryingly) there but they were sown a long time ago, way before GB News and Russia started stirring the pot. I'd suggest a good starting point to look for where this started would be 1997 onwards and the increasingly "progressive" policies of successive governments since then.

You take away the national identity of a country, tell people they're thick racists for caring about immigration and loss of national identity for long enough and you're going to see a reaction to that which extremist parties will be able to exploit. The national flag of this country is now something we're supposed to be ashamed of (compare that to Scotland or Wales who take pride in their flag) bashed over the head about our "white-privilege" and admonished for events taking place hundreds of years ago that led to us becoming a global superpower. Statues torn down and history erased. You're damn right, fascism is on the rise. Fascism is not however purely a preserve of the right.

We absolutely are in times that are comparable to the rise of fascism in Germany, but people may not like the inconvenient truth as to why we find ourselves here.

Good post, Tommy. I warned people on here about Labour Party members accusing Brexit voters in staunch Labour strongholds of being thick, racist, gammon faced old farts, and the effect it would have on the 2019 GE. Then there was lardarse Thornberry with her "white van man" insults.

To be fair to Starmer, despite looking unimpressive, he seems to be trying to nip this kind of thing in the bud with potential Labour voters, insisting that people need to move on from Brexit.

unto thine own self be true, Steve, the parrot will support you regardless
Title: Re: Cenotaph
Post by: scawsby steve on November 07, 2023, 11:21:22 pm
SS, one or two posters make out that Tory voters voted for Brexit.
It appears that they never consider that some Labour supporters might have voted that way as well.

Dead right, mate. In fact, that "some" was practically the whole of the North-East.
Title: Re: Cenotaph
Post by: SydneyRover on November 08, 2023, 12:34:54 am
With economical strokes of the keyboard thy wisdom is confirmed

QI: Battle of the signs

R. B. S Hammond began the weekly ritual of the St. Barnabas message board. His witty and often thought provoking messages were what made St Barnabas famous. Some include; "Drink and trouble are like petrol and fire", "Alcohol makes your mind stagger long before your feet do", "Do not nurse a grievance, teach it to walk" and "Divorce is the hash we make from domestic scraps". Continuing on the tradition was Robert Forsyth, who found that he had competition from Arthur Elliot, publican of the nearby pub, Broadway Hotel. The two noticeboards would often display subtle wordplay, including the following:[13]

St Barnabas: "This church is for sinners"
Broadway Hotel: "This pub is for drinkers"
St Barnabas: "Money does not make you happy"
Broadway Hotel: "I'd rather be rich and happy than poor and happy"
St Barnabas: "God made sex for marriage not for money"
Broadway Hotel: "Wish he had made money for marriage"
St Barnabas: "Free Grace brothers and sisters" (St Barnabas was next to a Grace Brothers store)
Broadway Hotel: "Free David Jones too" (referring to another Australian department store)
St Barnabas: "The best things in life aren't things"
Broadway Hotel: "Things are not all what they seem to be"

Nowadays and perhaps somewhat ironically, after some services, particularly the later services, parishioners share fellowship with each other at the pub opposite St. Barnabas.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Barnabas_Anglican_Church,_Broadway
Title: Re: Cenotaph
Post by: drfchound on November 08, 2023, 08:37:18 am
One is posting some strange things.
Title: Re: Cenotaph
Post by: selby on November 08, 2023, 11:22:32 am
  7 years of moaning and still sat on their arses doing nothing about it.
   What a great country we have got, just look at that Quisling Starmer, if he was Russian he would have been shot or poisoned. as a traitor catching the train to Paris to overturn and undermine an elected government and the peoples wishes they voted for.
  And he on here is held up by people on here as a bastion of democracy, the S**TH***E.
Title: Re: Cenotaph
Post by: Bentley Bullet on November 08, 2023, 11:51:55 am
SS, one or two posters make out that Tory voters voted for Brexit.
It appears that they never consider that some Labour supporters might have voted that way as well.

Dead right, mate. In fact, that "some" was practically the whole of the North-East.
Apparently, 37% of thick, racist, gammon-faced old fart Labour supporters voted to leave the EU.
Title: Re: Cenotaph
Post by: normal rules on November 08, 2023, 05:37:03 pm
I see the cenotaph in Rochdale has been desecrated by some pro palestinian low life (s)
This wont end well.

 
Title: Re: Cenotaph
Post by: wilts rover on November 08, 2023, 06:00:54 pm
SS, one or two posters make out that Tory voters voted for Brexit.
It appears that they never consider that some Labour supporters might have voted that way as well.

Dead right, mate. In fact, that "some" was practically the whole of the North-East.
Apparently, 37% of thick, racist, gammon-faced old fart Labour supporters voted to leave the EU.

Did all these 37% then vote Labour in the 2019?

Or all youincluding among your 'thick, racist, gammon-faced old fart Labour supporters' people who subsequently didn't vote Labour? But voted for a party they were happier with?
Title: Re: Cenotaph
Post by: wilts rover on November 08, 2023, 06:03:48 pm
I see the cenotaph in Rochdale has been desecrated by some pro palestinian low life (s)
This wont end well.

 

I see the cenotaph in Rochdale was vandalised on Tuesday night. After you started this thread and after a number of other far-right agitators talked about centotaphs being vandalised. Which up until then hadn't been.

How convenient.
Title: Re: Cenotaph
Post by: Bentley Bullet on November 08, 2023, 06:14:29 pm
SS, one or two posters make out that Tory voters voted for Brexit.
It appears that they never consider that some Labour supporters might have voted that way as well.

Dead right, mate. In fact, that "some" was practically the whole of the North-East.
Apparently, 37% of thick, racist, gammon-faced old fart Labour supporters voted to leave the EU.

Did all these 37% then vote Labour in the 2019?

Or all youincluding among your 'thick, racist, gammon-faced old fart Labour supporters' people who subsequently didn't vote Labour? But voted for a party they were happier with?
According to the figures, 37% of Labour supporters voted to leave the EU in 2016. How many of them came to their senses and didn't vote for Labour in 2019 I don't know.

Do you?
Title: Re: Cenotaph
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on November 08, 2023, 07:12:14 pm
Why does everything always come back to Brexit with some people?

It's over. You won. Move on.
Title: Re: Cenotaph
Post by: Bentley Bullet on November 08, 2023, 07:16:57 pm
Who won?
Title: Re: Cenotaph
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on November 08, 2023, 07:25:32 pm
Who won?

You won the argument in 2019. You wanted Brexit then. You got it.

Move on. It's ancient history.
Title: Re: Cenotaph
Post by: Bentley Bullet on November 08, 2023, 07:41:34 pm
I didn't vote Brexit, but I believed then, and still do in a democratic vote standing and so accepted the result, becoming a fully-fledged Leaver, as a good loser should. 

Unlike you and your mates.
Title: Re: Cenotaph
Post by: Bristol Red Rover on November 08, 2023, 07:47:11 pm
I didn't vote Brexit, but I believed then, and still do in a democratic vote standing and so accepted the result, becoming a fully-fledged Leaver, as a good loser should. 

Unlike you and your mates.
Is the Centotaph also for Brexit warriors?

And Democracy.... is that where people make choices depending on what the elites tell them and what they censor? Keep doffing.
Title: Re: Cenotaph
Post by: drfchound on November 08, 2023, 08:02:26 pm
SS, one or two posters make out that Tory voters voted for Brexit.
It appears that they never consider that some Labour supporters might have voted that way as well.

Dead right, mate. In fact, that "some" was practically the whole of the North-East.
Apparently, 37% of thick, racist, gammon-faced old fart Labour supporters voted to leave the EU.

Did all these 37% then vote Labour in the 2019?

Or all youincluding among your 'thick, racist, gammon-faced old fart Labour supporters' people who subsequently didn't vote Labour? But voted for a party they were happier with?

Wilts, just a thought here, do all the golf club bores, who get mentioned on here frequently, vote Tory or do some of them vote Labour.
Title: Re: Cenotaph
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on November 08, 2023, 08:47:12 pm
I didn't vote Brexit, but I believed then, and still do in a democratic vote standing and so accepted the result, becoming a fully-fledged Leaver, as a good loser should. 

Unlike you and your mates.

Yes. I know that's what you did. Why are you still rambling on about it? Move on. You won.
Title: Re: Cenotaph
Post by: wilts rover on November 08, 2023, 08:59:17 pm
SS, one or two posters make out that Tory voters voted for Brexit.
It appears that they never consider that some Labour supporters might have voted that way as well.

Dead right, mate. In fact, that "some" was practically the whole of the North-East.
Apparently, 37% of thick, racist, gammon-faced old fart Labour supporters voted to leave the EU.

Did all these 37% then vote Labour in the 2019?

Or all youincluding among your 'thick, racist, gammon-faced old fart Labour supporters' people who subsequently didn't vote Labour? But voted for a party they were happier with?

Wilts, just a thought here, do all the golf club bores, who get mentioned on here frequently, vote Tory or do some of them vote Labour.


I have never been in a golf club in my life hound. Can I leave it to you to find out.
Title: Re: Cenotaph
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on November 08, 2023, 09:00:21 pm
I've been in a few. Never been as bored in my life.
Title: Re: Cenotaph
Post by: drfchound on November 08, 2023, 09:01:19 pm
SS, one or two posters make out that Tory voters voted for Brexit.
It appears that they never consider that some Labour supporters might have voted that way as well.

Dead right, mate. In fact, that "some" was practically the whole of the North-East.
Apparently, 37% of thick, racist, gammon-faced old fart Labour supporters voted to leave the EU.

Did all these 37% then vote Labour in the 2019?

Or all youincluding among your 'thick, racist, gammon-faced old fart Labour supporters' people who subsequently didn't vote Labour? But voted for a party they were happier with?

Wilts, just a thought here, do all the golf club bores, who get mentioned on here frequently, vote Tory or do some of them vote Labour.


I have never been in a golf club in my life hound. Can I leave it to you to find out.

You could do but I’m not a golf club member wilts.
Perhaps bst could tell us as it is him who constantly drones on about them.
Title: Re: Cenotaph
Post by: Bentley Bullet on November 08, 2023, 09:10:42 pm
I've been in a few. Never been as bored in my life.
I bet them you were sat with thought the same.
Title: Re: Cenotaph
Post by: scawsby steve on November 08, 2023, 09:36:48 pm
The conditions that enabled fascism were a direct result of the limp wristed leadership of the Weimar Government after WW1. The effects of rampant hyper-inflation resulting in middle classes being made poorer, losing their homes and businesses and working people being hit ever harder in the pocket. Add to that the complete national and very deliberate humiliation of Germany on the word stage after WW1 and the total loss of national identity/pride and you have a perfect breeding ground for a nationalist/fascist type party.

The parallels are (worryingly) there but they were sown a long time ago, way before GB News and Russia started stirring the pot. I'd suggest a good starting point to look for where this started would be 1997 onwards and the increasingly "progressive" policies of successive governments since then.

You take away the national identity of a country, tell people they're thick racists for caring about immigration and loss of national identity for long enough and you're going to see a reaction to that which extremist parties will be able to exploit. The national flag of this country is now something we're supposed to be ashamed of (compare that to Scotland or Wales who take pride in their flag) bashed over the head about our "white-privilege" and admonished for events taking place hundreds of years ago that led to us becoming a global superpower. Statues torn down and history erased. You're damn right, fascism is on the rise. Fascism is not however purely a preserve of the right.

We absolutely are in times that are comparable to the rise of fascism in Germany, but people may not like the inconvenient truth as to why we find ourselves here.

Good post, Tommy. I warned people on here about Labour Party members accusing Brexit voters in staunch Labour strongholds of being thick, racist, gammon faced old farts, and the effect it would have on the 2019 GE. Then there was lardarse Thornberry with her "white van man" insults.

To be fair to Starmer, despite looking unimpressive, he seems to be trying to nip this kind of thing in the bud with potential Labour voters, insisting that people need to move on from Brexit.

unto thine own self be true, Steve, the parrot will support you regardless

Good quote, Syd. Now, for the extra brownie points, which Shakespeare play is it from, and who was the character who quoted it?
Title: Re: Cenotaph
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on November 08, 2023, 10:03:06 pm
I've been in a few. Never been as bored in my life.
I bet them you were sat with thought the same.

I do hope so. If folk like that were interested in me, I'd consider myself a failure in life.
Title: Re: Cenotaph
Post by: Bentley Bullet on November 08, 2023, 10:12:08 pm
I've been in a few. Never been as bored in my life.
I bet them you were sat with thought the same.

I do hope so. If folk like that were interested in me, I'd consider myself a failure in life.
Yep, you stick to your 4th division off-topic football forum where you can consider yourself a success in life!
Title: Re: Cenotaph
Post by: SydneyRover on November 08, 2023, 11:19:07 pm
The conditions that enabled fascism were a direct result of the limp wristed leadership of the Weimar Government after WW1. The effects of rampant hyper-inflation resulting in middle classes being made poorer, losing their homes and businesses and working people being hit ever harder in the pocket. Add to that the complete national and very deliberate humiliation of Germany on the word stage after WW1 and the total loss of national identity/pride and you have a perfect breeding ground for a nationalist/fascist type party.

The parallels are (worryingly) there but they were sown a long time ago, way before GB News and Russia started stirring the pot. I'd suggest a good starting point to look for where this started would be 1997 onwards and the increasingly "progressive" policies of successive governments since then.

You take away the national identity of a country, tell people they're thick racists for caring about immigration and loss of national identity for long enough and you're going to see a reaction to that which extremist parties will be able to exploit. The national flag of this country is now something we're supposed to be ashamed of (compare that to Scotland or Wales who take pride in their flag) bashed over the head about our "white-privilege" and admonished for events taking place hundreds of years ago that led to us becoming a global superpower. Statues torn down and history erased. You're damn right, fascism is on the rise. Fascism is not however purely a preserve of the right.

We absolutely are in times that are comparable to the rise of fascism in Germany, but people may not like the inconvenient truth as to why we find ourselves here.

Good post, Tommy. I warned people on here about Labour Party members accusing Brexit voters in staunch Labour strongholds of being thick, racist, gammon faced old farts, and the effect it would have on the 2019 GE. Then there was lardarse Thornberry with her "white van man" insults.

To be fair to Starmer, despite looking unimpressive, he seems to be trying to nip this kind of thing in the bud with potential Labour voters, insisting that people need to move on from Brexit.

unto thine own self be true, Steve, the parrot will support you regardless

Good quote, Syd. Now, for the extra brownie points, which Shakespeare play is it from, and who was the character who quoted it?

As you like it, polly pipe
Title: Re: Cenotaph
Post by: normal rules on November 09, 2023, 12:14:01 am
I see the cenotaph in Rochdale has been desecrated by some pro palestinian low life (s)
This wont end well.

 

I see the cenotaph in Rochdale was vandalised on Tuesday night. After you started this thread and after a number of other far-right agitators talked about centotaphs being vandalised. Which up until then hadn't been.

How convenient.

I didn’t start this thread.
I’ll treat your other comment with the contempt it deserves.
Title: Re: Cenotaph
Post by: Not Now Kato on November 09, 2023, 01:19:20 pm
SS, one or two posters make out that Tory voters voted for Brexit.
It appears that they never consider that some Labour supporters might have voted that way as well.

Dead right, mate. In fact, that "some" was practically the whole of the North-East.
Apparently, 37% of thick, racist, gammon-faced old fart Labour supporters voted to leave the EU.

I know a number of leave voters who aptly fit your description BB.
Title: Re: Cenotaph
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on November 09, 2023, 07:57:57 pm
SS, one or two posters make out that Tory voters voted for Brexit.
It appears that they never consider that some Labour supporters might have voted that way as well.

Dead right, mate. In fact, that "some" was practically the whole of the North-East.
Apparently, 37% of thick, racist, gammon-faced old fart Labour supporters voted to leave the EU.

Here's a Tory MP saying that the people who voted Tory in 2019 are thick racists.

https://twitter.com/JackElsom/status/1722619393572798487
Title: Re: Cenotaph
Post by: Bentley Bullet on November 09, 2023, 08:25:49 pm
So you're saying that a Tory MP is actually right?
Title: Re: Cenotaph
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on November 09, 2023, 08:30:18 pm
Nope. I've never once said that Red Wall Tory voters in 2019 were thick and racist. I'm just pointing out that HE is effectively saying that.

I'm assuming you're livid at the sort of attitude he's displaying.
Title: Re: Cenotaph
Post by: Bentley Bullet on November 09, 2023, 08:34:13 pm
Why should I be livid?
Title: Re: Cenotaph
Post by: drfchound on November 09, 2023, 08:37:12 pm
SS, one or two posters make out that Tory voters voted for Brexit.
It appears that they never consider that some Labour supporters might have voted that way as well.

Dead right, mate. In fact, that "some" was practically the whole of the North-East.
Apparently, 37% of thick, racist, gammon-faced old fart Labour supporters voted to leave the EU.

Here's a Tory MP saying that the people who voted Tory in 2019 are thick racists.

https://twitter.com/JackElsom/status/1722619393572798487

Really, seriously?
Title: Re: Cenotaph
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on November 09, 2023, 08:37:29 pm
Why should I be livid?

Have fun.