Viking Supporters Co-operative

Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: mushRTID on January 13, 2024, 05:22:21 pm

Title: Moly
Post by: mushRTID on January 13, 2024, 05:22:21 pm
I’m sorry everyone but I think I have had enough.
So many promising positions he gets in come to absolutely nothing.
Frustrating and needs upgrading.
Title: Re: Moly
Post by: Cramby10 on January 13, 2024, 06:28:34 pm
Whilst I do think he stunk the place out today, which I’ve mentioned in another thread, but I do think the manager has to take a little of the flack on this. I just don’t get the obsession with playing players on the ‘wrong’ side. Or at least not switching them during the game to try something different. The one and only time he found himself on the left today, after a corner I think, he put in a wicked cross with his left foot round the outside that we could’ve scored from. He then reverted back to the right and never remotely replicated this for the rest of the game.
Title: Re: Moly
Post by: Pliskin on January 13, 2024, 06:51:57 pm
Said similar a few weeks ago too, watching Molyneux does my head in.

To his credit he keeps going all game and has ability, but he has to be one of the most wasteful players I've seen. Pops up in dangerous positions regularly but almost always fluffs it.

When we signed him it was seen as a bit of a coup, but for me his output has been disappointing.
Title: Re: Moly
Post by: Branton Red on January 13, 2024, 06:56:41 pm
A typical 4th division winger. We've had several similar down the years.

Talented but flatters to deceive.

I can't fault his effort though thoughout this season and at least he's available regularly unlike many of Rovers "footballers".
Title: Re: Moly
Post by: ncRover on January 13, 2024, 06:59:31 pm
Whilst I do think he stunk the place out today, which I’ve mentioned in another thread, but I do think the manager has to take a little of the flack on this. I just don’t get the obsession with playing players on the ‘wrong’ side. Or at least not switching them during the game to try something different. The one and only time he found himself on the left today, after a corner I think, he put in a wicked cross with his left foot round the outside that we could’ve scored from. He then reverted back to the right and never remotely replicated this for the rest of the game.

I’m pretty sure that wicked cross from the left was from Rowe
Title: Re: Moly
Post by: Cramby10 on January 13, 2024, 07:01:15 pm
Whilst I do think he stunk the place out today, which I’ve mentioned in another thread, but I do think the manager has to take a little of the flack on this. I just don’t get the obsession with playing players on the ‘wrong’ side. Or at least not switching them during the game to try something different. The one and only time he found himself on the left today, after a corner I think, he put in a wicked cross with his left foot round the outside that we could’ve scored from. He then reverted back to the right and never remotely replicated this for the rest of the game.

I’m pretty sure that wicked cross from the left was from Rowe
he did put one in also.
Title: Re: Moly
Post by: GazLaz on January 13, 2024, 07:01:40 pm
Said it when he signed, average 4th division player. “But clubs in higher divisions wanted him”. Ok then.

Was just being negative again then as well!

The thing is, the data points to all these things before we sign these average players. It’s obvious with some of them, yet the club don’t know where to look. Graeme Lee said he was a good lad so we will have him!
Title: Re: Moly
Post by: Filo on January 13, 2024, 07:03:45 pm
Whilst I do think he stunk the place out today, which I’ve mentioned in another thread, but I do think the manager has to take a little of the flack on this. I just don’t get the obsession with playing players on the ‘wrong’ side. Or at least not switching them during the game to try something different. The one and only time he found himself on the left today, after a corner I think, he put in a wicked cross with his left foot round the outside that we could’ve scored from. He then reverted back to the right and never remotely replicated this for the rest of the game.

I’m pretty sure that wicked cross from the left was from Rowe

It was
Title: Re: Moly
Post by: Silkscarf on January 13, 2024, 07:04:13 pm
The main thing that irritates me with him is being hopeless with his right foot and he accepts that and never improves. He wastes so many chances to cross or shoot because they happen to drop on that side.

George Miller was the same last season on his left.

Surely working on your weaker foot is one of the first things a coach does? I forgive lower league players many things but not that. Being OK on your weaker foot is the bare minimum for a pro footballer.
Title: Re: Moly
Post by: Cramby10 on January 13, 2024, 07:05:51 pm
The main thing that irritates me with him is being hopeless with his right foot and he accepts that and never improves. He wastes so many chances to cross or shoot because they happen to drop on that side.

George Miller was the same last season on his left.

Surely working on your weaker foot is one of the first things a coach does? I forgive lower league players many things but not that. Being OK on your weaker foot is the bare minimum for a pro footballer.
or just play him on the left?
Title: Re: Moly
Post by: DonnyOsmond on January 13, 2024, 07:07:50 pm
The main thing that irritates me with him is being hopeless with his right foot and he accepts that and never improves. He wastes so many chances to cross or shoot because they happen to drop on that side.

George Miller was the same last season on his left.

Surely working on your weaker foot is one of the first things a coach does? I forgive lower league players many things but not that. Being OK on your weaker foot is the bare minimum for a pro footballer.

Robben did alright being one footed.
Title: Re: Moly
Post by: Chris Black come back on January 13, 2024, 07:09:58 pm
Does he just become Matty Blair? We rule out any goals or real attacking threat but double down on work rate?
Title: Re: Moly
Post by: Bailey Vickerage on January 13, 2024, 07:31:28 pm
He wasn’t great today and tbf it’s probs the first time this season where I’ve seen his opponent get the better of him.

He still created a chance for himself tho in the first half then put an excellent ball into the box for ironside which the keeper pulled an excellent save for.
Title: Re: Moly
Post by: dickos1 on January 13, 2024, 07:56:11 pm
He wasn’t very good today,
But still created probably our best two chances,
For me he’s as good as any winger in this league, unplayable at times.
Granted his end product isn’t the best but week in week out he creates chances
Title: Re: Moly
Post by: RoversInSpain on January 13, 2024, 08:18:56 pm
Newport put 2 and 3 players on him today. He was left to try and find a way through which he generally couldn’t, you could see his frustration.
Might try to get a couple of our lads in a triangle.
Opposition are a bit scared of him, we don’t make the most of it.
Title: Re: Moly
Post by: roversdude on January 13, 2024, 08:25:56 pm
Moly knew he wasn’t great today hence his booking based on frustration
Title: Re: Moly
Post by: mushRTID on January 13, 2024, 08:33:07 pm
Moly knew he wasn’t great today hence his booking based on frustration

I could understand this comment if it was the 70th minute or so. But his booking was early. It was just stupid, not sure it was frustration.
Title: Re: Moly
Post by: DonnyOsmond on January 13, 2024, 08:40:44 pm
Newport put 2 and 3 players on him today. He was left to try and find a way through which he generally couldn’t, you could see his frustration.
Might try to get a couple of our lads in a triangle.
Opposition are a bit scared of him, we don’t make the most of it.

Thought it summed up the day when Biggins made the most telegraphed run and pass to Molyneux you'll ever see, he then had 2 men on him and then no one offered him anything.
Title: Re: Moly
Post by: danumdon on January 13, 2024, 08:55:56 pm
To me it just comes across as a lack of nous from him and the other players, when you have a player who the opposition are double marking then it should allow space and time for others to flourish, did it happen?

When we keep playing at a slow and predictable pace then any opposition will have the time to marshal their defences to the best advantage, we are far to predictable, we need to play much smarter.

When GM says the players are frightened to be brave and take responsibility then who does does the buck stop with?

We need to be far smarter and braver, i'd rather we tried and failed to make a forward break or attack work rather than watch us recycle the ball back to the keeper from attacking positions, the easy play is always the worse option for us because we do it so slowly it takes no one by surprise One paced and suffering for it..
Title: Re: Moly
Post by: StocksArmy on January 13, 2024, 09:07:48 pm
There is a reason the lad operates at League 2. When he is good he is brilliant and when he is sh!t he may as well be taken off within the first 45mins. If he isn't allowed the space to run at people he doesn't seem to have the intelligence to move inside and play himself into a game. It's like he just accepts that he is isolated and if he doesn't improve his final ball he will be stuck at this level all of his career.
Title: Re: Moly
Post by: ncRover on January 13, 2024, 10:52:40 pm
I’ve seen 18 months of Molyneux now.

I have come to the conclusion that he is a dumb footballer.

This is why his game is less than the overall sum of his attributes (good work rate, left foot and touch, decent pace).

There was a passage of play where he was tripled up on, and he still just ran down a blind alley, rather than think - “that means there’s multiple unmarked team mates to pick out”.

Close, whilst being a good player is risk-averse and doesn’t seem to have ever looked happy in a Rovers shirt.

There’s a few others who just don’t seem sure in their ability or either mentally strong enough to maximise it. Determination without belief is aimless. There’s talking about doing it and then there’s actually DOING IT.

We seem to have a general inferiority complex. Both games v Notts County we have stepped off and treated them like 2008 Barcelona. Grimsby scored FIVE goals against them today, after Tranmere scored four the week before.

Bradford are distinctly average this year but Rovers will probably see the 20k Valley Parade crowd and shit their pants.
Title: Re: Moly
Post by: selby on January 13, 2024, 11:33:05 pm
 Ever thought the modern way of playing right and left footed players on the opposite wing means they collect the ball on the run with their weak foot going forward and therefore tend to collect the ball facing their own goal instead of going forward.
Title: Re: Moly
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 14, 2024, 01:52:31 pm
Of all the crap talked on here, this thread takes the biscuit.

Folk in other threads are saying Ironside should have scored three yesterday.

Who do you think was instrumental in setting up all three chances?

There are plenty of players in this squad who have underwhelmed. Molyneux is way from the top of that list.
Title: Re: Moly
Post by: dickos1 on January 14, 2024, 01:56:56 pm
Of all the crap talked on here, this thread takes the biscuit.

Folk in other threads are saying Ironside should have scored three yesterday.

Who do you think was instrumental in setting up all three chances?

There are plenty of players in this squad who have underwhelmed. Molyneux is way from the top of that list.

Wow, we agree on something
Title: Re: Moly
Post by: roversdude on January 14, 2024, 01:59:51 pm
Moly knew he wasn’t great today hence his booking based on frustration

I could understand this comment if it was the 70th minute or so. But his booking was early. It was just stupid, not sure it was frustration.

He was already frustrated then though as he hadn’t beaten his man once
Title: Re: Moly
Post by: ncRover on January 14, 2024, 02:01:03 pm
Of all the crap talked on here, this thread takes the biscuit.

Folk in other threads are saying Ironside should have scored three yesterday.

Who do you think was instrumental in setting up all three chances?

There are plenty of players in this squad who have underwhelmed. Molyneux is way from the top of that list.

I thought they weren’t good chances Billy?

This is the trap we fall in to with offering average players new contracts.

“Oh Molyneux sets up some chances we should keep him”

That doesn’t mean there aren’t other players who can’t set up more chances and score more goals about!

He has commonly been deployed as the ATTACKER on the right of a front 3 for 1 and a half seasons now. He has 5 goals and 8 assists in 67 league appearances. That isn’t good enough.

We are 21st in the league for big chances created. Which players would you put that down to?
Title: Re: Moly
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on January 14, 2024, 02:12:23 pm
Of all the crap talked on here, this thread takes the biscuit.

Folk in other threads are saying Ironside should have scored three yesterday.

Who do you think was instrumental in setting up all three chances?

There are plenty of players in this squad who have underwhelmed. Molyneux is way from the top of that list.

I thought they weren’t good chances Billy?

This is the trap we fall in to with offering average players new contracts.

“Oh Molyneux sets up some chances we should keep him”

That doesn’t mean there aren’t other players who can’t set up more chances and score more goals about!

He has commonly been deployed as the ATTACKER on the right of a front 3 for 1 and a half seasons now. He has 5 goals and 8 assists in 67 league appearances. That isn’t good enough.

We are 21st in the league for big chances created. Which players would you put that down to?

NC.

They were the best chances we created. It's strange that folk pile into the player who created those.

First one was an excellent run in round the back and a well judged touch back across the face of goal. It wasn't a tap in because the defender got in and nicked it away.

The second one was a very well delivered free kick straight onto McGrath's head. After that, you're in the lap of the Gods. The final chance wasn't a tap in because the ball ended up behind Ironside as he swung for it (and watching the video again, I suspect Waters would have been given offside if the ball had gone in). Molyneux can hardly be blamed for what happened after the ball left his foot.

The third one was a lovely ball into Ironside. It wasn't a tap in because Ironside had plenty still to do.
Title: Re: Moly
Post by: ncRover on January 14, 2024, 02:19:13 pm
Which of the current players in the squad do you think we can build around next season to compete?

I’m not saying Molyneux is a bad player, I just don’t think he’s above average for this division. And his numbers back that up, we have a large enough sample size now.
Title: Re: Moly
Post by: Barmby Rover on January 14, 2024, 02:25:45 pm
It is difficult to see who we build a team round, the only consistent battler is J Ironside, but I could see him being off in the summer to a side with more prospects.
Title: Re: Moly
Post by: danumdon on January 14, 2024, 03:44:59 pm
Of all the crap talked on here, this thread takes the biscuit.

Folk in other threads are saying Ironside should have scored three yesterday.

Who do you think was instrumental in setting up all three chances?

There are plenty of players in this squad who have underwhelmed. Molyneux is way from the top of that list.

I thought they weren’t good chances Billy?

This is the trap we fall in to with offering average players new contracts.

“Oh Molyneux sets up some chances we should keep him”

That doesn’t mean there aren’t other players who can’t set up more chances and score more goals about!

He has commonly been deployed as the ATTACKER on the right of a front 3 for 1 and a half seasons now. He has 5 goals and 8 assists in 67 league appearances. That isn’t good enough.

We are 21st in the league for big chances created. Which players would you put that down to?

NC.

They were the best chances we created. It's strange that folk pile into the player who created those.

First one was an excellent run in round the back and a well judged touch back across the face of goal. It wasn't a tap in because the defender got in and nicked it away.

The second one was a very well delivered free kick straight onto McGrath's head. After that, you're in the lap of the Gods. The final chance wasn't a tap in because the ball ended up behind Ironside as he swung for it (and watching the video again, I suspect Waters would have been given offside if the ball had gone in). Molyneux can hardly be blamed for what happened after the ball left his foot.

The third one was a lovely ball into Ironside. It wasn't a tap in because Ironside had plenty still to do.

Seems to me that people on here are not getting on at Moly and talking crap, but more so talking in relative terms, He's the one player we have in the side currently who can make something out of nothing, so when he fails to produce it frustrates a great many because of his undoubted potential.

I would also say he gets held up for higher scrutiny because of this potential, most are just frustrated about a team that's not performing to the greater sum of its parts.
Title: Re: Moly
Post by: dickos1 on January 14, 2024, 05:09:46 pm
Molyneux was very poor yesterday and he knew he was. But he still created almost everything that was good
Title: Re: Moly
Post by: steve@dcfd on January 14, 2024, 06:32:53 pm
Moly hasn’t got the pace to beat players going right to bye line. He always wants to cut inside but when double marked he loses the ball.  He’s not got the strength against robust player. Since he arrived the most overrated player we have. He reminds me of a poor man’s Antony although the outcome from both players is poor which ever level they play at. Both do not create enough assists and goals per game is very poor. Next Saturday if we play 433 I’d start Waters on the right and Hurst on the left. Hope Senior is available for Left back and Rowe can play midfield
Title: Re: Moly
Post by: dickos1 on January 14, 2024, 06:48:25 pm
He gets to the byline frequently
And did so a few times yesterday
Title: Re: Moly
Post by: ncRover on January 14, 2024, 08:17:25 pm
4 out of 5 of Molyneux’s assists this season have come from set piece / short corner routines.

In open play he isn’t dynamic, creative or decisive enough to be first choice for us in the long term. That’s just my opinion.
Title: Re: Moly
Post by: mushRTID on January 14, 2024, 08:21:42 pm
He gets to the byline frequently
And did so a few times yesterday

Most of the time he gets to the byline, he just ends up there by running down a blind alley.

He’s not beating his man, getting to the byline and whipping dangerous balls in.
Title: Re: Moly
Post by: Cramby10 on January 14, 2024, 08:34:48 pm
The problem is that when he gets to the byline it’s on his wrong foot and the crosses with his right foot are rotten.
Get him on the left. Or at least rotate during the game.
Title: Re: Moly
Post by: Canadian Rover on January 14, 2024, 11:00:47 pm
Does he just become Matty Blair? We rule out any goals or real attacking threat but double down on work rate?

Yep and he's the kind of player we should all be thankful to have in the squad. Not many players are a lower league Ivan Toney or even a Copps. So when we get one like Luke we should thank our lucky stars!!! If we have a squad full of players with the same talent and effort we'd be in the playoffs at least.
Title: Re: Moly
Post by: ncRover on January 15, 2024, 11:10:52 am
Blair ended up a full back.

If you want someone to play on the left and swing crosses in with their left foot then it’s 4-4-2 or 3-5-2. Which isn’t McCann’s preferred system. And that isn’t LM’s modus operandi anyway.

Title: Re: Moly
Post by: Move DRFC on January 15, 2024, 11:26:45 am
Said it when he signed, average 4th division player. “But clubs in higher divisions wanted him”. Ok then.

Was just being negative again then as well!

The thing is, the data points to all these things before we sign these average players. It’s obvious with some of them, yet the club don’t know where to look. Graeme Lee said he was a good lad so we will have him!

It's quite frustrating that the club don't listen to you (correct me if I'm wrong and they do) because tbf you re mostly bang on with everything you say.
Title: Re: Moly
Post by: Spilsby Red on January 15, 2024, 01:54:00 pm
Moly gives his all from what I have seen of him. A player definitely to keep. He isn’t perfect as most of ours aren’t. If he was near as damn as perfect he wouldn’t be here and in this league.
He gets in the right places and shows by the chances he gets.
With the right coaching he will continue to improve and I think GM will do that
Title: Re: Moly
Post by: Canadian Rover on May 06, 2024, 10:36:05 pm
Does he just become Matty Blair? We rule out any goals or real attacking threat but double down on work rate?

Yep and he's the kind of player we should all be thankful to have in the squad. Not many players are a lower league Ivan Toney or even a Copps. So when we get one like Luke we should thank our lucky stars!!! If we have a squad full of players with the same talent and effort we'd be in the playoffs at least.
Title: Re: Moly
Post by: mushRTID on May 06, 2024, 10:38:18 pm
Hands up from me with this one.
At the time I was very frustrated with him and I genuinely couldn’t be happier to be proved wrong. He’s been sensational.

I worry now he’s going to get snapped up!

Football eh
Title: Re: Moly
Post by: RoversInSpain on May 06, 2024, 10:42:54 pm
Newport put 2 and 3 players on him today. He was left to try and find a way through which he generally couldn’t, you could see his frustration.
Might try to get a couple of our lads in a triangle.
Opposition are a bit scared of him, we don’t make the most of it.

And now we do…
Title: Re: Moly
Post by: normal rules on May 06, 2024, 10:52:39 pm
The initial post hasn’t aged well has it?
My lad had £20 on a rovers win and moly to score any time at 9-1.
Title: Re: Moly
Post by: mushRTID on May 06, 2024, 11:03:22 pm
The initial post hasn’t aged well has it?
My lad had £20 on a rovers win and moly to score any time at 9-1.

No it hasn’t hence my reply starting “hands up from me” lol
Title: Re: Moly
Post by: ncRover on May 06, 2024, 11:13:30 pm
Hands up from me with this one.
At the time I was very frustrated with him and I genuinely couldn’t be happier to be proved wrong. He’s been sensational.

I worry now he’s going to get snapped up!

Football eh

Same here Mush. Nothing wrong with having an opinion that gets proved wrong as long as you show humility and admit it.

It’s unpredictability is why it’s the beautiful game.
Title: Re: Moly
Post by: Canadian Rover on May 06, 2024, 11:26:12 pm
Yep. Agreed although I reposted this with intent of showing my support of what I thought was a good player, not that to shit on the rest of our fans.

It's a bit of harmless fun, let's keep the fun times going!!
Title: Re: Moly
Post by: normal rules on May 07, 2024, 09:28:37 am
I’ll put my hand up and admit I thought the whole team were dead and buried in January/ February. Despair. Doom and gloom. Bereft.
People were talking about playoffs and I suggested that would be dreamland and Roy of the rovers stuff.
And yet here we are.
Always happy to be proved wrong when rovers are on the up.
Title: Re: Moly
Post by: ForsolongaRover on May 07, 2024, 09:46:53 am
Bad judgement rather than lack of ability was his problem.

I think we can see an overall improvement throughout the team in this department. Shooting is not always the best option, but when you do, cut back on the power and try and hit the target. Biggins’ goals are another example of accuracy before power.
Title: Re: Moly
Post by: Mike_F on May 07, 2024, 10:08:10 am
I think the problem was that he was our only attacking threat so teams could double up to shut him down/push him onto his weaker foot and that was the Rovers gameplan undone.

Since we've brought in Haks (who looks to be carrying a bit of a knock at the moment) it's given the opposition more to think about; they can't focus solely on Luke as that leaves Haks free. They give each other the freedom to find space and use it to our advantage.
Title: Re: Moly
Post by: BillyStubbsTears on May 07, 2024, 10:17:22 am
I’ll put my hand up and admit I thought the whole team were dead and buried in January/ February. Despair. Doom and gloom. Bereft.
People were talking about playoffs and I suggested that would be dreamland and Roy of the rovers stuff.
And yet here we are.
Always happy to be proved wrong when rovers are on the up.

The change is like nothing you ever see in football.

The first 70 minutes of the Sutton match, just 3 months ago, was grim.

Bullied and harried by a physical press.

Absolutely punchless up front.

Vulnerable at the back.

We really looked what we were - a club on the verge of dropping out of the league.

Yesterday was a performance 2 divisions higher. We played a side who have been in the top 7 all season, and we made them look like they were a division below us. We are now so much faster physically and mentally that oppositions don't even get the chance to press - the ball has gone through them.


The defence is rock solid - apart from after TLT's red card, we've conceded 4 goals in the past 9 games.

We're winning 80% of 50/50s.

And we constantly look like carving out good chances.

If I hadn't seen the transformation with my own eyes, I wouldn't have believed it possible.
Title: Re: Moly
Post by: RobTheRover on May 07, 2024, 10:38:52 am
I think the problem was that he was our only attacking threat so teams could double up to shut him down/push him onto his weaker foot and that was the Rovers gameplan undone.

Since we've brought in Haks (who looks to be carrying a bit of a knock at the moment) it's given the opposition more to think about; they can't focus solely on Luke as that leaves Haks free. They give each other the freedom to find space and use it to our advantage.

That's spot on, Mike. I think the weight we, the club and probably himself too placed on his shoulders in that team was immense.  He had a lot to carry. Others coming in and the game plan being tweaked has taken some of that off and allowed him to shine.

Might not get that anywhere else if he decides to leave.
Title: Re: Moly
Post by: pib on May 07, 2024, 11:21:56 am
His movement has improved a lot while we've been on this run. Not sure if it's because of Haks coming in, the formation change, something the coaching staff have worked on, or a combination of all three, but he's getting in much better positions now.

It's something I posted a few weeks ago after the Barrow game. LM and Haks are giving us extra attacking threat with those outside to in runs. It's giving us an option over the top, gives Ironside more support when he holds the ball up/flicks it on, and most importantly LM and HA are appearing in positions where they are more likely to score.

That goal from LM yesterday was a centre forward's goal really. Getting across the defender and arriving to meet a cross at the near post. Would he have scored that sort of goal last season or earlier on this season? Don't think he even found himself in that position last season let alone scoring from there.
Title: Re: Moly
Post by: Mustapha-Dump on May 07, 2024, 12:02:02 pm
As I said to my mate in the away end yesterday, whether you have always liked him, never liked him, rated him not rated him, etc etc. Those things are up for debate, what’s not up for debate is how much of a better player he has looked under McCann in a competitive, fit team, he’s be an idiot to leave because the 18 months prior to this year were probably leading him back to hartlepool. Still not his biggest fan but love the form he’s hit in the last 3 months, a sceptic might link it to his contract status but I actually don’t think it’s that, I think he has just improved monumentally in a team that is firing well. Let’s hope he keeps it up for 2 more games at least.
Title: Re: Moly
Post by: Chris Black come back on May 07, 2024, 02:59:42 pm
This is all true but his next decision is probably his last decision that can earn him decent money. If some low end Championship club came in and wanted you to be a squad player for double what we are offering, at his age and given what he has earned to date in his career, he’s going to take that. Likewise the rumoured move to the A-League. That lifestyle choice cannot be dismissed.