Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: roversdude on January 28, 2024, 10:33:02 am
-
Picking up on points raised in other threads.
Is a big part of our defensive problem down to our keeper/s.
By this I don’t mean the saving qualities but the organisational skills and constantly talking to defenders
-
Does he ever assert his authority? I don’t remember him ever barging his way through the melee in the box to claim the ball. But the image of him standing just behind those right in front of him with him waving helplessly as the ball passes close by him haunts me!
-
We have 2 number two's in Jones and Lawlor and this was always going to be the case, who replaced another number two in Mitchell.
I like Jones and would have him as our #2, I think Lawlor is a decent number 2 option too.
But we have and always have needed a good solid number one goalkeeper. None of this was through hindsight either. The moment Lawlor was signed I wrote that we'd be reliant on Jones and I also (although very heavily criticised on here at the time) said Mitchell was an horrendous signing and should have been no way near our first eleven, he's now the 3rd choice at Harrogate.
Think now which league two teams would have either Jones or Lawlor (when fit) as their #1 starting goalkeeper? I think you have to look down into the national league (maybe) to say for certain they are bonafide #1 starters.
-
We could do with an astute veteran at the back. Whether we could attract one is another question. Haven't had that type of player since Neil Sullivan was here really.
-
The Lawlor signing was a bad one wasn’t it. I didn’t see it at the time and thought it wasn’t too bad, but fair play to those who did. Can’t keep himself fit and looks average at best.
-
Why does the keeper have to shout and organise everything?
Can't imagine Rob Jones would have took any notice of what he was told.
-
Well they are in a unique position where everything is in front of them and if they see something that could be tweaked.
Remind me what number Rob Jones is in our current squad
-
I said after the Morecambe thrashing that the GK, defence and midfield need to be addressed first in this window. We have brought in a young lad in Mcgrath (who i do rate) and Craig who in my opinion from the couple of games he has played has looked exactly the signing unanimously we all said we did not want or need. The question was put to McCann at the meet the owners night that the signings are underwhelming and that we need experience who can organise. He then harps on about Tommy Rowe, Tom Anderson, Jon Taylor, Ian Lawlor, Richard Wood, Harrison Biggins, Ben Close, Joe Ironside all being experienced. Problem with that though Grant is none of them apart from Ironside are leaders AND good footballers who have the legs to get around the pitch. To get this calibre of player and especially at this level, you have to spend more money than we are spending. TB doesn't want any help with investment so it looks like we are stuck watching trash until the penny drops somewhere. One thing is for sure if it hurt the club and its staff as much as it did us then something would be done about it.
-
Well they are in a unique position where everything is in front of them and if they see something that could be tweaked.
Remind me what number Rob Jones is in our current squad
Fair point. Maybe what I should have said was .....
Any decent commanding centre half would take no notice.
Remind me what number that player is in our current squad?
-
Did not Woods play in Jones’s time?
He was not the greatest goalkeeper, but he was athletic. A “decent” defensive leader would work in conjunction with the goalkeeper, each knowing when it’s right for the GK to claim the ball and when it can be best dealt with the defence.
-
Getting a strong keeper will make a huge difference.
Lawlor was an odd and poor signing - McCann clearly didn’t want to use the budget for this position.
-
Well they are in a unique position where everything is in front of them and if they see something that could be tweaked.
Remind me what number Rob Jones is in our current squad
Fair point. Maybe what I should have said was .....
Any decent commanding centre half would take no notice.
Remind me what number that player is in our current squad?
Touché lol you are correct that is missing
-
Why does the keeper have to shout and organise everything?
Can't imagine Rob Jones would have took any notice of what he was told.
Organising the defence in front of them is one of a keeper's most important jobs.
-
Why does the keeper have to shout and organise everything?
Can't imagine Rob Jones would have took any notice of what he was told.
Go watch Liverpool live and you'll hear Alison bellowing instructions to VVD and the rest of the back four. Do you think Bruce and Pallister didn't listen to Schmeicel? Sullivan controlled the defence was clear and loud. The goal keeper is an important position for sure.
-
It is an important position. Also he’s a young lad who has come on well so far. Still learning. He came for the first goal, in my eyes he shouldn’t have done. He will make mistakes.
A big factor in goalkeeping, helps to have a settled formation and a settled defence. Something we haven’t had. As a young keeper he needs support on the pitch as do all our young players. The trouble is there is not one experienced player doing that.
It works both ways. We as fans love to give dogs abuse to players.
I played as a goalkeeper to a very good level so I do have some knowledge.
Jones has the potential to be very good
-
If we don’t replace Jones then I can tell you we are in serious danger of going down.
The third goal Stockport scored was Jones’s ball all day long.
Cross into the middle of the 6 yd box and he was rooted to his line.
Any keeper worth his salt would have gobbled up that cross.
Sorry but all the decent shot stopping doesn’t make Louie a good keeper.
He is atrocious on crosses and only comes anywhere near a cross when there are no bodies in front of him.
As for organising a defence, give me strength, he is the quietest keeper I have ever seen. He should be the loudest voice on the pitch.
Yes we are also desperate for some leadership on the pitch. Without Woods we have none whatsoever.
If Tommy Rowe is a captain then I haven’t seen it.
If he plays at left back again then I give up. If Maxwell is fit then he has to play.
Where was Tommy yesterday. Totally went missing in the same way he did at Barrow last season.
3 goals conceded due to his walk about.
I am now really getting concerned. If we lose at Sutton on Saturday we are in serious trouble.
I don’t see enough leadership or bottle on the pitch to get us out of trouble.
-
We can agree to disagree.
Also, if we do go down it will not be because of Jones, that is a silly comment
Rowe tho is a liability where ever he plays
-
complaining about Louis Jones is like complaining about a dripping tap in a house where the roof's been blown off.
-
complaining about Louis Jones is like complaining about a dripping tap in a house where the roof's been blown off.
Great analogy.
-
complaining about Louis Jones is like complaining about a dripping tap in a house where the roof's been blown off.
Is there really true equivalence here?
Although conceding goals is not the only problem, the GK is there to keep the ball out of the net. Every goal may not his fault, but occupying his position he has a far greater role in stopping them (using his hands as well as his feet) than most of the other 10.
If you are going to make water analogies you’d surely compare a good Keeper with a roof that did not blow off. The rest of them might well be broken windows or worse!
-
1. We have a shite defence
2. We could have a better goalkeeper
Both of these are true for me, it doesn’t have to be one or the other. The defence needs looking at more urgently, though.
-
Lawlor out for rest of season with hip injury. McCann saying not going to get loan in to replace him. Jones and Bottomley rest of season.
With our usual treatment and recovery path, this means sadly Lawlor is likely finished with the game now. Sad for him.
-
For me we have to stick with Jones. He needs to improve on crosses but he isn't going to do that watching from the stands.
We can't want our young players to develop without them making mistakes. But we can put better centre halves around him.
-
McCann appears to confirm, in the DFP article, that Jones will be No1 for the rest of the season and we wont see a keeper come in during the tail end of the window.
-
McCann appears to confirm, in the DFP article, that Jones will be No1 for the rest of the season and we wont see a keeper come in during the tail end of the window.
Without bringing in a further keeper the defence will continue to look suspect and weak !
-
If this week goes badly, and it quite possibly could...are we really saying we would risk our league status so we dont hamper the progress of one player who isnt good enough?
I hope this public backing is to keep LJ confidence high and that behind the scenes relegation is being given serious respect as at the moment, it doesnt feel like it is.
-
I'm good with developing players and giving them multiple chances to prove themselves but surely this should be the same for all of players like Flint, Goodman and Faulkner?
We have what we have (again) we do have enough quality to pick up more wins but Grant really needs Maxwell and Wood to get in that defensive line and we need also to add some steel in that midfield.
-
I'm good with developing players and giving them multiple chances to prove themselves but surely this should be the same for all of players like Flint, Goodman and Faulkner?
We have what we have (again) we do have enough quality to pick up more wins but Grant really needs Maxwell and Wood to get in that defensive line and to add some steel in that midfield.
Agreed. Perhaps Jones might get a bit better, but we need him much better now. Can we really afford to compromise our survival (which could hinge on the persistent vulnerability to crosses) for the sake of his development?
I have read that the goalkeeping coach, Letheren, is apparently also the set-piece co-ordinator yet his ability does not seem to come under scrutiny when the defensive combination so often fails with crosses and corners. It follows that his judgement of Jones (which could be equally dubious) is presumably the basis of McCann's view.
Without knowing all the "ins and outs", if I were in McCann's position I would be focusing very keenly on his ability to do both the coaching and the set piece organisation.
-
McCann's comments translate to "there's nobody better available that fits our budget".
Nobody in their right mind would opt to see out the season in our current position with Jones and Bottomley as our two senior 'keepers.
-
Wes fodringham from Sheffield United is available sorry for the spelling.
-
Wes fodringham from Sheffield United is available sorry for the spelling.
The 20k a week may be a stumbling block there.
-
One of the best signings we ever made was Sulli, he made such a difference, just as Seny Dieng did to GM former good team here. They are invaluable and are the captain for the defence, we have nothing of the sort now.
-
Wes fodringham from Sheffield United is available sorry for the spelling.
The 20k a week may be a stumbling block there.
Alongside the fact that he’s been an ever present for a Premier League team so far this season.
-
Wes fodringham from Sheffield United is available sorry for the spelling.
The 20k a week may be a stumbling block there.
Alongside the fact that he’s been an ever present for a Premier League team so far this season.
Sign him up!
-
If we don’t replace Jones then I can tell you we are in serious danger of going down.
The third goal Stockport scored was Jones’s ball all day long.
Cross into the middle of the 6 yd box and he was rooted to his line.
Any keeper worth his salt would have gobbled up that cross.
Sorry but all the decent shot stopping doesn’t make Louie a good keeper.
He is atrocious on crosses and only comes anywhere near a cross when there are no bodies in front of him.
As for organising a defence, give me strength, he is the quietest keeper I have ever seen. He should be the loudest voice on the pitch.
Yes we are also desperate for some leadership on the pitch. Without Woods we have none whatsoever.
If Tommy Rowe is a captain then I haven’t seen it.
If he plays at left back again then I give up. If Maxwell is fit then he has to play.
Where was Tommy yesterday. Totally went missing in the same way he did at Barrow last season.
3 goals conceded due to his walk about.
I am now really getting concerned. If we lose at Sutton on Saturday we are in serious trouble.
I don’t see enough leadership or bottle on the pitch to get us out of trouble.
Agree with every bit of your post, a decent keeper would give confidence to the rest of the team. You can see there’s no confidence no desire no passion no camaraderie everything we take to the field, only time I’ve seen a hint of all this, has been in the EFL cup, maybe they are on a good win bonus
-
Jed Steer has just left Peterborough and is looking for a club??
-
Jed Steer left Peterborough as he wants assurances he will play.
Should someone we should try and get even if on a short term deal.
-
As someone said somewhere on here, can't the channel of the Shadow Board be used to raise concerns like this?
I don't think I've ever seen any feedback from them. I wonder what they have discussed? Perhaps I have missed something obvious.
-
One of the best signings we ever made was Sulli, he made such a difference, just as Seny Dieng did to GM former good team here. They are invaluable and are the captain for the defence, we have nothing of the sort now.
Darren Moore signed Seny Dieng. Keepers like him and Sam Johnstone would never come to Rovers now.
Those days are well and truly over.
-
As someone said somewhere on here, can't the channel of the Shadow Board be used to raise concerns like this?
I don't think I've ever seen any feedback from them. I wonder what they have discussed? Perhaps I have missed something obvious.
Concerns like this? Jesus wept, if they expressed concerns about positions that needed strengthening, they'd be suggesting the whole bloody team needs replacing.
Do you seriously believe that we're in the bottom 3 of the EFL because of one player?
-
Okonkwo is meant to be one of the best goalies in the league and he looks shocking in this cup game I’m watching
-
As someone said somewhere on here, can't the channel of the Shadow Board be used to raise concerns like this?
I don't think I've ever seen any feedback from them. I wonder what they have discussed? Perhaps I have missed something obvious.
Concerns like this? Jesus wept, if they expressed concerns about positions that needed strengthening, they'd be suggesting the whole bloody team needs replacing.
Do you seriously believe that we're in the bottom 3 of the EFL because of one player?
So, can you tell me what it is they have discussed? The question is do they make known fans’ concerns (of which this is one of many). Is that such an outrageous wish?
-
As someone said somewhere on here, can't the channel of the Shadow Board be used to raise concerns like this?
I don't think I've ever seen any feedback from them. I wonder what they have discussed? Perhaps I have missed something obvious.
Concerns like this? Jesus wept, if they expressed concerns about positions that needed strengthening, they'd be suggesting the whole bloody team needs replacing.
Do you seriously believe that we're in the bottom 3 of the EFL because of one player?
So, can you tell me what it is they have discussed? The question is do they make known fans’ concerns (of which this is one of many). Is that such an outrageous wish?
The meeting minutes are all here: https://www.doncasterroversfc.co.uk/club/shadow-board/meeting-minutes/
As far as I can see, the issues discussed don't tend to be to do with on the pitch or first team matters.
-
The shadow board is not there to discuss or question McCann over team matters, certainly not individual players or positions, although I can't see anything wrong with questioning recruitment strategies and overall objectives to keep reviewing where we are. Clearly team related issues need to stay confidential for good reason.
-
I think some of this came out in the Meet the Owners event but it would be fascinating to have an explanation from the (actual) board as to why they think we are now in something of a death spiral? This is way beyond failures of 1,2 or even 3 managers, this is just a total collapse in the credibility of the governance structure and the strategy (if there was one) of the club. Something has gone truly catastrophically wrong at the strategic level - what do they think this is?
-
Baldwin seemed to think funding was the key issue, which is not only an about-turn from previous public statements made, but is also worrying considering the funding has increased this season and we've only continued to go backwards.
-
Baldwin seemed to think funding was the key issue, which is not only an about-turn from previous public statements made, but is also worrying considering the funding has increased this season and we've only continued to go backwards.
He didn't use the word funding, he used the word resources. It amounts to more or less the same thing but it was a nuanced response, one that I can understand.
-
Baldwin seemed to think funding was the key issue, which is not only an about-turn from previous public statements made, but is also worrying considering the funding has increased this season and we've only continued to go backwards.
He didn't use the word funding, he used the word resources. It amounts to more or less the same thing but it was a nuanced response, one that I can understand.
This is verbatim what Baldwin said.....
"My honest answer would be the playing budget and the finances available there. There was a motivation for a sustainable club. What Terry has brought about... is a balance between sustainability and having a team on the pitch... So, probably brutally honest, it was resources"
So he didn't say funding but he did say "finances". Genuinely though, if you are able to shed more light on the nuance that would be interesting to hear. (I'm not being combative here, I'd be genuinely interested in the difference between what he said and how I am interpreting it.)
-
The shadow board is not there to discuss or question McCann over team matters, certainly not individual players or positions, although I can't see anything wrong with questioning recruitment strategies and overall objectives to keep reviewing where we are. Clearly team related issues need to stay confidential for good reason.
I think some of this came out in the Meet the Owners event but it would be fascinating to have an explanation from the (actual) board as to why they think we are now in something of a death spiral? This is way beyond failures of 1,2 or even 3 managers, this is just a total collapse in the credibility of the governance structure and the strategy (if there was one) of the club. Something has gone truly catastrophically wrong at the strategic level - what do they think this is?
The relevant recommendation reads
"As a uniquely important stakeholder, supporters should be properly consulted by their clubs in taking key decisions by means of a Shadow Board.
26. A Shadow Board should be a licensing condition of IREF. The club should engage and consult this Shadow Board on all material ‘non football/off pitch’ business and financial matters."
My own, possibly naive, interpretation of this would be that it would be reasonable for the fan-members to relate on-pitch performance to off-pitch investment and supporters disquiet about performances and therefore player-investment which clearly are "business and financial matters".
Observations on tactics etc., individual players and and team selection would be off limits.
Is this unreasonable?