Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: NickDRFC on November 16, 2024, 06:37:35 pm
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I’ve read this a few times now, that we’re only operating in 3rd gear and when it comes together we’ll blow teams away.
Two questions for those who’ve said/think like this:
1. Why do you think we will suddenly go up a couple of levels? Is it based on our run last season? McCann being manager? The belief that our squad/starting eleven is that much better than everyone else?
2. Why haven’t we reached those levels yet when we’re halfway through November? Bad luck? Poor tactics/team selection? Team still getting to know each other?
I’ve been disappointed with us a fair bit this season, more with how we’ve played in games when I’ve seen us rather than our position, which I think is absolutely fine. But I’m not sure I share that optimism for any reason beyond hope so I’d be interested to hear why there’s that confidence there and what’s prevented us stepping up so far.
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I’ve read this a few times now, that we’re only operating in 3rd gear and when it comes together we’ll blow teams away.
Two questions for those who’ve said/think like this:
1. Why do you think we will suddenly go up a couple of levels? Is it based on our run last season? McCann being manager? The belief that our squad/starting eleven is that much better than everyone else?
2. Why haven’t we reached those levels yet when we’re halfway through November? Bad luck? Poor tactics/team selection? Team still getting to know each other?
I’ve been disappointed with us a fair bit this season, more with how we’ve played in games when I’ve seen us rather than our position, which I think is absolutely fine. But I’m not sure I share that optimism for any reason beyond hope so I’d be interested to hear why there’s that confidence there and what’s prevented us stepping up so far.
It’s simply about the end product. We create more than enough to win the vast majority of games.
Perfect example of that today. Gibson should have had a hat trick and Billy should have had 2 goals.
Oh and I thought Gibson was much more of a threat than Molly today. Was surprised he was subbed and not Molly.
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I read some stats this week about the effectiveness (or lack of) of shooting. It was on BBC site, football pages, discussing the disappearance of screamers. It was very interesting. This is only a rough number cos I can't remember the detail, but if you shoot from 12 yards (the penalty spot) about 1 in 7 or 8 will go in the net. Could do with someone finding that article though to firm up the numbers. So although we looked like we should have scored five Camps, statistically, we're about right. We need to shoot more....
BobG
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Got it!
https://www.bbc.com/sport/extra/7ruba7shs4/the-slow-death-of-the-screamer
BobG
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They aren’t bad players but it’s all about balance and the system for me.
A McCann team normally has a ‘no.6’ who can dictate the tempo of the game. That role is currently falling on Owen Bailey. Which he doesn’t fit, despite being a good player.
The wide players are often relied on to be prolific by either running in behind or playing close to the centre forward. Then offering that consistent quality week on week. Think Wilks or Adelakun. I’ve said it for months I’m not convinced that Gibson fits that bill, despite being a good player.
I feel that the signing of Billy Sharp has created some awkwardness with regards to the consistency of team selection because he’s Billy Sharp. Also, a McCann centre forward is normally a physical presence with the energy to tirelessly press. (Ironside, Marquis, Magennis). That isn’t Billy and it was on show against Notts County, despite him being a good player. Billy and Joe front 2 is then too slow. Yeah he’ll get goals but it doesn’t matter if we don’t get promoted.
That being said, I do think Maxwell returning and staying fit can improve our attack.
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I read some stats this week about the effectiveness (or lack of) of shooting. It was on BBC site, football pages, discussing the disappearance of screamers. It was very interesting. This is only a rough number cos I can't remember the detail, but if you shoot from 12 yards (the penalty spot) about 1 in 7 or 8 will go in the net. Could do with someone finding that article though to firm up the numbers. So although we looked like we should have scored five Camps, statistically, we're about right. We need to shoot more....
BobG
Yes we do need to shoot more. We try to score the perfect goal far too much.
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Certainly a tactical issue at home. We are underperforming our underlying numbers so that is compounding things as well BUT the underlying numbers aren’t good enough.
Think I know what we need to improve and may have mentioned it before. I’ve seen the exact same issue before when Mansfield struggled to get promoted and I also know what/how they changed and how that allowed them to kick on.
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GM has got some serious thinking to do over the next few weeks, leading up to January. Some decisions are easy and some just may be too costly for us, but one thing is for sure, we should be ‘clicking’ by now and we certainly are not. GM has already voiced his concern about our lack of goals and it’s obvious to most of us - we’re lacking in certain areas.
January could make or break us, as I think we’re not quite good enough to be a top 3 side, but a couple or 3 inspired signings/loans could see us finishing strongly.
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Certainly a tactical issue at home. We are underperforming our underlying numbers so that is compounding things as well BUT the underlying numbers aren’t good enough.
Think I know what we need to improve and may have mentioned it before. I’ve seen the exact same issue before when Mansfield struggled to get promoted and I also know what/how they changed and how that allowed them to kick on.
The Oracle has spoken, please enlighten us!? I'm sure GM will benefit from your wisdom also
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I’ve read this a few times now, that we’re only operating in 3rd gear and when it comes together we’ll blow teams away.
Two questions for those who’ve said/think like this:
1. Why do you think we will suddenly go up a couple of levels? Is it based on our run last season? McCann being manager? The belief that our squad/starting eleven is that much better than everyone else?
2. Why haven’t we reached those levels yet when we’re halfway through November? Bad luck? Poor tactics/team selection? Team still getting to know each other?
I’ve been disappointed with us a fair bit this season, more with how we’ve played in games when I’ve seen us rather than our position, which I think is absolutely fine. But I’m not sure I share that optimism for any reason beyond hope so I’d be interested to hear why there’s that confidence there and what’s prevented us stepping up so far.
Been thinking this too. Also that people seemed to say at the start of the season ‘give it ten games’.
I try and be optimistic but well we’ve played sixteen so when exactly are we going to click?
We always seem to be on the back foot chasing the game. We always seem to go behind and give ourselves a task. One shot on target today against Salford simply isn’t good enough. With Joe and Billy in the squad plus the quality of some of the others we should be peppering the opposition’s keeper with shots and into double figures.
It’s getting frustrating to watch again.
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Wasn’t part of Grants first interview (for Rovers job) a summary of how often we didn’t shoot when getting in a good position, we still don’t seem to be testing the keeper often enough despite some cracking play to get us up the pitch. Kelly was exceptional today
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Probably a result of falling short on the side of “fine margins”.
Just seen the short highlights clip - Gibson (?) hits the inside of the post and the ball rebounds just in front of the line. If he hits the post a couple of cm to the left, then all bounces over the line. Then the first chance they showed, ironside inches away from meeting the cross.
The other week, a couple of penalty shouts a.n.other ref might have given.
Flip those over, over a few more games and the goals for column and points looks much better.
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Probably a result of falling short on the side of “fine margins”.
Just seen the short highlights clip - Gibson (?) hits the inside of the post and the ball rebounds just in front of the line. If he hits the post a couple of cm to the left, then all bounces over the line. Then the first chance they showed, ironside inches away from meeting the cross.
The other week, a couple of penalty shouts a.n.other ref might have given.
Flip those over, over a few more games and the goals for column and points looks much better.
That shot of Gibson's, it would have needed millimetres to drop straight back for Ironside a tap in tbf.
Yes, we were unlucky on a few counts, but again the keeper had nowhere near enough shots to save than what he should have, frustrating to say the least.
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Certainly a tactical issue at home. We are underperforming our underlying numbers so that is compounding things as well BUT the underlying numbers aren’t good enough.
Think I know what we need to improve and may have mentioned it before. I’ve seen the exact same issue before when Mansfield struggled to get promoted and I also know what/how they changed and how that allowed them to kick on.
Well, what is it?
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Probably a result of falling short on the side of “fine margins”.
Just seen the short highlights clip - Gibson (?) hits the inside of the post and the ball rebounds just in front of the line. If he hits the post a couple of cm to the left, then all bounces over the line. Then the first chance they showed, ironside inches away from meeting the cross.
The other week, a couple of penalty shouts a.n.other ref might have given.
Flip those over, over a few more games and the goals for column and points looks much better.
That shot of Gibson's, it would have needed millimetres to drop straight back for Ironside a tap in tbf.
Yes, we were unlucky on a few counts, but again the keeper had nowhere near enough shots to save than what he should have, frustrating to say the least.
I think that if Ironside had tapped it in he would have been offside.
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How many thought we'd 'click' in January?
Do people not think we are closer to 'clicking' now than we were in January and therefore more likely to do so?
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In my opinion our crossing and set piece delivery is disgustingly poor of late.
Think about our goal last week. A simple ball, a simple goal. We don’t do it anywhere near enough.
How many balls did Joe, one of the best headers of a ball in the division, get to attack in the opposition box yesterday. I would say none!
This leads me to a bee in my bonnet about players playing on the wrong side of the pitch. When it works it’s great. Moly has proved that in spells.
Moly and Gibson were bang average yesterday. They looked like they had no clue what to do with the ball and their weaker feet are really quite poor. Hence their crossing was dreadful on the outside.
So when it’s not working, why not mix it up and switch flanks and just go simple for a period of time with the instructions of ‘get to the byline and cross the ball in the box’ on their stronger foot? We have two of the best finishers in the div. They aren’t players that are going to run in behind very often.
Hopefully the return of Maxwell will help this situation. He overlaps so much better. He’s arguably our best player and we miss him so much.
We’re not at crisis point yet but its just frustration as we can see we’re so much better than what we’re showing against some very average teams. This league is poor and we could win it at a canter.
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Our set pieces are definitely not an asset. Corners or either direct or indirect dead balls are usually very poor. We get a fair amount of wide set pieces because we play so much down the wings and we have decent players who draw fouls. We almost always totally waste these though. That seems the easiest thing to fix at present. It’s not like McGrath, Ironside and Olowu are without a threat.
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Our set pieces are definitely not an assets. Corners or either direct or indirect dead balls are usually very poor. We get a fair amount of wide set pieces because we play so much down the wings and we have decent players who draw fouls. We almost always totally waste these though. That seems the easiest thing to fix at present. It’s not like McGrath, Ironside and Olowu are without a threat.
I’m not sure why Sterry doesn’t take corners. His delivery in open play is arguably the best in the team.
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It feels like we've had more than our share of shithouse teams, and dogcrap referees which hasn't helped - bad refereeing has cost us 4points in the last 2 games.
But we are really underwhelming at the moment, their keeper could have sent his gloves back to the shop as new yesterday. We keep going behind in games and giving teams a foothold, and that goal yesterday was criminal, Sterry can't clear his lines, no one commits to their player and stop him getting the shot off.
Subs were also terrible yesterday - dragging Hurst, Gibson and Kelly was a mistake. And don't get me started with Yeboah.
I can't see it clicking any time soon, even if we do go and put three past a team like Grimsby, we'll likely lose the next game.
BUT, we're still in touch, still up there fighting, so if we can shuffle the pack a bit in Jan and add a couple of players with an impact Adulaken-like, we'll be up there at the end of the season.
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Out swinging corners should be banned. Much less chance of scoring from them than in swingers.
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How and why have other teams managed to ‘click’ I wonder.
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All those 21 teams currently below us in the table.?
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In my opinion our crossing and set piece delivery is disgustingly poor of late.
Think about our goal last week. A simple ball, a simple goal. We don’t do it anywhere near enough.
How many balls did Joe, one of the best headers of a ball in the division, get to attack in the opposition box yesterday. I would say none!
This leads me to a bee in my bonnet about players playing on the wrong side of the pitch. When it works it’s great. Moly has proved that in spells.
Moly and Gibson were bang average yesterday. They looked like they had no clue what to do with the ball and their weaker feet are really quite poor. Hence their crossing was dreadful on the outside.
So when it’s not working, why not mix it up and switch flanks and just go simple for a period of time with the instructions of ‘get to the byline and cross the ball in the box’ on their stronger foot? We have two of the best finishers in the div. They aren’t players that are going to run in behind very often.
Hopefully the return of Maxwell will help this situation. He overlaps so much better. He’s arguably our best player and we miss him so much.
We’re not at crisis point yet but its just frustration as we can see we’re so much better than what we’re showing against some very average teams. This league is poor and we could win it at a canter.
Agreed, been saying this for a while, we don't get anywhere near enough crosses into the box for Sharp/Ironside, & when we do, they are, in the main, very very poor. We are doing well in the league, but there's still loads to work on, & I'm sure Grant will sort it.
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In my opinion our crossing and set piece delivery is disgustingly poor of late.
Think about our goal last week. A simple ball, a simple goal. We don’t do it anywhere near enough.
How many balls did Joe, one of the best headers of a ball in the division, get to attack in the opposition box yesterday. I would say none!
This leads me to a bee in my bonnet about players playing on the wrong side of the pitch. When it works it’s great. Moly has proved that in spells.
Moly and Gibson were bang average yesterday. They looked like they had no clue what to do with the ball and their weaker feet are really quite poor. Hence their crossing was dreadful on the outside.
So when it’s not working, why not mix it up and switch flanks and just go simple for a period of time with the instructions of ‘get to the byline and cross the ball in the box’ on their stronger foot? We have two of the best finishers in the div. They aren’t players that are going to run in behind very often.
Hopefully the return of Maxwell will help this situation. He overlaps so much better. He’s arguably our best player and we miss him so much.
We’re not at crisis point yet but its just frustration as we can see we’re so much better than what we’re showing against some very average teams. This league is poor and we could win it at a canter.
Agreed, been saying this for a while, we don't get anywhere near enough crosses into the box for Sharp/Ironside, & when we do, they are, in the main, very very poor. We are doing well in the league, but there's still loads to work on, & I'm sure Grant will sort it.
We’ve put more crosses onto the box than any other team this season.
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In my opinion our crossing and set piece delivery is disgustingly poor of late.
Think about our goal last week. A simple ball, a simple goal. We don’t do it anywhere near enough.
How many balls did Joe, one of the best headers of a ball in the division, get to attack in the opposition box yesterday. I would say none!
This leads me to a bee in my bonnet about players playing on the wrong side of the pitch. When it works it’s great. Moly has proved that in spells.
Moly and Gibson were bang average yesterday. They looked like they had no clue what to do with the ball and their weaker feet are really quite poor. Hence their crossing was dreadful on the outside.
So when it’s not working, why not mix it up and switch flanks and just go simple for a period of time with the instructions of ‘get to the byline and cross the ball in the box’ on their stronger foot? We have two of the best finishers in the div. They aren’t players that are going to run in behind very often.
Hopefully the return of Maxwell will help this situation. He overlaps so much better. He’s arguably our best player and we miss him so much.
We’re not at crisis point yet but its just frustration as we can see we’re so much better than what we’re showing against some very average teams. This league is poor and we could win it at a canter.
Agreed, been saying this for a while, we don't get anywhere near enough crosses into the box for Sharp/Ironside, & when we do, they are, in the main, very very poor. We are doing well in the league, but there's still loads to work on, & I'm sure Grant will sort it.
We’ve put more crosses onto the box than any other team this season.
Are they effective crosses or crosses that go above players in the box or get blocked before they get to any of our players. Do our wide attacking forwards get to the by line to cross.
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In my opinion our crossing and set piece delivery is disgustingly poor of late.
Think about our goal last week. A simple ball, a simple goal. We don’t do it anywhere near enough.
How many balls did Joe, one of the best headers of a ball in the division, get to attack in the opposition box yesterday. I would say none!
This leads me to a bee in my bonnet about players playing on the wrong side of the pitch. When it works it’s great. Moly has proved that in spells.
Moly and Gibson were bang average yesterday. They looked like they had no clue what to do with the ball and their weaker feet are really quite poor. Hence their crossing was dreadful on the outside.
So when it’s not working, why not mix it up and switch flanks and just go simple for a period of time with the instructions of ‘get to the byline and cross the ball in the box’ on their stronger foot? We have two of the best finishers in the div. They aren’t players that are going to run in behind very often.
Hopefully the return of Maxwell will help this situation. He overlaps so much better. He’s arguably our best player and we miss him so much.
We’re not at crisis point yet but its just frustration as we can see we’re so much better than what we’re showing against some very average teams. This league is poor and we could win it at a canter.
Agreed, been saying this for a while, we don't get anywhere near enough crosses into the box for Sharp/Ironside, & when we do, they are, in the main, very very poor. We are doing well in the league, but there's still loads to work on, & I'm sure Grant will sort it.
We’ve put more crosses onto the box than any other team this season.
Are they effective crosses or crosses that go above players in the box or get blocked before they get to any of our players. Do our wide attacking forwards get to the by line to cross.
That’s a different question.
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We might put plenty of crosses in but for me the service is too often poor because we don’t make space for our wide players so everything they do is under pressure. Luke for instance is a top, top player when he is attacking with pace but how many times have we seen him double marked and trying to step inside a couple of defenders at walking pace and have the ball nipped off him and a break on, how many times are we trying to thread a cross through a wall of defenders, how many times are we asking one of the central defenders to play a wonder pass that rarely comes off. The big difference with last year for me is that, in different ways, Adelakun and Craig were masters at creating space and others flourished as a result: Joe benefited from improved service and central midfield became a threat rather than ball shufflers- Owen was developing into a real goal threat and Biggins became transformed. It’s perplexing because I really rate our squad and results show we are more than competitive but atm I think we are too predictable and don’t create enough genuine goal threats to be confident of top 3. Grant has proven that he can find a way but it will be fascinating to see what he thinks we need in January.
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In my opinion our crossing and set piece delivery is disgustingly poor of late.
Think about our goal last week. A simple ball, a simple goal. We don’t do it anywhere near enough.
How many balls did Joe, one of the best headers of a ball in the division, get to attack in the opposition box yesterday. I would say none!
This leads me to a bee in my bonnet about players playing on the wrong side of the pitch. When it works it’s great. Moly has proved that in spells.
Moly and Gibson were bang average yesterday. They looked like they had no clue what to do with the ball and their weaker feet are really quite poor. Hence their crossing was dreadful on the outside.
So when it’s not working, why not mix it up and switch flanks and just go simple for a period of time with the instructions of ‘get to the byline and cross the ball in the box’ on their stronger foot? We have two of the best finishers in the div. They aren’t players that are going to run in behind very often.
Hopefully the return of Maxwell will help this situation. He overlaps so much better. He’s arguably our best player and we miss him so much.
We’re not at crisis point yet but its just frustration as we can see we’re so much better than what we’re showing against some very average teams. This league is poor and we could win it at a canter.
Agreed, been saying this for a while, we don't get anywhere near enough crosses into the box for Sharp/Ironside, & when we do, they are, in the main, very very poor. We are doing well in the league, but there's still loads to work on, & I'm sure Grant will sort it.
We’ve put more crosses onto the box than any other team this season.
In my opinion our crossing and set piece delivery is disgustingly poor of late.
Think about our goal last week. A simple ball, a simple goal. We don’t do it anywhere near enough.
How many balls did Joe, one of the best headers of a ball in the division, get to attack in the opposition box yesterday. I would say none!
This leads me to a bee in my bonnet about players playing on the wrong side of the pitch. When it works it’s great. Moly has proved that in spells.
Moly and Gibson were bang average yesterday. They looked like they had no clue what to do with the ball and their weaker feet are really quite poor. Hence their crossing was dreadful on the outside.
So when it’s not working, why not mix it up and switch flanks and just go simple for a period of time with the instructions of ‘get to the byline and cross the ball in the box’ on their stronger foot? We have two of the best finishers in the div. They aren’t players that are going to run in behind very often.
Hopefully the return of Maxwell will help this situation. He overlaps so much better. He’s arguably our best player and we miss him so much.
We’re not at crisis point yet but its just frustration as we can see we’re so much better than what we’re showing against some very average teams. This league is poor and we could win it at a canter.
Agreed, been saying this for a while, we don't get anywhere near enough crosses into the box for Sharp/Ironside, & when we do, they are, in the main, very very poor. We are doing well in the league, but there's still loads to work on, & I'm sure Grant will sort it.
We’ve put more crosses onto the box than any other team this season.
I stand corrected, then the crosses are even worse than I thought. We overplay at times on the flanks, & the crosses don't come in until the opponents are set, couple that with the poor quality, Sterry aside, & it's no wonder the strikers are fed on scraps.
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We might put plenty of crosses in but for me the service is too often poor because we don’t make space for our wide players so everything they do is under pressure. Luke for instance is a top, top player when he is attacking with pace but how many times have we seen him double marked and trying to step inside a couple of defenders at walking pace and have the ball nipped off him and a break on, how many times are we trying to thread a cross through a wall of defenders, how many times are we asking one of the central defenders to play a wonder pass that rarely comes off. The big difference with last year for me is that, in different ways, Adelakun and Craig were masters at creating space and others flourished as a result: Joe benefited from improved service and central midfield became a threat rather than ball shufflers- Owen was developing into a real goal threat and Biggins became transformed. It’s perplexing because I really rate our squad and results show we are more than competitive but atm I think we are too predictable and don’t create enough genuine goal threats to be confident of top 3. Grant has proven that he can find a way but it will be fascinating to see what he thinks we need in January.
If we are talking about home games then it is inevitable that we are trying to play a ball through a wall of defenders because teams more often than not set up to play ten men behind the ball against us.
There is very little space when we are attacking.
Away from home it is different and is shown by the number of wins we are getting as opposed to home wins.
However, I have noticed in the last few home games that we are getting players in behind defenders more often but sadly we have been unable to pick out players in the middle with the final ball.
It is the quality of crosses which needs to improve.
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In my opinion our crossing and set piece delivery is disgustingly poor of late.
Think about our goal last week. A simple ball, a simple goal. We don’t do it anywhere near enough.
How many balls did Joe, one of the best headers of a ball in the division, get to attack in the opposition box yesterday. I would say none!
This leads me to a bee in my bonnet about players playing on the wrong side of the pitch. When it works it’s great. Moly has proved that in spells.
Moly and Gibson were bang average yesterday. They looked like they had no clue what to do with the ball and their weaker feet are really quite poor. Hence their crossing was dreadful on the outside.
So when it’s not working, why not mix it up and switch flanks and just go simple for a period of time with the instructions of ‘get to the byline and cross the ball in the box’ on their stronger foot? We have two of the best finishers in the div. They aren’t players that are going to run in behind very often.
Hopefully the return of Maxwell will help this situation. He overlaps so much better. He’s arguably our best player and we miss him so much.
We’re not at crisis point yet but its just frustration as we can see we’re so much better than what we’re showing against some very average teams. This league is poor and we could win it at a canter.
Agreed, been saying this for a while, we don't get anywhere near enough crosses into the box for Sharp/Ironside, & when we do, they are, in the main, very very poor. We are doing well in the league, but there's still loads to work on, & I'm sure Grant will sort it.
We’ve put more crosses onto the box than any other team this season.
In my opinion our crossing and set piece delivery is disgustingly poor of late.
Think about our goal last week. A simple ball, a simple goal. We don’t do it anywhere near enough.
How many balls did Joe, one of the best headers of a ball in the division, get to attack in the opposition box yesterday. I would say none!
This leads me to a bee in my bonnet about players playing on the wrong side of the pitch. When it works it’s great. Moly has proved that in spells.
Moly and Gibson were bang average yesterday. They looked like they had no clue what to do with the ball and their weaker feet are really quite poor. Hence their crossing was dreadful on the outside.
So when it’s not working, why not mix it up and switch flanks and just go simple for a period of time with the instructions of ‘get to the byline and cross the ball in the box’ on their stronger foot? We have two of the best finishers in the div. They aren’t players that are going to run in behind very often.
Hopefully the return of Maxwell will help this situation. He overlaps so much better. He’s arguably our best player and we miss him so much.
We’re not at crisis point yet but its just frustration as we can see we’re so much better than what we’re showing against some very average teams. This league is poor and we could win it at a canter.
Agreed, been saying this for a while, we don't get anywhere near enough crosses into the box for Sharp/Ironside, & when we do, they are, in the main, very very poor. We are doing well in the league, but there's still loads to work on, & I'm sure Grant will sort it.
We’ve put more crosses onto the box than any other team this season.
I stand corrected, then the crosses are even worse than I thought. We overplay at times on the flanks, & the crosses don't come in until the opponents are set, couple that with the poor quality, Sterry aside, & it's no wonder the strikers are fed on scraps.
Your points still very valid, *more good crosses.
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I get that it’s tighter at home but I don’t buy that a top 3 team would struggle so much. Whatever the underlying reason let’s hope that Grant will sort.
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Intelligent though most of the responses to this thread are I think all of them have missed the real reason. Putting it simply Lady Luck.is to blame. It will change. Molly's corner on another day would have been awarded. His shot would have gone in. Gibson hitting the post would have been a goal. This has been a pattern so far this season whereby we deserved to win games but did not. Had luck been on our side we would not even be discussing the matter.
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Intelligent though most of the responses to this thread are I think all of them have missed the real reason. Putting it simply Lady Luck.is to blame. It will change. Molly's corner on another day would have been awarded. His shot would have gone in. Gibson hitting the post would have been a goal. This has been a pattern so far this season whereby we deserved to win games but did not. Had luck been on our side we would not even be discussing the matter.
There's no doubt that luck plays a huge part in any sport, but to put poor home form purely down to luck is evading the issues. Gibson hit the post because his shot was off target. Yes, on another day he might have scored, but that's down to accuracy rather than luck.
I once remember a famous golfer saying that the more he practiced, the luckier he seemed to get.
I think you'll find that GM will be trying to solve some of these problems in the January window.
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You make your own luck.
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But you can’t do owt about bad ref decisions or the oppo defence playing above their usual performance level..
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You make your own luck
Then surely it isn't luck?
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You make your own luck
Then surely it isn't luck?
Well it is.
Its about belief. In your ability. So much is psychological and arguably the hardest job for a Manager is to develop the self belief in his players that makes all the difference.
Definitely you make your own luck, if you do not think.you will win you probably won't.
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Intelligent though most of the responses to this thread are I think all of them have missed the real reason. Putting it simply Lady Luck.is to blame. It will change. Molly's corner on another day would have been awarded. His shot would have gone in. Gibson hitting the post would have been a goal. This has been a pattern so far this season whereby we deserved to win games but did not. Had luck been on our side we would not even be discussing the matter.
There's no doubt that luck plays a huge part in any sport, but to put poor home form purely down to luck is evading the issues. Gibson hit the post because his shot was off target. Yes, on another day he might have scored, but that's down to accuracy rather than luck.
I once remember a famous golfer saying that the more he practiced, the luckier he seemed to get.
I think you'll find that GM will be trying to solve some of these problems in the January window.
Tend to agree about making luck. It looks like we tend to play 'off the cuff' football with GM saying he gives the players freedom to express themselves. That can be a good thing especially when confidence is high. On the other hand it can make things too unpredictable to the point teammates find it harder to anticipate things.
When referencing crosses, we tend to see 'percentage' crosses rather than picking someone out with players head down concentrating on the ball rather than head up. There has been some noticeable exceptions though but, we need to increase our accuracy and quality, as even the stats suggest our conversion rate is poor.
It doesn't take that much, as others have suggested, to tip the balance the right way.
I tend to be more accurate off the tee with a specific target, rather than anywhere on the fairway will do.
Take an extra second to look up lads and our accuracy will improve. I think this is what McCann means when he said we rush things and we should sometimes take an extra touch. My first instinct was taking more time and an extra touch leads to more blocked shots and crosses but it's more about reading each situation better. Less haste more speed of thought.
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Sorry but disagree entirely. Surely luck, by definition, is something that happens by chance and there's really nothing we can do mentally or physically to sway it either way. People buy lottery tickets every week hoping the numbers fall their way. All the preparation in the world won't affect the outcome. I do agree that things even themselves out. A complete fluke of a goal against one week and a very dodgy penalty given in your favour the next. There are some things you just can't legislate for. That's just pure bad/good luck. I'd be happy for all 50/50 refereeing decisions to go Rovers' way. Now that would be lucky! RTID.
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I think your point about luck is correct in the literal meaning of the word, Rich, but the point about 'the more I practice the luckier I get' is just a play on words to say the only thing a player can really affect is his own performance so he must do everything he can to improve it.
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I think the big difference this season won't be driven so much by our players "clicking" as by our strength in depth as injuries and suspensions start to eat into opposing squads as the season wears on.
A few people have mentioned Maxwell's return being a boost to our attacking potency but for me he can be a bit one dimensional. He either chooses or is pressed into turning inside onto his left foot then having to play the ball backwards.
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I think your point about luck is correct in the literal meaning of the word, Rich, but the point about 'the more I practice the luckier I get' is just a play on words to say the only thing a player can really affect is his own performance so he must do everything he can to improve it.
I think it was Gary Player! Some situations like the Lottery are governed by luck; others, as in sport, have an element of luck - a deflection, a bounce, a human error, a miskick, a refereeing decision amongst them. Some work your way which are not always acknowledged but you notice those which don’t. (A bit like refs.) You cannot eliminate bad bounces, bad deflections and lucky interventions, but even if you practice a lot and have great determination you will still be affected by luck, but these qualities will see you succeed more than others - witness Haaland.
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If lady luck had have been a little kinder, in the last two home games, we could easily be 4 points better off. I think we'd still be talking about our shortfalls and how we could ge better. That doesn't necessarily mean we're going to smash the opposition but do more to control games so luck doesn't bite us in the bum.
We still have some relatively young players on the pitch who are still learning to deal with the expectations on their shoulders.
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I know our recent home form doesn't look great, and I acknowledge that we need to improve in terms of both creating, and taking chances.
However, look at the last 6 at home:
Chesterfield 0-3 L
Barrow 1-0 W
Crewe 1-1 D
Bromley 0-1 L
Notts Co 1-1 D
Salford 1-1 D
Chesterfield is a hard one to judge - we were poor first half but changed shape at HT and started the 2nd half with good intent, only for that to be derailed within the first 5-10 mins by Molyneux getting sent off. I still feel we might have found a way back in the game if it had stayed 11v11.
Looking at the other five - Barrow was a narrow win in a tight game, then Crewe and Notts County weren't bad results at all. They are both teams that are proving difficult to beat and are right up there with us at the top end of the table. With a bit more luck and clinical edge we could've won both of them at the end. Taking a point from promotion rivals isn't disastrous at all though.
It's the Salford's and Bromley's where the improvement needs to come. The Bromley game we probably win 8/10 times if it was replayed. Salford wasn't great but again, fine margins away from winning.
I don't think we're a million miles off. I think we're getting into good areas and positions, but the final ball is hindering chance creation and conversion. I think Grant is right that we've been wasteful, but it's generally the bit just before the chance rather than the chance itself IMO. Ticking along in 3rd/4th suits me just fine at this stage anyway, still a long way to go.
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If lady luck had have been a little kinder, in the last two home games, we could easily be 4 points better off. I think we'd still be talking about our shortfalls and how we could ge better. That doesn't necessarily mean we're going to smash the opposition but do more to control games so luck doesn't bite us in the bum.
We still have some relatively young players on the pitch who are still learning to deal with the expectations on their shoulders.
Can anyone honestly say that the opposing teams have not had a share of bad luck because I doubt whether in watching games we focus on their bad fortunes? I make the point because in any analysis it is so easy to blame bad luck and I fear that this is what is happening here, rather than concentrating on objective facts.
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If lady luck had have been a little kinder, in the last two home games, we could easily be 4 points better off. I think we'd still be talking about our shortfalls and how we could ge better. That doesn't necessarily mean we're going to smash the opposition but do more to control games so luck doesn't bite us in the bum.
We still have some relatively young players on the pitch who are still learning to deal with the expectations on their shoulders.
Can anyone honestly say that the opposing teams have not had a share of bad luck because I doubt whether in watching games we focus on their bad fortunes? I make the point because in any analysis it is so easy to blame bad luck and I fear that this is what is happening here, rather than concentrating on objective facts.
Well that's the point I and others are making, we haven't been unlucky. The performances haven't really merited more than what we've got. We need to improve and more importantly GM knows that. I hope he can find the right ways to unlock the door and get the players to realise our potential.
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Lads we are joint 2nd coming up to Christmas. 1 or 2 will leave and one would like to think 1 or 2 will come in and I see no reason we won't compete for the title.
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Still not clicking. Sounds terrible on the radio.
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Still not clicking. Sounds terrible on the radio.
Not terrible but we’ve certainly played better.
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I think we all know we're not quite there at the moment, however we're up there and competing at the top end of the table. Grant will improve us in January in the midfield and forward areas and I expect us to kick on from there. Be interesting to see if we could manage to get Matty Craig back in Jan , doesn't seem to be going right for him at Barnsley as it stands.
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That was turgid crap. Seems a long time since we went all those games on the bounce looking confident and positive. Lucky to get the point today. We look frightened to shoot, slow in the build up, just clueless. Not a fun watch that.
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Absolute school kids in front of goal
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That was turgid crap. Seems a long time since we went all those games on the bounce looking confident and positive. Lucky to get the point today. We look frightened to shoot, slow in the build up, just clueless. Not a fun watch that.
Not just the finishing then?
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Our decision making in the box is horrendous. Also this team really lacks pace.
Not good enough as they were awful.
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Still think we miss Westbrook in the middle
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On a positive note, it's a point away from home and we've only lost one game in the last eleven.
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We need a midfield. End of!
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We need a midfield. End of!
Kelly was good today, but Bailey and Hurst were poor.
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According to the BBC, we had 50 touches in the opponent's penalty area today. Across all 4 divisions today only Coventry managed more, and they had a man advantage for the majority of their game.
We are staggeringly poor at converting possession in dangerous areas into chances and goals. I've never seen a team as wasteful in the final 3rd as this one.
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There is no panic
We create chances we are pretty solid at the back rarely concede more than one goal
When was the last time we did? It’s quite a while ago Chesterfield game I think.
We are not scoring enough goals we know & we are 3rd in the league after 17 games.
When we do start scoring and it will happen where will we be in the league.
Massively confident we will win the league
I think we have a better squad than Port Vale, Walsall, Crewe etc
Notts C & Chesterfield will be our biggest rivals for top spot come March imo
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Caveat one. I think McCann will get us up this season. Maybe easily, maybe less easily. But I can see him getting us up.
Issue is that if he doesn’t, we’re in a mess. I cannot see him wanting to stay and do a third season in the fourth tier. Then as we have as a club put all our eggs in the Grant and Cliff shaped basket with no DoF model in place (in fact we dismantled this) we are right back to square one again, dependant on the next manager being a success and making a success of a squad that McCann put together at significant cost.
It is in all our interests that he gets us up this season.
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I think all these blank weeks are doing us no favours at all (well, maybe one - injuries). We seem to be going backwards!
;)
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Others have alluded to this, but maybe having a massive squad is hindering us. We had a very settled team in last season’s run, but this season we have players starting one week, and then not even making the squad the next. Not sure there are many games where we’ve had an unchanged team and we do look disjointed at times.
Obviously we’re still in a good position and I still don’t think we are a million miles away, but maybe we need to decide on a system and an XI and stick with it for a few games.
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Others have alluded to this, but maybe having a massive squad is hindering us. We had a very settled team in last season’s run, but this season we have players starting one week, and then not even making the squad the next. Not sure there are many games where we’ve had an unchanged team and we do look disjointed at times.
Obviously we’re still in a good position and I still don’t think we are a million miles away, but maybe we need to decide on a system and an XI and stick with it for a few games.
Another way of putting it would be to ask whether we have such a diverse array of talent that the "Horses for courses" approach works? This is not a league in which there is a great deal of sophistication in what we are up against. McCann needs to decide as a matter of urgency which is his best 11 + subs and put out those 16 every match. The 16 may vary a bit depending on form, but players like Fleming can't be good enough for the first 11 one week and not even OK for rhe bench the next. I mention the subs, because players like Sbarra and Yeboah are limited compared with all-rounders like Clifton and Fleming. It seems crazy to not even put them on the bench.
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I think all these blank weeks are doing us no favours at all (well, maybe one - injuries). We seem to be going backwards!
;)
What blank weeks Alan? We have drawn the last 3 games haven’t we. We are 3rd in the league after 17 games. Where were we after 17 games last season?
How is that going backwards may I ask.
Alan you do seem to find a way to put a negative slant to nearly all your posts.
Look I know it’s frustrating at present but all that is missing is putting the ball in the net.
We are creating, that is very important. We have a very good squad with almost everyone fit.
We are 3rd in the league and we haven’t got to anywhere near what we are capable of yet.
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I think all these blank weeks are doing us no favours at all (well, maybe one - injuries). We seem to be going backwards!
;)
What blank weeks Alan? We have drawn the last 3 games haven’t we. We are 3rd in the league after 17 games. Where were we after 17 games last season?
How is that going backwards may I ask.
Alan you do seem to find a way to put a negative slant to nearly all your posts.
Look I know it’s frustrating at present but all that is missing is putting the ball in the net.
We are creating, that is very important. We have a very good squad with almost everyone fit.
We are 3rd in the league and we haven’t got to anywhere near what we are capable of yet.
Think he means no midweek games.
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We’re more than capable of going on a 4 or 5 unbeaten streak.
Really don’t think we’ll go the other way.
The next 2 months for me will sort the men out from the boys .
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I think all these blank weeks are doing us no favours at all (well, maybe one - injuries). We seem to be going backwards!
;)
What blank weeks Alan? We have drawn the last 3 games haven’t we. We are 3rd in the league after 17 games. Where were we after 17 games last season?
How is that going backwards may I ask.
Alan you do seem to find a way to put a negative slant to nearly all your posts.
Look I know it’s frustrating at present but all that is missing is putting the ball in the net.
We are creating, that is very important. We have a very good squad with almost everyone fit.
We are 3rd in the league and we haven’t got to anywhere near what we are capable of yet.
Think he means no midweek games.
Oh right. Don’t see how that hinders us. Surely that helps doesn’t it.
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Caveat one. I think McCann will get us up this season. Maybe easily, maybe less easily. But I can see him getting us up.
Issue is that if he doesn’t, we’re in a mess. I cannot see him wanting to stay and do a third season in the fourth tier. Then as we have as a club put all our eggs in the Grant and Cliff shaped basket with no DoF model in place (in fact we dismantled this) we are right back to square one again, dependant on the next manager being a success and making a success of a squad that McCann put together at significant cost.
It is in all our interests that he gets us up this season.
Has he not been backed by the board? Should be no excuses, if he fails to get us promoted that will be on him nobody else
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We’re more than capable of going on a 4 or 5 unbeaten streak.
Really don’t think we’ll go the other way.
The next 2 months for me will sort the men out from the boys .
uh
Isn't it 1 in 11 we've lost now?
BobG
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Winning 4 or 5 on the bounce then.
Just to make my point clear bob
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Lol!
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Lol!
We need to win 3 of the next 4 league games. Take a draw at Wimbledon although they are now faltering at home after winning their 1st 5 home league games.
It’s not essential of course but 10 points from the next 12 puts us in a strong position going into the Christmas & New Year holiday games.
Surely surely we are due a win at that place just North of Blackpool. Yes I actually hate even saying their name.
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Well McCann has to find a way of lifting the players, particularly those who are a bit under par at the moment. Molyneux, Bailey, Ironside even Billy. Whether that comes through giving them a rest, who knows but we seem to be struggling with the weight of expectations on some shoulders.
The build up and the match v Kettering could be a very important week. If we can put on a really professional performance and score a couple of goals, it will do us the world of good to take into the next run of games. It's amazing how quickly things can change, as we saw last season. The intensity improves and it looks like the players actually relish every challenge put before them.
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Well McCann has to find a way of lifting the players, particularly those who are a bit under par at the moment. Molyneux, Bailey, Ironside even Billy. Whether that comes through giving them a rest, who knows but we seem to be struggling with the weight of expectations on some shoulders.
The build up and the match v Kettering could be a very important week. If we can put on a really professional performance and score a couple of goals, it will do us the world of good to take into the next run of games. It's amazing how quickly things can change, as we saw last season. The intensity improves and it looks like the players actually relish every challenge put before them.
It can change quickly Baz. I remember sitting at Notts County away last boxing day and thinking we'd be going down - no heart, no quality, no fight - the rest of last season is history now! But there's a risk of us being too optimistic that we're going to do that again - it was once in 50 years stuff last year. This season is about points on the board, keeping up that 2pt average and staying close to the pack. Lots of teams with games in hand means we'll start slipping down the league quickly if we don't start turning 1's in to 3's very soon.
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Campsall:
Oh right. Don’t see how that hinders us. Surely that helps doesn’t it.
The performances seem to suggest otherwise, Camps.
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Campsall:
Oh right. Don’t see how that hinders us. Surely that helps doesn’t it.
The performances seem to suggest otherwise, Camps.
So how does playing 2 games every week make us a better team. Less rest, less time on the training pitch working on improving.
Not sure I follow your train of thought.
It just takes one game where we score 3 goals and I am confident we will be flying again.
The fact is we have lost 1 game in the last 11 played in all competitions while not playing anywhere near what this team ( squad ) are capable of.
That to me is a massive positive & suggests when we do “start to click” then we will be some force.
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My train of thought is quite simple really, our form has dipped quite a bit recently and, other than GM turning into Mr Tinkerman, I’m at a loss to explain it. It coincides with the fixture programme as it is. November is proving to be a very poor month from the point of view of collecting league points!
There’s a few things, not just the lack of goals, that seems to be hindering us and they’ve been well documented on here:
Playing a ‘settled’ side seems to be a thing of the past
Undecided whether it’s Sharp or Ironside
Gibson in and out the side
On the other hand, Molyneux always in despite a few, shall we say ‘mixed’ performances
The only permanent fixture in the midfield has been Bailey - the others have been ‘rotated’ regularly.
GM has had to select McGrath and Olowu, due to injuries and suspensions, and it’s no surprise to see those two performing really consistently!
We had the formula last season, when achieving that magical winning run, but we missed a trick by not having Craig & Adelakun in our squad for this season. I fully realise that there are mitigating factors why that didn’t happen, but what we replaced those 2 with have not had anywhere near the same impact on the team’s performances this season.
My fingers are crossed for a very good January window, as there’s definately something missing from this team.
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My train of thought is quite simple really, our form has dipped quite a bit recently and, other than GM turning into Mr Tinkerman, I’m at a loss to explain it. It coincides with the fixture programme as it is. November is proving to be a very poor month from the point of view of collecting league points!
There’s a few things, not just the lack of goals, that seems to be hindering us and they’ve been well documented on here:
Playing a ‘settled’ side seems to be a thing of the past
Undecided whether it’s Sharp or Ironside
Gibson in and out the side
On the other hand, Molyneux always in despite a few, shall we say ‘mixed’ performances
The only permanent fixture in the midfield has been Bailey - the others have been ‘rotated’ regularly.
GM has had to select McGrath and Olowu, due to injuries and suspensions, and it’s no surprise to see those two performing really consistently!
We had the formula last season, when achieving that magical winning run, but we missed a trick by not having Craig & Adelakun in our squad for this season. I fully realise that there are mitigating factors why that didn’t happen, but what we replaced those 2 with have not had anywhere near the same impact on the team’s performances this season.
My fingers are crossed for a very good January window, as there’s definately something missing from this team.
There is a lot of what you say there Alan that I agree with.
Playing a more settled side would I think be a big help.
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I just hope this having 2 for every position doesn't come back to bite us. While I trust Grant, just niggles me that there are some good players we have that don't even make the squad, is that good for their moral? fitness, continuity of the team, forming partnerships & understanding, all factors to consider. Surely players want to be playing every week, never mind not even making the bench. Hopefully all the players have bought into it. I'm sure we'll be flying performance wise soon, & the strong squad will be needed in the winter months.
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My train of thought is quite simple really, our form has dipped quite a bit recently and, other than GM turning into Mr Tinkerman, I’m at a loss to explain it. It coincides with the fixture programme as it is. November is proving to be a very poor month from the point of view of collecting league points!
There’s a few things, not just the lack of goals, that seems to be hindering us and they’ve been well documented on here:
Playing a ‘settled’ side seems to be a thing of the past
Undecided whether it’s Sharp or Ironside
Gibson in and out the side
On the other hand, Molyneux always in despite a few, shall we say ‘mixed’ performances
The only permanent fixture in the midfield has been Bailey - the others have been ‘rotated’ regularly.
GM has had to select McGrath and Olowu, due to injuries and suspensions, and it’s no surprise to see those two performing really consistently!
We had the formula last season, when achieving that magical winning run, but we missed a trick by not having Craig & Adelakun in our squad for this season. I fully realise that there are mitigating factors why that didn’t happen, but what we replaced those 2 with have not had anywhere near the same impact on the team’s performances this season.
My fingers are crossed for a very good January window, as there’s definately something missing from this team.
There is a lot of what you say there Alan that I agree with.
Playing a more settled side would I think be a big help.
I’m not saying you are wrong and a settled side wouldn’t help BUT the benefits of managing player minutes now will only really be known in the latter part of the season. What could be the best for now could be detrimental over the season as a whole.
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I’m not saying you are wrong and a settled side wouldn’t help
Do you mean would help? The rest then makes sense.
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I don't think he does mean would Alan. Not managing players time on pitch right now might be great in the short-term but it could lead to a drop off in performance later in the season that costs more than we gained.
BobG
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Now the pitches are gettiing heavier the injuries and suspensions will affect other clubs far worse than us. The benefit of a big squad should start to tell from now onwards, hopefully.