Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: Copps is Magic on January 01, 2025, 06:28:42 pm
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What's happened compared to last season?
I mean more goals would be nice, but he's also been far less effective at disrupting play up top and bringing the ball into play, which was his game.
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In my opinion, strikers must be played regularly without fear of being dropped/subbed constantly to achieve maximum potential.
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The service he is getting is pish poor. We have winger that would rather shoot from 25 yards out then cross it to him
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I thought he played well today, no worse than last year at all.
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Are we allowed to criticise now? Because when I raised earlier this season there were plenty on her very sensitive of any criticism.
He's got as many goals and assists this season as Olowu. Just not good enough.
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I thought he played well today, no worse than last year at all.
People judging performances by goals.Over achieved last season so likely to underperform this season to revert to the mean.
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Are we allowed to criticise now? Because when I raised earlier this season there were plenty on her very sensitive of any criticism.
He's got as many goals and assists this season as Olowu. Just not good enough.
Can we have examples of poor play from Ironside today please?
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In my opinion, strikers must be played regularly without fear of being dropped/subbed constantly to achieve maximum potential.
I just think this is nonsense. He's played loads of minutes.
Ironside
Mins played 1,282
Goals 2
Sharp
Mins played 1,374
Goals 7
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Are we allowed to criticise now? Because when I raised earlier this season there were plenty on her very sensitive of any criticism.
He's got as many goals and assists this season as Olowu. Just not good enough.
Can we have examples of poor play from Ironside today please?
Running through treacle on the counter
Pulled out of a one on one with the keeper
Back to goal when the ball comes to him, can't get a shot on
Running out to the corner randomly in the first minute of the second half
And it was admittedly one of his better games.
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In my opinion, strikers must be played regularly without fear of being dropped/subbed constantly to achieve maximum potential.
I just think this is nonsense. He's played loads of minutes.
Ironside
Mins played 1,282
Goals 2
Sharp
Mins played 1,374
Goals 7
I would guarantee that Ironside and Sharp would have scored many more if they had played in every game together and not been alternated.
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Pretty irrelevant who played up front today when our back 5 play a game of pass on their own.
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Are we allowed to criticise now? Because when I raised earlier this season there were plenty on her very sensitive of any criticism.
He's got as many goals and assists this season as Olowu. Just not good enough.
Can we have examples of poor play from Ironside today please?
Running through treacle on the counter
Pulled out of a one on one with the keeper
Back to goal when the ball comes to him, can't get a shot on
Running out to the corner randomly in the first minute of the second half
And it was admittedly one of his better games.
If he’s gone in to that challenge with the goalie he’d have been at risk of getting sent off or seriously injuring himself and the goalkeeper.
If you want to judge a target man by the things that a target man isn’t judged on then crack on.
Can you give an example of when he should have been facing goal to take a shot today?
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Really don't get what the sensitivity with ironside is. He had a good season last year so we must never criticise him.
The fact is he does not look like scoring. From headers, from free kicks, crosses, balls through the middle, balls at the edge of the box.. You name it, he does not look like scoring right now.
I take no pleasure in that, I want him scoring goals for us. But it's an uncontestable fact he is on 2 goals in 24 matches which is incidentally worse form than when Joe Dodoo managed 4 goals in 33 games in our relegation year...
Defend all you like. Just know the form you're defending.
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Are we allowed to criticise now? Because when I raised earlier this season there were plenty on her very sensitive of any criticism.
He's got as many goals and assists this season as Olowu. Just not good enough.
Can we have examples of poor play from Ironside today please?
Running through treacle on the counter
Pulled out of a one on one with the keeper
Back to goal when the ball comes to him, can't get a shot on
Running out to the corner randomly in the first minute of the second half
And it was admittedly one of his better games.
If he’s gone in to that challenge with the goalie he’d have been at risk of getting sent off or seriously injuring himself and the goalkeeper.
If you want to judge a target man by the things that a target man isn’t judged on then crack on.
Can you give an example of when he should have been facing goal to take a shot today?
I think the issue is trying to play as a target man at 5ft 10 75kg you are going to come of worse than most proper centre backs just in a physical aspect. Don’t get me wrong he throws himself about but essentially as a number 9 you need to be contributing to goals/assists.
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He’s made a career as a target man so I don’t think you need to worry about that
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You need decent service to be a threat at CF, at the moment we aren't providing that. Last season we were getting to the byline and pulling crosses back for oncoming forwards particularly Joe
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As a goal threat Ironside has been absolutely useless this season.
It's not even like he's missing chances, he just isn't getting on the end of anything.
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Pretty irrelevant who played up front today when our back 5 play a game of pass on their own.
They were passing it between themselves because typically there was absolutely zero movement from our front 6.
That was a shocking performance. Great that we ground out 3 points but there's something very wrong still in the side.
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Emile Heskey only hit double figures 3 seasons in his career but played at a few major tournaments for England. It's not all about goals
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As a goal threat Ironside has been absolutely useless this season.
It's not even like he's missing chances, he just isn't getting on the end of anything.
There's nothing for him to get on the end of
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What's happened compared to last season?
I mean more goals would be nice, but he's also been far less effective at disrupting play up top and bringing the ball into play, which was his game.
Look st his heat map. How much of it is in the box. When he is in the box how good is our supply?
Any9ne watching can see it's not Ironside
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The service he is getting is pish poor. We have winger that would rather shoot from 25 yards out then cross it to him
Exactly this. He is only as good as the service he gets, he battled as well as he could today.
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As a goal threat Ironside has been absolutely useless this season.
It's not even like he's missing chances, he just isn't getting on the end of anything.
There's nothing for him to get on the end of
I agree that the service has been poor.
But the same can be said for Billy Sharp, yet he has 10 goals so far and has missed quite a few good chances.
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Was the delivery that great last season? (until the run).
Something else from his game has been lost.
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The big difference is Billy is an opportunist and is prepared to gamble in the box. How many headers does he win against a big CB, how many long punts does he control and hold up ? How many seasons has Joe had outside the bottom 2 divisions? You can hardly compare the 2
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What's happened compared to last season?
I mean more goals would be nice, but he's also been far less effective at disrupting play up top and bringing the ball into play, which was his game.
I was thinking the same today. Up to now I've been giving him the benefit of doubt, considering service, or lack of etc etc, but watching him more closely, I fear he's just going through the motions. Rarely, if at all, he's where we'd want him to be when crosses come in. We can debate the quality of crosses etc but there has been some decent ones but he's no where near getting into position to attack them, even at corners. His hold up play was ineffective, rarely getting control of the ball. His movements around the pitch are languid.
I watched that interview recently 'A coffee with...." when he talked about his family life and now how he's resumed his studies. He came across as being quite content with things and his talk about the actual football was about as exciting as his performances on the pitch at the mo. I just think he's lost his hunger, his fire, his mo Joe.
Have a listen and see what you think but he's just not the same player.
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Im a big fan of Molyneux but I can't stomach another performance such as what we are seeing from him. Its annoying because he has proven on his day he is the best playerin the league but, he is a shadow at the moment. The old LM would cut in and look to whip it in for a glancing header or to put his foot through it. Sooner or later he needs to have a breather out the team.
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Im a big fan of Molyneux but I can't stomach another performance such as what we are seeing from him. Its annoying because he has proven on his day he is the best playerin the league but, he is a shadow at the moment. The old LM would cut in and look to whip it in for a glancing header or to put his foot through it. Sooner or later he needs to have a breather out the team.
Agree with this, Moly due a break, no end product today of getting the ball into the box. Turned inside, ran down a dead end, passed backwards.
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When Hurst got hooked instead of Moly that was criminal
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When Hurst got hooked instead of Moly that was criminal
Absolutely dreadful decision. Moly has 1 goal and 1 assist in the last 13 games.
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Moly could do with a spell out of the side for me, but unfortunately it’s not as though we have replacements queuing up. He’s been poor for a good couple of months, I’m assuming he’s always kept on because he’s capable of a magic moment but he’s not really looked capable of producing anything in that time. Hurst looked far more lively today.
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When Hurst got hooked instead of Moly that was criminal
Absolutely dreadful decision. Moly has 1 goal and 1 assist in the last 13 games.
He gets doubled up on everytime he gets the ball, he’s struggled maybe the last few weeks but he’s still the most likely to make something happen. And has comfortably been our best player in 2024
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When Hurst got hooked instead of Moly that was criminal
Absolutely dreadful decision. Moly has 1 goal and 1 assist in the last 13 games.
To me Hurst should be playing the 10 role and we should look to get the ball into his feet early. It can be difficult out on the wings as you don't always tend to see as much of the ball. For all Cliftons energy and endeavour which you can't fault he doesn't do a great deal for me.
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Hurst is too lightweight, for me he's a great impact sub, doesn't seem to do as much starting.
Mols definitely could do with some competition in my opinion, I'm hoping one of the loans is to challenge him, might get him back to his best as he's dropped way off for quite a while now
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For me Hurst is a winger and I thought he was great yesterday.
All he had to do on that counter was put the ball in to the right area rather than worry about picking out a pass. But then again, that’s easy to say from the stands.
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Apart from the two centre backs & Bailey, Joe is certainly no lightweight unlike half a dozen others.
With the ball at his feet & two defenders trying to rip his shirt off his back he still holds that ball up until he can & does make a pass to a hooped shirt.
But no, let’s bring Dodoo back eh McCammon egg n chips.
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Some posts say Joe always got his back to goal and also reference the amount of passing at back.
This is the problem we are passing about at the back for too long, we then have a runner who take the ball to the half way line, who then turns around to pass backwards, by which time all opposition is behind the ball.
Is the any wonder Joe always has his back to goal?
This play is why, particularly in the first half a high % of play is in our half, very little in the final third, and thus a main reason why our criticism is vastly increasing.
Grant must change these tactics immediately, otherwise we will definitely not get automatic.
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Apart from the two centre backs & Bailey, Joe is certainly no lightweight unlike half a dozen others.
With the ball at his feet & two defenders trying to rip his shirt off his back he still holds that ball up until he can & does make a pass to a hooped shirt.
But no, let’s bring Dodoo back eh McCammon egg n chips.
Hahaha you're making my point for me. It's hilarious. Absolutely must not criticise Ironisde!
For the record, I absolutely don't want to see the like of Joe Dodoo near this team ever again.
By the way, did you miss the part where Ironside's strike record this season is worse than Dodoo's in that relegation season?
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Some posts say Joe always got his back to goal and also reference the amount of passing at back.
This is the problem we are passing about at the back for too long, we then have a runner who take the ball to the half way line, who then turns around to pass backwards, by which time all opposition is behind the ball.
Is the any wonder Joe always has his back to goal?
This play is why, particularly in the first half a high % of play is in our half, very little in the final third, and thus a main reason why our criticism is vastly increasing.
Grant must change these tactics immediately, otherwise we will definitely not get automatic.
Most centre forwards play the majority of time with their back to the oppositions goal.
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Apart from the two centre backs & Bailey, Joe is certainly no lightweight unlike half a dozen others.
With the ball at his feet & two defenders trying to rip his shirt off his back he still holds that ball up until he can & does make a pass to a hooped shirt.
But no, let’s bring Dodoo back eh McCammon egg n chips.
Hahaha you're making my point for me. It's hilarious. Absolutely must not criticise Ironisde!
For the record, I absolutely don't want to see the like of Joe Dodoo near this team ever again.
By the way, did you miss the part where Ironside's strike record this season is worse than Dodoo's in that relegation season?
No, that’s why I alluded to the point you were suggesting in your original post that because Ironside’s strike record was so poor (worse than Dodoo’s) it was time to ‘replace him’?
There’s a reason people might get ‘uppity’ about the likes of criticism thrown at him by dodo’s like you (see what I did there) it’s because he brings so much more to the team than brilliant goal stats.
You will never recognise or see that because you’re too busy looking at stats rather than the man.
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The biggest issue when Joe's up top on his own is he's very isolated, I thought against Walsall we went a lot more direct with long balls. I haven't an issue with this style but to do this you need to master picking up
2nd balls & need willing runners from midfield, breaking the line and getting in and around Joe which we haven't really got at present. Biggins wasn't bad at this last season. It does make you question what we practice on the training ground at times and as others have said the quality of our set pieces is poor also.
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Really feel for Joe, fed on scraps, he would benefit from a player similar to Fleetwoods Paterson, he does what it says on the tin for a winger, beats his man & crosses the ball.
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Something that gets easily overlooked is he's always fit and available and got through a hell of a lot of games for us last season alongside Bailey & Molly also
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He’s a good player at this level and we probably got more goals out of him last season than we should expect.
Reality is despite been well placed in the league the whole teams been a little underwhelming this season. And striker is the position that is easiest to scapegoat when others aren’t doing what they should.
He’d benefit from us playing a bit quicker to the wider areas and then us been decisive in actually putting a ball in. If we want to register 5 passes across the back before we try to go forward then whoever is up front won’t look great.
We seem low on confidence despite been so well placed. If we can get those confidence levels up all these performance questions will disappear
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Joe is top class for this level. He showed that last season.
He holds it up great, is strong, wins more than his fair share of headers, puts a real shift in, he's a very good finisher and he's calm under pressure (look at his penalty taking).
Let's not doubt his team contribution.
He needs runners beyond and around him.
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Wonderful player and clearly a top bloke too.
We are lucky to have him if you ask me.
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Wonderful player and clearly a top bloke too.
We are lucky to have him if you ask me.
Yes mush but, he’s got as many goals & assists as Olowu this season.
Just not good enough………..unless you like egg n chips, apparently.