Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: Spud on September 07, 2025, 09:41:54 am
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Lots of positive chat on here, quite rightly, after a great win again yesterday.
I've seen humble pie being eaten regarding Broadbent lately, & now Gibbo, anyone trusting Grant on Clifton yet?
Fantastic yesterday, & important to the way Grant wants us to play, maybe not the most eye catching & some are gonna come back with the couple of half chances he had, but I'll go with Grant's judgement.
Anyway, back to YouTube to go through Rob's list, up the Rovers.
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Nope. Just imagine how good we could be with 11 quality players out there. The sky is the limit.
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Gotts out injured and Crew on international duty. Didn’t struggle at all yesterday. Close was good in his limited spell.
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Clifton was superb yesterday. Time and again he won his little physical battles. Things like that often go unnoticed but it is absolutely crucial to the way we play.
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Sbarra and Westbrooke fit but didn’t make squad. Assume Nixon and Sterry must both have been injured to not even make squad. Gotts injured and both Crew and Grehan on international duty.
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Clifton was superb yesterday. Time and again he won his little physical battles. Things like that often go unnoticed but it is absolutely crucial to the way we play.
Absolutely. Four of us, before the game went for our preferred line up, and Clifton was in all four or our selections for those reasons. Plus, he keeps sneaking into those goalscoring positions too.
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Depends what you want. Run run run run Clifton is your man. Create chances keep the ball in tight spaces, then probably the last person in the league you'd pick. Thought he had one of his better games yesterday. I get why some don't like my criticism as he does give everything.
Personally Gibson is suited to the 10 position more. He knicks the ball and intercepts it more than any of the other front players.
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I thought he did really well, exactly what we needed yesterday against a big physical middle of the park - ran his socks off, harried and hurried, made good challenges and stopped us getting bullied. Thought Grant got that spot on, then when their legs went added the ball playing quality and pace to try and put them to bed. Can’t fault the lad for his effort and performance yesterday.
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From my angle from the South stand and by the route that the ball went, I was convinced that the Bradford defender knocked the ball from Clifton’s toes and we should have been awarded a corner.
Clifton will get more goals for us.
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Depends what you want. Run run run run Clifton is your man. Create chances keep the ball in tight spaces, then probably the last person in the league you'd pick. Thought he had one of his better games yesterday. I get why some don't like my criticism as he does give everything.
Personally Gibson is suited to the 10 position more. He knicks the ball and intercepts it more than any of the other front players.
He was excellent at coming out of tight spaces with the ball yesterday.
Much, much more than that, his relentless in-yer-face approach is exactly the thing that makes opportunities for the more gifted players.
He's not really the same as Ricky Raven hill, but his effect is similar. We had better technical players in that squad, but Ravenhill's work rate and aggression complemented them perfectly.
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Interesting to know much ground Clifton covers during a game because he never stops running even when he has not got the ball.
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Depends what you want. Run run run run Clifton is your man. Create chances keep the ball in tight spaces, then probably the last person in the league you'd pick. Thought he had one of his better games yesterday. I get why some don't like my criticism as he does give everything.
Personally Gibson is suited to the 10 position more. He knicks the ball and intercepts it more than any of the other front players.
He was excellent at coming out of tight spaces with the ball yesterday.
Much, much more than that, his relentless in-yer-face approach is exactly the thing that makes opportunities for the more gifted players.
He's not really the same as Ricky Raven hill, but his effect is similar. We had better technical players in that squad, but Ravenhill's work rate and aggression complemented them perfectly.
I was just about to post that I was thinking that Clifton is a better version of Ricky Ravenhill
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Depends what you want. Run run run run Clifton is your man. Create chances keep the ball in tight spaces, then probably the last person in the league you'd pick. Thought he had one of his better games yesterday. I get why some don't like my criticism as he does give everything.
Personally Gibson is suited to the 10 position more. He knicks the ball and intercepts it more than any of the other front players.
Unfortunately for Clifton he does have a footballing brain and you can see what he's trying to do when in possession but his body & speed of movement limits him with the ball at his feet.
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Clifton was great yesterday and epitomises what being a DRFC workacholic is all about and that is not a pejorative comment far from it .
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Clifton did nothing wrong at all yesterday.
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From my angle from the South stand and by the route that the ball went, I was convinced that the Bradford defender knocked the ball from Clifton’s toes and we should have been awarded a corner.
Clifton will get more goals for us.
This.. looked the same from the far north end of the east stand too..
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The whole is an amalgamation of its constituent parts. Clifton fits that role well for us as currently we don't have anyone else who completes that role to the same level, some parts but not all.
The most important thing is that GM believes in him, he can have no better endorsement.
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From my angle from the South stand and by the route that the ball went, I was convinced that the Bradford defender knocked the ball from Clifton’s toes and we should have been awarded a corner.
Clifton will get more goals for us.
This.. looked the same from the far north end of the east stand too..
I thought the same, West Stand.
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Every good team needs his type of player. When we were struggling under Schofield/McSheffery what we’d have given for 11 Clifton’s on the pitch! Were a bit spoilt at the moment.
That said I think our best 3 would have Gotts ahead of Clifton but it’s his shirt. Bradford suited Clifton because they came to play. Against a team who just want to sit back and hit us on the break maybe he struggles a bit more and a Close type would look better. But he’s never let us down imo
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Mentioned on another thread he played really well. Glad he’s got his own more positive thread. Let Grant and the coaching team do their work. They’ve got the best out of many players including some loans too, now, what ever happened to Adelukan, Craig etc? Same with Sbarra and Westbrooke, they will be needed and will contribute. We don’t need to be losing any players from our squad.
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Every good team needs his type of player. When we were struggling under Schofield/McSheffery what we’d have given for 11 Clifton’s on the pitch! Were a bit spoilt at the moment.
That said I think our best 3 would have Gotts ahead of Clifton but it’s his shirt. Bradford suited Clifton because they came to play. Against a team who just want to sit back and hit us on the break maybe he struggles a bit more and a Close type would look better. But he’s never let us down imo
Well Sedwards, we have got all three of those players available and I feel sure that Grant knows which ones he will pick to start certain games, and then which ones to bring on when the time is right.
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His work rate off the ball is awesome and often goes unnoticed. Also will chip in with goals as the season goes on.
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Every good team needs his type of player. When we were struggling under Schofield/McSheffery what we’d have given for 11 Clifton’s on the pitch! Were a bit spoilt at the moment.
That said I think our best 3 would have Gotts ahead of Clifton but it’s his shirt. Bradford suited Clifton because they came to play. Against a team who just want to sit back and hit us on the break maybe he struggles a bit more and a Close type would look better. But he’s never let us down imo
Gotts was recovering from injury so therefore Grant chose Clifton
But although Gotts will get back in the side judgement on whether he will be the best only come with consistent games which at the moment he’s not had.
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Clifton did nothing wrong at all yesterday.
He is underrated, brakes up play and chips in with the odd goals Deschamps did this very well for France and was also under rated
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Excellent yesterday. He’s with us for a reason.
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Nope. Just imagine how good we could be with 11 quality players out there. The sky is the limit.
Its reminiscent of O’Driscoll days when we played teams off the park and with a little fat guy up front !!
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Just seen Yorkshire Posts player ratings which support ours.
Clifton: An intelligent, workaholic performance. Under-rated player, not by his manager. 8
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Out injured for six weeks now.
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Hamstring tear, so not ideal. But, a chance for someone in the squad.
Gotts trained all week. Close and Westbrooke both ok. Then there’s also Charlie Crew. Plenty of choice.
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Hamstring tear, so not ideal. But, a chance for someone in the squad.
Gotts trained all week. Close and Westbrooke both ok. Then there’s also Charlie Crew. Plenty of choice.
Close for me as he deserves a crack.
Or keep him for spurs and give Gotts a run
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This game maybe too early for Gotts so i would expect it to be between Close and Crew. Would a big physical and niggly side be better for Close or would we throw Crew in instead?
This game could be the final rehabilitation of a player like Close, i'd go for it!
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Id be tempted to play Olusanya there, a bit of pace behnd Billy because if he gets into the spaces Clifton does he will score a few.
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Id be tempted to play Olusanya there, a bit of pace behnd Billy because if he gets into the spaces Clifton does he will score a few.
We generally play with a noosing player and two No8’s although people tend to think we play with Clifton (or another) as a 10. Sometimes we do setup like that but I’m sure it will be two “8’s” on Saturday. Olusanya doesn’t fit into that midfield. Gotts has looked great when he’s played. It will be him.
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We’ve got Sbarra too still think he’s underrated
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Bailey can do a job there too..
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We’ve got Sbarra too still think he’s underrated
Please no
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Sbarra shouldn’t be in the conversation for me. Close or Crew should play IMO and happy to have Bailey in the 10. Or Ajayi - still no league start. Does he deserve a shot? Gotts I guess it would depend on fitness.
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Definitely not Ajayi, for me he’s not really shown he deserves a start over the likes of close crew or Olusanya.
He’s been a real disappointment so far.
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On performances Close is the one that deserves it. 2 very very good technical players to pick from with Crew the other option and I always believe one of them should play as that is not Bailey or Broadbents role. No dig they are decent at what they're in the team to do.
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On performances Close is the one that deserves it. 2 very very good technical players to pick from with Crew the other option and I always believe one of them should play as that is not Bailey or Broadbents role. No dig they are decent at what they're in the team to do.
We play best with one 6 and two 8’s. Crew, Broadbent, and Close bare all 6’s. Can’t play together.
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People knock him but we missed him today
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He played against them a few months ago and he was poor in another all round poor performance. He wasn’t the reason we lost.
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Think Gotts from the start would have been better in hindsight. His set piece delivery is miles ahead of Mols and Gibson.
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Think Gotts from the start would have been better in hindsight. His set piece delivery is miles ahead of Mols and Gibson.
Crew was a weird choice. We never once looked like we were set up to try to get him into space in the middle of the park to receive the ball.
He looked like a lost kid for most of the match. How many times did he touch the ball in the whole match? 4? 5?
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McCann seems to like to play a high intensity, hard working player in the advanced midfield role. Clifton, Sbarra or Gotts.
These players get some stick for not being Coppingeresque creative players in that position.
But that's not their role - it's to close down the opposition high up the park and force them into mistakes; increase the intensity of our midfield; and to provide a link to the forward players.
We really missed having that sort of player in the starting XI today I feel.
Our midfielders were too deep; there weren't enough forward passing options when we had the ball; we ended up forced to play long balls far too often which doesn't suit our forward players; Wimbledon played out from the back more easily than our opponents normally do.
I know he's not flavour of the month amongst supporters but, assuming Gotts wasn't fit enough to start, Sbarra should have played today ahead of Crew IMO.
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Think Gotts from the start would have been better in hindsight. His set piece delivery is miles ahead of Mols and Gibson.
Crew was a weird choice. We never once looked like we were set up to try to get him into space in the middle of the park to receive the ball.
He looked like a lost kid for most of the match. How many times did he touch the ball in the whole match? 4? 5?
He wants to do Broadbent job. It has to be one or the other.
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It's not a coincidence that the past match and 2/3rds since Clifton got injured have been probably our worst performances of the season. Coming immediately after our best, when he was excellent at harrying and upsetting Bradford.
He's very reminiscent in many ways of Ravenhill in Penney's side. Does the hard unglamorous work so the more talented players have space.
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It's not a coincidence that the past match and 2/3rds since Clifton got injured have been probably our worst performances of the season. Coming immediately after our best, when he was excellent at harrying and upsetting Bradford.
He's very reminiscent in many ways of Ravenhill in Penney's side. Does the hard unglamorous work so the more talented players have space.
We were 2-0 down when he got injured!
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It's not a coincidence that the past match and 2/3rds since Clifton got injured have been probably our worst performances of the season. Coming immediately after our best, when he was excellent at harrying and upsetting Bradford.
He's very reminiscent in many ways of Ravenhill in Penney's side. Does the hard unglamorous work so the more talented players have space.
We were 2-0 down when he got injured!
We were. Courtesy of two very poor pieces of defending/goalkeeping.
But the issue is, it's not all about goals, as I'd have thought you of all people would have appreciated. We hadn't actually played too badly up to the point that we fell apart at the back. We gave as good as we got early on and should probably have had a penalty before Wigan scored.
For the league match and two thirds since Clifton got injured, we have struggled badly to impose ourselves on the opposition for any spell. And I don't think that is a coincidence.
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Four and 2/3rds matches without Clifton.
GF 2
GA 7
It's not a coincidence.
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We are really missing him
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Correlation does imply causation.
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Correlation does imply causation.
It doesn't.
But as correlation mounts up, it's obtuse to ignore it.
Especially when he was head and shoulders our best player in our last win. And we've looked a pale shadow of that team since.
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I’ll just add to that - we should also temper that thought with the fact that Gotts seems to have disappeared since his injury! He may have made the deficit up from Clifton’s absence, if he’d replaced him in the side?
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Haven’t seen confirmation but think Gotts must be injured again. Was replaced at half time at Luton
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Haven’t seen confirmation but think Gotts must be injured again. Was replaced at half time at Luton
If so its a shame. He is the Clifton upgrade.
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And still the correlation mounts up
Five and 2/3rds matches without Clifton.
GF 2
GA 11
Five and 1/3 matches with Clifton.
GF 9
GA 5
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If only Clifton had stopped O'Riordan from slipping and taking that awful touch. If only Clifton had been behind McGrath when he kicked thin air instead of the ball.
Signs have been there all season. 30 good minutes v Bradford, Rotherham and Burton. Other than that...
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If only Clifton had stopped O'Riordan from slipping and taking that awful touch. If only Clifton had been behind McGrath when he kicked thin air instead of the ball.
Signs have been there all season. 30 good minutes v Bradford, Rotherham and Burton. Other than that...
It's about what Clifton brings to the team in terms of harrying the opposition and putting them under pressure.
Individuals are always going to make mistakes. The point is, they maker fewer mistakes if we have players who help us to put the opposition under physical pressure more than they do to us. That is what Clifton brings to the squad and the lack of it over the past month has been wince-inducing to watch.
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If only Clifton had stopped O'Riordan from slipping and taking that awful touch. If only Clifton had been behind McGrath when he kicked thin air instead of the ball.
Signs have been there all season. 30 good minutes v Bradford, Rotherham and Burton. Other than that...
It's about what Clifton brings to the team in terms of harrying the opposition and putting them under pressure.
Individuals are always going to make mistakes. The point is, they maker fewer mistakes if we have players who help us to put the opposition under physical pressure more than they do to us. That is what Clifton brings to the squad and the lack of it over the past month has been wince-inducing to watch.
Clifton AND Sterry too IMO.
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If only Clifton had stopped O'Riordan from slipping and taking that awful touch. If only Clifton had been behind McGrath when he kicked thin air instead of the ball.
Signs have been there all season. 30 good minutes v Bradford, Rotherham and Burton. Other than that...
It's about what Clifton brings to the team in terms of harrying the opposition and putting them under pressure.
Individuals are always going to make mistakes. The point is, they maker fewer mistakes if we have players who help us to put the opposition under physical pressure more than they do to us. That is what Clifton brings to the squad and the lack of it over the past month has been wince-inducing to watch.
It is surprising how you don't know what you've got till it's gone to quote Joni Mitchell. It may be coincidence that this downturn has come as we lost Harry Clifton, a member of the squad that many have derided and underestimated. He does a vital job when he plays.
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I doubt you can find a game in recent years with so many rank amateur individual defensive errors.
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In recent years? How far you going back?
Even last season we had some games where we performed very poorly defensively
Folk have short memories when it suits
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In recent years? How far you going back?
Even last season we had some games where we performed very poorly defensively
Folk have short memories when it suits
"We were shite last season as well" isn't really the response you probably thought it was.
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Correlation and causation and all that.
But
League matches when Clifton has started
P6 W5 D0 L1 F8 A5 Pts15 PPG2.5
League matches when Clifton has not started
P7 W0 D2 L5 F4 A13 Pts2 PPG0.28
At some point, causation becomes unarguable.
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I think the performance drop off started at the Port Vale game. We were good against Bradford but in the other games since it’s been pretty poor.
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I think the performance drop off started at the Port Vale game. We were good against Bradford but in the other games since it’s been pretty poor.
Ah yes the same performance drop off where we won the next 4 games in a row....
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I think the performance drop off started at the Port Vale game. We were good against Bradford but in the other games since it’s been pretty poor.
Ah yes the same performance drop off where we won the next 4 games in a row....
Do you watch football? Do good/bad performances always bring about wins/losses? Did you go to Vale? We were horrific and won.
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Clifton may or may not be additive to the team, but him being absent is absolutely not the determining factor in why our press, general energy and attacking threat has collapsed in his absence. We look and play like we are terrified of our own shadow.
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CBCB
I've said before he is absolutely vital to how we play. His energy and aggression both produces space for the technically better players, and often tidies up their mistakes. At the moment, when we lose the ball, there is nothing to stop the opposition hitting us. Which inevitably makes us less inclined to take chances. But our entire game is based on us taking gambles.
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I think we’re also missing Broadbent and Sterry, Billy. I totally agree about Clifton being a very important cog in the wheel, but Sterry hasn’t even got going and I think it’s part of the reason why Molyneux has started so poorly. Broadbent was really getting to grips with his role and he had that stabilising influence in our defensive game.
One of the biggest disappointments, though, has been some of our summer recruiting. It’s been nothing short of abysmal.
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I think the performance drop off started at the Port Vale game. We were good against Bradford but in the other games since it’s been pretty poor.
That's an interesting take.
The two league games after the PV match were a reasonably competent and confident victory against one of our nearest local rivals, then by some way the best performance of the season against Bradford.
It was the Wigan game and onwards where the wheels came off.
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I think we’re also missing Broadbent and Sterry, Billy. I totally agree about Clifton being a very important cog in the wheel, but Sterry hasn’t even got going and I think it’s part of the reason why Molyneux has started so poorly. Broadbent was really getting to grips with his role and he had that stabilising influence in our defensive game.
One of the biggest disappointments, though, has been some of our summer recruiting. It’s been nothing short of abysmal.
All good points Alan, I’m with you on all of them.
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The real thing is we need a couple of real sh*t houses down the middle at the back who can play a bit as well and are mobile, and add a proper footballing defensive mid fielder who can play a bit and release Bailey a bit of class in mid field.
That's assuming O'Riordon goes back at Christmas as I rate him and would save us one of the places Faulkner and Flint the others.
Get out of this idea of iffy youngsters from other clubs coming to a finishing school unless they are better than what we have.
I have said before and stick with it, the worst decisions were made before a ball was kicked in anger, other clubs knew and came in for two of our best defenders.
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I agree with Gazlaz on the Port Vale game. I’ve mentioned a few times about us looking leggy, lacking fitness, or just struggling with the pace of this league.
Interesting that Darren Moore used those very words in his assessment of us after the vale game too.
I’m not sure Pearson is fit, or he is playing whilst carrying a knock. He is by far the best option we have but either misses games or is brought off.
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I know this is the Clifton thread but I can’t help thinking about how much ground Olowu used to cover and how many errors, misplaced passes and stray attackers trying to get into space he used to deal with.
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monkeytennis, he covered a lot up in the first half of the season that's for sure.
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We miss Olowu. He's better than all we have now and is proving it at Stockport.
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We miss Olowu. He's better than all we have now and is proving it at Stockport.
TBF, I wouldn't say that Joe has 'proved' anything. He has played 14 times - starting 11 games - including 3 Football League or Cup games. He has been subbed off 3 times in those 11 games, and has come on as a sub 3 times....
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The fact is for six months he kept our head above water last season, and by consensus was our stand out player in most supporters opinions, and since his injury that curtailed his season about the start of February and until we partnered Anderson and Bailey we went through a mini losing run against Grimsby and Chesterfield after which circumstances forced us luckily to form that partnership.
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Think once Clifton is fit it’s time to put Bailey in at Centre Back and shore up the defence McGrath has lost all confidence, O’Riordan seems to still be struggling, Pearson likewise
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Think once Clifton is fit it’s time to put Bailey in at Centre Back and shore up the defence McGrath has lost all confidence, O’Riordan seems to still be struggling, Pearson likewise
O'Riordan, Pearson and Grehan are solid enough but they have been getting little protection from those in front of them lately.
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CBCB
I've said before he is absolutely vital to how we play. His energy and aggression both produces space for the technically better players, and often tidies up their mistakes. At the moment, when we lose the ball, there is nothing to stop the opposition hitting us. Which inevitably makes us less inclined to take chances. But our entire game is based on us taking gambles.
Recoveries/90 (% in opposition half) League 1, 2025/6 (WyScout)
1. C.Crew - 13.47 (41.5%)
2. B.Close - 11.09 (50%)
3. G.Broadbent - 9.83 (47.3%)
4. O.Bailey - 9.79 (40.7%)
5. R.Gotts - 7.17 (54.5%)
6. H.Clifton - 5.93 (41.4%)
7. J.Sbarra - 2.28 (60%)
Recovery Definition: Any Action that ends a Possession of the opposition team (the last action of this possession is a Loss) and starts a Possession for current team.
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Interesting. Our amateur supporter eyes don’t always see the full picture. Which is why I’m happy to leave it to the manager.
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On the Bradford game, in terms of our possession in League 1 matches, the Bradford game (37.58%) is a big outlier, and is two standard deviations below our average (55.17%). That game would be the one where Clifton stands out as he is very much the “grafter” type of player.
I agree that one of our attacking approaches is to press and set up traps out of possession, so that we can pounce on any mistakes and attack against a disrupted defence.
For 30 minutes in the Huddersfield game* we executed that brilliantly. The pivotal point in that game occurred in the 32nd minute (see image), we’d created 9 shots before that, but we only created 3 more afterwards. From that point, Huddersfield took all the risk out of their passing and went longer and wider therefore negating the traps we’d set, and ultimately ground out a win.
Watching the Wigan game back at double speed you could see similar, they pushed their wing backs high and went long and wide. As as been said elsewhere, we’re also now facing teams setting up 2v1 or 3v2 against our wide players.
So rather than one player being a crucial factor in our form dropping off, is it not the oppositions (excluding Bradford) have sussed out our two major (only?) attacking threats, and we’ve yet to find the solution to it?
Not a new theme as we struggled in games last season when the opposition let us have the ball, but then we managed to grind out results against lesser players.
* Clifton unavailable for that game
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On the Bradford game, in terms of our possession in League 1 matches, the Bradford game (37.58%) is a big outlier, and is two standard deviations below our average (55.17%). That game would be the one where Clifton stands out as he is very much the “grafter” type of player.
I agree that one of our attacking approaches is to press and set up traps out of possession, so that we can pounce on any mistakes and attack against a disrupted defence.
For 30 minutes in the Huddersfield game* we executed that brilliantly. The pivotal point in that game occurred in the 32nd minute (see image), we’d created 9 shots before that, but we only created 3 more afterwards. From that point, Huddersfield took all the risk out of their passing and went longer and wider therefore negating the traps we’d set, and ultimately ground out a win.
Watching the Wigan game back at double speed you could see similar, they pushed their wing backs high and went long and wide. As as been said elsewhere, we’re also now facing teams setting up 2v1 or 3v2 against our wide players.
So rather than one player being a crucial factor in our form dropping off, is it not the oppositions (excluding Bradford) have sussed out our two major (only?) attacking threats, and we’ve yet to find the solution to it?
Not a new theme as we struggled in games last season when the opposition let us have the ball, but then we managed to grind out results against lesser players.
* Clifton unavailable for that game
What a refreshing analysis, along with an actual video to underpin your reasoning. Well done & more of the same would not only be welcomed by me, but is easy to comprehend compared to statistics that are based on xg’s, playing with two 8’s etc.
Not that I don’t understand them, just that they’re so……passé.
You on the other hand have taken the time to explain your views with eloquent narrative, which is a refreshing change.
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On the Bradford game, in terms of our possession in League 1 matches, the Bradford game (37.58%) is a big outlier, and is two standard deviations below our average (55.17%). That game would be the one where Clifton stands out as he is very much the “grafter” type of player.
I agree that one of our attacking approaches is to press and set up traps out of possession, so that we can pounce on any mistakes and attack against a disrupted defence.
For 30 minutes in the Huddersfield game* we executed that brilliantly. The pivotal point in that game occurred in the 32nd minute (see image), we’d created 9 shots before that, but we only created 3 more afterwards. From that point, Huddersfield took all the risk out of their passing and went longer and wider therefore negating the traps we’d set, and ultimately ground out a win.
Watching the Wigan game back at double speed you could see similar, they pushed their wing backs high and went long and wide. As as been said elsewhere, we’re also now facing teams setting up 2v1 or 3v2 against our wide players.
So rather than one player being a crucial factor in our form dropping off, is it not the oppositions (excluding Bradford) have sussed out our two major (only?) attacking threats, and we’ve yet to find the solution to it?
Not a new theme as we struggled in games last season when the opposition let us have the ball, but then we managed to grind out results against lesser players.
* Clifton unavailable for that game
In reference to the Huddersfield game, you are essentially saying Grant was out coached in game.
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On the Bradford game, in terms of our possession in League 1 matches, the Bradford game (37.58%) is a big outlier, and is two standard deviations below our average (55.17%). That game would be the one where Clifton stands out as he is very much the “grafter” type of player.
I agree that one of our attacking approaches is to press and set up traps out of possession, so that we can pounce on any mistakes and attack against a disrupted defence.
For 30 minutes in the Huddersfield game* we executed that brilliantly. The pivotal point in that game occurred in the 32nd minute (see image), we’d created 9 shots before that, but we only created 3 more afterwards. From that point, Huddersfield took all the risk out of their passing and went longer and wider therefore negating the traps we’d set, and ultimately ground out a win.
Watching the Wigan game back at double speed you could see similar, they pushed their wing backs high and went long and wide. As as been said elsewhere, we’re also now facing teams setting up 2v1 or 3v2 against our wide players.
So rather than one player being a crucial factor in our form dropping off, is it not the oppositions (excluding Bradford) have sussed out our two major (only?) attacking threats, and we’ve yet to find the solution to it?
Not a new theme as we struggled in games last season when the opposition let us have the ball, but then we managed to grind out results against lesser players.
* Clifton unavailable for that game
In reference to the Huddersfield game, you are essentially saying Grant was out coached in game.
Well it’s pretty obvious that this is precisely what’s happening every week. We keep trying the same tactics over and over again even though we’re making no progress and it’s feeling like nobody other than the spectators are seeing it.
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Against Huddersfield we were short of one thing - a big strong lad who could finish off all the good work done in the first half! They (Huddersfield) could and should have been dead and buried by half time.
They could lack of a decent striker is coming back to bite us on the ass - every week. Our recruitment in this area, particularly, has been shocking.
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On the Bradford game, in terms of our possession in League 1 matches, the Bradford game (37.58%) is a big outlier, and is two standard deviations below our average (55.17%). That game would be the one where Clifton stands out as he is very much the “grafter” type of player.
I agree that one of our attacking approaches is to press and set up traps out of possession, so that we can pounce on any mistakes and attack against a disrupted defence.
For 30 minutes in the Huddersfield game* we executed that brilliantly. The pivotal point in that game occurred in the 32nd minute (see image), we’d created 9 shots before that, but we only created 3 more afterwards. From that point, Huddersfield took all the risk out of their passing and went longer and wider therefore negating the traps we’d set, and ultimately ground out a win.
Watching the Wigan game back at double speed you could see similar, they pushed their wing backs high and went long and wide. As as been said elsewhere, we’re also now facing teams setting up 2v1 or 3v2 against our wide players.
So rather than one player being a crucial factor in our form dropping off, is it not the oppositions (excluding Bradford) have sussed out our two major (only?) attacking threats, and we’ve yet to find the solution to it?
Not a new theme as we struggled in games last season when the opposition let us have the ball, but then we managed to grind out results against lesser players.
* Clifton unavailable for that game
In reference to the Huddersfield game, you are essentially saying Grant was out coached in game.
Didn’t intend it to come across as strong as that , we were good that game. Grant was out coaching Grant for 30 mins, more even after that. Combination of their stronger squad/couple of concentration lapses did for us
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I don't want to keep harping on about this (OK! I do really) but here's the latest with and without Clifton update.
With
P13 W8 D2 L3
Without
P9 W1 D2 L6
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It’s no coincidence that we tend to lose momentum when he goes off and Gotts comes on
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It’s no coincidence that we tend to lose momentum when he goes off and Gotts comes on
Gotts is Sbarra 1.1
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It’s no coincidence that we tend to lose momentum when he goes off and Gotts comes on
Gotts is Sbarra 1.1
Sadly I agree, and I don’t like pulling our players down!
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I don't want to keep harping on about this (OK! I do really) but here's the latest with and without Clifton update.
With
P13 W8 D2 L3
Without
P9 W1 D2 L6
Just posted on another thread, Hanlan another who must be similar?
McCann seems to have found his strongest team though that's for sure.
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I don't want to keep harping on about this (OK! I do really) but here's the latest with and without Clifton update.
With
P13 W8 D2 L3
Without
P9 W1 D2 L6
Just posted on another thread, Hanlan another who must be similar?
McCann seems to have found his strongest team though that's for sure.
Also he's stopped making so many changes every match. Not sure how he expected players to reach good form by chopping and changing every match.
Play well, keep the shirt and its yours to lose.
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It’s no coincidence that we tend to lose momentum when he goes off and Gotts comes on
Gotts is Sbarra 1.1
Not a chance. Gotts miles better on the ball.
If you could blend Clifton and Gotts best attributes together you'd have a great number 10
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I can understand what BST sees in him and I think the positions he takes up allows others to play but his output is atrocious. He doesn’t win the ball back very often, doesn’t pass to his mastery often or create very often. His biggest strength is arriving in the box and getting on the end of things. Zero league goals though. If we can’t find a player better than him in that position we are in trouble. I don’t think we want a Matt Le Tissier in that position but someone with his energy that wins it back more and can pass better into much to ask.
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It’s no coincidence that we tend to lose momentum when he goes off and Gotts comes on
Gotts is Sbarra 1.1
Not a chance. Gotts miles better on the ball.
If you could blend Clifton and Gotts best attributes together you'd have a great number 10
Better but not by miles
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It’s no coincidence that we tend to lose momentum when he goes off and Gotts comes on
Gotts is Sbarra 1.1
Not a chance. Gotts miles better on the ball.
If you could blend Clifton and Gotts best attributes together you'd have a great number 10
Better but not by miles
He’s started 3 league games and not had a run so hard to judge him properly but another player that come in and in instantly improved that “front 6”.
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I don't want to keep harping on about this (OK! I do really) but here's the latest with and without Clifton update.
With
P13 W8 D2 L3
Without
P9 W1 D2 L6
Good post, BST, and I totally agree with the sentiment. However, it wouldn't be me without some pedantry.
I'm assuming you mean all games in all comps so far this season. It's 25, so you're 3 games short.
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I also rate Clifton highly and imo he does make a big difference to how we perform.
He does get into great positions in the box when we are attacking but his finishing needs some serious work.
If he starts to put the ball in the net on a fairly regular basis he will become a massive asset.
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I don't want to keep harping on about this (OK! I do really) but here's the latest with and without Clifton update.
With
P13 W8 D2 L3
Without
P9 W1 D2 L6
What were the stats for last year? He feels more important to us this year, maybe due to the pace and physicality from the step up.
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If you put both players Close and Clifton side by side and analyse who is the better footballer; people will probably rightly choose Close, his vision, range of passing etc. But in terms of effectiveness it’s Clifton & in terms of the energy he brings to the team he’s a better McCann type player.
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I don't want to keep harping on about this (OK! I do really) but here's the latest with and without Clifton update.
With
P13 W8 D2 L3
Without
P9 W1 D2 L6
Just posted on another thread, Hanlan another who must be similar?
McCann seems to have found his strongest team though that's for sure.
Also he's stopped making so many changes every match. Not sure how he expected players to reach good form by chopping and changing every match.
Play well, keep the shirt and its yours to lose.
He did this last season . Mucked about with the team week in week out like we were prime Man Cuty with a squad of amazing depth. Settled on an eleven from January onwards.
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I don't want to keep harping on about this (OK! I do really) but here's the latest with and without Clifton update.
With
P13 W8 D2 L3
Without
P9 W1 D2 L6
Good post, BST, and I totally agree with the sentiment. However, it wouldn't be me without some pedantry.
I'm assuming you mean all games in all comps so far this season. It's 25, so you're 3 games short.
Maybe not including Vertu Trophy where team selection is not normally the strongest team?
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I honestly don't really rate Clifton as a player but it's got to a point where you just cannot argue with the stats. As long as we keep winning just keep playing him. It's a strange one because he's a 10 and as Gaz says there's just no output but hey ho. What's working is working.
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Clifton’s workrate is second to none for the team. We haven’t got a better player at the club to do that position. Close is better technically but to slow both going forward and defensively.
We do need a player to play the ten but he’s needs the workrate of Clifton and the pace fitness and technique. To get said player will cost and I don’t think we have the funds to do it .
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I think you have hit the nail on the head Steve, the player you describe is likely to come at a high financial cost.
Any club willing to part with such a player will likely demand a huge transfer fee, which is not the current strategy of our club at present, and the player is likely to be demanding a salary at the top end for our current L1.
Whilst people are currently suggesting our goalkeeper, defence and midfield are in need of strengthening with the highest quality of (expensive) players, I think we all know that our real problem is the lack of a quality striker. We all know Billy can do a job for us but reality is he can’t play 90 mins starting every game.
I also believe that our problem was evident a lot earlier than a lot of people were willing to accept, I and a few others were expressing concerns regarding our striking force and lack of scoring, but responses were generally there is no issue look at our current position at the time these concerns were raised.
Just look back towards the Huddersfield game, where we were unable to take our chances before they scored.
Clifton is capable of doing a job at this level, we need to concentrate on a main striker who can lead the line, once we sort this I honestly believe a few players will play with more confidence and play to their best abilities.
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I can understand what BST sees in him and I think the positions he takes up allows others to play but his output is atrocious. He doesn’t win the ball back very often, doesn’t pass to his mastery often or create very often. His biggest strength is arriving in the box and getting on the end of things. Zero league goals though. If we can’t find a player better than him in that position we are in trouble. I don’t think we want a Matt Le Tissier in that position but someone with his energy that wins it back more and can pass better into much to ask.
Gaz.
I can't compete with your knowledge of the data, but if I may suggest, I think you are missing a big point here.
It's not whether he personally wins the ball or what he does with it.
It's his energy that transforms the entire side. He harries and pressurises opponents and unsettles them into mistakes. I'm not sure there's a metric for that but as a great man once said, "Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted".
The difference with and without him in the side is blindingly obvious watching the matches, regardless of what his individual stats are.
Yes I'm sure there are better players available. But we haven't got one in our squad who comes remotely close to being able to do what he brings to the team.
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I don't want to keep harping on about this (OK! I do really) but here's the latest with and without Clifton update.
With
P13 W8 D2 L3
Without
P9 W1 D2 L6
Good post, BST, and I totally agree with the sentiment. However, it wouldn't be me without some pedantry.
I'm assuming you mean all games in all comps so far this season. It's 25, so you're 3 games short.
I'm not including the FLT matches because in my opinion, they are a long way off being genuine 1st team games. Certainly in the group stages.