Donny North MP for PM!

[hoolahoop]

Top post Billy and that's more like I was looking for from you.
Funnily enough I see things or the scenarios described in a similar manner to you and they surely should have seen this as the most desirable end-game.
In terms of their own political principles, this should have suited them far more than 'hooking' up with a traditional enemy. Did they perhaps ask too much from the Labour Party , perhaps AV was never a 'given' and as for asking for the head of GB would the LP ever given them the satisfaction of ever allowing that precondition to be thrust upon them....I wonder. How ever much that was the intended decision of the LP to ask him to stand down would they ever allow the L/dems to inflict it upon them ?
I would have loved to have been 'a fly on the wall' throughout all of these discussions and I'm sure you would have enjoyed the same with your political nounce.
Soon we will hear more of the REAL story of what exactly every party required or were prepared to concede over the next 18 months or so as this unravels further and the so-called honeymoon period ends.
Undoubtedly there were some very bright L/Dems involved in those negotiations and I find it very difficult to believe that they wouldn't have taken the easier path had that of been viable. Perhaps the LP or the 'hidden agendas' of the cabinet shut this door firmly shut in their faces forcing them to consider the worst (in their eyes) of the 2 evils. Without the full facts of the stances of each of the 3 parties at the various negotiations, I think you have presumed far too much about the abandonment of L/Dem 'principles' at this early stage.
Oh that all political parties walked into office and carried out exactly or even half the full manifestos that they originally put to the people eh.
Perhaps you are being far too premature in your perceptions given only the short time that this Coalition has held the reins or indeed you may well be prescient.
Whichever it is , I personally believe the pressure will be mounted onto the L/Dem Party to exercise more caution when agreeing to throw their hat in completely with the Tories and thsat will come about by 'rank and file' dissention as the polls reflect a huge loss in vote share for them.

[BillyStubbsTears]

I appreciate what you are saying about the difficulty in putting intentions into practice. That is the hope I have for us being spared the madness of the speed of cuts that this lot is proposing.

I'm frankly astonished that the political debate hasn't focussed on this. The coalition is proposing to cut public spending much faster than even Thatcher's government did. That was a Government with a comfortable majority and a powerful, ideologically driven prime minister. Even THEY didn't find that easy. Thatcher proceeded very cautiously, wooing, then discarding the centrist Tories and it wasn't until 2 years into their administration that the full carnage was unleashed, in Geoffrey Howe's 1981 budget that overturned the Keynesian concensus and slashed public spending at the depth of a recession. Any one of us over 40 knows what the result was - the UK economy fell off a cliff and the pain was especially doled out on us in the industrial North. It took us a generation to recover.

Thatcher got away with it because she had a Government that was behind her, a strong Parliamentary majority and a feeble Opposition. Even then, she'd have lost in 1983 without the Falklands War.

This Government have NONE of those advantages, yet they are proposing to cut even faster and deeper than Thatcher did. It defies all political logic. I will be astonished if they get remotely close to the scale of cutbacks that they are proposing. The cracks are already showing with that leaked letter from Liam Fox, who is one of the most right-wing members of the Cabinet. If he is pretty much refusing to implement the proposed cuts at the MoD, the dam is already breaking.

The problem for the Lib-Dems of course is that they have already lost credibility by flipping their economic plicy once to justify getting into bed with the Tories. If they flip it again and start asking for a more measured approach when the cuts really start to bite and the full depth of the public fury is unleashed on them, they are politically dead - they'd be a total laughing stock.

The Lib-Dems' worst nightmare has been visited upon them. They have patiently spent a generation trying to build up support as an anti-party, with vacuous, wishy-washy non-policies. Now they are exposed to the full glare of scrutiny and they have been found desperately wanting. Unprincipled, blowing in the wind and irrelevant. If Labour and the Tories play it right from here on in, the Lib-Dems are finished. they will be squeezed from both sides as people realise that a vote for the Lib-Dems is a non-vote. You are going to end up with either a Labour-dominated or a Tory-dominated Government - if you are a recent Lib-Dem voter who sways one way or the other, why on earth take the risk of voting for them and finding out that they'll end up supporting the opposite side anyway? You might as well grit your teeth and vote either Labour or Tory - at least that way you'll know what you are actually voting for.

Look at the polls. Since the Election, the Tories have gone up slightly, Labour has gone up by about 1/3rd and ther Liberals have collapsed. THAT is what I'm saying. Within weeks, people have cottoned on to the irrelevance that the Lib-Dems are and voters (in particular left-leaning Lib-Dem voters) are reverting to type, realising that they have to make a choice.

The Lib-Dems will take half a century to recover from this. If they ever do. Because, if this Election has done anything, it's raised the question that the Lib-Dems have skillfully avoided for 30 years: What is the purpose of the Lib-Dems?

[belton rover]

Hey Billy, I think I've just worked out what this is all about!


Are you Mr Frost's older brother?

[Barmby Rover]

What the current situation shows is what I have thought about the Liberals for a long time, nice enough people but in the end they believe in nothing except to try to keep things pleasant for the middle class hopefuls they tend to be. They have got into bed with the Tories I suspect because they offered the best deal for the party leadership, nothing to do with there being \"no alternative\" to the Tories, that was a suitable and unfortunately transparent fig leaf.  
The cuts being proposed are not simply severe but suicidal for our economy, but the dogma of letting the market decide will let the Tories do anything to destroy collective and societal nicities and allow the greedy to take over to make a profit, whether that be in privatising the Jobcentre, or selling off large chunks of the NHS, \"if you want help, buy it\" is going to be the rule after this has happened, and if you are not rich enough well that is your fault and your problem. As Ireland are now finding out, when you suddenly destroy all public spending the private sector are not on hand to pick up the pieces. the economy disappears down the pan because you have a lot of people deprived of money and surprise surprise they stop spending.This has the effect of tipping an economy into recession or even depression.
The economy has started to recover slowly, as Darling predicted in his last budget, so derided by the Tory press, he had it right, that will end soon. Without the actions of brown the Western economy would have collapsed, the price to be paid for that should not necessarily be by the people, but by the banks, they are now making big profits again, why are governments not asking for all their money back? After all that is where it all went in the first place. It does need a radical solution to this, and it should not involve making the majority of the population suffer, but that is what this coalition wants to do.

[BillyStubbsTears]

belton rover wrote:

Hey Billy, I think I've just worked out what this is all about!


Are you Mr Frost's older brother?

Oh be still my aching sides.

Has anyone on here ever met a right-wing supporter with a decent sense of humour?

[belton rover]

BillyStubbsTears wrote:

belton rover wrote:

Hey Billy, I think I've just worked out what this is all about!


Are you Mr Frost's older brother?

Oh be still my aching sides.

Has anyone on here ever met a right-wing supporter with a decent sense of humour?

Charlie Williams?

Although technically, as a centre back, he couldn't be classed as direct support for whoever played right wing, but I'm sure he would have slotted into the right back position on occasion.

And he was quite funny.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Not really helping your cause here Belton.

See me? I agree with Marx that there is a historical inevitability about the eventual success of the Left.

Mind, he was wrong on the mechanism. He reckoned it was pre-ordained through his dialectic materialist analysis.

In fact, it's Darwinian. Right wingers are such dull t**ts that nobody wants to socialise with them. Therefore, fewer will breed in any generation and they will eventually die out.

QED.

[hoolahoop]

belton rover wrote:

Hey Billy, I think I've just worked out what this is all about!


Are you Mr Frost's older brother?

Pages and pages of well thought out diametric positions from various posters on an important subject and.........that's all you can offer.      
I don't necessarily agree with any or some of BST's posts or other contributors for that matter but I have the respect to hear them out you tosser.
No wonder the English don't vote in numbers, most of them can't think or discuss a/any subject beyond a 'one liner'.  

[belton rover]

BillyStubbsTears wrote:

Not really helping your cause here Belton.

See me? I agree with Marx that there is a historical inevitability about the eventual success of the Left.

Mind, he was wrong on the mechanism. He reckoned it was pre-ordained through his dialectic materialist analysis.

In fact, it's Darwinian. Right wingers are such dull t**ts that nobody wants to socialise with them. Therefore, fewer will breed in any generation and they will eventually die out.

QED.

My cause?

Do you mean your inference that I may have a right wing cause, or am I missing some clever allegory within your text?

[belton rover]

hoolahoop wrote:

belton rover wrote:

Hey Billy, I think I've just worked out what this is all about!


Are you Mr Frost's older brother?

Pages and pages of well thought out diametric positions from various posters on an important subject and.........that's all you can offer.      
I don't necessarily agree with any or some of BST's posts or other contributors for that matter but I have the respect to hear them out you tosser.
No wonder the English don't vote in numbers, most of them can't think or discuss a/any subject beyond a 'one liner'.  

That's pretty much my point Hoola. Why say what you think in one line when you can say it in pages and pages and pages.

If you choose to partake in a mammoth intellectually stimulating write fest, then fine. I thought the debate needed an injection of one lined humour before everyone disappeared up there own arses, that's all. Either way, we can all lie on our backs afterwards and enjoy a big fat cigar.


And don't call me a tosser.

[hoolahoop]

See your point belton but if posters choose to carry out a 'thought provoking' debate amongst themselves in the 'Off Topic' section of the forum then that's their business.
Of course you are more than welcome to join in with your 'one liners'. lol

[Filo]

belton rover wrote:

And don't call me a tosser.

It`s a Term of Endearment in Thorne  

[BillyStubbsTears]

belton rover wrote:

BillyStubbsTears wrote:

Not really helping your cause here Belton.

See me? I agree with Marx that there is a historical inevitability about the eventual success of the Left.

Mind, he was wrong on the mechanism. He reckoned it was pre-ordained through his dialectic materialist analysis.

In fact, it's Darwinian. Right wingers are such dull t**ts that nobody wants to socialise with them. Therefore, fewer will breed in any generation and they will eventually die out.

QED.

My cause?

Do you mean your inference that I may have a right wing cause, or am I missing some clever allegory within your text?

My mistake. Tired typing fingers. I meant 'case'. As in the argument that right wingers might be funny.

[belton rover]

BillyStubbsTears wrote:

belton rover wrote:

BillyStubbsTears wrote:

Not really helping your cause here Belton.

See me? I agree with Marx that there is a historical inevitability about the eventual success of the Left.

Mind, he was wrong on the mechanism. He reckoned it was pre-ordained through his dialectic materialist analysis.

In fact, it's Darwinian. Right wingers are such dull t**ts that nobody wants to socialise with them. Therefore, fewer will breed in any generation and they will eventually die out.

QED.

My cause?

Do you mean your inference that I may have a right wing cause, or am I missing some clever allegory within your text?

My mistake. Tired typing fingers. I meant 'case'. As in the argument that right wingers might be funny.

But why would you assume I was right wing?

[BillyStubbsTears]

belton rover wrote:

BillyStubbsTears wrote:

belton rover wrote:

BillyStubbsTears wrote:

Not really helping your cause here Belton.

See me? I agree with Marx that there is a historical inevitability about the eventual success of the Left.

Mind, he was wrong on the mechanism. He reckoned it was pre-ordained through his dialectic materialist analysis.

In fact, it's Darwinian. Right wingers are such dull t**ts that nobody wants to socialise with them. Therefore, fewer will breed in any generation and they will eventually die out.

QED.

My cause?

Do you mean your inference that I may have a right wing cause, or am I missing some clever allegory within your text?

My mistake. Tired typing fingers. I meant 'case'. As in the argument that right wingers might be funny.

But why would you assume I was right wing?

Previous discussions many moons ago.

'Course, I could well be wrong.

EDIT: Just re-read that last sentence.   I'm clearly not feeling myself. I'm going to sit down with a cup for a minute. Normal service will be resumed shortly.

[belton rover]

BillyStubbsTears wrote:

belton rover wrote:

BillyStubbsTears wrote:

belton rover wrote:

BillyStubbsTears wrote:

Not really helping your cause here Belton.

See me? I agree with Marx that there is a historical inevitability about the eventual success of the Left.

Mind, he was wrong on the mechanism. He reckoned it was pre-ordained through his dialectic materialist analysis.

In fact, it's Darwinian. Right wingers are such dull t**ts that nobody wants to socialise with them. Therefore, fewer will breed in any generation and they will eventually die out.

QED.

My cause?

Do you mean your inference that I may have a right wing cause, or am I missing some clever allegory within your text?

My mistake. Tired typing fingers. I meant 'case'. As in the argument that right wingers might be funny.

But why would you assume I was right wing?

Previous discussions many moons ago.

'Course, I could well be wrong.

EDIT: Just re-read that last sentence.   I'm clearly not feeling myself. I'm going to sit down with a cup for a minute. Normal service will be resumed shortly.

Oh you mean the time when I said that I did not wish that Maggie would die a terrible painful death so that I could dance with you and others on her grave forever more?

You think that makes me right wing?

I prefer to think that it makes me human - but hey - that's politics for you.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Ah the classic misquote approach to pointed debate.

If you remembered more carefully than you do, you wod recall that I never wished a terrible death upon her.



















A quiet one in her sleep will do fine.

[belton rover]

BillyStubbsTears wrote:

Ah the classic misquote approach to pointed debate.

If you remembered more carefully than you do, you wod recall that I never wished a terrible death upon her.

I never said that you did - I said that I didn't.




















Quote / Misquote

[Mark Time]

I voted for Ed Miliband after speaking with him on election day (he was out knocking on doors on our street) I found him to be quite straighforward and refreshingly honest for a politician - he answered my questions and seemed sincere enough as far as any of them go. If he takes the party a bit to the left it doesn't bother me one iota - can't see the point of both Tory's and Labour occupying the same ground and it's time someone stood up to the bankers in deeds rather than words - make them suffer for the suffering they inflicted on the whole country with their greed end of as far as I'm concerned. No chance of the present coalition doing that they have not got the balls for it.

[BillyStubbsTears]

belton rover wrote:

BillyStubbsTears wrote:

Ah the classic misquote approach to pointed debate.

If you remembered more carefully than you do, you wod recall that I never wished a terrible death upon her.

I never said that you did - I said that I didn't.




















Quote / Misquote

Ah well. Every forum has its resident pedant who has to be right on every score.

[donnyproletarian]

arise you starvlings from your slumbers
come forth you criminals of want
for rovers in revolt now thunders
at at last ends the age of leeds
away with all your super wages
servile donny arise ,arise
welle change forthwith the old conference
spurn the championship to win the prize
then driscoll come rally
and the last match let us face
the total football army
united the football leauge
then driscoll come rally
and the last match let us face
the total football army
united the football leauge

Ps HAS ANYONE SEEN MY PROZAC

[Sandy Lane]

I like it.  

[CusworthRovers]

Does anybody fancy a pint?

[hoolahoop]

Mark Time wrote:

I voted for Ed Miliband after speaking with him on election day (he was out knocking on doors on our street) I found him to be quite straighforward and refreshingly honest for a politician - he answered my questions and seemed sincere enough as far as any of them go. If he takes the party a bit to the left it doesn't bother me one iota - can't see the point of both Tory's and Labour occupying the same ground and it's time someone stood up to the bankers in deeds rather than words - make them suffer for the suffering they inflicted on the whole country with their greed end of as far as I'm concerned. No chance of the present coalition doing that they have not got the balls for it.

Of course I forgot the Labour party had both full control of the Banking system when it virtually collapsed and a complete agenda for both recovering public money from them and exercising a far more rigid control over their transactions and policies.

Did I miss this some time ago in their manifesto or was it just a hotchpotch of 'maybes', couldbes' that evaded my eyes....btw who wrote the manifesto ?

Believe me this Coalition has got more than the balls for it fella and the power to do it only effectively when they start to unscramble it all!
An immediate 'full-on' attack on our own banks would be foolhardy in the extreme btw, they are part of the key to recovery.