Cameron

[BillyStubbsTears]

I've no idea Idler. I've seen no substance whatsoever from the Leave side on anything at all. Just vague, hand-waving "it'll be alright."

And since you're in Rhodes, I'm guessing you won't have seen Daniel Hannan on Newsnight last night effectively explaining (to Evan Davies's complete exasperation) that his Leave side has no intention of reducing immigration.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36628894


What exactly HAVE the leave side voted for?

[Not Now Kato]

The point is that there are genuine issues here. That website suggests that there are dozens of gratuitously violent threats to the public that have been exported from,what was it Colin C said, "their disgusting pig farms" to threaten us. It fits in to the overall thrust of the Leave campaign. Keep people ignorant. Misinform them. Stir up gut revulsion and tell people that they are at threat.

It is f**king disgusting to be honest. It is stoking up hatred and as Hannan admitted yesterday, they are not going to be doing anything about it. So where does that hatred go now that it is out of the bottle?

I wonder why no one thought of trying this before. Oh, hang on............
 

You should ask yourself: who gains from it?

Indeed.

[Dutch Uncle]

My fear is that leaving the EU will actually make Britain a more dangerous place to live. There will be less co-operation between police and security forces and criminals will be able to move around easier.

Looks like we will need to re-negotiate our position in Europol for a start

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/22/europol-chief-says-brexit-would-harm-uk-crime-fighting

[idler]

I've no idea Idler. I've seen no substance whatsoever from the Leave side on anything at all. Just vague, hand-waving "it'll be alright."

And since you're in Rhodes, I'm guessing you won't have seen Daniel Hannan on Newsnight last night effectively explaining (to Evan Davies's complete exasperation) that his Leave side has no intention of reducing immigration.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36628894


What exactly HAVE the leave side voted for?

No I just finished reading his article in Wednesday's Telegraph.
I'm stuck with the decision I made rightly or wrongly just like those that voted Thatcher in all those years ago. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
iPad down to 5% so that's probably it til tomorrow.
At least we whitewashed the Aussies in their own back yard.

[Donnywolf]

I've no idea Idler. I've seen no substance whatsoever from the Leave side on anything at all. Just vague, hand-waving "it'll be alright."

And since you're in Rhodes, I'm guessing you won't have seen Daniel Hannan on Newsnight last night effectively explaining (to Evan Davies's complete exasperation) that his Leave side has no intention of reducing immigration.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36628894


What exactly HAVE the leave side voted for?

Too true ... he was like a butterfly pinned to a board. Bang to rights !

I hope someone does look back on Youtube to see if he is telling the truth on that issue. He wont be - but they will redefine "taking back control" meant something different - more Sovereignty etc

They are already rowing back on the supposed 350 Mill a week we pay to the EU too

... and a lot of people who voted Leave have undoubtedly been conned voting for something that was misrepresented to them.

[BobG]

The EU has no option but to make it hurt leaving the EU. If they don't, they will fear a repeat elsewhere. So we will not get a golden deal. Nobody knows where the pain will come - but would you like to guess that right now?  Security co-operation depends on policies, structures and mutual adherence to them. We now face the prospect of having none of that in 2 years time. It's one of umpty thousand things that will have to be thought through.

I have no idea just where on the list of priorities that will fall. I did hear today though several talking heads suggesting that this exercise will be the biggest task this country has faced since the second world war. It will involve negotiating exit; it will involve negotiating bi lateral deals with every one of the former partners; it will crucify parliament as they struggle with the avalanche of legislation that will be required to unpick the old and define the new.

Real progress, social, economic and political has just been deferred a good number of years. No one will have the time, the energy or the inclination to think the big thoughts any longer. What you've got is what you'll have, at best, for at least the next 5 years.

BobG

[BillyStubbsTears]

Bob

That was the bleeding obvious response to "They'll still want to trade with us." And it was another bleeding obvious response that Remain failed to make.

Anyone who thinks that the EU are going to give us a better deal on the outside than we had on the inside shouldn't be let out without a grown-up to look after them, because they are clearly incapable of forming basic rational thoughts.

If it turns out that Britain has a better overall trading position by leaving, then that is obviously the end of the EU, because every other country would want to be in a similar situation. So it can't happen and it won't happen.

[BobG]

I've said it before, and it was unpopular then. But I'm going to say it again. What the hell is wrong with our education system that produces soo many people who simply cannot make the link between cause and effect? Between fact and conclusion? Why do we have so, so many people who can only 'think' with their emotions?

I have still to hear anybody, anybody at all, discuss just what the hell they are going to do once we have an open border with another EU nation - between Carlisle and Newcastle. That is so damn obvious it, all on its own, damns Cameron, Corbyn and the whole Remain campaign.  Immigrants? Unless we spend that pitiful amount of money we will 'get back' on fortifying the border they'll just walk across it. We can chuck 'em out when we catch 'em. Sure. But the Yankee experience don't give much ground for hope does it? They're talking about fortifying their own border now.... But the Israelis have been trying that for years. And even then they can't stop folk sneaking in.

Stupid. Our politicians, of all parties and all EC points of view, have shamefully let this country down. The harm that they've done this last 3 months, to human relations and to politics, never mind anything to do with the EC, is going to last and last and last.

We now live in a poorer country and a poorer world as a result of how we, collectively, have behaved this year. If we could have left with dignity, it would have been so, so much better - for everybody.

BobG

[bpoolrover]

I've no idea Idler. I've seen no substance whatsoever from the Leave side on anything at all. Just vague, hand-waving "it'll be alright."

And since you're in Rhodes, I'm guessing you won't have seen Daniel Hannan on Newsnight last night effectively explaining (to Evan Davies's complete exasperation) that his Leave side has no intention of reducing immigration.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36628894


What exactly HAVE the leave side voted for?

Too true ... he was like a butterfly pinned to a board. Bang to rights !

I hope someone does look back on Youtube to see if he is telling the truth on that issue. He wont be - but they will redefine "taking back control" meant something different - more Sovereignty etc

They are already rowing back on the supposed 350 Mill a week we pay to the EU too

... and a lot of people who voted Leave have undoubtedly been conned voting for something that was misrepresented to them.

People are conned every week by politicians,everything they say is about either keeping them or getting them into power,it will never change unfortunatly

[BobG]

So that makes it ok then does it?

Cheers

BobG

[Sammy Chung was King]

The conservatives lied to get in power, labour before that, it isn't right, we shouldn't be lied to, the least we can expect is the truth. Politicians seem to think the public 'Can't handle the truth'!. I think people would rather know a situation, be told the truth, then they can deal with it.
They would be respected more, if they went about things in this way.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Sammy

How did Labour lie to get into power?

[Sammy Chung was King]

They promised things they would do when in power, that they couldn't deliver on, just as the conservatives have.
 Like all human beings sometimes we say ''i will do this'', then the next day realise it's not possible. But sometimes deception is used to get into power.
 I think what the public are looking for, is a party that tells them the bad as well as the good, one that lives upto it's statements mostly. And a leader that they can relate to as leader of they're country.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Sammy

Go on. What things did they promise?

[BobG]

Fact based debate is soo old fashioned Billy! What you learned those 3 years at uni sitting up til 5 in the morning with a few bottles, some mates and not a care in the world - well, it's all washed up. There's a whole new world now. And it's a fantastic world too. It's legalised lying. It's abandoned the need for facts and it's destroyed the concept of evidence. It's wonderful. Cause does not have to precede effect. fact does not bear any resemblance to conclusion. Euclid has been thrust into the outer darkness.

I always did want to be an Anarchist when I come back in the next life. But I've got it right in the here and now. Awesome!

BobG

[bpoolrover]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/election-2010/7628796/General-Election-2010-Labours-broken-manifesto-pledges.html

[Sammy Chung was King]

Sammy

Go on. What things did they promise?

Can't be bothered, doesn't really matter anyway. Sorry Billy, i was in a black hole, after england proving, how crap they are!.

They said they were not planning on university students having to pay any fees, but by 1998 they were paying around a thousand pound.
Other than the ones provided by blackpool, Blair was pretty evasive on promising things. Miliband also didn't promise things he couldn't keep to, which was a plus for me.
Why didn't labour retain miliband as leader?. Yes they lost the election, but in hindsight, would he be seen as unelectable now, considering Corbyn's current position. I know without him going, corbyn wouldn't be leader, could there be a way back for him as things stand?, they could do a lot worse!.
Cheers blackpool for the link. I thought i would get stick for being a mardy sod, saying ''I couldn't be bothered''!.

[bpoolrover]

Sammy

Go on. What things did they promise?

Can't be bothered, doesn't really matter anyway.

i found it for you Sammy see above lol

[Colemans Left Hook]

in very simple terms


  am I the only one who thinks Cameron has taken one for the team - done this for the country --  not signing a-50

putting pressure on france   (Germany near elections as well ) elections next year and le pen has just this minute told them a few home truths -- very good speaker

BST by the way what did you say about le penne (pen) - not being a danger was it ?

besides a lot of people in france also want out   rising by the day -- the longer we don't sign the more insecure they become

Nuit debout  !!

remember I said before the vote I thought Cameron was really an outer - one of his x aides (interviewed as an outer) at 4 am in the morning also said this on tv

this really is worth a read -- get PAST  the ATTENTION SEEKING headlines

published 5th july 2014

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2681298/Cognac-breakfast-Daves-EU-nemesis-FAR-worse-skeletons-closet-including-Nazi-father-law-rumours-love-child.html

the article ends
 "You had to laugh. But the prospect of Britain’s strings being pulled by a pie-eyed pinball-wizard with a penchant for taxpayer-funded white elephants is sobering indeed.


so is Cameron trying to unstable junker ??


watch BOTH of those videos - one after the other
WAS CAMERON ANNOYED !!!

pen

[Glyn_Wigley]

Bloody hell, and I thought Farage was a swivel-eyed loon!

[BillyStubbsTears]

Coleman.

If you think I've ever said or thought that LePen is not a danger, there's not very much point talking to you anymore.

And there's obviously no point you reading anything either, if you base any decisions on the shite that the Mail writes.

For the record, two things about that Mail article.

1) It goes off on one about Juncker wasting millions on an airport with a train station that is not connected to the rail line. read the very first public comment after the article. "I live a few miles from that airport, I use it all the time, and I can assure you there is no unused train station there. It may have been planned at some point, but it was never built."

2) The link to that story says, in typical Mail style: "FAR-worse-skeletons-closet-including-Nazi-father". Then you read the actual article "his father, Joseph was forcibly conscripted into the Nazi army during the War and packed off to the Russian front. He bore the scars of combat — mental and physical — for the rest of his days."

Don't you get it? That rag lies and lies and lies every single day. It pours lies out like a sewer pipe pours out shite.

I KNOW how it operates, because I've had direct professional experience of it, where they lied barefacedly in an article about a project that my company was working on which had received a bit of media exposure. They, belated, wrote an article which gave the unequivocal impression that the work was an entirely British project, whereas we were actually one part of a multi-EU consortium nation working on the project. The journalist who wrote that article about my company KNEW the truth because he used a press release from my company which specifically explained that. But he chose to edit out the bit about the EU partners, and he deliberately misled his readers. Over something utterly trivial. But the policy of the Mail is to NEVER say anything positive about the EU.

That newspaper is an utter disgrace and it is shameful that it will have influenced so many votes last week.

I wouldn't trust the Kitsons to tell me the time of day.

[Sammy Chung was King]

in very simple terms


  am I the only one who thinks Cameron has taken one for the team - done this for the country --  not signing a-50

putting pressure on france   (Germany near elections as well ) elections next year and le pen has just this minute told them a few home truths -- very good speaker

BST by the way what did you say about le penne (pen) - not being a danger was it ?

besides a lot of people in france also want out   rising by the day -- the longer we don't sign the more insecure they become

Nuit debout  !!

remember I said before the vote I thought Cameron was really an outer - one of his x aides (interviewed as an outer) at 4 am in the morning also said this on tv

this really is worth a read -- get PAST  the ATTENTION SEEKING headlines

published 5th july 2014

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2681298/Cognac-breakfast-Daves-EU-nemesis-FAR-worse-skeletons-closet-including-Nazi-father-law-rumours-love-child.html

the article ends
 "You had to laugh. But the prospect of Britain’s strings being pulled by a pie-eyed pinball-wizard with a penchant for taxpayer-funded white elephants is sobering indeed.


so is Cameron trying to unstable junker ??


watch BOTH of those videos - one after the other
WAS CAMERON ANNOYED !!!

pen

Conspiracy theories aren't my strong point, but i have thought for a while. Though they all put up a fight on each side, that this is the result  the conservatives wanted.
And they have dragged labour into it and weakened they're closest competitor into the bargain.
Cameron said he wouldn't finish his term, when he was elected. I think that he wanted out early, and this was his opportunity. Thus leaving any backlash to Boris, while also leaving the conservatives as the only viable party to elect if a general election has to be faced.

They have complete power over what they want to do. He thinks he has left a stronger situation that he started with, but i think he is underestimating the labour party getting they're house in order, and the public seeing through it long term
Governments in our country, have been shielded from a lot of blame, by the newspapers bias, to blaming everything on the eu. Even though i voted out, have invested money back in that none of the governments in power would have.
I have seen it in my village, do up a local bulding with eu money, then the government cut funding a few years later, then the council sell the building onto a private investor, and the hope provided for a few years, is taken away, Norterhern powerhouse, my a..e!.