The new car tax. Road Pricing. It’s coming.

[drfchound]

They could tax short journeys much more heavily, that would encourage more walking/cycling/public transport and not penalise those who have to make longer journeys so much.

You need to have the infrastructure for that though and it's just not there and it would be have to be a bloody big tax given most still need a car.

My journey is an example.  It would cost me something like £54 a month for the bus..
I have to walk to and from bus stops and the journey is about 45-50 minutes using two buses.

Currently I can drive it in less than 20 minutes and it costs me nothing (ev charging at work).

I could hack the cost, but it's the time.the buses take that is the problem and they are not comfy either.

Isn't the infrastructure pretty much in place? Mobile phones seem to know where ever you go already.

I don’t take my mobile phone with me every time I go out so that wouldn’t work in my case.
My wife only ever switches her phone on if she makes a call, then it goes straight off again.

[River Don]

They could tax short journeys much more heavily, that would encourage more walking/cycling/public transport and not penalise those who have to make longer journeys so much.

You need to have the infrastructure for that though and it's just not there and it would be have to be a bloody big tax given most still need a car.

My journey is an example.  It would cost me something like £54 a month for the bus..
I have to walk to and from bus stops and the journey is about 45-50 minutes using two buses.

Currently I can drive it in less than 20 minutes and it costs me nothing (ev charging at work).

I could hack the cost, but it's the time.the buses take that is the problem and they are not comfy either.

Isn't the infrastructure pretty much in place? Mobile phones seem to know where ever you go already.

I don’t take my mobile phone with me every time I go out so that wouldn’t work in my case.
My wife only ever switches her phone on if she makes a call, then it goes straight off again.

I'd imagine they'd chip the car, I wouldn't be surprised if the technology isn't already in new cars.

[selby]

  I agree RD, and I wouldn't be surprised if the technology to defeat it isn't ready to come on the black market.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Actually, with it being digital they could set all kinds of criteria for road tax. They could charge more for congested roads, they could charge more for city centres, they could charge more for busy times of day. They could charge more for bigger, heavier vehicles.

So Lord Sugar would pay a fortune to take his Rolls into the City for a 9.30 meeting where as Janet could drive from Askern to work in a little Suzuki at a care home in Goole for very little.

How would anybody know how to budget a journey's cost when every time they go out in their car the price per mile would different on different roads at different times?

[SydneyRover]

Always seemed a fairer way of 'taxing'/getting revenue' from motorists to me. Why should I payexactly the same for my car, which is parked up most of the time, than someone who drives hundreds of miles a year?

Its the only mode of travel where you don't pay more the further you go.

So Joe Bloggs on a basic to average wage has a 40-50 mile per day commute gets taxed for going to work? It's insanity.

Joe bloggs may need to think about living closer to where he works . I’m not trying to be clever here either AL.
My wife used to clock up over 700 work miles a month. I suppose she is lucky. She has a job where she can wfh. All meetings now done online. She now does zero miles a month . And it won’t be changing anytime soon. Covid has been a positive in that respect. Many many areas of work have been re invented. The habit of going to an office every day has changed. Across many industries.

If you live in a rural area you have in most cases no choice but to travel for virtually everything. The idea of living in a town with all the masses of people and crime to me is horrific. It's nice to look over the fields and walk down the lanes on your door step. If i didn't have this and had to live amongst the crowds, anti social behaviour and crime i would in all seriousness consider ending it all.

It was their your choice of career, to live out there, they you weren't forced into it at gunpoint.

[albie]

Road pricing is not difficult to implement.

Countries like France have used it for some time on the motorways.
Numberplate recognition is likely to be the least cost option, with a journey between 2 points being measured in transit.

As said above, it gives the chance to have a variable tariff, so it could cost more in urban areas in peak times.

[drfchound]

Always seemed a fairer way of 'taxing'/getting revenue' from motorists to me. Why should I payexactly the same for my car, which is parked up most of the time, than someone who drives hundreds of miles a year?

Its the only mode of travel where you don't pay more the further you go.

So Joe Bloggs on a basic to average wage has a 40-50 mile per day commute gets taxed for going to work? It's insanity.

Joe bloggs may need to think about living closer to where he works . I’m not trying to be clever here either AL.
My wife used to clock up over 700 work miles a month. I suppose she is lucky. She has a job where she can wfh. All meetings now done online. She now does zero miles a month . And it won’t be changing anytime soon. Covid has been a positive in that respect. Many many areas of work have been re invented. The habit of going to an office every day has changed. Across many industries.

If you live in a rural area you have in most cases no choice but to travel for virtually everything. The idea of living in a town with all the masses of people and crime to me is horrific. It's nice to look over the fields and walk down the lanes on your door step. If i didn't have this and had to live amongst the crowds, anti social behaviour and crime i would in all seriousness consider ending it all.

It was their your choice of career, to live out there, they you weren't forced into it at gunpoint.

I suppose this could apply to people in the UK who complain about the government, or maybe Brexit.

[SydneyRover]

take it up with the author, a shitster debating an anarchist, that should be interesting, not

[drfchound]

take it up with the author, a shitster debating an anarchist, that should be interesting, not

But you have already dipped your toe into this thread SR.
Anyone would think you had an opinion here.
See below.

Always seemed a fairer way of 'taxing'/getting revenue' from motorists to me. Why should I payexactly the same for my car, which is parked up most of the time, than someone who drives hundreds of miles a year?

Its the only mode of travel where you don't pay more the further you go.

So Joe Bloggs on a basic to average wage has a 40-50 mile per day commute gets taxed for going to work? It's insanity.

Joe bloggs may need to think about living closer to where he works . I’m not trying to be clever here either AL.
My wife used to clock up over 700 work miles a month. I suppose she is lucky. She has a job where she can wfh. All meetings now done online. She now does zero miles a month . And it won’t be changing anytime soon. Covid has been a positive in that respect. Many many areas of work have been re invented. The habit of going to an office every day has changed. Across many industries.

If you live in a rural area you have in most cases no choice but to travel for virtually everything. The idea of living in a town with all the masses of people and crime to me is horrific. It's nice to look over the fields and walk down the lanes on your door step. If i didn't have this and had to live amongst the crowds, anti social behaviour and crime i would in all seriousness consider ending it all.

It was their your choice of career, to live out there, they you weren't forced into it at gunpoint.



« Reply #3 on Today at 09:51:08 am by SydneyRover »
Like Quote
the anarchist wants fairness?

[SydneyRover]

make your mind up hound do you want to be a shitster or have forum rules?

[drfchound]

make your mind up hound do you want to be a shitster or have forum rules?

Are anarchists banned from the forum.
Maybe you want to be a moderator.

[River Don]

  I agree RD, and I wouldn't be surprised if the technology to defeat it isn't ready to come on the black market.

Interesting thought. However tax evasion is pretty serious and if you get caught on camera somewhere you shouldn't be...

There is also the question of privacy. Having the authorities monitor wherever you go isn't going to be popular.

It opens a can of worms.

[SydneyRover]

The government has to get revenue from somewhere, incentives to buy and run EV cars were only ever going to be around during the changeover from ice vehicles.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

  I agree RD, and I wouldn't be surprised if the technology to defeat it isn't ready to come on the black market.

Interesting thought. However tax evasion is pretty serious and if you get caught on camera somewhere you shouldn't be...

There is also the question of privacey. Having the authorities monitor wherever you go isn't going to be popular.

It opens a can of worms.

Suppose they already have that with anpr anyway.  Even the channel 4 programme hunted shows how easy it can be for the pros to track you.

Actually, with it being digital they could set all kinds of criteria for road tax. They could charge more for congested roads, they could charge more for city centres, they could charge more for busy times of day. They could charge more for bigger, heavier vehicles.

So Lord Sugar would pay a fortune to take his Rolls into the City for a 9.30 meeting where as Janet could drive from Askern to work in a little Suzuki at a care home in Goole for very little.

How would anybody know how to budget a journey's cost when every time they go out in their car the price per mile would different on different roads at different times?

Your car would tell you what it's going to cost, you'd probably pay a fee monthly via direct debit and true it up.  It's like having a fuel card I guess.

[River Don]

... I suppose... If the technology is accurate enough... They'd be able to monitor what speed you're travelling at. Now there is a thought.

[DonnyNoel]

Always seemed a fairer way of 'taxing'/getting revenue' from motorists to me. Why should I payexactly the same for my car, which is parked up most of the time, than someone who drives hundreds of miles a year?

Its the only mode of travel where you don't pay more the further you go.

So Joe Bloggs on a basic to average wage has a 40-50 mile per day commute gets taxed for going to work? It's insanity.

Joe bloggs may need to think about living closer to where he works . I’m not trying to be clever here either AL.
My wife used to clock up over 700 work miles a month. I suppose she is lucky. She has a job where she can wfh. All meetings now done online. She now does zero miles a month . And it won’t be changing anytime soon. Covid has been a positive in that respect. Many many areas of work have been re invented. The habit of going to an office every day has changed. Across many industries.

If you live in a rural area you have in most cases no choice but to travel for virtually everything. The idea of living in a town with all the masses of people and crime to me is horrific. It's nice to look over the fields and walk down the lanes on your door step. If i didn't have this and had to live amongst the crowds, anti social behaviour and crime i would in all seriousness consider ending it all.

It was their your choice of career, to live out there, they you weren't forced into it at gunpoint.

f**k me you're often on the money but thats embarrassingly naive. People are born in various places and moving to where they work isn't often feasible/affordable. There's more than 50 shades of grey on this. Many NMW workers travel to cities for work whilst higher paid colleagues either live there or enjoy hybrid/WFH roles. It has to be much more nuanced, and I don't just mean that for the workers benefit, if lower paid employees can't afford to travel to work we're in to a house of cards scenario.

[WheatleyRover]

They want you in electric brum brums.

[River Don]

Always seemed a fairer way of 'taxing'/getting revenue' from motorists to me. Why should I payexactly the same for my car, which is parked up most of the time, than someone who drives hundreds of miles a year?

Its the only mode of travel where you don't pay more the further you go.

So Joe Bloggs on a basic to average wage has a 40-50 mile per day commute gets taxed for going to work? It's insanity.

Joe bloggs may need to think about living closer to where he works . I’m not trying to be clever here either AL.
My wife used to clock up over 700 work miles a month. I suppose she is lucky. She has a job where she can wfh. All meetings now done online. She now does zero miles a month . And it won’t be changing anytime soon. Covid has been a positive in that respect. Many many areas of work have been re invented. The habit of going to an office every day has changed. Across many industries.

If you live in a rural area you have in most cases no choice but to travel for virtually everything. The idea of living in a town with all the masses of people and crime to me is horrific. It's nice to look over the fields and walk down the lanes on your door step. If i didn't have this and had to live amongst the crowds, anti social behaviour and crime i would in all seriousness consider ending it all.

It was their your choice of career, to live out there, they you weren't forced into it at gunpoint.

f**k me you're often on the money but thats embarrassingly naive. People are born in various places and moving to where they work isn't often feasible/affordable. There's more than 50 shades of grey on this. Many NMW workers travel to cities for work whilst higher paid colleagues either live there or enjoy hybrid/WFH roles. It has to be much more nuanced, and I don't just mean that for the workers benefit, if lower paid employees can't afford to travel to work we're in to a house of cards scenario.

We're just so accustomed to easy travel.

When Denison brought the railway to Doncaster he built workers houses right next to the plant (one of them was where the man who started a football club called Rovers in the town lived) It's just within living memory when people used to walk or bicycle enmass to the local factory.

Long distance commutes may not necessarily be viable in future.

[DonnyNoel]

Always seemed a fairer way of 'taxing'/getting revenue' from motorists to me. Why should I payexactly the same for my car, which is parked up most of the time, than someone who drives hundreds of miles a year?

Its the only mode of travel where you don't pay more the further you go.

So Joe Bloggs on a basic to average wage has a 40-50 mile per day commute gets taxed for going to work? It's insanity.

Joe bloggs may need to think about living closer to where he works . I’m not trying to be clever here either AL.
My wife used to clock up over 700 work miles a month. I suppose she is lucky. She has a job where she can wfh. All meetings now done online. She now does zero miles a month . And it won’t be changing anytime soon. Covid has been a positive in that respect. Many many areas of work have been re invented. The habit of going to an office every day has changed. Across many industries.

If you live in a rural area you have in most cases no choice but to travel for virtually everything. The idea of living in a town with all the masses of people and crime to me is horrific. It's nice to look over the fields and walk down the lanes on your door step. If i didn't have this and had to live amongst the crowds, anti social behaviour and crime i would in all seriousness consider ending it all.

It was their your choice of career, to live out there, they you weren't forced into it at gunpoint.

f**k me you're often on the money but thats embarrassingly naive. People are born in various places and moving to where they work isn't often feasible/affordable. There's more than 50 shades of grey on this. Many NMW workers travel to cities for work whilst higher paid colleagues either live there or enjoy hybrid/WFH roles. It has to be much more nuanced, and I don't just mean that for the workers benefit, if lower paid employees can't afford to travel to work we're in to a house of cards scenario.

We're just so accustomed to easy travel.

When Denison brought the railway to Doncaster he built workers houses right next to the plant (one of them was where the man who started a football club called Rovers in the town lived) It's just within living memory when people used to walk or bicycle enmass to the local factory.

Long distance commutes may not necessarily be viable in future.

I know that fact too, it was incredible. I'm sure Jeff Bezos will be buying up all those nice houses behind B&Q for his pickers/packers. Some surprising privelige on this thread.

[SydneyRover]

Always seemed a fairer way of 'taxing'/getting revenue' from motorists to me. Why should I payexactly the same for my car, which is parked up most of the time, than someone who drives hundreds of miles a year?

Its the only mode of travel where you don't pay more the further you go.

So Joe Bloggs on a basic to average wage has a 40-50 mile per day commute gets taxed for going to work? It's insanity.

Joe bloggs may need to think about living closer to where he works . I’m not trying to be clever here either AL.
My wife used to clock up over 700 work miles a month. I suppose she is lucky. She has a job where she can wfh. All meetings now done online. She now does zero miles a month . And it won’t be changing anytime soon. Covid has been a positive in that respect. Many many areas of work have been re invented. The habit of going to an office every day has changed. Across many industries.

If you live in a rural area you have in most cases no choice but to travel for virtually everything. The idea of living in a town with all the masses of people and crime to me is horrific. It's nice to look over the fields and walk down the lanes on your door step. If i didn't have this and had to live amongst the crowds, anti social behaviour and crime i would in all seriousness consider ending it all.

It was their your choice of career, to live out there, they you weren't forced into it at gunpoint.

f**k me you're often on the money but thats embarrassingly naive. People are born in various places and moving to where they work isn't often feasible/affordable. There's more than 50 shades of grey on this. Many NMW workers travel to cities for work whilst higher paid colleagues either live there or enjoy hybrid/WFH roles. It has to be much more nuanced, and I don't just mean that for the workers benefit, if lower paid employees can't afford to travel to work we're in to a house of cards scenario.

Noel, I was having a dig at Axholm that was his reply, parts of which I struck out was his rejoinder when I pointed out the 800+ deaths of health care workers due to covid and lack of ppe.

[DonnyNoel]

Always seemed a fairer way of 'taxing'/getting revenue' from motorists to me. Why should I payexactly the same for my car, which is parked up most of the time, than someone who drives hundreds of miles a year?

Its the only mode of travel where you don't pay more the further you go.

So Joe Bloggs on a basic to average wage has a 40-50 mile per day commute gets taxed for going to work? It's insanity.

Joe bloggs may need to think about living closer to where he works . I’m not trying to be clever here either AL.
My wife used to clock up over 700 work miles a month. I suppose she is lucky. She has a job where she can wfh. All meetings now done online. She now does zero miles a month . And it won’t be changing anytime soon. Covid has been a positive in that respect. Many many areas of work have been re invented. The habit of going to an office every day has changed. Across many industries.

If you live in a rural area you have in most cases no choice but to travel for virtually everything. The idea of living in a town with all the masses of people and crime to me is horrific. It's nice to look over the fields and walk down the lanes on your door step. If i didn't have this and had to live amongst the crowds, anti social behaviour and crime i would in all seriousness consider ending it all.

It was their your choice of career, to live out there, they you weren't forced into it at gunpoint.

f**k me you're often on the money but thats embarrassingly naive. People are born in various places and moving to where they work isn't often feasible/affordable. There's more than 50 shades of grey on this. Many NMW workers travel to cities for work whilst higher paid colleagues either live there or enjoy hybrid/WFH roles. It has to be much more nuanced, and I don't just mean that for the workers benefit, if lower paid employees can't afford to travel to work we're in to a house of cards scenario.

Noel, I was having a dig at Axholm that was his reply, parts of which I struck out was his rejoinder when I pointed out the 800+ deaths of health care workers due to covid and lack of ppe.

Ah I see, will stay out of this one then on both sides 

[wilts rover]

Always seemed a fairer way of 'taxing'/getting revenue' from motorists to me. Why should I payexactly the same for my car, which is parked up most of the time, than someone who drives hundreds of miles a year?

Its the only mode of travel where you don't pay more the further you go.

So Joe Bloggs on a basic to average wage has a 40-50 mile per day commute gets taxed for going to work? It's insanity.

Why should Joe Bloggs who walks to work, Jayne Bloggs who cycles, or Josephine Bloggs who catches the bus subsidise him? You use it - you pay for it. Common sense.

[Axholme Lion]

Always seemed a fairer way of 'taxing'/getting revenue' from motorists to me. Why should I payexactly the same for my car, which is parked up most of the time, than someone who drives hundreds of miles a year?

Its the only mode of travel where you don't pay more the further you go.

So Joe Bloggs on a basic to average wage has a 40-50 mile per day commute gets taxed for going to work? It's insanity.

Joe bloggs may need to think about living closer to where he works . I’m not trying to be clever here either AL.
My wife used to clock up over 700 work miles a month. I suppose she is lucky. She has a job where she can wfh. All meetings now done online. She now does zero miles a month . And it won’t be changing anytime soon. Covid has been a positive in that respect. Many many areas of work have been re invented. The habit of going to an office every day has changed. Across many industries.

If you live in a rural area you have in most cases no choice but to travel for virtually everything. The idea of living in a town with all the masses of people and crime to me is horrific. It's nice to look over the fields and walk down the lanes on your door step. If i didn't have this and had to live amongst the crowds, anti social behaviour and crime i would in all seriousness consider ending it all.

It was their your choice of career, to live out there, they you weren't forced into it at gunpoint.

f**k me you're often on the money but thats embarrassingly naive. People are born in various places and moving to where they work isn't often feasible/affordable. There's more than 50 shades of grey on this. Many NMW workers travel to cities for work whilst higher paid colleagues either live there or enjoy hybrid/WFH roles. It has to be much more nuanced, and I don't just mean that for the workers benefit, if lower paid employees can't afford to travel to work we're in to a house of cards scenario.

Noel, I was having a dig at Axholm that was his reply, parts of which I struck out was his rejoinder when I pointed out the 800+ deaths of health care workers due to covid and lack of ppe.

I have had family around here since the 1700s. If i moved into Donny you'd only be moaning about taking up housing locals could have bought.

[normal rules]

Road pricing is not difficult to implement.

Countries like France have used it for some time on the motorways.
Numberplate recognition is likely to be the least cost option, with a journey between 2 points being measured in transit.

As said above, it gives the chance to have a variable tariff, so it could cost more in urban areas in peak times.

For this to be implemented there would have to be an or cameras on every road, at every junction across the country. This will never happen.
You are right about France, but this is for motorways only. The road system in France is much different on ours. They have a much bigger country for a start.those that live in France usually avoid the motorways as they are not cost effective. Especially for short journeys. Again though, the infrastructure required for this in the uk would be cost prohibitive. It took us years to sort out things like the dartFord crossing.