Spare ten minutes?

[VivaRovers]

If you've a spare ten or fifteen minutes, or want something to distract you from the reason for Friday's extra day-off then you might want to give this article a read. It was supposed to be a few notes and observations on Rovers and ticketing, but wound up being something of an essay.

[yapper1901]

If you've a spare ten or fifteen minutes, or want something to distract you from the reason for Friday's extra day-off then you might want to give this article a read. It was supposed to be a few notes and observations on Rovers and ticketing, but wound up being something of an essay.

good read but when doing your calculations you should have included super 8 could have made the figures a truer picture

[CusworthRovers]

Said it before shagger, you should be in the media department at DRFC or writing for the local rags. You've called it spot on, in many areas you talk about re state of game, pricing, confusion of differing ticket prices, needing monies coming in etc etc.

Sadly I'm still seething having paid that top dollar at Leicester, against their cheaper dollars, so still don't share your views there. However, without a shadow of doubt your point is the correct one (and until my teddy is returned to my cot, I'll still say charge them full whack).

In short your script hits the nail on the head, but like myself it doesn't know the answer.

The question is effectively posed in there ie How do we get fans in, How do we keep them, How do we make it cheaper to reflect the economic standing of Doncaster, What is a reasonable price, What do we need to break even, Do we(board and fans) want to compete and remain at this level??????? and many more questions in there.

All the above I could pop an uneducated shite answer at, I could maybe answer 1 or 2...but in effect that's no good, as answering 1 will have an effect on the others that I couldn't really answer. All the questions will and do have a knock on effect on the other and the best people to answer those with soundness are probably the Board and Mozzer.


Such a good read that mate. Don't take this an insult, but can't you just transport your Viva into the VSC ie a Viva section within and part of the VSC. I'd be a regular on there and know others would. There is such a draw to this site with all it's diversity and personally I'm more a 1 site kinda guy. I generally read your stuff when you link it on here.

[john_donc857]

Speaking as a season ticket holder, all i was expecting this year was the chance to renew my ticket by june at around about the same price as i`ve paid for this season. If i`m honest i just could`nt be bothered to go and sort it out by the march deadline. I feel like i`ve been stung and i won`t be paying £420 for a seat in the south east corner that cost me £270 two seasons ago.

[Wellred]

If you've a spare ten or fifteen minutes, or want something to distract you from the reason for Friday's extra day-off then you might want to give this article a read. It was supposed to be a few notes and observations on Rovers and ticketing, but wound up being something of an essay.

good read but when doing your calculations you should have included super 8 could have made the figures a truer picture

You also missed out the Barnsley game which I believe was also sold at a discounted rate.

[RTID75]

Great article.

For me, the whole thing boils down to this bit right at the end:

Grand gestures such as the ‘Good Freeday’ promotion bring great publicity and a welcome feel-good factor, but they do little to address the actual issue.

If I'd written that article I think I'd have forwarded it to all the Rovers e-mail addresses I could find as it talks complete sense, points out the complete 'bleedin' obvious' and might make management sit up, take notice and review some very unwise policy decisions of late. Actually, I take the last bit back - their heads, as always, would still be far too far into the sand to read it. Shame.

[Metalmicky]

If you've a spare ten or fifteen minutes, or want something to distract you from the reason for Friday's extra day-off then you might want to give this article a read. It was supposed to be a few notes and observations on Rovers and ticketing, but wound up being something of an essay.

Spot on Viva

I totally agree with your point that the club should be setting realistic prices which represent affordability for their fans, rather than setting a price based on the income and budget required to break even.

I’m sure there is a ‘business model’ that they are adhering to; however, this needs to also take into account that if the man on the street can’t afford their ‘structure’ then he ain’t going to fork out.

I also agree that not including away fans on our discounted promotional days does little to entice the already wavering away fan, who has probably already looked at the fixture list and placed a visit to Donny on the ‘unlikely’ list of away trips.

[VivaRovers]

good read but when doing your calculations you should have included super 8 could have made the figures a truer picture

You also missed out the Barnsley game which I believe was also sold at a discounted rate.

I can see the finger nail marks where the two of you have clung onto your points, but to appease you and help you sleep easier...

The Barnsley game is not missed out, its included toward the end of the article and is also included within the calculations. The Barnsley game was priced at £20 so its still impossible for a person  buying on a match by match basis to have spent less than a season ticket holder in the equivalent seat.

As for the Magic 8 tickets, I'm not sure what you mean about making the 'figures a truer picture' Yapper or where you expected them to be included in the calculations.

The Magic 8 tickets were not introduced until 4 home league games of the season had passed. The only way anyone could have saved money on a season ticket holder by buying a Magic 8 ticket is if they bought two of them, and then through incredible luck or inside knowledge managed to choose the discounted games as the three matches they attended without using the tickets.

If they pulled off this feat the minimum they would have paid for match attendance this season is £484 (£109 for the first four games, £350 for their two magic 8 tickets, then £10 v Swansea, £15 v Millwall, Free v Palace). So the only season ticket holders they would have paid less than is those who paid £500. If you can find anyone who managed to pull this off then I would be very surprised, as firstly the Magic 8 tickets are unlikely to have been taken up by people who can attend every game, and secondly it would, as I have said need a great deal of luck to have choose the right games to not use the Magic 8 tickets for.

[Filo]

As someone else has pointed out, that article needs e mailing the everyone at the club, including JR, a superb article!

[Metalmicky]

I agree with Filo - this needs a wider audience and I think it is more representative of our the regular 'heart on the sleve' Rovers supporter.

BTW Viva, it wasn't Yapper who brought up the Magic 8's it was Wellred.

Superb and very well thought through article.  As I have said previously about your work............

\"It actually looks like someone has made an effort\".  Good job mate

[Rosso Exile Deux]

Good read Viva.  One additional point I think you missed.

Pre takeover a Blackburn director was on the radio and highlighted that high prices don't just make fans miss games but it also 'breaks the habit'. i.e. if a fan misses a game because of finances they might just find something else to do on a Saturday and miss the next one for completely different reasons.  Messing about with KO times by S*y also contributes to that.

By the way when I go down to Newport County in conference its £15 and they are about £ 2-3 cheaper than most.

Last point...soz for not speaking when you got off at St Micks last week, I was messing with my phone and by time I realised twas you it was too late.

[Wellred]

I agree with Filo - this needs a wider audience and I think it is more representative of our the regular 'heart on the sleve' Rovers supporter.

BTW Viva, it wasn't Yapper who brought up the Magic 8's it was Wellred.

Superb and very well thought through article.  As I have said previously about your work............

\"It actually looks like someone has made an effort\".  Good job mate

I think you need to go to Specsavers Metalmickey. Can you please point out to me where I brought up the Magic 8's?

[Metalmicky]

I agree with Filo - this needs a wider audience and I think it is more representative of our the regular 'heart on the sleve' Rovers supporter.

BTW Viva, it wasn't Yapper who brought up the Magic 8's it was Wellred.

Superb and very well thought through article.  As I have said previously about your work............

\"It actually looks like someone has made an effort\".  Good job mate

I think you need to go to Specsavers Metalmickey. Can you please point out to me where I brought up the Magic 8's?

Apologies Wellred - appointment booked.......... much prefer a layout where the quoted item is boxed - I find they all mix into one.

[The L J Monk]

Great article Viva.

Just one point - Leicester tickets were actually repriced at £15 for both home and away fans about 10 days ago. This may have been to do with reclassifying Palace as a \"local promotion\" meaning we'd used up a our quota for the season. Or it may have been a noble gesture from the Board to create equity in pricing for all fans on the day. Not sure which.

[Ian H]

I've pretty much stopped posting .... but

Pre takeover a Blackburn director was on the radio and highlighted that high prices don't just make fans miss games but it also 'breaks the habit'. i.e. if a fan misses a game because of finances they might just find something else to do on a Saturday and miss the next one for completely different reasons

I didn't buy an ST for season 2010/11 ... I did put £400 to one side so that I could go to most games ... but I got out of the habit ... and I don't miss the Keepmoat like I missed Belle Vue. I have been asked if I want to be \"scouted\" for 2011/12, but currently I'm out of the habit - I didn't even bother for the Good Freeday game - I'm lost as a regular, some would say \"Good Riddance\"  

Oh... Good Article and plenty of thought gone into it!  

[Filo]

I've pretty much stopped posting .... but

Pre takeover a Blackburn director was on the radio and highlighted that high prices don't just make fans miss games but it also 'breaks the habit'. i.e. if a fan misses a game because of finances they might just find something else to do on a Saturday and miss the next one for completely different reasons

I didn't buy an ST for season 2010/11 ... I did put £400 to one side so that I could go to most games ... but I got out of the habit ... and I don't miss the Keepmoat like I missed Belle Vue. I have been asked if I want to be \"scouted\" for 2011/12, but currently I'm out of the habit - I didn't even bother for the Good Freeday game - I'm lost as a regular, some would say \"Good Riddance\"  

Oh... Good Article and plenty of thought gone into it!  

It`s time you got back into the habit, you say you`ve pretty much stopped posting, but you still care enough to come and have a peek on here and that article has prompted you to post a response confirming what was mentioned in the article, if you did n`t care, you would n`t have posted that response, now`s the time to give yourself a kick up the backside, get scouted, save a bit on your season ticket and get back into the habit, you know you want to, so come on down!

[RedJ]

I've pretty much stopped posting .... but

Pre takeover a Blackburn director was on the radio and highlighted that high prices don't just make fans miss games but it also 'breaks the habit'. i.e. if a fan misses a game because of finances they might just find something else to do on a Saturday and miss the next one for completely different reasons

I didn't buy an ST for season 2010/11 ... I did put £400 to one side so that I could go to most games ... but I got out of the habit ... and I don't miss the Keepmoat like I missed Belle Vue. I have been asked if I want to be \"scouted\" for 2011/12, but currently I'm out of the habit - I didn't even bother for the Good Freeday game - I'm lost as a regular, some would say \"Good Riddance\"  

Oh... Good Article and plenty of thought gone into it!  

It`s time you got back into the habit, you say you`ve pretty much stopped posting, but you still care enough to come and have a peek on here and that article has prompted you to post a response confirming what was mentioned in the article, if you did n`t care, you would n`t have posted that response, now`s the time to give yourself a kick up the backside, get scouted, save a bit on your season ticket and get back into the habit, you know you want to, so come on down!

nice to see you, to see you...

[yapper1901]

good read but when doing your calculations you should have included super 8 could have made the figures a truer picture

You also missed out the Barnsley game which I believe was also sold at a discounted rate.

I can see the finger nail marks where the two of you have clung onto your points, but to appease you and help you sleep easier...

The Barnsley game is not missed out, its included toward the end of the article and is also included within the calculations. The Barnsley game was priced at £20 so its still impossible for a person  buying on a match by match basis to have spent less than a season ticket holder in the equivalent seat.

As for the Magic 8 tickets, I'm not sure what you mean about making the 'figures a truer picture' Yapper or where you expected them to be included in the calculations.

The Magic 8 tickets were not introduced until 4 home league games of the season had passed. The only way anyone could have saved money on a season ticket holder by buying a Magic 8 ticket is if they bought two of them, and then through incredible luck or inside knowledge managed to choose the discounted games as the three matches they attended without using the tickets.

If they pulled off this feat the minimum they would have paid for match attendance this season is £484 (£109 for the first four games, £350 for their two magic 8 tickets, then £10 v Swansea, £15 v Millwall, Free v Palace). So the only season ticket holders they would have paid less than is those who paid £500. If you can find anyone who managed to pull this off then I would be very surprised, as firstly the Magic 8 tickets are unlikely to have been taken up by people who can attend every game, and secondly it would, as I have said need a great deal of luck to have choose the right games to not use the Magic 8 tickets for.

not really as if prices are similar to last year even if you bought your season ticket on early bird its £460
now your prices down include cat b games which i believe every other game bar leeds, sheff utd and a couple others were

my whole point anyway wasnt to argue over pounds and pence it was to point out how close the cat a people are from actually losing money buy buying a season ticket and that just shouldnt be the case

i think this will be the reason a lot are not renewing and i hope i am wrong but the figures are alarming and do have to make people think long and hard before handing over £400 +

[VivaRovers]

Great article Viva.

Just one point - Leicester tickets were actually repriced at £15 for both home and away fans about 10 days ago. This may have been to do with reclassifying Palace as a \"local promotion\" meaning we'd used up a our quota for the season. Or it may have been a noble gesture from the Board to create equity in pricing for all fans on the day. Not sure which.

Aye, someone made that point to me on Twitter after the article was posted LJM. I knew of a couple of Leicester fans who'd purchased tickets at £28 having hoped to buy at £15, but it appears this pricing has since been reversed. I would like to think that the board had made the decision to appear 'the bigger man' as it were over Leicester and offer their supporters the same price. However, its more likely that they were forced to reclassify it as Category C (like Millwall) in view of the Palace game taking the position as the fourth 'home fans only' promotion game.

Good points raised by Rosso Exile too and not a factor I confess to having considered, but its clear, as Ian H reaffirms, that this is an issue. Its also one thats much harder to address, although I would hope the other suggestions would limit how many fans made the decision to give games a miss. Given where we've come from over the last ten years its to be expected that the Keepmoat (though a needed step forward from Belle Vue) will not be what some people want from a matchday experience. As shown by Ian H this section of support won't need much of an excuse to stop attending... doesn't make the individual less of a fan mind, just a financially better off fan.

[VivaRovers]

my whole point anyway wasnt to argue over pounds and pence it was to point out how close the cat a people are from actually losing money buy buying a season ticket and that just shouldnt be the case

A season ticket holder is not close to 'losing money'. There is a slim chance they may not have saved as much money (by a few £s) than a tiny (probably non-existent) section who managed to buy two Magic 8 tickets and not use them for the three cheapest promotional games.

The season ticket still represents a saving over anyone who has chosen to pay on a match by match basis, and thats not including the other perks... discount in club shop, seat ensured, first dibs on away matches and cup matches. A season ticket still represents value for money in comparison to purchasing individual match tickets.

The argument as to whether a season ticket or a matchday ticket represent value for money for what they each individually entitle you too is however a different one.

[Berkshire Rover]

Viva, you make a number of points that I completely agree with namely,

Season tickets still represent value for money when compared to individual match day pricing.
Our current pricing structure and categorisation within the ground are both too complicated and in terms of seat categories wrong.
More people will come and see us play if the price is lower.

The conundrum as ever is what to do about it.

One thing that I would Iike to see is a permanent resectionong of the North stand, so that the assumption is that only the central section is reserved for away fans, in this way the club could set a pricing structure aimed at a maximum home attendance of c.13,500 as opposed to the current c. 12,000.

The 2 corners could be sold as unreserved seats on a match by match basis I.e. Don't sell season tickets for those areas so that for the few games where they may be a very large away following the whole of the North stand could temporarily be made available.

Only time will tell whether the number of season tickets next year is significantly down on this year, I do know that they were hoping for 3,000 by the early bird deadline and a similar number after.

This is a subject that we intend tom discuss with the club once the dust has settled on the season, we have made some progress this year with the spread payment Orion and the heavily discounted games, we will continue to push for further change.

If anyone has other positive suggestions that we can take forward please let us know.

[hoolahoop]

If you've a spare ten or fifteen minutes, or want something to distract you from the reason for Friday's extra day-off then you might want to give this article a read. It was supposed to be a few notes and observations on Rovers and ticketing, but wound up being something of an essay.

Spot on Viva

I totally agree with your point that the club should be setting realistic prices which represent affordability for their fans, rather than setting a price based on the income and budget required to break even.

I’m sure there is a ‘business model’ that they are adhering to; however, this needs to also take into account that if the man on the street can’t afford their ‘structure’ then he ain’t going to fork out.

I also agree that not including away fans on our discounted promotional days does little to entice the already wavering away fan, who has probably already looked at the fixture list and placed a visit to Donny on the ‘unlikely’ list of away trips.
That's garbage , if you read other fora you will find that Donny is exactly the opposite and usually stated by many as a great day out/weekend with a nice town and welcoming fans.........yes that's us. I suppose it's easier for some to think of our town, stadium and people as not worthy of a visit, that's patently untrue and is only bandied about by the pint 1/2 full merchants or the paranoid with little pride in what both our town and club have achieved of late.

It's a good job that generally fans of other teams have a higher opinion of us than we do!

[VivaRovers]

Hoola, you are Mayor Peter Davies and I claim my five pounds

Anyway, the statement about Doncaster being one of the away games opposition fans are least likely to choose to attend is not based on the town, but the perceived draw of the club in comparison to others in the division.

In this division we're a small club in a non-remarkable ground. Thats not being glass half full or paranoid (paranoid?!), thats just calling it how it is. Those that have come may have had a great time, but the chances are the away fan who picks and chooses his or her games is not likely to pick us over Leeds, QPR, Forest, Sheffield United and all the other sides that have been knocking around the top division in the last few years.

[Viking Don]

I agree Viva, and also hope that IanH starts posting and goes to games again.

[Wellred]

I too agree Viva and you do make some very good points.