the Double Dip is here

[sedwardsdrfc]

if you studying something worthwile then the tuitions fees shouldent put anyone off. it is the people who go and study stupid subjects who will have to face up to the real world a bit sooner education educastion and then some more education is just delaying the inevatable of actually having to get a job and having to work hard. at my work we've had people applying for minimum wage jobs who have degrees in english language and history and i would be there boss and i left school at 15 what a waste of time

[Thinwhiteduke]

We can't provide enough jobs for the unemployed, soon we won't be able to afford petrol for our cars, will struggle to buy enough food to feed our familys, the list could go on!!

But old Gideon & Cameron are two of the worst and simply have no idea how a normal working class person lives due to their upbringing! They can sit up in their castles under their pots of money!! Without a care in the world!!

Agreed.

Why are the Tories not getting rid of these 'Non Jobs' then ans instead threatening the jobs of essential services such as care for adults with severe learning difficulites.

Its alright the Tosser in this thread saying 'everyone should live within their means', Ive took a 3% cut this year and my Pension scheme has closed, my Partner at DMBC is about to be hit with a 2% cut. These Tory bas**rds have more or less stripped our Tax credits to nothing whilst giving the great unwashed a 5% rise in their benefits.

I do live within our means, we've never asked for anything from the state, we have never claimed benefits...Id like mjdgreg to explain how we continue to do so when we had no disposable income anyway and that has now we've been hit by cuts.

This Government doesnt give a flying one about middle england, the bread and butter of this nation, its cares solely about the top 10-15%.

Shortly they may have to find themselves housing me, providing my kids with free school meals and I'll grind out every feasible benefit I can claim - Im entitled to it, Ive paid my share of Tax and National Insurance over the years, but, as thing stand, I'll be better of resigning along with our lass, default on the mortgage and, having two young girls, I already know the Council will have to house us.

[Filo]

We can't provide enough jobs for the unemployed, soon we won't be able to afford petrol for our cars, will struggle to buy enough food to feed our familys, the list could go on!!

But old Gideon & Cameron are two of the worst and simply have no idea how a normal working class person lives due to their upbringing! They can sit up in their castles under their pots of money!! Without a care in the world!!

Agreed.

Why are the Tories not getting rid of these 'Non Jobs' then ans instead threatening the jobs of essential services such as care for adults with severe learning difficulites.

Its alright the Tosser in this thread saying 'everyone should live within their means', Ive took a 3% cut this year and my Pension scheme has closed, my Partner at DMBC is about to be hit with a 2% cut. These Tory bas**rds have more or less stripped our Tax credits to nothing whilst giving the great unwashed a 5% rise in their benefits.

I do live within our means, we've never asked for anything from the state, we have never claimed benefits...Id like mjdgreg to explain how we continue to do so when we had no disposable income anyway and that has now we've been hit by cuts.

This Government doesnt give a flying one about middle england, the bread and butter of this nation, its cares solely about the top 10-15%.

Shortly they may have to find themselves housing me, providing my kids with free school meals and I'll grind out every feasible benefit I can claim - Im entitled to it, Ive paid my share of Tax and National Insurance over the years, but, as thing stand, I'll be better of resigning along with our lass, default on the mortgage and, having two young girls, I already know the Council will have to house us.

You voted Tory did n`t you?

[jucyberry]

Not so Dave, that might happen in the Daily Mail world, but in real life, they would say you have made yourself unemployed... No benefit for x ammount of weeks....

you've defaulted on the mortgage.. Once again you have deliberately made yourself homeless... That puts you at the bottom of the housing list, when you move up a little you just might get into seperate hostels or B&B's....

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

if you studying something worthwile then the tuitions fees shouldent put anyone off. it is the people who go and study stupid subjects who will have to face up to the real world a bit sooner education educastion and then some more education is just delaying the inevatable of actually having to get a job and having to work hard. at my work we've had people applying for minimum wage jobs who have degrees in english language and history and i would be there boss and i left school at 15 what a waste of time

That depends on your outlook, do you go to university for an education solely or for all the other things it brings with it?  Whilst you were working from that age I was doing my work experience in Orlando, Florida

I could have taken my career without uni, but I always wanted to go, had a good time and was the first in my family to get a degree.  Just what I wanted to do, everyone is different.

[BillyStubbsTears]

You need to check your economic history. Labour always without fail overspend wildly. They always leave behind a huge financial mess for the Tories to clear up.

Jesus wept Mick, are you still peddling this facile shite?

It might help if you got your facts straight for once. Have a look at some numbers of UK Debt-to-GDP ratio since the War



Now zoom in to the last 40 years


So. The 45-51 Labour Govt significantly reduced debt as a proportion of GDP. So did the 64-70 Labour Govt. The 74-79 Labour Govt didn;t increase debt to GDP. In 2007, before the world economy fell off a cliff and EVERY major Western country's debt sky-rocketed, Labour had a debt-to GDP ratio lower than at any time since before the First World War, other than for a brief spell at the end of the 80s (and THAT didn't last). Labour has NOT had a record of being reckless over-spenders. The facts are there in those graphs.

If you want to be taken seriously (which I doubt, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt) then get your facts straight before you start spouting your pub-bore opinions.

[The L J Monk]

if you studying something worthwile then the tuitions fees shouldent put anyone off. it is the people who go and study stupid subjects who will have to face up to the real world a bit sooner education educastion and then some more education is just delaying the inevatable of actually having to get a job and having to work hard. at my work we've had people applying for minimum wage jobs who have degrees in english language and history and i would be there boss and i left school at 15 what a waste of time

Are you saying that you don't have a degree in English Language? I can scarcely believe it.

[Thinwhiteduke]

You voted Tory did n`t you?

You know what? I did...so no need to rub it in...if I could knock  some sense into my own skull I would do!

Whats that saying? "Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me".....It won't happen again.
   

[Thinwhiteduke]

Not so Dave, that might happen in the Daily Mail world, but in real life, they would say you have made yourself unemployed... No benefit for x ammount of weeks....

you've defaulted on the mortgage.. Once again you have deliberately made yourself homeless... That puts you at the bottom of the housing list, when you move up a little you just might get into seperate hostels or B&B's....

Us and the Kids would just have to sleep in Cardboard boxes under theshelter of the entrance to the Frenchgate centre then eh Debs?

[jucyberry]

yup. pretty much so Dave.....the irony of it all is, thanks to the government backed witch hunt perpeturated by the media there is a false image of a benefits utopia that just doesn't exist... or if it does then I have never seen it anyway.

The extreme cases peddled in the mail of families with a brood of kids are just that, the extreme..I know they exist, but they are the minority not the majority.

I've seen life from that side and it is far from an easy ride..
When the kids turned 16 I was working, as a single parent i recieved working families tax credit, and housing benefit..In  a matter of a few months my income dropped by nearly £600 a month..And yes I was working full time, I have been since Stace was nine.. Running a home, paying full rent and council tax on just over £700 a month isn't best fun, but we have a roof over our heads and food on the table.

funnily enough , when I was married (to a man who was a ,compulsive spender with no thought to how the bills would be paid) we had a visit from the council bailiff.. i've never forgotten what he said..'the more a person has, the more he wants and the bigger the debts. It is far better to have nothing. Once your spending power increases so does your chances of getting into trouble.'

There is an incredible amount of peace to be had from craving nothing.

As for this government, well.. bunch of out of touch upper crust tory numpties..

[mjdgreg]

T

o be fair you posted a non fact saying that the Tories hiked tuition fees to 3,000 quid.  That's wrong it was Labour who did that whilst also cutting the money available for students whilst in university.  I'd much prefer the new system even though fees are much higher.  More assistance while at uni (when you need it most) and paying it back at a higher level.  Under the fee period I went in at I pay back some of my loan on the wage I'm on now.  Under the Tories new method I wouldn't be paying anything back at the moment.  Labour were for the working class when it suited them.  I went through uni with 2 jobs whilst my friends had none because their richer parents paid for them.  I was entitled to the same amount of money as my friends who got money from parents (which barely covered my rent let alone anything else).  I've no issue with that it's fine, but for labour to say they helped out poorer students is ludicrous they didn't.

As for the double dip well it is that, and perhaps it was somewhat inevitable.  Realistically given the cuts in government spending that was going to have an impact (government spending forms part of the calculation).  Labour wouldn't have seen this becuase they'd have kept spending up right now and thus artificially shown growth in the economy.  What they forget is we have to start cutting becuase we spend far more than we have.  Just look at their proposal of cutting VAT.  They state that would allow for growth and still yield similar values to the treasury.  Simply put it wouldn't.  The amount of growth required to generate the same value of funding is nigh on impossible.

Look at Milliband on the higher tax bracket, he's well against it now, but when asked if he would implement it if he was in power his answer - well we'd have to look at it at the time. HE wouldn't state that because he knows he simply couldn't do it.  It's all very easy to say you disagree with what's happening Ed, but what would you do?  The times of unlimited spending will end and I'm yet to see how Labour can deal with that.

What a well thought out sensible post. Well done. You obviously have a brain and know how to use it unlike some around here.

[mjdgreg]

if you studying something worthwile then the tuitions fees shouldent put anyone off. it is the people who go and study stupid subjects who will have to face up to the real world a bit sooner education educastion and then some more education is just delaying the inevatable of actually having to get a job and having to work hard. at my work we've had people applying for minimum wage jobs who have degrees in english language and history and i would be there boss and i left school at 15 what a waste of time

Well said.

[bobjimwilly]

I see you're ignoring the facts and stats above? 

[mjdgreg]

Why are the Tories not getting rid of these 'Non Jobs' then ans instead threatening the jobs of essential services such as care for adults with severe learning difficulites.

Its alright the Tosser in this thread saying 'everyone should live within their means', Ive took a 3% cut this year and my Pension scheme has closed, my Partner at DMBC is about to be hit with a 2% cut. These Tory bas**rds have more or less stripped our Tax credits to nothing whilst giving the great unwashed a 5% rise in their benefits.

I do live within our means, we've never asked for anything from the state, we have never claimed benefits...Id like mjdgreg to explain how we continue to do so when we had no disposable income anyway and that has now we've been hit by cuts.

This Government doesnt give a flying one about middle england, the bread and butter of this nation, its cares solely about the top 10-15%.

Shortly they may have to find themselves housing me, providing my kids with free school meals and I'll grind out every feasible benefit I can claim - Im entitled to it, Ive paid my share of Tax and National Insurance over the years, but, as thing stand, I'll be better of resigning along with our lass, default on the mortgage and, having two young girls, I already know the Council will have to house us.

The Tories are getting rid on non jobs. It's unfortunate that there are also some 'proper' jobs going as well. This is mainly at local council level where the bosses are looking after themselves and not the front line. Labour controlled Doncaster being a fine example of this.

I'm sorry you're struggling financially, but You need to realise that this is Labour's fault for the wasteful overspending. The Tories are by no means perfect but they are a hell of a lot better than that bunch of clueless clowns. They are only implementing cuts because we are broke thanks to Labour.

We're still borrowing far too much so I'm sorry to say things are going to get a hell of a lot worse before they get any better. We're talking decades before we get any improvement not years thanks to the cataclysmic damage Labour has done to the country's finances.

[River Don]

How did Labour manage to bankrupt the entire western world?

No-one is claiming this. Gordon was quite happy just to bankrupt the UK.

Something of a coincidence that all the western nations had incompetent governments at the same time as the global financial collapse, isn't it?

[mjdgreg]

Something of a coincidence that all the western nations had incompetent governments at the same time as the global financial collapse, isn't it?

I think you'll find that not all western nations have suffered a financial catastrophe. Only the ones with a similar spend spend spend ethos like the previous Labour government. I'm afraid, (unlike me) you have provided a non fact.

[donnyroversfc]

I dont know or care about politics but i just want to say, if i was a woman i would marry Madmick/mjdgreg!! Obviously a man of his knowledge, good looks and charisma would be well out of my league though.

Carry on as you were 

[mjdgreg]

In 2007, before the world economy fell off a cliff and EVERY major Western country's debt sky-rocketed, Labour had a debt-to GDP ratio lower than at any time since before the First World War, other than for a brief spell at the end of the 80s (and THAT didn't last).

Bobjimwilly, it would pay to ignore silly Billy's posts as they are a total distortion of the facts. How he can make out that Labour were competent is totally ludicrous. Ask yourself 'would we be in the horrendous mess we're in if Labour were competent'. I think we all know the answer to that one.

There are statistics and damned lies. Silly Billy plucks out the odd stat that suits his weird view of reality such as ' Labour had a debt-to- GDP ratio lower than at any time since before the First World War'. He uses this to paint a picture of Labour competency.

He ignores the private debt that consumers have built up (encouraged by Labour). He ignores the housing bubble. He ignores the massive expansion of the non productive part of the economy (the public sector). He ignores the PFI fiasco. He ignores..... I could go on but hopefully by now you get my drift.

Take my advice and ignore silly Billy's posts as he is a huge Labour supporter and would argue black is white if he thought he could get away with it. Unfortunately he has met his match with me as I can easily destroy his weak arguments.

[mjdgreg]

I dont know or care about politics but i just want to say, if i was a woman i would marry mjdgreg!! Obviously a man of his knowledge, good looks and charisma would be well out of my league though.

Carry on as you were

Unfortunately as you may have guessed I am already taken. My wife has just advised me that she considers herself to be the luckiest woman in the world!

[River Don]

Something of a coincidence that all the western nations had incompetent governments at the same time as the global financial collapse, isn't it?

I think you'll find that not all western nations have suffered a financial catastrophe. Only the ones with a similar spend spend spend ethos like the previous Labour government. I'm afraid, (unlike me) you have provided a non fact.

Only the ones with natural resources they can draw on, like Australia and Norway.

The problem is debt but there is far, far more private debt than public. Total debt is something like 500% GDP isn't it? The largest part of that is held by financial institutions. That's a result of lax financial regs, which all these centrist governments have allowed.

Growth is the only solution but I'm afraid we won't be seeing that.

[mjdgreg]

The problem is debt but there is far, far more private debt than public. Total debt is something like 500% GDP isn't it? The largest part of that is held by financial institutions. That's a result of lax financial regs, which all these centrist governments have allowed.

Growth is the only solution but I'm afraid we won't be seeing that.

A very sensible post. Unlike you, silly Billy always ignores private debt when he tries to paint Labour as competent

[River Don]

The problem is debt but there is far, far more private debt than public. Total debt is something like 500% GDP isn't it? The largest part of that is held by financial institutions. That's a result of lax financial regs, which all these centrist governments have allowed.

Growth is the only solution but I'm afraid we won't be seeing that.

A very sensible post. Unlike you, silly Billy always ignores private debt when he tries to paint Labour as competent

But the Conservatives wouldn't have done much different. They were always pushing for lighter regulation. They largely endorsed Labours spending plans.

This crisis has been a longtime in the making and I blame both parties equally.

[mjdgreg]

But the Conservatives wouldn't have done much different. They were always pushing for lighter regulation. They largely endorsed Labours spending plans.

This crisis has been a longtime in the making and I blame both parties equally.

Labour inherited a sound economy from the Tories all those years ago. If the Tories could have held onto power, I think we would be far better placed now than we are after 13 years of Labour misrule.

When in opposition they did partly endorse Labour's spending plans, but ultimately Labour have to take the blame as they were the ones in power. It is far too early to start blaming the current government because it will take many years to get over Labour's profligacy (if we ever do).

[mjdgreg]

Running a home, paying full rent and council tax on just over £700 a month isn't best fun, but we have a roof over our heads and food on the table.

I think you are doing remarkably well to hold it all together on such a low income. I take my hat off to you and hope things improve for you in the near future.

[River Don]

But the Conservatives wouldn't have done much different. They were always pushing for lighter regulation. They largely endorsed Labours spending plans.

This crisis has been a longtime in the making and I blame both parties equally.

Labour inherited a sound economy from the Tories all those years ago. If the Tories could have held onto power, I think we would be far better placed now than we are after 13 years of Labour misrule.

When in opposition they did partly endorse Labour's spending plans, but ultimately Labour have to take the blame as they were the ones in power. It is far too early to start blaming the current government because it will take many years to get over Labour's profligacy (if we ever do).

We can never know. I strongly suspect things wouldn't have been much different given the conservatives laid the foundations with the big bang and there enthusiasm for light regulation, their closeness to the financial institutions. And given the experience of other countries, such as the USA who had republican governments throughout the great boom.

[mjdgreg]

We can never know. I strongly suspect things wouldn't have been much different given the conservatives laid the foundations with the big bang and there enthusiasm for light regulation. And given the experience of other countries, such as the USA who had republican governments throughout the great boom.

The Tories haven't been brilliant but Labour have been a total disaster. On the balance of their previous records I have concluded that the Tories are the lesser of the two evils.

[River Don]

We can never know. I strongly suspect things wouldn't have been much different given the conservatives laid the foundations with the big bang and there enthusiasm for light regulation. And given the experience of other countries, such as the USA who had republican governments throughout the great boom.

The Tories haven't been brilliant but Labour have been a total disaster. On the balance of their previous records I have concluded that the Tories are the lesser of the two evils.

I don't know how you can conclude that, given both parties have been fighting for the same centre ground. There really hasn't been much to chose between them. At best I think we might have hade a little less government debt and a little more private debt.

One thing's for sure, I don't have much faith in any of them to sort out the problems we face.

[RobTheRover]

The Tories are not interested in us up North simple as, I am sure given half the chance they would happily put up a big wall half way down the country and leave us to fend for ourselves!

Hear hear!  It doesn't stop most of North Yorkshire and the East Riding voting for them, though.

BTW, Mick's cut and paste skills have been sorely amateurish in this thread.  Poor show.

[mjdgreg]

It's worth reminding those of you that pin all the blame on the global financial crisis for our debt problems what Labour's record was before we faced this situation.

Between May 1997 and April 2008 the amount of money spent on public services went up by 80 per cent (55 per cent when inflation is taken into account). £269 billion more on health, £185 billion on education, £80 billion on policing and justice, a massive £343 billion on social security benefits and we can add on another £350 billion more for defence, housing, the EU and other services. All in all Labour spent comfortably over £1 trillion after inflation is taken into account. That is the equivalent to around £50,000 per household.

So what did we get for our extra trillion that they spent on our behalf? Did the politicians and civil service bosses selflessly burn the midnight oil and labour to bring us schools and hospitals that were the best in the world? Did we get a safe society with dynamic effective policing and a falling crime rate? Did we get a simplified and fair tax system and contented pensioners whiling away their twilight years in financial security? Did we get increased social mobility through greater opportunities for the less well-off and balanced and stable immigration that benefited both our country and the new arrivals?

Or did Labour oversee a situation where the politicians and bureaucrats squandered most of our hard-earned cash in a sorry spectacle of ever-shifting policies, apparent stupidity and inveterate incompetence unequalled in British history? In doing so did they create a political and managerial culture where mistakes were never admitted, failings were always covered up and mind-boggling bungling was rewarded by promotion, honours and generous inflation-proofed pensions for which we all have to pay?

I think we all know the answers to the above questions.

[mjdgreg]

Here is an excellent blog pointing out the differences in the previous Labour and Tory government. All you youngsters that can't remember the previous Tory government take note and ignore all the Ed Balls bullshit.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danielhannan/100153640/a-recession-made-in-downing-street/