the Double Dip is here

[Filo]

Two years in power, two times in recession!

As forecast by so many, the austerity measures are not working and have choked the living daylights out of the economy!


No royal wedding to blame, no severe weather to blame, who or what are they going to blame next! Two years of butchery or no bearing fruit for the Tories! t**ts the lot of em!

[CusworthRovers]

As a side angle but relevant....TUITION FEES

To be fair this Government can all hang for me, and to be honest so can the previous Government and Majors Government too.

All these absolute shits who researched it to make it feasable, imposed it, raised it higher and continue with it and support it should all hang their heads in shame.

That Lib Dem Leader/puppet ought to be doubly ashamed of himself

[mjdgreg]

Those of you with short memories need to be reminded that it is Labour that is to blame. Being in a mild recession is a small price to pay for the last government's profligacy. Spending (and wasting) money is not the solution it's the problem.

We need to start living within our means and stop passing on our debts to future generations. Austerity and a mild recession are prices well worth paying. Just be grateful we don't live in Spain, Greece, Ireland, Italy, Portugal or the Netherlands where they are paying a much higher price than we are for their overspending binge. If Labour were still in power we'd be basket cases like them as well.

[CusworthRovers]

Is that like how these Governments are creating a generation of people in debt who want to study to make a future for themselves only to be saddled with a huge debt at the end.

Obviously Rupert, Tristram, Montague and co will have no such debt when they've finished their studies, as mummy and daddy will have paid it all for them.

I think your 'we shouldn't be passing on debt' is most apt, just ashame that that is exactly what they're doing.

[mjdgreg]

I think your 'we shouldn't be passing on debt' is most apt, just ashame that that is exactly what they're doing.

Who was it that introduced tuition fees? Oh yes, I remember, it was Labour! Whose fault is it that we've run out of money and now owe a vast fortune? Oh yes, I remember that was down to Labour too! Whose fault is it that tuition fees have had to rise? Yes once again we find it is Labour to blame.

It would be nice if there weren't any tuition fees but when we are borrowed up to our eyeballs then I'm afraid that thanks to Labour if you want a university education you are going to have to contribute.

Another example of Labour's debt burden being passed on to our children and our children's children.

[bobjimwilly]

At least unemployment isn't the highest it's been in 18 years. Oh, wait a min...

 

[MrFrost]

Two years in power, two times in recession!

As forecast by so many, the austerity measures are not working and have choked the living daylights out of the economy!


No royal wedding to blame, no severe weather to blame, who or what are they going to blame next! Two years of butchery or no bearing fruit for the Tories! t**ts the lot of em!

Weren't Labour in power at the time of the last recession.....

[mjdgreg]

At least unemployment isn't the highest it's been in 18 years. Oh, wait a min...

It started rising years ago under Labour. Their solution (which obviously didn't work but has had a large part to play in our current economic woes) was to keep people in education longer, massively expand the public sector and vastly increase the number of benefit claimants to mask true unemployment. The coalition are trying to undo this madness and create 'proper' jobs but this will take years. So it is no surprise unemployment is still going up. Once again Labour are to blame.

[Sprotyrover]

I would love to kick the living daylights out of Cameron and Osbourne, they are a pair of arrogant t**ts!!!.

However being a 'Times reader' I do recall an article some 18 years ago extolling the virtues of the British Pension set up which at that time was £600 Billion in the black and the envy of all Europe, non of the other member states having any funds stashed away at all!.

The same article then went on to warn that the new labour Government intended to increase the size of the public sector workforce by over 40% and that this would put a great deal of pressure on the Public sectors ability to pay pensions in the future!!

The same article also warned about Labours plans to raid the private pension schemes to fund these non jobs.

They did do and we all know what the outcome has been. 

[bobjimwilly]

Weren't Labour in power at the time of the last recession.....

If you mean the first recession that was caused by the global banking crisis that was out of Britains hands, yes. It was at the same time as the US, Japan and Germany, none of which are facing a double-dip recession.

[MrFrost]

Filo implied that there have been two recession's that have started during the colaition's reign. Not true.
Have to agree with everything mjdgreg has said here. The mistakes were made long before the banking crisis.

[River Don]

How did Labour manage to bankrupt the entire western world?

[CusworthRovers]

I think your 'we shouldn't be passing on debt' is most apt, just ashame that that is exactly what they're doing.

Who was it that introduced tuition fees? Oh yes, I remember, it was Labour! Whose fault is it that we've run out of money and now owe a vast fortune? Oh yes, I remember that was down to Labour too! Whose fault is it that tuition fees have had to rise? Yes once again we find it is Labour to blame.

It would be nice if there weren't any tuition fees but when we are borrowed up to our eyeballs then I'm afraid that thanks to Labour if you want a university education you are going to have to contribute.

Another example of Labour's debt burden being passed on to our children and our children's children.

I'm going to have to stop you there yooof

Tuition fees were Majors brainchild for starters. He was voted out before he could implement it. Yes Labour (like gimps) brought it in and should have stopped it there and then (as the party of the so called working class).
Labour had a rate of £1k
The Tory's soon oiked that up to £3k. In your words 'they did this to pay for Labours debt'. That is a pathetic statement. What they have done is butcher the working class kids to pay for debt that's been around a long time and to keep the rich rich.

You said 'it would be nice to pay for tuition'. That's at last something sensible you've said.  Let's give all the kids a fair chance, eh?

[mjdgreg]

However being a 'Times reader' I do recall an article some 18 years ago extolling the virtues of the British Pension set up which at that time was £600 Billion in the black and the envy of all Europe, non of the other member states having any funds stashed away at all!.

The same article then went on to warn that the new labour Government intended to increase the size of the public sector workforce by over 40% and that this would put a great deal of pressure on the Public sectors ability to pay pensions in the future!!

The same article also warned about Labours plans to raid the private pension schemes to fund these non jobs.

They did do and we all know what the outcome has been.

What a pleasure it is to read a sensible post. Far too many people simplify things down to 'I'm working class, so I'll always vote Labour whatever mess they make of the economy because the Tories only care about the rich'. Way too simplistic but unfortunately a widely held view.

[mjdgreg]

If you mean the first recession that was caused by the global banking crisis that was out of Britains hands, yes. It was at the same time as the US, Japan and Germany, none of which are facing a double-dip recession.

Mr Frost is right. The mistakes were made long before the banking crisis. This crisis merely exacerbated the situation. Who failed to regulate the banks? Yes that was Labour. Gordon Brown believed in 'light touch regulation'. What a monumental mistake. He gave the FSA control of the banks when they were patently not set up to carry out this duty.

Whichever way you look at it Labour (and Gordon Brown in particular) were grossly incompetent.

[rtid88]

But it is this Government that is giving £50Billion of our money to the IMF!! Chuffing unbelievable!!

[Filo]

If you mean the first recession that was caused by the global banking crisis that was out of Britains hands, yes. It was at the same time as the US, Japan and Germany, none of which are facing a double-dip recession.

Mr Frost is right. The mistakes were made long before the banking crisis. This crisis merely exacerbated the situation. Who failed to regulate the banks? Yes that was Labour. Gordon Brown believed in 'light touch regulation'. What a monumental mistake. He gave the FSA control of the banks when they were patently not set up to carry out this duty.

Whichever way you look at it Labour (and Gordon Brown in particular) were grossly incompetent.

You might want to ask yourself who De-regulated them in the first place?

[mjdgreg]

But it is this Government that is giving £50Billion of our money to the IMF!! Chuffing unbelievable!!

They're not 'giving' it to them. They are merely stating that they will cough it up if it is needed in the future. A big difference.

You may ask if it is wise to offer this money in the first place. My view is that it is a wise move because we drowning in so much debt that it wouldn't take much for us to be going cap in hand to the IMF for a bailout ourselves.

Imagine what their reaction would be if we wanted to borrow money off them when we had refused to contribute in the past. The money we 'cough up' would only be a loan anyway so it's not as if we'd be throwing money away.

[mjdgreg]

You might want to ask yourself who De-regulated them in the first place?

I'm no great supporter of the Tories. However I do know that they manage the economy a lot better than Labour ever do. Whenever Labour get kicked out they always without fail leave the Tories with a gigantic financial mess to clear up.

This time around they have really taken the biscuit. Even if the Tories did initially de-regulate the banks, Gordon Brown only had 13 years to rectify this mistake. What did he do? He de-regulated them to the point where they knew they could take massive gambles safe in the knowledge that if they lost Gordon would bail them out. What a plonker.

[mjdgreg]

How did Labour manage to bankrupt the entire western world?

No-one is claiming this. Gordon was quite happy just to bankrupt the UK.

[mjdgreg]

I'm going to have to stop you there yooof

Tuition fees were Majors brainchild for starters. He was voted out before he could implement it. Yes Labour (like gimps) brought it in and should have stopped it there and then (as the party of the so called working class).
Labour had a rate of £1k
The Tory's soon oiked that up to £3k. In your words 'they did this to pay for Labours debt'. That is a pathetic statement. What they have done is butcher the working class kids to pay for debt that's been around a long time and to keep the rich rich.

You said 'it would be nice to pay for tuition'. That's at last something sensible you've said.  Let's give all the kids a fair chance, eh?

You need to check your economic history. Labour always without fail overspend wildly. They always leave behind a huge financial mess for the Tories to clear up. When they try and sort things out all we ever hear from Labour supporters is that the solution is to spend (and waste) even more money that they haven't got.

It is extreme folly to think that the way to solve a gigantic debt problem is to borrow even more money.

[bobjimwilly]

It is extreme folly to think that the way to solve a gigantic debt problem is to borrow even more money.

Who said Labour were going to borrow more money? What they were proposing is smaller, sustainable cuts over a longer period of time.

The question surely is: how can you pay of a national debt by increasing unemployment and reducing tax income?

[River Don]

If you mean the first recession that was caused by the global banking crisis that was out of Britains hands, yes. It was at the same time as the US, Japan and Germany, none of which are facing a double-dip recession.

Mr Frost is right. The mistakes were made long before the banking crisis. This crisis merely exacerbated the situation. Who failed to regulate the banks? Yes that was Labour. Gordon Brown believed in 'light touch regulation'. What a monumental mistake. He gave the FSA control of the banks when they were patently not set up to carry out this duty.

Whichever way you look at it Labour (and Gordon Brown in particular) were grossly incompetent.

You might want to ask yourself who De-regulated them in the first place?

And why the Conservative opposition felt financial regs were still too tight before 2008.

[mjdgreg]

Who said Labour were going to borrow more money? What they were proposing is smaller, sustainable cuts over a longer period of time.

The question surely is: how can you pay of a national debt by increasing unemployment and reducing tax income?

You've obviously fallen for Ed Balls bullshit. I've got news for you. Our National Debt is so massive it's now virtually impossible to pay it off. We're now having to borrow many billions just to pay the interest on what Labour previously borrowed. They created lots of non jobs in the public sector and these are mainly the jobs that are having to go (and rightly so).

It's like me maxing out a credit card and then using another one to pay off the interest. We are very close to the whole economy totally collapsing under the huge weight of debt that Labour have racked up.

Lets get one thing clear. The Tories are still having to borrow a lot of money despite the cuts. They are having to borrow so much that our National Debt will have doubled by the end of this parliament.

The so called austerity measures that they have introduced are merely scratching the surface of the monumental debt Labour left behind. All they have managed to do with their so called 'savage' cuts is to slow down the increase in our already massive National Debt.

So it stands to reason that if Labour were going to introduce cuts more slowly then they would have to borrow even more money than the Tories to pay for this.
It was over borrowing in the first place that got us into this mess. Their solution to borrow even more is laughable.

We need to harden up and take the austerity measures and start to live within our means. It's time to stop letting the politicians spend money they haven't got and then pass the debt on to future generations for short term political gain. The reason Labour make my piss boil on this subject is because they are easily the worst offenders out of all the political parties when it comes to spending money they haven't got.

[bobjimwilly]

We need to harden up and take the austerity measures and start to live within our means.

Takes one to know one about falling for bullshit! I've lived within my means all my working life, like many millions of others. The Torys, however, are now making it virtually impossible to do so! My pay is frozen, inflation means Im earning less, it costs more to get to work, energy prices are on the up, my weekly shop costs more, and you have the audacity to suggest I should be living within my means! 

[mjdgreg]

Takes one to know one about falling for bullshit! I've lived within my means all my working life, like many millions of others. The Torys, however, are now making it virtually impossible to do so! My pay is frozen, inflation means Im earning less, it costs more to get to work, energy prices are on the up, my weekly shop costs more, and you have the audacity to suggest I should be living within my means!

You've obviously fallen for Ed Balls bullshit. Why are you taking the simplistic view that it is all the Tories fault that you are having to tighten your belt. Is it because you are working class and your mum and dad were working class so you have always voted Labour and always will do?

Have you read any of the previous posts? Do you absolve Labour of any responsibility for the current situation? Are you so ill informed that just because the Tories are in power now then it must be all their fault?

Do you think you shouldn't be living within your means? No wonder you are a Labour supporter as you clearly don't. So what is your solution? Borrow more money (that's if anyone is daft enough to lend it to us) so you can keep or get back to your previous standard of living and leave future generations to pick up the bill.

You need to harden up and stop being so selfish and take responsibility for your own life and make the necessary cutbacks because thanks to Labour we have all got used to living beyond our means. It's time we wised up and stopped shunting our profligacy onto people that aren't even born yet.

[CusworthRovers]

I'm going to have to stop you there yooof

Tuition fees were Majors brainchild for starters. He was voted out before he could implement it. Yes Labour (like gimps) brought it in and should have stopped it there and then (as the party of the so called working class).
Labour had a rate of £1k
The Tory's soon oiked that up to £3k. In your words 'they did this to pay for Labours debt'. That is a pathetic statement. What they have done is butcher the working class kids to pay for debt that's been around a long time and to keep the rich rich.

You said 'it would be nice to pay for tuition'. That's at last something sensible you've said.  Let's give all the kids a fair chance, eh?

You need to check your economic history. Labour always without fail overspend wildly. They always leave behind a huge financial mess for the Tories to clear up. When they try and sort things out all we ever hear from Labour supporters is that the solution is to spend (and waste) even more money that they haven't got.

It is extreme folly to think that the way to solve a gigantic debt problem is to borrow even more money.

I've got a good game.

Let's post non-facts. Let people correct you. Let's not acknowledge you were wrong. Let's simply continue to post the same shite and steer every answer to the same shite, thus avoiding the wrong bits. 

It's at this point CR decided to withdraw from this debate.

[mjdgreg]

I've got a good game.

Let's post non-facts. Let people correct you. Let's not acknowledge you were wrong. Let's simply continue to post the same shite and steer every answer to the same shite, thus avoiding the wrong bits. 

It's at this point CR decided to withdraw from this debate.

I'd appreciate it if you could show one non fact. I'd also appreciate it if you could show where I have been corrected (with supporting evidence) and not just someone disagreeing with me without backing up their argument. Show me where I have been wrong.

No wonder you have withdrawn from the debate because you can't do any of what I've requested. If you think it is morally right that future generations should pick up the bill for our current 'living beyond our means' standard of living then it is you that is talking absolute shite.

[rtid88]

I think you will find it is only the latest £10Billion that is a loan the other £40 billion we have given to them!

The Tories are not interested in us up North simple as, I am sure given half the chance they would happily put up a big wall half way down the country and leave us to fend for ourselves!

This country is f**ked and no clearly it is not solely this governments fault but they are in no means not to blame! It is every government that has been in control of this country since day one! Politicians always have and always will be bent and corrupt and will always look out for number one! We can't control our borders, we can't control the bankers from spending, we can't control the politicians from fiddling, we can't provide enough jobs for the unemployed, soon we won't be able to afford petrol for our cars, will struggle to buy enough food to feed our familys, the list could go on!!

But old Gideon & Cameron are two of the worst and simply have no idea how a normal working class person lives due to their upbringing! They can sit up in their castles under their pots of money!! Without a care in the world!!

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

I'm going to have to stop you there yooof

Tuition fees were Majors brainchild for starters. He was voted out before he could implement it. Yes Labour (like gimps) brought it in and should have stopped it there and then (as the party of the so called working class).
Labour had a rate of £1k
The Tory's soon oiked that up to £3k. In your words 'they did this to pay for Labours debt'. That is a pathetic statement. What they have done is butcher the working class kids to pay for debt that's been around a long time and to keep the rich rich.

You said 'it would be nice to pay for tuition'. That's at last something sensible you've said.  Let's give all the kids a fair chance, eh?

You need to check your economic history. Labour always without fail overspend wildly. They always leave behind a huge financial mess for the Tories to clear up. When they try and sort things out all we ever hear from Labour supporters is that the solution is to spend (and waste) even more money that they haven't got.

It is extreme folly to think that the way to solve a gigantic debt problem is to borrow even more money.

I've got a good game.

Let's post non-facts. Let people correct you. Let's not acknowledge you were wrong. Let's simply continue to post the same shite and steer every answer to the same shite, thus avoiding the wrong bits. 

It's at this point CR decided to withdraw from this debate.

To be fair you posted a non fact saying that the Tories hiked tuition fees to 3,000 quid.  That's wrong it was Labour who did that whilst also cutting the money available for students whilst in university.  I'd much prefer the new system even though fees are much higher.  More assistance while at uni (when you need it most) and paying it back at a higher level.  Under the fee period I went in at I pay back some of my loan on the wage I'm on now.  Under the Tories new method I wouldn't be paying anything back at the moment.  Labour were for the working class when it suited them.  I went through uni with 2 jobs whilst my friends had none because their richer parents paid for them.  I was entitled to the same amount of money as my friends who got money from parents (which barely covered my rent let alone anything else).  I've no issue with that it's fine, but for labour to say they helped out poorer students is ludicrous they didn't.

As for the double dip well it is that, and perhaps it was somewhat inevitable.  Realistically given the cuts in government spending that was going to have an impact (government spending forms part of the calculation).  Labour wouldn't have seen this becuase they'd have kept spending up right now and thus artificially shown growth in the economy.  What they forget is we have to start cutting becuase we spend far more than we have.  Just look at their proposal of cutting VAT.  They state that would allow for growth and still yield similar values to the treasury.  Simply put it wouldn't.  The amount of growth required to generate the same value of funding is nigh on impossible.

Look at Milliband on the higher tax bracket, he's well against it now, but when asked if he would implement it if he was in power his answer - well we'd have to look at it at the time. HE wouldn't state that because he knows he simply couldn't do it.  It's all very easy to say you disagree with what's happening Ed, but what would you do?  The times of unlimited spending will end and I'm yet to see how Labour can deal with that.