Sponsorship for treatment table.

[newyankee]

 I understand that the treatment table at Cantley Park is to be renamed after Shelton Martis, the club is looking for someone to sponsor the table. Might be a good thing for Shelton to do as it could be a way of returning some of his contract money. Maybe he doesn't feel as magnanimous as George Friend.

 

[steve@dcfd]

Lets all keep having a dig at the players. It was said by our fitness coach when players return from injury they will be ready to play. Unfortunately it's not the case with Shelton, so it's up to the club and player to identify why and sort it out. Dean said the playing staff would be fitter under his regime in a majority of cases that is true, therefore if one player continues with injury then this must be investigated and if possible sorted by all concerned.

[newyankee]

 My point Steve was that as you say our medical and fitness staff is better than it has ever been, players ARE coming back and playing through injuries which in the past would not have happened. Shelton is one of those on an existing contract and as such will be earning more than the newcomers.
  It seems that there should be a part of a contract where players with his type of injury history can be released and the contract made null and void as happens in the NFL in America. Maybe it's because we don't have a set number on our "roster" as they do.

   A long term injured player, unless one the "STARS" of the team, is let go to be able to bring in a replacement and keep the salary cap level. I know Dean can't do anything about Shelton, but it must be galling to know he has done what he has, to bring in good players on small money, to have to pay a previously contracted player more to sit out games.

[FuzzyDuck]

Dean said the playing staff would be fitter under his regime in a majority of cases that is true, therefore if one player continues with injury then this must be investigated and if possible sorted by all concerned.

I agree with the last bit of that but are we sure players are fitter under Deano?  At the moment we have Jamie McCoombe and Kyle Bennett out with long-term injuries (Kyle perhaps as a result of Deano not allowing him to come off when the opposition were already down to 10 men and we were leading 2:0).

It's only November and we've only played 20 competitive games.  When we had our injury crises, they occurred around February.  I hope you're right, but I'd say regarding whether the team is fitter/less injury prone, at the moment we don't know.

[wilts rover]

Jamie McCombe has a hairline fracture of his back, which
a) doesnt sound like something I would wish on anybody
b) I would find difficult to relate to any fitness training at Rovers

[nortikorner]

Hope its not made of Glass  we have enough

[newyankee]

 One thing that might solve this issue in terms of paying large wages when a player is injured could be insurance.  Maybe there is a scheme whereby clubs could retrieve some or all of a players wages when he is not able to play. 

    Not being in the insurance business, I don't know if, due to the large weekly amounts many players get, would mean that premiums would be excessively high.

   

[Sammy Chung was King]

I Think progress has been made on the injury front,under Sean at times the injured were in double figures,most of the injuries this season are wear and tear injuries,through the solid concentration of games that have been played,having a smallish squad has caught up with us a little bit,though the addition of Clingan and Griffin will help,Dean has managed the size of squad he has pretty well,it's hard to rest players because every game is a big game,there's more positives than negatives,the team spirit and working for each other is there,i don't think you could get a more honest bunch,we are in a bad run at the minute,which to be honest anybody who watches football knows most teams have them in a season.
It is very worrying with Shelton Martis,he seems to come back from one injury,and then picks up another niggley one a few weeks later,it must frustrate him,i don't know him as a person,but if it was me i'd want to be out on the pitch,i hope whatever the injuries are that he keeps getting sort themselves out,because he could be a major asset to us,if he was not a good player nobody would care if he was injured or not,obviously the problem hasn't been located because he keeps breaking down,he isn't a lot of use to us at the minute,we need him on the pitch,on a lighter note a sponsor for the treatment room,Slumberlux,Silent night maybe?,i hope he get's fit very soon,we do need him.

[newyankee]

 Thanks Sammy for realising I was trying to add a bit of humour to a possible serious situation, particularly with Shelton.

[Wellred]

Dean said the playing staff would be fitter under his regime in a majority of cases that is true, therefore if one player continues with injury then this must be investigated and if possible sorted by all concerned.

I agree with the last bit of that but are we sure players are fitter under Deano?  At the moment we have Jamie McCoombe and Kyle Bennett out with long-term injuries (Kyle perhaps as a result of Deano not allowing him to come off when the opposition were already down to 10 men and we were leading 2:0).

It's only November and we've only played 20 competitive games.  When we had our injury crises, they occurred around February.  I hope you're right, but I'd say regarding whether the team is fitter/less injury prone, at the moment we don't know.

Wasn't Kyle Bennett's long term injury done in training?

[FuzzyDuck]

It was reported that Kyle's long-term injury was done in training although I'm not sure that's the whole truth.  Kyle's last match was away at Notts County.  At the end of that, he indicated he wanted to come off but unfortunately all three of our subs were on the pitch.  Deano refused to allow him to come off and in his post-match said that players came off too easily these days.  In his day they ran it off and his message to physios was that players should run it off.  It's in the audio on this link.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20014120

Kyle was not allowed to leave the pitch for those closing minutes because we would have been reduced to 10 men.  At the time we were 2:0 up and County only had 10 men anyway.  Kyle hasn't played since.  Is that coincidence or was being macho a bad decision from Dean?

On the instruction in general, I'm in two minds.  On the one hand I've seen plenty of professional players asking to be substituted when they didn't appear to be injured.  On the other hand there's Steve Brooker, who's career was ruined by Bristol City playing him when they shouldn't.  The great Tommy Smith is now a cripple due to his professional football career.  In Tommy's day, that's how it was.  The technology to accurately diagnose and prognose wasn't there.  These days it is.

On the abilities of the fitness staff, I think it's one of the toughest things in the game to measure.  The best way would be to look at the yardage being covered by the players per game.  If that drops then the players are probably losing condition.  The problem is that those stats aren't available to us (are they available to anyone in league 1?)

In SOD's day he had bad luck (Dunk fouling Sharp, Hayter's injury the same game), latent problems never really sorted out (Stocky, Shelton) and a plague of groin injuries.  If the current fitness team have got to the bottom of the groin injuries, that's a good thing.  I don't think anyone can say whether or not they have  for sure just yet.  I also think its very difficult for us the fans to be able to make statements about the success /failure of the fitness teams as the evidence for it is just too subtle for us to tell for sure.

[Wellred]

It was reported that Kyle's long-term injury was done in training although I'm not sure that's the whole truth.  Kyle's last match was away at Notts County.  At the end of that, he indicated he wanted to come off but unfortunately all three of our subs were on the pitch.  Deano refused to allow him to come off and in his post-match said that players came off too easily these days.  In his day they ran it off and his message to physios was that players should run it off.  It's in the audio on this link.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20014120

Kyle was not allowed to leave the pitch for those closing minutes because we would have been reduced to 10 men.  At the time we were 2:0 up and County only had 10 men anyway.  Kyle hasn't played since.  Is that coincidence or was being macho a bad decision from Dean?

On the instruction in general, I'm in two minds.  On the one hand I've seen plenty of professional players asking to be substituted when they didn't appear to be injured.  On the other hand there's Steve Brooker, who's career was ruined by Bristol City playing him when they shouldn't.  The great Tommy Smith is now a cripple due to his professional football career.  In Tommy's day, that's how it was.  The technology to accurately diagnose and prognose wasn't there.  These days it is.

On the abilities of the fitness staff, I think it's one of the toughest things in the game to measure.  The best way would be to look at the yardage being covered by the players per game.  If that drops then the players are probably losing condition.  The problem is that those stats aren't available to us (are they available to anyone in league 1?)

In SOD's day he had bad luck (Dunk fouling Sharp, Hayter's injury the same game), latent problems never really sorted out (Stocky, Shelton) and a plague of groin injuries.  If the current fitness team have got to the bottom of the groin injuries, that's a good thing.  I don't think anyone can say whether or not they have  for sure just yet.  I also think its very difficult for us the fans to be able to make statements about the success /failure of the fitness teams as the evidence for it is just too subtle for us to tell for sure.

I was at the Notts County game and he didn't seem too badly injured. I have no reason to believe that Dean would say he was injured in training if that was not the case.
I cannot understand your cynicism in inferring it was coincidence or a bad decision by DS.

[FuzzyDuck]

Well we're all entitled to our opinion and on this one it can't be proven either way (at least not by us).  It could of course be a bit of both.  Kyle picked up a knock against Notts County that was subsequently aggrevated in training (probably the most likely)

Whatever, in the circumstances (small squad, 2:0 up, opposition already reduced to 10 men, not long remaining) I thought the decision to leave Kyle on the pitch too risky.

[MachoMadness]

Kyle seemed alright to me at County. He didn't seem to be struggling too bad, indeed their fans were complaining on their forum about him going down injured, then running back on as if he was fine, so I doubt it was that serious. Given how a lot of our fans seem to dislike Bennett as it is, I would've hated to have seen the reaction to him going off, not only taking us down to 10 men but also losing one of our better attacking threats on the day, when he clearly could've played on.

I'm sure Dean wouldn't have risked him if he wasn't sure, and it was an unfortunate coincidence that he was injured in training. Isn't it a knee injury anyway, and at County it looked to me like his ankle that took a knock. I know people still don't like Saunders but the bloke isn't unprofessional or incompetent. Sorry Fuzzy, but in my opinion you're putting 2 and 2 together and getting 107 there.

[newyankee]

 MachoMadness

   I think Fuzzy falls into the same catagory as me, we both live many miles from Doncaster and catch up through newspapers and Rovers player.  Fuzzy is in Switzerland and I am in the States so we do not have the first hand knowledge like you and Wellred.

 I do agree with you though about Kyle's NEW injury being different from the one he sustained at County. Dean says on his interview that in training he "appeared" to have torn some ligaments in his knee. As you say he had a knock on the ankle at Notts County.

   In fact, having worked in Rugby League and seen some of the injuries those players get and still stay on the pitch, I was quite glad to hear Dean say that he wasn't going to pamper to the players, as he told Kyle to run it off. In Dean'e defence, he is not an idiot and knows that you do not "run off" knee ligament injuries, in whatever sport. that is far too serious.

   
   

[MachoMadness]

I don't have Rovers Player, but I assume it gives you a fairly comprehensive view of the games anyway. Can you view full games on it? Anyway, I think both you NY and Fuzzy tend to know what you're talking about most of the time even if I don't always agree so I just want to make clear I'm not trying to be condescending in a "you don't go to the games so can't comment" sort of way. 

[newyankee]

 That wasn't my intention either, Macho, and Rovers player usually carries just that that goes out on the highlights show. In most cases that is usually more of the oppostion even if we were to win 6-0. The team has no control over the editing. I would always listen to someone who went to the game before someone like me who listens to the commentary.

 By the way, I sometimes post things to get people talking, although even from dar away I  do get some iside info from time to time. Also, having worked in professsional sport and put out press releases etc and written programmes, there is always an amount of truth which is held back so as not to give too much away to your opponents.

[ravenrover]

Kyle seemed alright to me at County. He didn't seem to be struggling too bad, indeed their fans were complaining on their forum about him going down injured, then running back on as if he was fine, so I doubt it was that serious. Given how a lot of our fans seem to dislike Bennett as it is, I would've hated to have seen the reaction to him going off, not only taking us down to 10 men but also losing one of our better attacking threats on the day, when he clearly could've played on.

I'm sure Dean wouldn't have risked him if he wasn't sure, and it was an unfortunate coincidence that he was injured in training. Isn't it a knee injury anyway, and at County it looked to me like his ankle that took a knock. I know people still don't like Saunders but the bloke isn't unprofessional or incompetent. Sorry Fuzzy, but in my opinion you're putting 2 and 2 together and getting 107 there.

Think thats a bit strong Macho, my take on it is that most fans, me included, are frustrated with Kyle because we have all seen what he is capable of, it's just a shame he can't or won't produce it regularly!

[MachoMadness]

Kyle seemed alright to me at County. He didn't seem to be struggling too bad, indeed their fans were complaining on their forum about him going down injured, then running back on as if he was fine, so I doubt it was that serious. Given how a lot of our fans seem to dislike Bennett as it is, I would've hated to have seen the reaction to him going off, not only taking us down to 10 men but also losing one of our better attacking threats on the day, when he clearly could've played on.

I'm sure Dean wouldn't have risked him if he wasn't sure, and it was an unfortunate coincidence that he was injured in training. Isn't it a knee injury anyway, and at County it looked to me like his ankle that took a knock. I know people still don't like Saunders but the bloke isn't unprofessional or incompetent. Sorry Fuzzy, but in my opinion you're putting 2 and 2 together and getting 107 there.

Think thats a bit strong Macho, my take on it is that most fans, me included, are frustrated with Kyle because we have all seen what he is capable of, it's just a shame he can't or won't produce it regularly!

That's a fair point, and indeed I'm one of the ones who was frustrated with Kyle this season, however there are a LOT of people on the terraces who can't wait for him to make a mistake. There's a bloke who sits near me screams bloody murder whenever he loses possession, misplaces a pass, gets fouled, makes a pass that isn't forwards, basically whenever he does anything that isn't smacking it in from 30 yards.