Well Done Dave

[mjdgreg]

At last. An in out referendum. About bloody time. Time to rid ourselves of the shackles of the EU and to start to trade a lot more with the rest of the world. Another reason never to vote Labour ever again:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-21148282

[River Don]

There won't be a referendum, not like this anyway.

For 1 the EU won't agree to his renegotiations

For 2 he isn't getting reelected

For 3 there is no reason why he couldn't push a referendum through in this Parliament. In a free vote it would be very difficult for Labour to prevent this.

In short it's all smoke and mirrors.

[mjdgreg]

If the EU don't agree to re-negotiations there will be a referendum in my opinion. Labour will be shooting themselves in the foot big-time if they don't offer a referendum (if they win the election). Dave has just bought himself a lot of votes with this offer and I fully expect to see a Tory majority at the next election.

[River Don]

If the EU don't agree to re-negotiations there will be a referendum in my opinion. Labour will be shooting themselves in the foot big-time if they don't offer a referendum (if they win the election). Dave has just bought himself a lot of votes with this offer and I fully expect to see a Tory majority at the next election.

There's no chance of a tory government, the economy is in too much of a mess and is not going to improve before the GE.

Not to worry, the EU is destined eventually to pull itself apart under the increasing financial pressure being put upon it.

[mjdgreg]

the EU is destined eventually to pull itself apart under the increasing financial pressure being put upon it.

Totally agree. The sooner we are free of it the better.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

I've said a few times the Tories would pull this one out and they've now gone and done it.  It's a big problem for Ed Milliband I think given the unpopularity of Europe in this country.  I think the debate needs to be had and the people allowed the voice, I'm still very much on the fence on Europe.  Very pro on the free trade etc, not so hot on most of the other issues.

[rtid88]

He is going to 'possibly' do this is in 5 years time!!! This isnt going to happen in other words and in the mean time it is going to cause further financial instability and uncertainty to the country! Yeah well done Dave!! Total Tosser!!

[mjdgreg]

He is going to 'possibly' do this is in 5 years time!!! This isnt going to happen in other words and in the mean time it is going to cause further financial instability and uncertainty to the country! Yeah well done Dave!! Total Tosser!!

There is no 'possibly' about it. He will definitely do it when he gets re-elected with a Tory majority.

It is noticeable that it is the same usual suspects that predicted Armageddon when we didn't join the Euro that are spouting exactly the same claptrap about an in out referendum. Say no more.

[mjdgreg]

Unbelievable!!! Red Ed has just said during Prime Minister's Questions that Labour will not be offering a referendum on Europe. Talk about throwing away any chance of Labour forming the next government. He is totally incompetent and dismissive of the views of the majority of the public.

[Filo]

Many Many election promises have been broken by this government already, why believe them this time?

[Filo]

Unbelievable!!! Red Ed has just said during Prime Minister's Questions that Labour will not be offering a referendum on Europe. Talk about throwing away any chance of Labour forming the next government. He is totally incompetent and dismissive of the views of the majority of the public.

That`s called being honest rather than make a pledge they know they won`t keep like Cameron

[mjdgreg]

Many Many election promises have been broken by this government already, why believe them this time?

They are going to pass legislation this parliament to make it happen should they win the next election.

[mjdgreg]

That`s called being honest rather than make a pledge they know they won`t keep like Cameron

It's called being incredibly stupid. No political leader with any intelligence would not leave themselves any wriggle room. Mark my words, by the time of the next election he will be offering an in out referendum as well. Its just that he will have no credibility left after what he said today. What a plonker.

[avfcsam]

There won't be a referendum, not like this anyway.

For 1 the EU won't agree to his renegotiations

For 2 he isn't getting reelected

For 3 there is no reason why he couldn't push a referendum through in this Parliament. In a free vote it would be very difficult for Labour to prevent this.

In short it's all smoke and mirrors.

This. What gets me is that if we have a referendum and the result is 'in' the Tory backbenchers are STILL going to bitch and moan. They will NEVER be appeased.

[wilts rover]

Unbelievable!!! Red Ed has just said during Prime Minister's Questions that Labour will not be offering a referendum on Europe. Talk about throwing away any chance of Labour forming the next government. He is totally incompetent and dismissive of the views of the majority of the public.

If coming out of Europe is the main point of interest among the majority of the public - why aren't UKIP in power? Me thinketh the lady protesteth overmuch.

[BobG]

Unbelievable!!! Red Ed has just said during Prime Minister's Questions that Labour will not be offering a referendum on Europe. Talk about throwing away any chance of Labour forming the next government. He is totally incompetent and dismissive of the views of the majority of the public.

Oh ffs Mick! Haven't you worked out two things yet?

1) By offering this referendum, now, so far in advance, he is now hostage to every single European country. Every time they want something all they've got to do is say 'Nope' to his demands for negotiations, or 'Nope' to his requests during those negotiations and he is gone. Gone. Blown away. FU*cked. Totally and utterly fu8cked. He must be brain dead to have said this now. That's why 'Red Ed' is more of a politician than this idiot.

Although I'm not a fan, in the slightest, of Tony Blair, he had a great comment today about the hostages he's just sold down the river.

2) We've already had a sodding referendum. We had one when we joined.

BobG

[The Red Baron]

Unbelievable!!! Red Ed has just said during Prime Minister's Questions that Labour will not be offering a referendum on Europe. Talk about throwing away any chance of Labour forming the next government. He is totally incompetent and dismissive of the views of the majority of the public.

If coming out of Europe is the main point of interest among the majority of the public - why aren't UKIP in power? Me thinketh the lady protesteth overmuch.

If you talk about "Europe" then, you're right, everyone's eyes glaze over. However, just about every single political issue that matters to people depends on "Europe" because that's where most of our laws are made. In particular, people are realising that we can't control immigration because of "Europe"- and the spectacularly bad decisions made by the last Government.

Having said that, the "let's negotiate after 2015 and then hold a referendum" position of Cameron's is a nonsense. At the very least, he should offer an In-Out referendum within 12 months of being elected. Personally, I would say I want to hold a referendum as soon as possible and defy the Lib-Dems and Labour to vote it down. But then I'm a Euroscpetic- Cameron isn't, despite his rhetoric.

[mjdgreg]

I'd have an in out referendum tomorrow and hope we'd vote 'out'. Given that I have to live in the real world I will wait until Cameron is re-elected and take the opportunity when it is presented. I'm confident we'd vote 'out' in 5 years anyway as Europe will be more of a basket case then than it already is now.

Whatever party is in power at the next election we'll still get a referendum. Red Ed started backtracking on his comments during PMQ's within an hour of uttering them. Labour are not stupid enough to go into the election not offering a referendum.

[ravenrover]

The problem with a referendum is that millions of people, and I'm probably one of them, will be voting on something they really know sweet Fanny Adams about.
How many of the great unwashed will know anything about say, the Economic ramifications it would have if we stayed in or came out. How many would simply vote out because we don't want to be "part of Europe" and have no other justification.
We really need educating about about what it means to stay in and what effect it will have on the country as whole if we come out, and dare I say The Scots need the same level of education before they vote to become Independant.

[mjdgreg]

Just do what I do, vote 'out'. Trust me I know what I'm talking about.

[ravenrover]

Sorry Mick, having read some of your posts I would have thought you belong in the group as me

[mjdgreg]

All you need to know is that it is the same people predicting doom and gloom if we vote 'out' that predicted exactly the same thing if we didn't join the Euro.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Unbelievable!!! Red Ed has just said during Prime Minister's Questions that Labour will not be offering a referendum on Europe. Talk about throwing away any chance of Labour forming the next government. He is totally incompetent and dismissive of the views of the majority of the public.

2) We've already had a sodding referendum. We had one when we joined.

BobG

So people like myself aren't entitled to say, given it happened a long time before I was even thought of?

[BobG]

It's not a question of whether you, me or anyone else should have a vote. I was attempting to point out that there has been a vote - which this, and many other threads, seemed to ignore completely. Of course, if the nature of the institution changes significantly, there is always the option to think again. which is the position we may be in now. But to pretend that this country has never ever voted on EU membership is plain wrong.

BobG

[mjdgreg]

We had a referendum to join a common market. What we've got now is completely different. The self-serving political elite think they know what's best for us. They don't. I do. Time to get out before it's too late.

[Glyn_Wigley]

We had a referendum to join a common market.

Trust you, you know what you're talking about?

Ha ha ha ha.

[The Red Baron]

The problem with a referendum is that millions of people, and I'm probably one of them, will be voting on something they really know sweet Fanny Adams about.
How many of the great unwashed will know anything about say, the Economic ramifications it would have if we stayed in or came out. How many would simply vote out because we don't want to be "part of Europe" and have no other justification.
We really need educating about about what it means to stay in and what effect it will have on the country as whole if we come out, and dare I say The Scots need the same level of education before they vote to become Independant.

And a referendum campaign would be the best means of educating people about the pros and cons of EU membership. It is too complex to cover in a General Election (in any case, only UKIP seems to have a clear policy on EU membership).

As I've said before, I'm a Eurosceptic, largely because the EU has become too bureaucratic and, crucially, too inward-looking. Cameron was right to point out today that other countries are leaving the EU behind in terms of competitiveness. Having said all that, a referendum will give some closure, because if we vote to stay in, then we need to start working properly within the frameworks of the EU.

The time of the Maastricht Treaty was, for me, the time to have a referendum. John Major flunked his chance. Had he not done so, he'd have been regarded as a great leader, rather than as the man who was humiliated by New Labour in 1997.

[mjdgreg]

Unfortunately the vast bulk of the population are not bothered about being educated or are too thick to understand the pros and cons. You just have to look at the responses my insightful, intelligent posts get. It will probably boil down to an irrational fear of foreigners that makes the 'out' campaign win the day.

Whatever way the result is decided, I'll be pleased with an 'out' vote.

[ravenrover]

And how many will simply follow the Party line from which ever party they support? The education should start well before any thought of a referendum otherwise it would be meaningless and too late.
Lets face it when I lived in Doncaster up to the mid 70's Labour could have put a red ribbon around a pigs neck and it would have been voted into power, have things changed?

[Glyn_Wigley]

And how many will simply follow the Party line from which ever party they support? The education should start well before any thought of a referendum otherwise it would be meaningless and too late.
Lets face it when I lived in Doncaster up to the mid 70's Labour could have put a red ribbon around a pigs neck and it would have been voted into power, have things changed?

There won't be party lines during campaigning for a referendum. There wasn't for the 1975 referendum, even Cabinet Collective Responsibility was suspended so cabinet colleagues could campaign on opposite sides of the question. If any of the big three parties tried to impose party lines they'd tear themselves apart. It will be treated the same way a free vote in the Commons is, ie up to the conscience of the individual and not a party matter.