Well Done Dave

[mjdgreg]

What a surprise. Billy forgetting to mention a few things. Well I never.

[Filo]

What a surprise. Billy forgetting to mention a few things. Well I never.

It must have slipped your notice as well eh? or you could n`t find anything via google to contradict him!

[mjdgreg]

I can find so much to contradict him that I'd be here all night. I believe I have previously totally destroyed any credibility he may have once had so do not feel the need to do it again. I'm sure all you leftie readers of this forum are secretly laughing behind his back and just pretending you still take him seriously.

[Viking Don]

Cam and company are making this country a joke - the latest crackpot idea being a bedroom tax that'll mean more kids in care not foster homes.

I see they've backtracked on the changes to the GCSE system. It's almost like they need the daily mail to make their policies for them. Now how could that be?

BTW I'm not suggesting you all vote Labour, the lesser of the two evils, but if that's the only choice then there's not a choice.

Get some chainmail armour .

[scriptman]

I'm sure all you leftie readers of this forum are secretly laughing behind his back and just pretending you still take him seriously.

BST certainly has me shaking my head in despair. For the life of me I cannot understand why someone of his knowledge and intelligence rises to your nonsensical twaddle.  I applaud you, however, for drawing out the reactions you seek. As wind-up merchants go you seem to know what buttons to press. 

In the event you genuinely believe in the contents of your posts, and you are passionate about them, then why not challenge BST to a verbal debate? I would pay a fiver to see it. Maybe invite a couple of counsellors. Your team of Thatcherites, against BST’s team with left of centre views.  You might even raise a few quid for the VSC.

[wilts rover]

I was just about to reply to Crofty but see that Don has (just about) done it for me. If you study the social situation in the country before an election where there is a change of government 9 times out of 10 the public are voting against the previous government - rather than for the one that comes in.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Crofty.

You are right in everything you say. 100%.

That doesn't change the central tenet of my point. Which is that people who say that Labour cannot win in 2015 because a) Miliband is much less popular than Cameron and/or b) Labour should be further ahead in the polls at this point in the Parliament cannot call on a perfect historical record to back up their claims.

I KNOW the Winter of Discontent was a key issue in Thatcher winning. And that is irrelevant. There are unique circumstances in EVERY Parliament and EVERY Election. There is an enormous one in this current Parliament and it will be a bigger issue by far in the General Election of 2015 than even the Winter of Discontent was. That is that, for the first time in 30-odd years, the centre-left in British politics is not divided. Every since the Gang of Four sulked off in 81/82 to form the SDP, the centre-left vote has been split. That meant that the Tories could claim power with historically low vote share in General Elections.

That will not happen in 2015. Anyone left-leaning now knows that a vote for the Lib Dems can put the Tories in power. So, if you are left-leaning, why take the chance?

That was a blindingly obvious outcome of the coalition (and if I were a smug t**t, I'd point you in the direction of a post of mine from May 2010 predicting exactly that outcome). It is the reason why Labour's poll figures have been astonishingly consistent in the mid-to-low 40s% for over two years. That is the result of daft t**ts who voted LD in 2010 realising what they did and coming back to their political home. They are not going to change their minds. Their minds are set already.

So, for the Tories to win in 15, they are going to have to poll somewhere significantly higher than 40%.

And NOW we get to the nub of the argument. The Tories have only got >40% in opinion polls for three brief periods in the last 22 years, since they knifed Thatcher. Once was for 18 months either side of the 1992 Election, in the euphoria of booting Thatcher out, until Black Weds f**ked them over. Once was for 9 months or so at the very depths of the 2008/09 Great Recession and Brown's manifold bungling of everything he touched. And once was for 6 months after the 2010 Election.

So, apart from brief honeymoons and a recession of historic proportions, the Tories have not hit 40% in the polls for a generation. So why should we expect them to do in in 2015, after presiding over a perma-slump?

THAT is why Labour can, and most likely WILL win in 2015.

[BillyStubbsTears]

I'm sure all you leftie readers of this forum are secretly laughing behind his back and just pretending you still take him seriously.

BST certainly has me shaking my head in despair. For the life of me I cannot understand why someone of his knowledge and intelligence rises to your nonsensical twaddle.  I applaud you, however, for drawing out the reactions you seek. As wind-up merchants go you seem to know what buttons to press. 

In the event you genuinely believe in the contents of your posts, and you are passionate about them, then why not challenge BST to a verbal debate? I would pay a fiver to see it. Maybe invite a couple of counsellors. Your team of Thatcherites, against BST’s team with left of centre views.  You might even raise a few quid for the VSC.

Scriptman. I DON'T reply to Mick. Not for a while now. I gave up on him a few months ago when it was clear that he was mentally unstable.

Apparently, from what people tell me, he replies to my posts, but he doesn't seem to realise that I have had him on ignore for a good while now.

Life's too short.

[Mr1Croft]

Crofty.

You are right in everything you say. 100%.

That doesn't change the central tenet of my point. Which is that people who say that Labour cannot win in 2015 because a) Miliband is much less popular than Cameron and/or b) Labour should be further ahead in the polls at this point in the Parliament cannot call on a perfect historical record to back up their claims.

I KNOW the Winter of Discontent was a key issue in Thatcher winning. And that is irrelevant. There are unique circumstances in EVERY Parliament and EVERY Election. There is an enormous one in this current Parliament and it will be a bigger issue by far in the General Election of 2015 than even the Winter of Discontent was. That is that, for the first time in 30-odd years, the centre-left in British politics is not divided. Every since the Gang of Four sulked off in 81/82 to form the SDP, the centre-left vote has been split. That meant that the Tories could claim power with historically low vote share in General Elections.

That will not happen in 2015. Anyone left-leaning now knows that a vote for the Lib Dems can put the Tories in power. So, if you are left-leaning, why take the chance?

That was a blindingly obvious outcome of the coalition (and if I were a smug t**t, I'd point you in the direction of a post of mine from May 2010 predicting exactly that outcome). It is the reason why Labour's poll figures have been astonishingly consistent in the mid-to-low 40s% for over two years. That is the result of daft t**ts who voted LD in 2010 realising what they did and coming back to their political home. They are not going to change their minds. Their minds are set already.

So, for the Tories to win in 15, they are going to have to poll somewhere significantly higher than 40%.

And NOW we get to the nub of the argument. The Tories have only got >40% in opinion polls for three brief periods in the last 22 years, since they knifed Thatcher. Once was for 18 months either side of the 1992 Election, in the euphoria of booting Thatcher out, until Black Weds f**ked them over. Once was for 9 months or so at the very depths of the 2008/09 Great Recession and Brown's manifold bungling of everything he touched. And once was for 6 months after the 2010 Election.

So, apart from brief honeymoons and a recession of historic proportions, the Tories have not hit 40% in the polls for a generation. So why should we expect them to do in in 2015, after presiding over a perma-slump?

THAT is why Labour can, and most likely WILL win in 2015.

I agree with a lot of that, in general, but I still think Ed Miliband will be a stumbling block. There just isn't something right with the leaders of today, taken straight out of Oxford/Cambridge and be made as researchers, working in the treasury etc., As I said previously, any other leader in the history of the Conservative party would have won a landslide in 2010 but Cameron never and I believe the reason was him.

At present I still think we are heading for a hung Parliament, but we'll be in a better position to predict in a years time...

[BillyStubbsTears]

I agree with a lot of that, in general, but I still think Ed Miliband will be a stumbling block. There just isn't something right with the leaders of today, taken straight out of Oxford/Cambridge and be made as researchers, working in the treasury etc., As I said previously, any other leader in the history of the Conservative party would have won a landslide in 2010 but Cameron never and I believe the reason was him.

At present I still think we are heading for a hung Parliament, but we'll be in a better position to predict in a years time...

Heath? Major? IDS? Hague? Howard? Home? The Tory party have had some rank bad leaders and Cameron is no worse than that list.

I understand where you are coming from about 2010 Crofty, but I think you are missing the big historical trend that I pointed out in the previous post. Over the past 20-25 years, the Tories have become a party that is not a credible party of Government. I don't know what it was that they did (I have my own theories, but I don't know if they are correct) but the truth of that opinion is there in their poll figures for the past 20-odd years.

They failed to win in 2010 not because Cameron is shit (although he is). If they'd had David Davies, they would have faired no better. They failed to win a majority because they have become a party that cannot command enough support to win a majority.

Labour, on the other hand, within 4 months of a catastrophic election defeat in 2010, had bounced back to >40% poll figures. And they've stayed there ever since. Rock solid. Which is why I do not see anything on the horizon that will bring Labour's vote share down before 2015. And equally, I see nothing to bring the Tories up from 32-33% where they are now, to 43-45% that they need to win in 15.

[RedJ]

Not sure anyone will agree but I think Hague was the right leader for the wrong election. He came across to me as a bit of a warrior leader when he was about - exactly what I felt the Tories lacked 3 years ago.

Just my opinion, like.

[mjdgreg]

BST certainly has me shaking my head in despair. For the life of me I cannot understand why someone of his knowledge and intelligence rises to your nonsensical twaddle.  I applaud you, however, for drawing out the reactions you seek. As wind-up merchants go you seem to know what buttons to press. 

In the event you genuinely believe in the contents of your posts, and you are passionate about them, then why not challenge BST to a verbal debate? I would pay a fiver to see it. Maybe invite a couple of counsellors. Your team of Thatcherites, against BST’s team with left of centre views.  You might even raise a few quid for the VSC.

I'll have you know that I believe everything I post. I defy you to come up with anything I have stated that can be described as nonsensical twaddle. I am not a WUM. I seem to wind people up and hence get that description purely because I espouse an ultra right wing view. Obviously that doesn't go down well on a far left forum.

I blame Billy for this in the main. I agree with you that he is intelligent and feel that all the less intelligent members of the forum have been swayed by his arguments because they think that he must be right because he is more intelligent than what they are.

Unfortunately for him I have come along with my superior intellect and have totally destroyed all of his arguments and made the man look daft. Unfortunately his followers now secretly feel that he has led them up the garden path but don't want to admit it because they are afraid of losing face. I can live with that.

As to your request, I hereby challenge Billy to a debate. I will handle my side of things totally on my own. He can have as many lefties as he wants to support him. That's a good idea of yours for a couple of counsellors to be on hand. He will certainly need them after the drubbing he receives from me.

[bobjimwilly]

Since you joined this forum, mjdgreg, you have consistently not replied to posts that have proven your facts false and your arguments floored. At other times, when people have pointed out your incorrect facts, your stupid replies of "I'm glad you spotted my purposeful mistake" have become tedius, and your attempts to present yourself as unbiased and not a tory have made you look simply stupid at times.

You have copied more articles word-for-word from other websites than anyone can shake a number of sticks at.

BST is ignoring you because you're a prat and a WUM. Simple as.

[mjdgreg]

I challenge you to find 10 facts that have been proved false. Shouldn't be too hard out of the 100's of posts I've made. I doubt you'll get anywhere near that number. In fact I bet you don't even try because you know you are spouting total rubbish.

As for your assertion that I don't reply to posts that is totally laughable. i am far and away the best person on this forum for answering everything that is thrown at me. Again, i challenge you to find 10 examples. I wouldn't bother if I were you because you won't be able to.

[mjdgreg]

They failed to win in 2010 not because Cameron is shit (although he is). If they'd had David Davies, they would have faired no better. They failed to win a majority because they have become a party that cannot command enough support to win a majority.

The reason the Tories can't command enough support to win a majority is because Labour borrowed and spent so much money creating a dependency culture that far too many people would be worse off with a Tory government. A Tory revival is being held back because of the public sector ‘stranglehold’, which means any party that seeks to reduce the size of the state struggles to make progress.

I hope Labour do win the next election. There will be such an economic melt-down that they won't last 12 months. Then the Tories will get straight back in and Labour will be out of power for a generation.

[Filo]

I challenge you to find 10 facts that have been proved false. Shouldn't be too hard out of the 100's of posts I've made. I doubt you'll get anywhere near that number. In fact I bet you don't even try because you know you are spouting total rubbish.

As for your assertion that I don't reply to posts that is totally laughable. i am far and away the best person on this forum for answering everything that is thrown at me. Again, i challenge you to find 10 examples. I wouldn't bother if I were you because you won't be able to.

Here`s a whole thread. started by you and so many questions asked, but you`ve refused to reply

http://www.drfc-vsc.co.uk/index.php?topic=237124.0


In fact I`ll bump it back on to the first page so you and others can`t miss it