iron lady gone

[MrFrost]

Why would I need to Google them when I own pretty much the entire discography.

[Norfolk N Chance]

, i had Friends and relatives who were miners during the strike need i say more.

So, that makes it okay to rejoice in her death? What do you actually know about the miners strike?

She was pure evil!

[Glyn_Wigley]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cartoon/2013/apr/08/margaret-thatcher-death-steve-bell-cartoon

 

[Barmby Rover]

To quote the epitaph of Sir Christopher Wren: "'Reader, if you seek his memorial - look around you."

The legacy of Thatcher is what we have now, 30 plus years of "there is no such thing as society" greed and individualistic thinking. It has produced a massively wealthy, peaceful society which is innovative and forward thinking. Of course it hasn't. In my youth I never saw a homeless person on the street, didn't know family's under threat of losing their homes, lived in a country that made things and was far more equal. That could not be tolerated by the greedy and unscrupulous, they wanted to move their wealth out and ensure the walls they built around themnselves could never be breached. There are now 32 Trillion dollars in the British Virgin Isles alone hidden away by the elite of this world. It is a marvellous society Thatcherism built, enjoy it if you can stomach it, it makes me ashamed to think that we spawned such a nasty, ignorant and heinous situation.

[scriptman]

, i had Friends and relatives who were miners during the strike need i say more.

So, that makes it okay to rejoice in her death? What do you actually know about the miners strike?

She was pure evil!

I couldn’t agree more and reading the plaudits on here, which is essentially a Doncaster forum, makes my skin crawl.  This woman orchestrated a ‘managed’ decline of the industrial north. She never gave a toss about people living in this town. She did more damage to UK industries than the Luftwaffe ever did. The motor industry, mining, steel, fishing, textile, were destroyed in the wake of her policies. She championed Britain on the world stage yet chose to import coal and steel from Eastern Europe. This evil cow channelled money away from working classes to line the pockets of her flag waving little Englanders. People said she had balls of steel… what a load of crap. She was untouchable and used the London Met police force as her own private army. The sad thing is she could see no wrong in her ways but because of her our once proud communities now suffer from social deprivation, crime, and poverty.

For the chap on here who suggested the miner’s strike should have been conducted with a mandate? It wouldn’t have made a blind bit of difference. Scargill suggested the Tories (hidden agenda) and ultimate aim was to shut 90% of the mines by the year 2000. Thatcher accused him of being a sensationalist and mocked this very assertion.

I won’t be celebrating her death. Celebrating requires energy and I’ve spent enough of that despising the evil tyrant whilst she was alive.     

[IDM]

I seem to recall the government made quite a big deal of the miners' strike not being properly mandated - thus justifying (to them) their strong arm tactics in dealing with it.

At the time I believed it would be much simpler for Scargill to call a proper ballot, and then take the strike action that he would certainly have the proper mandate for.

That aside, Maggie Thatcher has been out of power for around 22 years - whether or not her wrongs have since been put right by successive governments is another debate, as clearly many haven't.

By all means criticise what she did, in debates and discussions about her legacy, but celebrating a death is still wrong.  How does celebrating her death make any difference to her legacy?  Is our country going to change for the better now she has passed away 22 years after leaving the office of PM?

[hoolahoop]

, i had Friends and relatives who were miners during the strike need i say more.

So, that makes it okay to rejoice in her death? What do you actually know about the miners strike?

She was pure evil!

I couldn’t agree more and reading the plaudits on here, which is essentially a Doncaster forum, makes my skin crawl.  This woman orchestrated a ‘managed’ decline of the industrial north. She never gave a toss about people living in this town. She did more damage to UK industries than the Luftwaffe ever did. The motor industry, mining, steel, fishing, textile, were destroyed in the wake of her policies. She championed Britain on the world stage yet chose to import coal and steel from Eastern Europe. This evil cow channelled money away from working classes to line the pockets of her flag waving little Englanders. People said she had balls of steel… what a load of crap. She was untouchable and used the London Met police force as her own private army. The sad thing is she could see no wrong in her ways but because of her our once proud communities now suffer from social deprivation, crime, and poverty.

For the chap on here who suggested the miner’s strike should have been conducted with a mandate? It wouldn’t have made a blind bit of difference. Scargill suggested the Tories (hidden agenda) and ultimate aim was to shut 90% of the mines by the year 2000. Thatcher accused him of being a sensationalist and mocked this very assertion.

I won’t be celebrating her death. Celebrating requires energy and I’ve spent enough of that despising the evil tyrant whilst she was alive.     

Why , do you think we should all be some sort of left wing class warriors because we come from this town. You said it earlier in your post 'she managed a decline of the industrial North', did she really and do you seriously think that decline was brought about by her or her policies ? We were already way down the path of decline due to internal and exterior circumstances as I've posted earlier before. Management and Unions failed to grasp/didn't give a flying fook about the situation, I know I worked as an intermediary in wage negotiations between both parties at that time..........it was a frigging mess fella. There was no working together , no compromise, zero dialogue, zilch respect about how both parties wanted to move their businesses on to become more productive and therefore competitive. I used to be in wage negotiations where different unions were scrapping with each other for a bigger slice of a small cake etc. The unions I was dealing with at that time wanted 15-20% pay rises, more rest days, shorter working hours etc. and on most occasions the businesses could only stand a max of 4/5% to stay in profit and move the business on. It was a recipe for disaster, a free for all if you like . Neither side was willing to seriously debate the futures of their businesses and of course the part that the stakeholders (employees) could play in that. Poorly trained management and leaders of workforces that would never see the bigger picture and of course the futures of their business and employment. It needed sorting, it beggared belief. I'm fed-up of folk glossing over the weaknesses of all and I mean ALL sides at that time. To compete with the emerging power houses in the Far East as well as our traditional competitors we had to TALK but we were basically in most cases inept and a free for all ensued until it was checked.
This period was driven by greed at a time when  clear minds, clever strategies and compromise were needed. Quite simply we were poor and blaming all of that on Maggie is a joke unlike the stupidity of those opening bottles of champers yesterday. Many of them were more than likely around those negotiating tables in the 80's!
Was there a winner? Unlike BST's contention that there were many winners who waltzed off with the cash..........there clearly wasn't.
Today business is more professionally run , union reps are correctly trained and are able to see the needs of the businesses they work in and unlike 30 years ago most of us have decent lives.
Love her, hate her it's irrelevant now we have moved on and it's hightime some on here now started doing the same.
THE IRON LADY IS DEAD OK.

[River Don]

Hoola.

You've clearly bought into the hagiography of Thatcher "saving" Britain from economic disaster. The truth is actually rather different.

Between 1955 and 1979, the average UK economic growth rate after inflation was 2.1%. Between 1980 and 2008, the average UK economic growth rate after inflation was... (go on...have a guess).

The truth is that our economic performance neither improved nor worsened a jot after Thatcher. What DID happen that that a massive shift occurred from poor to rich, from Industry to Finance and from North to South. She ushered in an era in which the smart, pushy, savvy individualist could get very, very successful. But given that overall economic performance was no better than it had been before her, that had to have a cost. The cost was that everyone else shared less in economic growth and the proceeds got concentrated more and more in fewer and fewer hands.

And that is not MY take. That is the simple, checkable fact. In 1979, for every £1 that GDP grew  by, median wages went up  by 90p. In 2008, the increase in median wages was 57p. Have a guess where the difference has gone?

IF that shift of the rewards to a tiny percentage of leading entrepreneurs had transformed our economic performance, if it had given us much higher economic growth, I might swallow it. But it didn't. It didn't change it by one iota. We still grow at the rate that we did in the era when we were supposedly the Sick Man of Europe and the Unions were in charge. So what's happened is that we're all working harder but taking a smaller share of the cake than we used to do. And the cake is growing no quicker than it used to do. So our hard work is doing nothing but to lining the pockets of those at the top. That is why we've ended up with a culture (supported by Blair & Mandelson to their eternal disgrace) where the last time we had such a split between the wages of the most highly paid 1% and those of the bottom 50% was just before the Great Depression.

THAT is the revolution that Thatcher brought to this country. And that is ONE reason why I despised the bitch with a vengeance at the time and why I'm happy that she's gone now.

Add to that, the only thing that kept things growing since then, is they were lucky enough to be around when they were able to start exploiting North Sea oil.

Without that she would have been out of office long before.

[hoolahoop]

To quote the epitaph of Sir Christopher Wren: "'Reader, if you seek his memorial - look around you."

The legacy of Thatcher is what we have now, 30 plus years of "there is no such thing as society" greed and individualistic thinking. It has produced a massively wealthy, peaceful society which is innovative and forward thinking. Of course it hasn't. In my youth I never saw a homeless person on the street, didn't know family's under threat of losing their homes, lived in a country that made things and was far more equal. That could not be tolerated by the greedy and unscrupulous, they wanted to move their wealth out and ensure the walls they built around themnselves could never be breached. There are now 32 Trillion dollars in the British Virgin Isles alone hidden away by the elite of this world. It is a marvellous society Thatcherism built, enjoy it if you can stomach it, it makes me ashamed to think that we spawned such a nasty, ignorant and heinous situation.

What nonsense Will , there were as many homeless and hungry folk on the streets of Doncaster in our youth and you bloody know it. Of course we also had a beautiful and shiny town too didn't we ?
Don't let the realities  of 30-40 years ago slip from your mind and fool you just because you want to be called a socialist. The reality was that we lived in a dirty, rundown town where folk worked bloody long hours underground or in a steelmill with all the attached industrial diseases and danger that went with it and btw there wasn't alot to go around for the vast majority pre or post Thatcher. Sorry fella but that's my memory, now if you can point out what the average Doncastrian doesn't have now that they had then then I would have to seriously reconsider your post.

[MachoMadness]

I was too young to remember when Thatcher was in office, but as someone who grew up as part of a mining family, in a couple of villages where the pits had been closed, while I won't be celebrating her death myself I certainly won't begrudge anyone who chooses to do so. And that's all I'm really qualified to say on the matter.

[scriptman]

[/quote]

I seem to recall the government made quite a big deal of the miners' strike not being properly mandated - thus justifying (to them) their strong arm tactics in dealing with it.

At the time I believed it would be much simpler for Scargill to call a proper ballot, and then take the strike action that he would certainly have the proper mandate for.

That aside, Maggie Thatcher has been out of power for around 22 years - whether or not her wrongs have since been put right by successive governments is another debate, as clearly many haven't.

By all means criticise what she did, in debates and discussions about her legacy, but celebrating a death is still wrong.  How does celebrating her death make any difference to her legacy?  Is our country going to change for the better now she has passed away 22 years after leaving the office of PM?

Life is about choices and if people choose to celebrate her death then it’s their given right. Far be it for you or I to cast aspersions on the integrity of others.

Thatcher made it illegal to strike without mandate, spitefully done to suppress the power of the unions, who incidentally she detested with venom. The miners voted with their feet, hence the vast majority went on strike. With a ballot they would have still voted to go on strike.  Scargill voiced concern that Thatcher was out to systematically shut down pits and close down the mining industry. Striking was the only means available to safeguard jobs. This was categorically refuted by Thatcher who stated only 20 mines would close. She described Scargill as a scaremonger, troublemaker and liar…. but ultimately it was her peddling lies.

I respect the fact you do not wish to celebrate the death of Thatcher but your personal view isn’t shared by people living on the consequence of Thatcherite policies. I can perfectly understand why people do want to celebrate, even 22-years after she was booted out. I have seen communities and village wrecked by her politics, and suffer still with social problems in 2013. Today’s society is reaping from what was sowed in Thatcher’s years as Prime Minister.  What makes matters worse is that Cameron is an extension of Thatcherite ideology, only he cannot raise funds by selling off utilities or closing down industries because there’s nothing left to sell or close down.

[Filo]

To quote the epitaph of Sir Christopher Wren: "'Reader, if you seek his memorial - look around you."

The legacy of Thatcher is what we have now, 30 plus years of "there is no such thing as society" greed and individualistic thinking. It has produced a massively wealthy, peaceful society which is innovative and forward thinking. Of course it hasn't. In my youth I never saw a homeless person on the street, didn't know family's under threat of losing their homes, lived in a country that made things and was far more equal. That could not be tolerated by the greedy and unscrupulous, they wanted to move their wealth out and ensure the walls they built around themnselves could never be breached. There are now 32 Trillion dollars in the British Virgin Isles alone hidden away by the elite of this world. It is a marvellous society Thatcherism built, enjoy it if you can stomach it, it makes me ashamed to think that we spawned such a nasty, ignorant and heinous situation.

What nonsense Will , there were as many homeless and hungry folk on the streets of Doncaster in our youth and you bloody know it. Of course we also had a beautiful and shiny town too didn't we ?
Don't let the realities  of 30-40 years ago slip from your mind and fool you just because you want to be called a socialist. The reality was that we lived in a dirty, rundown town where folk worked bloody long hours underground or in a steelmill with all the attached industrial diseases and danger that went with it and btw there wasn't alot to go around for the vast majority pre or post Thatcher. Sorry fella but that's my memory, now if you can point out what the average Doncastrian doesn't have now that they had then then I would have to seriously reconsider your post.

ICI, International Harvesters/McCormicks, Plant Works, Coal Mines, Shipyard (Thorne), Pilkington Glass.


Many thousands of jobs that were never replaced, the ones that were replaced were on the minimum wage, massive amounts of money was taken out of the local economy, and even today the area suffers from the brutal policies of Thatcher!

[River Don]

To quote the epitaph of Sir Christopher Wren: "'Reader, if you seek his memorial - look around you."

The legacy of Thatcher is what we have now, 30 plus years of "there is no such thing as society" greed and individualistic thinking. It has produced a massively wealthy, peaceful society which is innovative and forward thinking. Of course it hasn't. In my youth I never saw a homeless person on the street, didn't know family's under threat of losing their homes, lived in a country that made things and was far more equal. That could not be tolerated by the greedy and unscrupulous, they wanted to move their wealth out and ensure the walls they built around themnselves could never be breached. There are now 32 Trillion dollars in the British Virgin Isles alone hidden away by the elite of this world. It is a marvellous society Thatcherism built, enjoy it if you can stomach it, it makes me ashamed to think that we spawned such a nasty, ignorant and heinous situation.

What nonsense Will , there were as many homeless and hungry folk on the streets of Doncaster in our youth and you bloody know it. Of course we also had a beautiful and shiny town too didn't we ?
Don't let the realities  of 30-40 years ago slip from your mind and fool you just because you want to be called a socialist. The reality was that we lived in a dirty, rundown town where folk worked bloody long hours underground or in a steelmill with all the attached industrial diseases and danger that went with it and btw there wasn't alot to go around for the vast majority pre or post Thatcher. Sorry fella but that's my memory, now if you can point out what the average Doncastrian doesn't have now that they had then then I would have to seriously reconsider your post.

It may have been a dirty old town but at least it was pulling things out of the ground, adding value to them and selling them. This is real wealth.

Industry in the North had suffered through a lack of investment and modernisation for years. Thatchers solution was to close it all down, what easier way to destroy the unions than to close all their industry? Throwing the baby out with the bathwater is a colossal understatement.

Where there had been steel mills they built shopping malls and superstores, they liberalised finance which released a tidal wave of credit which helped create the housing bubble we have now and the mountain of debt that is bringing our economy down.

If only we had been a bit more like the Germans and invested in manufacturing, instead of casinos.

[scriptman]

To quote the epitaph of Sir Christopher Wren: "'Reader, if you seek his memorial - look around you."

The legacy of Thatcher is what we have now, 30 plus years of "there is no such thing as society" greed and individualistic thinking. It has produced a massively wealthy, peaceful society which is innovative and forward thinking. Of course it hasn't. In my youth I never saw a homeless person on the street, didn't know family's under threat of losing their homes, lived in a country that made things and was far more equal. That could not be tolerated by the greedy and unscrupulous, they wanted to move their wealth out and ensure the walls they built around themnselves could never be breached. There are now 32 Trillion dollars in the British Virgin Isles alone hidden away by the elite of this world. It is a marvellous society Thatcherism built, enjoy it if you can stomach it, it makes me ashamed to think that we spawned such a nasty, ignorant and heinous situation.

What nonsense Will , there were as many homeless and hungry folk on the streets of Doncaster in our youth and you bloody know it. Of course we also had a beautiful and shiny town too didn't we ?
Don't let the realities  of 30-40 years ago slip from your mind and fool you just because you want to be called a socialist. The reality was that we lived in a dirty, rundown town where folk worked bloody long hours underground or in a steelmill with all the attached industrial diseases and danger that went with it and btw there wasn't alot to go around for the vast majority pre or post Thatcher. Sorry fella but that's my memory, now if you can point out what the average Doncastrian doesn't have now that they had then then I would have to seriously reconsider your post.

Of course there was poverty in the 60s and 70s but the gap between the wealthy and poor was a fraction of the size it is now. Let's not forget also we have moved on substantially in technology and health awareness since the 70s. Today we have the ability to protect miners from industrial disease and capacity to produce clean coal, which of course is irrelevant now as the mines are closed. I grew up in the 60 and 70s, the community was strong, the streets were safe, and respect was for elders was the norm. Can you say the same about today? Thatcherite ideology is based on selfishness and greed and we are experiencing the consequences now.  I’m not saying the socialist, or Labour way, was the route forward in the 70s. Clearly the world was changing but instead of implementing gradual change, like the Netherlands, Germany, or France, Thatcher wielded change with an axe and people suffered unduly. This is why I personally cannot forgive Thatcher.

[scriptman]

, i had Friends and relatives who were miners during the strike need i say more.

So, that makes it okay to rejoice in her death? What do you actually know about the miners strike?

She was pure evil!

I couldn’t agree more and reading the plaudits on here, which is essentially a Doncaster forum, makes my skin crawl.  This woman orchestrated a ‘managed’ decline of the industrial north. She never gave a toss about people living in this town. She did more damage to UK industries than the Luftwaffe ever did. The motor industry, mining, steel, fishing, textile, were destroyed in the wake of her policies. She championed Britain on the world stage yet chose to import coal and steel from Eastern Europe. This evil cow channelled money away from working classes to line the pockets of her flag waving little Englanders. People said she had balls of steel… what a load of crap. She was untouchable and used the London Met police force as her own private army. The sad thing is she could see no wrong in her ways but because of her our once proud communities now suffer from social deprivation, crime, and poverty.

For the chap on here who suggested the miner’s strike should have been conducted with a mandate? It wouldn’t have made a blind bit of difference. Scargill suggested the Tories (hidden agenda) and ultimate aim was to shut 90% of the mines by the year 2000. Thatcher accused him of being a sensationalist and mocked this very assertion.

I won’t be celebrating her death. Celebrating requires energy and I’ve spent enough of that despising the evil tyrant whilst she was alive.     

Why , do you think we should all be some sort of left wing class warriors because we come from this town. You said it earlier in your post 'she managed a decline of the industrial North', did she really and do you seriously think that decline was brought about by her or her policies ? We were already way down the path of decline due to internal and exterior circumstances as I've posted earlier before. Management and Unions failed to grasp/didn't give a flying fook about the situation, I know I worked as an intermediary in wage negotiations between both parties at that time..........it was a frigging mess fella. There was no working together , no compromise, zero dialogue, zilch respect about how both parties wanted to move their businesses on to become more productive and therefore competitive. I used to be in wage negotiations where different unions were scrapping with each other for a bigger slice of a small cake etc. The unions I was dealing with at that time wanted 15-20% pay rises, more rest days, shorter working hours etc. and on most occasions the businesses could only stand a max of 4/5% to stay in profit and move the business on. It was a recipe for disaster, a free for all if you like . Neither side was willing to seriously debate the futures of their businesses and of course the part that the stakeholders (employees) could play in that. Poorly trained management and leaders of workforces that would never see the bigger picture and of course the futures of their business and employment. It needed sorting, it beggared belief. I'm fed-up of folk glossing over the weaknesses of all and I mean ALL sides at that time. To compete with the emerging power houses in the Far East as well as our traditional competitors we had to TALK but we were basically in most cases inept and a free for all ensued until it was checked.
This period was driven by greed at a time when  clear minds, clever strategies and compromise were needed. Quite simply we were poor and blaming all of that on Maggie is a joke unlike the stupidity of those opening bottles of champers yesterday. Many of them were more than likely around those negotiating tables in the 80's!
Was there a winner? Unlike BST's contention that there were many winners who waltzed off with the cash..........there clearly wasn't.
Today business is more professionally run , union reps are correctly trained and are able to see the needs of the businesses they work in and unlike 30 years ago most of us have decent lives.
Love her, hate her it's irrelevant now we have moved on and it's hightime some on here now started doing the same.
THE IRON LADY IS DEAD OK.

You have me confused, I’m not sure what world you are living in. The country was absolutely not in decline prior to Thatcher. It required change, granted, but not the extent she bestowed in such a short space of time. Thatcherite policies did not work. She exhausted the countries assets and in 1991 was still playing catch up to France and Germany. Because of her John Major was put in a perilous position. He inherited a broken Britain with confidence amongst the working man at an all time low.   

[River Don]

To quote the epitaph of Sir Christopher Wren: "'Reader, if you seek his memorial - look around you."

The legacy of Thatcher is what we have now, 30 plus years of "there is no such thing as society" greed and individualistic thinking. It has produced a massively wealthy, peaceful society which is innovative and forward thinking. Of course it hasn't. In my youth I never saw a homeless person on the street, didn't know family's under threat of losing their homes, lived in a country that made things and was far more equal. That could not be tolerated by the greedy and unscrupulous, they wanted to move their wealth out and ensure the walls they built around themnselves could never be breached. There are now 32 Trillion dollars in the British Virgin Isles alone hidden away by the elite of this world. It is a marvellous society Thatcherism built, enjoy it if you can stomach it, it makes me ashamed to think that we spawned such a nasty, ignorant and heinous situation.

What nonsense Will , there were as many homeless and hungry folk on the streets of Doncaster in our youth and you bloody know it. Of course we also had a beautiful and shiny town too didn't we ?
Don't let the realities  of 30-40 years ago slip from your mind and fool you just because you want to be called a socialist. The reality was that we lived in a dirty, rundown town where folk worked bloody long hours underground or in a steelmill with all the attached industrial diseases and danger that went with it and btw there wasn't alot to go around for the vast majority pre or post Thatcher. Sorry fella but that's my memory, now if you can point out what the average Doncastrian doesn't have now that they had then then I would have to seriously reconsider your post.

It may have been a dirty old town but at least it was pulling things out of the ground, adding value to them and selling them. This is real wealth.

Industry in the North had suffered through a lack of investment and modernisation for years. Thatchers solution was to close it all down, what easier way to destroy the unions than to close all their industry? Throwing the baby out with the bathwater is a colossal understatement.

Where there had been steel mills they built shopping malls and superstores, they liberalised finance which released a tidal wave of credit which helped create the housing bubble we have now and the mountain of debt that is bringing our economy down.

If only we had been a bit more like the Germans and invested in manufacturing, instead of casinos.

And one more thing to contemplate, was the country in a worse state at the end of the 70s brought down by inefficiency and the unions...

Or now after unregulated global finance, unleashed by Thatcher and Reagan, has done it's work?

I look at the state of the UK, The States, Japan and most all Europe and the prospects for the future are deeply depressing.

[Filo]

Thatchers Britain, freedom of movement denied in a "democratic" country

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTzEYq8W0fs" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTzEYq8W0fs</a>



P.S. there`s a few familiar faces on that Vid

[scriptman]

hoolahoop, apologies about not addressing your question early. I only had a brief time to view this forum. Ok, you disagree about the 'managed decline of northern England'? Capitalism has its roots in functionalism philosophy. For a capitalist society to operate effectively it requires an underclass. It needs to offset high earners with low paid workers.  Thatcher’s idea (in basic terms) was to divert the wagers paid to 10 miners in order to fund one city boy. Her policies managed the decline. She was well aware of the impact such policies would have on the northern industrial towns and cities.  I am not saying that the UK didn’t need to change direction in the late 70s but it should have evolved into the capital regime the same way West Germany did.  You compare the standard of living favourably today to the 1970s but don’t forget Labour was in power for 13 years, under which we saw the introduction of the minimum wage and the development of huge projects in the Doncaster area. What would it have been like if the Tories remained in power after 1997?  We'll have first hand experience of that in the next couple of years.     

[Filo]

Estimated cost to the UK Government for her funeral is £10M and William Hague says the Government can afford it!


Disgraceful! Disability benefits are being slashed in the name of cost cutting and they`re going to spend around £10M on burning this cow!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22086690

[hoolahoop]

To quote the epitaph of Sir Christopher Wren: "'Reader, if you seek his memorial - look around you."

The legacy of Thatcher is what we have now, 30 plus years of "there is no such thing as society" greed and individualistic thinking. It has produced a massively wealthy, peaceful society which is innovative and forward thinking. Of course it hasn't. In my youth I never saw a homeless person on the street, didn't know family's under threat of losing their homes, lived in a country that made things and was far more equal. That could not be tolerated by the greedy and unscrupulous, they wanted to move their wealth out and ensure the walls they built around themnselves could never be breached. There are now 32 Trillion dollars in the British Virgin Isles alone hidden away by the elite of this world. It is a marvellous society Thatcherism built, enjoy it if you can stomach it, it makes me ashamed to think that we spawned such a nasty, ignorant and heinous situation.

What nonsense Will , there were as many homeless and hungry folk on the streets of Doncaster in our youth and you bloody know it. Of course we also had a beautiful and shiny town too didn't we ?
Don't let the realities  of 30-40 years ago slip from your mind and fool you just because you want to be called a socialist. The reality was that we lived in a dirty, rundown town where folk worked bloody long hours underground or in a steelmill with all the attached industrial diseases and danger that went with it and btw there wasn't alot to go around for the vast majority pre or post Thatcher. Sorry fella but that's my memory, now if you can point out what the average Doncastrian doesn't have now that they had then then I would have to seriously reconsider your post.

ICI, International Harvesters/McCormicks, Plant Works, Coal Mines, Shipyard (Thorne), Pilkington Glass.


Many thousands of jobs that were never replaced, the ones that were replaced were on the minimum wage, massive amounts of money was taken out of the local economy, and even today the area suffers from the brutal policies of Thatcher!

Filo I worked at IH at this time in Industrial Relations and that company struggled for years before pulling out and closed plants as they were unable to compete in that market. Thatcher did NOT do their Sales and Marketing and did NOT contrary to your assertion have anything to do with it's collapse and subsequent sale. Indeed successive owners could not keep this business going.
She did NOT cause the demise of Pilkingtons Glass either, please supply your evidence for both these assertions.
As for the pits, they were already in decline and demand for coal internationally had shrunk as north sea oil and gasas well as nuclear power was intruduced on a large scale. The demand for coal generally had shrunk substantially compared to what it was in the early and middle 20th century. Conveniently you ignore these facts to peddle your socialist 'the witch hated the north' mentality.
However I agree with you re. the Plant Works but this was caused by long term policies of not only her government but that of previous Labour administrations and both partiesshould be ashamed of their short-sightedness in this regard.

[Filo]

The demand for coal never shrunk, UK coal was replaced by cheap foreign imported coal, once the majority of the pits were closed that imported coal all of a sudden was n`t cheap any more. It`s criminal that this country sits on vast reserves of coal most of it inaccessible now because of thatchers short sighted policies and desire to break the unions!

[BillyStubbsTears]

I see Clarkson's been invited to the funeral.

Imagine the scene. You've just lost the matriarch of your family. You are bereft by grief. You wonder how life could get any worse. Then you look round and see that troll-faced, arse-less c*** gurning at you.

I'm actually starting to feel sorry for Mark Thatcher.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Fact is we shouldn't be using coal or gas any more, technology is there not to.  But then we wouldn't want to lose all the taxes by using alternative methods would we?

[scriptman]

To quote the epitaph of Sir Christopher Wren: "'Reader, if you seek his memorial - look around you."

The legacy of Thatcher is what we have now, 30 plus years of "there is no such thing as society" greed and individualistic thinking. It has produced a massively wealthy, peaceful society which is innovative and forward thinking. Of course it hasn't. In my youth I never saw a homeless person on the street, didn't know family's under threat of losing their homes, lived in a country that made things and was far more equal. That could not be tolerated by the greedy and unscrupulous, they wanted to move their wealth out and ensure the walls they built around themnselves could never be breached. There are now 32 Trillion dollars in the British Virgin Isles alone hidden away by the elite of this world. It is a marvellous society Thatcherism built, enjoy it if you can stomach it, it makes me ashamed to think that we spawned such a nasty, ignorant and heinous situation.

What nonsense Will , there were as many homeless and hungry folk on the streets of Doncaster in our youth and you bloody know it. Of course we also had a beautiful and shiny town too didn't we ?
Don't let the realities  of 30-40 years ago slip from your mind and fool you just because you want to be called a socialist. The reality was that we lived in a dirty, rundown town where folk worked bloody long hours underground or in a steelmill with all the attached industrial diseases and danger that went with it and btw there wasn't alot to go around for the vast majority pre or post Thatcher. Sorry fella but that's my memory, now if you can point out what the average Doncastrian doesn't have now that they had then then I would have to seriously reconsider your post.

ICI, International Harvesters/McCormicks, Plant Works, Coal Mines, Shipyard (Thorne), Pilkington Glass.


Many thousands of jobs that were never replaced, the ones that were replaced were on the minimum wage, massive amounts of money was taken out of the local economy, and even today the area suffers from the brutal policies of Thatcher!

Filo I worked at IH at this time in Industrial Relations and that company struggled for years before pulling out and closed plants as they were unable to compete in that market. Thatcher did NOT do their Sales and Marketing and did NOT contrary to your assertion have anything to do with it's collapse and subsequent sale. Indeed successive owners could not keep this business going.
She did NOT cause the demise of Pilkingtons Glass either, please supply your evidence for both these assertions.
As for the pits, they were already in decline and demand for coal internationally had shrunk as north sea oil and gasas well as nuclear power was intruduced on a large scale. The demand for coal generally had shrunk substantially compared to what it was in the early and middle 20th century. Conveniently you ignore these facts to peddle your socialist 'the witch hated the north' mentality.
However I agree with you re. the Plant Works but this was caused by long term policies of not only her government but that of previous Labour administrations and both partiesshould be ashamed of their short-sightedness in this regard.

The demand for coal was in decline in the 1970s and the NUM was aware of this, hence they oversaw the closure of almost 80 pits from 1970-1980. Of the 50k miners who were laid off, some were voluntary redundancies, some transferred to other pits, and the others were helped by the unions to find alternative jobs. You see that is what the unions did…they helped the common man. After Thatcher crushed the unions, during her tenure, 120 pits were closed, 200k miners lost their jobs, and these were left without an ounce of compassion or help from the despicable Thatcher and her cronies.

You say you were in Industrial Relations at International Harvester UK in the late 70s to early 80s?  Then you will be aware of the huge contract from the Far East and the fact they (IH UK) rued the decision to merge Carr Hill with Wheatley Hall Road?  The reason why IH (Case, McCormick) ultimately closed down was solely due to escalating production costs. As Filo suggested, Thatcher sought to import cheaper coal and steel from abroad but then went on to sell it at very high cost to power stations and other industries. She also privatised gas, electric, and industries saw their fuel bill rise enormously.

I despise Thatcher, not because she managed the closure of industries, some of this was inevitable in an ever changing world, but she left communities to rot in the wake of her decisions. Whist other countries managed the decline of industries, and supported the ones laid off, the Tory government did absolute nothing. When Thatcher defeated the miners she stood on the steps of Downing Street and gloated. She gloated at the fact she destroyed peoples’ lives, jobs, and communities.   


Your assertions, which let’s face it, tantamount to the glory and praise of Thatcher, is totally misguided in a place like Doncaster. You are entitled to your opinion of course, but to heap this on people who fell victim to her policies is a tad smug. Thatcher was undeniably to blame for mass unemployment, the decimation of communities, and the ‘managed’ decline of industrial towns and cities.  Because of her, here in the modern day, we have a trade deficit of £165 billion, simply because we have little in the manufacturing sector to sell. Italy, France, South Korea, all export more than we do. The Netherlands, a country with the quarter of our population have a significantly higher export than we do. As Thatcher destroyed our coal, textile, motor, steel industries, the above countries protected theirs.           

As a footnote, you do realise we, as a country, are consuming 64 million tonnes of coal a year, which incidentally accounts for 40% of our electricity. In 1979 the UK produced 130 million tonnes, which is almost double the consumption of today. The difference being of course is that 45 million tonnes today is being imported. The irony in all of this is that this government realise that home coal is a sustainable energy for the UK and are currently spending millions on clean coal projects.