Sorry SoD

[RedJ]

I do sometimes wonder if he peaked with us. For example, there must be loads of what we would call 'shit' managers who have a promotion or two on their CV's. Im not calling him shit however its possible when he retires he looks back and we were the high point, everything else was pretty average/poor.

He did a superb job at Bourenmouth despite budget constraints, average managers are the likes of Kevin Blackwell and Michael Appleton NOT our SOD.

Then he did averagely with a fair amount of cash at Forest, and while harshly sacked could have been doing better really, and completely failed to turn around Bristol last season and is heading in the same direction again.

Oh, and I notice my reply with Jenny's addition regarding Crawley's been ignored, conveniently...

[Savvy]

It isn't looking good though is it? You only have to look at the statistics someone posted re his last 100 league games.... I would be astonished if he made it past Christmas in his present job. I have a good friend who is a BCFC fan and has always backed So'D but even his support is wavering now . Everything he has said to me its like a mirror image of what happened towards the end here.

Yes, his teams play nice football, but to be honest, I prefer winning games, and I am sure that most people would be the same. It is okay when that nice football is bringing about results, but his problem is he doesn't seem to be able to change it when it isn't. I don't call that honourable, I call it stupid.

You have to work with what you have in management, you can't continually try and fit square pegs in round holes. If you have players who can't play the way that you want them to, then for me, you have to adapt your own style and what you want to have some compromise. If I came in to work tomorrow, reshuffled my team, told them that things were changing and swapped their roles to something they wouldn't be comfortable with, I doubt I would last very long...

I feel sorry for the guy, because he isn't going to be remembered for getting us playing nice tippy tappy football and winning a couple of trophys, he is going to be remembered for being pretty much a failure ever since.

I also find it funny that people call him honourable etc - I wonder what Crawley would say about that?

What a perfectly ridiculous statistic to rely on!!!! I'm suprised someone as educated as you would fall for such a spurious fact.  His last 100 games have been played against different teams, in different leagues with different players at different clubs!!!!! Some of the comments from some contributors on this thread are just pathetic!!!! 

I'm with Martin B and lifelong supporter on this one, and agree that some of the best football since 1969 at least has been played under both O'Driscoll and Penny without exception!!! 

[wilts rover]

Lots of talk on the Bristol forums about Holloway coming in. No way I thought, he is safe at Palace.....what do I know.

[podrover73]

It isn't looking good though is it? You only have to look at the statistics someone posted re his last 100 league games.... I would be astonished if he made it past Christmas in his present job. I have a good friend who is a BCFC fan and has always backed So'D but even his support is wavering now . Everything he has said to me its like a mirror image of what happened towards the end here.

Yes, his teams play nice football, but to be honest, I prefer winning games, and I am sure that most people would be the same. It is okay when that nice football is bringing about results, but his problem is he doesn't seem to be able to change it when it isn't. I don't call that honourable, I call it stupid.

You have to work with what you have in management, you can't continually try and fit square pegs in round holes. If you have players who can't play the way that you want them to, then for me, you have to adapt your own style and what you want to have some compromise. If I came in to work tomorrow, reshuffled my team, told them that things were changing and swapped their roles to something they wouldn't be comfortable with, I doubt I would last very long...

I feel sorry for the guy, because he isn't going to be remembered for getting us playing nice tippy tappy football and winning a couple of trophys, he is going to be remembered for being pretty much a failure ever since.

I also find it funny that people call him honourable etc - I wonder what Crawley would say about that?

What a perfectly ridiculous statistic to rely on!!!! I'm suprised someone as educated as you would fall for such a spurious fact.  His last 100 games have been played against different teams, in different leagues with different players at different clubs!!!!! Some of the comments from some contributors on this thread are just pathetic!!!! 

I'm with Martin B and lifelong supporter on this one, and agree that some of the best football since 1969 at least has been played under both O'Driscoll and Penny without exception!!! 

I agree Savvy , but this debate will split Rovers fans until the end of time and every time the guy is mentioned he will be a king or a pauper depending on your view

[tommy toes]

Just watched that interview. I really feel for him and hope they let him continue.
I've been watching Rovers for 50 years and the football we played under him, with, let's not forget, players who were by no means top drawer, was by far the best AND at the highest level during those 50 years.
He is a football genius and the only reason he left here was due to the horrendous injury list we had at the end of his reign.

[Lifelong supporter]

I'm surprised at how the subject of SOD continues to divide supporters, even now, particularly some of the comments by Jenny whose opinion I've always respected.
In one of her posts she says critically 'he doesn't seem able to change it' and in the next paragraph states 'if I came in to work tomorrow, reshuffled my team, told them that things were changing and swapped their roles to something they wouldn't be comfortable with, I doubt I would last very long...' Surely somewhat contradictory is it not?
I did hold him in high regard, considered him an excellent manager...and still do now.
Regarding the 'loyalty debate' he passed up the job at Burnley (or was prevented from going by us) and then we gave him the chop. Can't remember him wanting to leave for any other club while he was here but maybe you can enlighten us. And, in my opinion, we did treat him badly when he got the boot by not paying him up immediately and making him wait for his money.
He will always be remembered as a success by me and, for what it's worth, I think he is an honorable man...or as close to it as you can get in football these days. 

[not on facebook]

Good things come in twos

Fish and chips

Pint and another pint

Left Shoe and a right Shoe

Beans on toast

A fag and a light

Morcombe and wise

Daglish and rush

Kitchen and ocallagan


All above were far better as two,on Their own and none were as good or effective.

I know give you .....JR and SOD or SOD and JR

They both was good for each other

[Lifelong supporter]

Maybe, just maybe JR has learned the knack of getting the best out of his managers?

Saunders/Flynn, SOD, Penney, and now Dickov, after a relatively disappointing start with Ian S and Wignall

Edit: I know that's a bit hard on Ian S who did a lot of good things as well.

Dutch, I remember the Conference days very well and, while it might have been a bit harsh on Ian S, I think you are right in saying JR didn't get the best out of him simply because he never had a proper chance. No manager wanted to do better for Rovers than Ian but he took over in worse circumstances than any other manager past or present and never really had any money to spend. Unlike Wignall, who did get financial backing but was probably the most ineffectual manager we've had since I've been watching - apart from the Richardson days, of course. Since then you're dead right, JR has learned a hell of a lot and probably has a better record for picking managers than anybody.

[wilts rover]

Lifelong, does this jog your memory

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1340475/Sheffield-United-Sean-ODriscoll-granted-permission-open-talks-Doncaster.html

[Alickismyhero]

I'm surprised at how the subject of SOD continues to divide supporters, even now, particularly some of the comments by Jenny whose opinion I've always respected.
In one of her posts she says critically 'he doesn't seem able to change it' and in the next paragraph states 'if I came in to work tomorrow, reshuffled my team, told them that things were changing and swapped their roles to something they wouldn't be comfortable with, I doubt I would last very long...' Surely somewhat contradictory is it not?
I did hold him in high regard, considered him an excellent manager...and still do now.
Regarding the 'loyalty debate' he passed up the job at Burnley (or was prevented from going by us) and then we gave him the chop. Can't remember him wanting to leave for any other club while he was here but maybe you can enlighten us. And, in my opinion, we did treat him badly when he got the boot by not paying him up immediately and making him wait for his money.
He will always be remembered as a success by me and, for what it's worth, I think he is an honorable man...or as close to it as you can get in football these days. 

LS,
You make some very good points that I fully concur with come to think of it I can't disagree with anything you said.

REDJ
Are you referring to me not answering your question? if so could you repeat it? Sorry if I missed it, it certainly was not intentional.

[not on facebook]

May i Add rubarb and custord

[The Red Baron]

Lifelong, does this jog your memory

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1340475/Sheffield-United-Sean-ODriscoll-granted-permission-open-talks-Doncaster.html

Was that really SO'D's fault though? Sheffield United dealt with the affair in a wholly unprofessional manner- effectively using the local press to tap him up.

It does set up one of those great counter-factual sporting debates though- what would have happened to the respective clubs' fortunes if SO'D HAD taken the Blunts job in late 2010/ early 2011?

[The Red Baron]

Maybe, just maybe JR has learned the knack of getting the best out of his managers?

Saunders/Flynn, SOD, Penney, and now Dickov, after a relatively disappointing start with Ian S and Wignall

Edit: I know that's a bit hard on Ian S who did a lot of good things as well.

Dutch, I remember the Conference days very well and, while it might have been a bit harsh on Ian S, I think you are right in saying JR didn't get the best out of him simply because he never had a proper chance. No manager wanted to do better for Rovers than Ian but he took over in worse circumstances than any other manager past or present and never really had any money to spend. Unlike Wignall, who did get financial backing but was probably the most ineffectual manager we've had since I've been watching - apart from the Richardson days, of course. Since then you're dead right, JR has learned a hell of a lot and probably has a better record for picking managers than anybody.

Ian's problem was that he over-achieved in 1998-99 (winning the Bob Lord Trophy) and then couldn't meet the heightened expecations for 1999-2000. He was also unlucky with more than one signing. Having said that, I thought JR had to do what he did or we'd have been down in the Unibond League.

[The Red Baron]

Lots of talk on the Bristol forums about Holloway coming in. No way I thought, he is safe at Palace.....what do I know.

That'd go down like a lead balloon, as Holloway is a Gashead. Unless he's replacing John Ward, of course!

[Copps is Magic]

If you have given some foresight into who you have appointed as a manager (Which I presume City did) then the minimum time they should be given is 12 months (i.e. one season) incorporating a pre-season. That is the bare minimum time I would give to a manager if I was ever running a club. SOD hasn't had that at Bristol.

Some of the comments on this thread stink of the short-termism that has polluted football in recent years.

I don't know what anyone else remembers of SOD but I remember the promotion, 4 seasons in the championship, JPT trophy, and becoming known globally for a particular style of football.  That some posters (such as Jenny) are attempting to rewrite history by suggesting SOD was an un-adaptable, unloyal manager who didn't win games is outright disgraceful IMO.

[GM-MarkB]

May i Add rubarb and custord

How about Dictionary and the ability to spell 

[The Red Baron]

I'm surprised at how the subject of SOD continues to divide supporters, even now, particularly some of the comments by Jenny whose opinion I've always respected.
In one of her posts she says critically 'he doesn't seem able to change it' and in the next paragraph states 'if I came in to work tomorrow, reshuffled my team, told them that things were changing and swapped their roles to something they wouldn't be comfortable with, I doubt I would last very long...' Surely somewhat contradictory is it not?
I did hold him in high regard, considered him an excellent manager...and still do now.
Regarding the 'loyalty debate' he passed up the job at Burnley (or was prevented from going by us) and then we gave him the chop. Can't remember him wanting to leave for any other club while he was here but maybe you can enlighten us. And, in my opinion, we did treat him badly when he got the boot by not paying him up immediately and making him wait for his money.
He will always be remembered as a success by me and, for what it's worth, I think he is an honorable man...or as close to it as you can get in football these days. 

Best manager we've had in my time, end of story. Penney and Bremner did great things for the club but SO'D took us to the next level.

I hope I'll be able to add Dickov to the pantheon one day.

[Alickismyhero]

Young Dicky has done a fantastic job so far when you consider what he had to deal with:

-he never had a full team signed until the week before the season started,
-no pre season to talk of,
-all the rubbish about the £40m investment,
-poor ref decisions,
-lucky Wigan and Forest.

Just wait till Friday, poor Borough.

[BigColSutherland]

May i Add rubarb and custord

I'll add SOD and ROK

[Wellred]

i'll add tippy tappy

[Alickismyhero]

"Tippy tappy football"

Happy days, WR Happy days.

 I just love it when Young Dicky plays the same way with the added

 "If 2 strkers can't do it he puts  3 strikers on"

[BobG]

Actually, if you all cast your minds back to the last dozen or so games of the season before we came down, SOD did change the style of play. It was horrible to watch, but it ground out enough draws to keep us up.

It's funny how selective memories can become when arguing a particular point isn't it?

Still, this is indeed an interesting thread. And it poses questions that will never ever be resolved one way or the other. The position people take depends just too much on experience, upbringing, intelligence, insight, their degree of ambition, their level of realism and their personal preference.

I love the bloke personally. I don't expect everyone else to love him just because I do though. I liked his intelligence, his honesty, the way he refused to play the press and tv game, the way he abused some of those  loathsome creatures. i loved his footy - even when we didn't win. I've seen nigh on 50 years of generally pretty bloody uninspiring footer from the Rovers - with the occasional better interlude of course. So my ambition is low. I was just gobsmacked, delighted, with that beautiful game he played. I really didn't care if we won or lost. It was simply too good to watch - from bloody useless Donny Rovers ffs! We're living in a dream world - even today. Rovers being half decent, playing good footer, is a once in 60 year event. My aim then, and my aim now, is simply to enjoy it while it lasts. SOD brought that enjoyment to a peak of perfection I don't think I will ever see again - so my aim was to just enjoy it and take what comes. Other people want to win just about every game we play. Fine. But it sets up a lifetime of disappointment though....

BobG

[not on facebook]

May i Add rubarb and custord

How about Dictionary and the ability to spell 

That one Aswell fella

[BillyStubbsTears]

Bob

Bang on. He ALWAYS changed when the chips were down. He did it in the promotion season, bringing Green in and dropping Wilson after 9 baffling months of insisting that Wilson was the better choice.

He did it in the first season in the Championship, bringing Spicer and Heffernan in to give us the momentum and goalscoring that we needed, after 4 baffling months of insisting that Gareth Taylor and Lewis Guy were going to score goals for us, and that possession football in and of itself would hurt defences at this level.

He ALWAYS compromised. But only when he had no bloody alternative. The fact that these small compromises could produce such astonishingly successful sides is a testament to the basic foundation that he was building, which (I freely admit) I certainly didn't see at the time.

For a spell in early 10/11, he finally crafted the near perfect side. He finally CHOSE to set up a team that wasn't as cautiously possession-obsessed as his previous Plan A had been. Oster was the key. He would go for the Hail Mary pass (and often find the target) whereas previous incarnations of O'Driscoll's sides would have played the cautious build-up. We attacked with pace and verve and at times we looked irresistible. Easy to forget now, but if it wasn't for an injury time equaliser by Swansea, we'd have been in the top 4 in the Championship nearly half way through the season. And THAT was with Billy Sharp missing for many of the early matches. It's fascinating to think what he might have done if we hadn't then been crippled by injury.

[mushRTID]

Bob

Bang on. He ALWAYS changed when the chips were down. He did it in the promotion season, bringing Green in and dropping Wilson after 9 baffling months of insisting that Wilson was the better choice.

He did it in the first season in the Championship, bringing Spicer and Heffernan in to give us the momentum and goalscoring that we needed, after 4 baffling months of insisting that Gareth Taylor and Lewis Guy were going to score goals for us, and that possession football in and of itself would hurt defences at this level.

He ALWAYS compromised. But only when he had no bloody alternative. The fact that these small compromises could produce such astonishingly successful sides is a testament to the basic foundation that he was building, which (I freely admit) I certainly didn't see at the time.

For a spell in early 10/11, he finally crafted the near perfect side. He finally CHOSE to set up a team that wasn't as cautiously possession-obsessed as his previous Plan A had been. Oster was the key. He would go for the Hail Mary pass (and often find the target) whereas previous incarnations of O'Driscoll's sides would have played the cautious build-up. We attacked with pace and verve and at times we looked irresistible. Easy to forget now, but if it wasn't for an injury time equaliser by Swansea, we'd have been in the top 4 in the Championship nearly half way through the season. And THAT was with Billy Sharp missing for many of the early matches. It's fascinating to think what he might have done if we hadn't then been crippled by injury.

how do you remember all these dates, players, runs of form.....I can barely remember whats happened this season!

[CraigyBoy]

If sod was a painter and decorator and you hired him to paint your house white, he'd paint it white with a lovely mural of the inside of the Sistine chapel on it. Everyone would comment who marvellous your house looked, but after a year a light shower would wash it off and the walls of your house would cave in. I think the phrase is - living on past glories? Or promising more than you can deliver? Or I'm not up to the job and was over hyped from day one? Take your pick.

[Alickismyhero]

Well said Bob thats my lasting memory of the man.

 Even the point about enjoying games that we lost. One game stands out for me is Birmingham away. Birmingham  even went down to 10 players and we lost 1-0 but the standard of football we played that night left with the lasting memory of "we lost but I really enjoyed the game"

I feel his critics just don't or can't make the effort to understand Sean O'Driscoll but I feel honoured to have witnessed the  great man and his period at Donny.

I will send a copy of your comments to Sean I think he needs the support right now.

[BigColSutherland]

If sod was a painter and decorator and you hired him to paint your house white, he'd paint it white with a lovely mural of the inside of the Sistine chapel on it. Everyone would comment who marvellous your house looked, but after a year a light shower would wash it off and the walls of your house would cave in. I think the phrase is - living on past glories? Or promising more than you can deliver? Or I'm not up to the job and was over hyped from day one? Take your pick.

If sod was a painter and decorator and he was hired to paint a house white, he'd paint it white with a lovely mural of the inside of the Sistine chapel on it. Everyone would comment how marvellous the house looked, but then the owner of the house would ask for more murals. Everywhere. SOD would advise against it as it wasn't really affordable, but the owner of the house could see his neighbours' flash houses and wanted one the same.
After a few years paying for the upkeep of all the murals become impossible and the owner of the house would be forced to get rid of them, leaving nothing but a white house. The owner would try to make the best of the situation by borrowing some stencils from his mates, but in the end everyone would tell him it looked shit. And then the house would fall down, and everyone would blame...the painter and decorator.

[Lifelong supporter]

Lifelong, does this jog your memory

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1340475/Sheffield-United-Sean-ODriscoll-granted-permission-open-talks-Doncaster.html

Was that really SO'D's fault though? Sheffield United dealt with the affair in a wholly unprofessional manner- effectively using the local press to tap him up.

It does set up one of those great counter-factual sporting debates though- what would have happened to the respective clubs' fortunes if SO'D HAD taken the Blunts job in late 2010/ early 2011?

Exactly. The Blunts pursued SOD rather than the other way round and he took one look and said no thanks.

[Lifelong supporter]

Maybe, just maybe JR has learned the knack of getting the best out of his managers?

Saunders/Flynn, SOD, Penney, and now Dickov, after a relatively disappointing start with Ian S and Wignall

Edit: I know that's a bit hard on Ian S who did a lot of good things as well.

Dutch, I remember the Conference days very well and, while it might have been a bit harsh on Ian S, I think you are right in saying JR didn't get the best out of him simply because he never had a proper chance. No manager wanted to do better for Rovers than Ian but he took over in worse circumstances than any other manager past or present and never really had any money to spend. Unlike Wignall, who did get financial backing but was probably the most ineffectual manager we've had since I've been watching - apart from the Richardson days, of course. Since then you're dead right, JR has learned a hell of a lot and probably has a better record for picking managers than anybody.

Ian's problem was that he over-achieved in 1998-99 (winning the Bob Lord Trophy) and then couldn't meet the heightened expecations for 1999-2000. He was also unlucky with more than one signing. Having said that, I thought JR had to do what he did or we'd have been down in the Unibond League.

I enjoyed the Trophy as much as promotions and going to Wembley.
It was a wonderful night despite it being a tin pot competition and the opposition pretty poor.
It's all about opinions but I think if they had shown more faith in Ian and given him the financial backing they gave Wignall he could have been one of our best manager's ever.