Sometimes I despair

[River Don]

Today in the middle of town, I witnessed a mother admonishing her daughter of maybe nine years old with the words "why don't you go and f***ing cry to your Dad because he doesn't love you either"

While another bloke was telling this obnoxious woman exactly what he thought of her and a slanging match developed in the middle of the street, I quietly said to the crying little girl, tell your teacher about the things your mum says. I hope she does.

Maybe I should have done more but what can you do?

I don't know if I've ever see anything quite as appalling as this.

[BigColSutherland]

You can report this sort of thing to the police, as it falls under emotional abuse. You could also report an incident to social services, and it would be noted.

[River Don]

Amongst the tirade this scum woman's defence of her opinion, was "it's people like you who make me like this"...

Talk about failing to take responsibility.

There was no sign of helplessness or despair about this woman. Anger, hatred, defiance and a strange sort of pride is how I would describe her attitude.

[IC1967]

I'd have made a citizen's arrest and then rung for the police. This woman would then have been given a lecture about how much of a scumbag she was and that she should have been sterilised before she ever got the chance to have children. If she got violent I would have protected myself by punching her very hard in the face.

Hopefully she would have then learned her lesson and would be nice to her daughter in future.

[RedJ]

Well you couldn't have made a citizen's arrest...

Do you know, per chance, under what circumstances you're allowed to make one? because this doesn't fall into any of them...

[roversdude]

Another good advert for compulsory sterilisation

[IDM]

Well you couldn't have made a citizen's arrest...

Do you know, per chance, under what circumstances you're allowed to make one? because this doesn't fall into any of them...

If memory serves, you can make a citizens arrest for an offence which CAN result in a jail sentence of 5 years or more.  Not that the specific circumstances of an individual offence would warrant such a term, but that the offence in general could do so.  For example, "assault" in some circumstances can generate such a stretch, therefore you can perform a citizens arrest when someone hits someone else.  You need to be careful not to use specific terms like assault or GBH as they have specific meanings.   Also you wouldn't read someone placed under citizens arrest their rights.

This was the information I had some years ago, but I cannot be certain if anything has changed.

[RedJ]

Well you couldn't have made a citizen's arrest...

Do you know, per chance, under what circumstances you're allowed to make one? because this doesn't fall into any of them...

If memory serves, you can make a citizens arrest for an offence which CAN result in a jail sentence of 5 years or more.  Not that the specific circumstances of an individual offence would warrant such a term, but that the offence in general could do so.  For example, "assault" in some circumstances can generate such a stretch, therefore you can perform a citizens arrest when someone hits someone else.  You need to be careful not to use specific terms like assault or GBH as they have specific meanings.   Also you wouldn't read someone placed under citizens arrest their rights.

This was the information I had some years ago, but I cannot be certain if anything has changed.

Aye but there's nothing in the OP that would carry that kind of jail sentence. Not that I can see anyway.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Well you couldn't have made a citizen's arrest...

Do you know, per chance, under what circumstances you're allowed to make one? because this doesn't fall into any of them...

If memory serves, you can make a citizens arrest for an offence which CAN result in a jail sentence of 5 years or more.  Not that the specific circumstances of an individual offence would warrant such a term, but that the offence in general could do so.  For example, "assault" in some circumstances can generate such a stretch, therefore you can perform a citizens arrest when someone hits someone else.  You need to be careful not to use specific terms like assault or GBH as they have specific meanings.   Also you wouldn't read someone placed under citizens arrest their rights.

This was the information I had some years ago, but I cannot be certain if anything has changed.

Aye but there's nothing in the OP that would carry that kind of jail sentence. Not that I can see anyway.

No, because contrary to what someone else ahs mentioned, emotional abuse, while against the law when direct at an adult, is not against the law when against a child. There is an MP who is trying to get legislation though at the moment to make it against the law when directed at children.

Also, with regards to Citizen's Arrest, you can only make one if you personally have seen the offence committed. So smartarse Mick would have acted unlawfully on two counts.

[IDM]

I did a bit of reading since I posted.  Apparently for a citizens arrest, the offence needs to be one that would go to crown court, not magistrates.  Quite serious then, but not sure if 5 years still applies.

[IC1967]

I'd have still made a citizen's arrest. The lecture that I would have given the woman and the fact that I was restraining her would have hopefully angered her so much that she would have attacked me. This then would have given me the grounds for the arrest.

The worst that could have happened is that the nice policeman when he came would have advised me that I was in the wrong by arresting her. He would have explained that I did the right thing but unfortunately because the law is an ass I shouldn't have done it.

However I'm confident enough in my skills of goading that I'm sure she would have attacked me. I would  then have had her prosecuted and done my best to get her locked up. Sorted.

[andy didcott]

It's not true that you can't make a citizens arrest on somebody who is emotionally abusing a child or minor in a public place, because you can.

[IC1967]

Thank you Andy. I thought I was right. However I would have been prepared to use my commonsense  to bend the rules a bit if I had to for the greater good of the child.

It's time more adults stood up for abused children instead of hiding behind the law.

[IDM]

You can't arrest someone for something they haven't done yet?

However I'm confident enough in my skills of goading that I'm sure she would have attacked me. I would  then have had her prosecuted and done my best to get her locked up. Sorted.

But your goading would have mitigated her actions somewhat, thereby reducing the chances of a custodial sentence, even a conviction.

Part of me hopes you are only controversial online just to stimulate debate, and this is not your real persona.

[IDM]

It's not true that you can't make a citizens arrest on somebody who is emotionally abusing a child or minor in a public place, because you can.

Is it? Not doubting you one moment Andy, but I would be interested to hear chapter and verse on that.

[IC1967]

But your goading would have mitigated her actions somewhat, thereby reducing the chances of a custodial sentence, even a conviction.

She would not have gone to prison for abusing the child. My plan would have been to get her to hit me so I could get her prosecuted so she could then go to jail.

I've watched enough football matches to be able to make the attack look and seem a lot worse than it actually is thus improving the chances of conviction.

[IDM]

You don't think your provocation would be relevant to the case for the defence then?

[Dagenham Rover]

I'd have still made a citizen's arrest. The lecture that I would have given the woman and the fact that I was restraining her would have hopefully angered her so much that she would have attacked me. This then would have given me the grounds for the arrest.

The worst that could have happened is that the nice policeman when he came would have advised me that I was in the wrong by arresting her. He would have explained that I did the right thing but unfortunately because the law is an ass I shouldn't have done it.

However I'm confident enough in my skills of goading that I'm sure she would have attacked me. I would  then have had her prosecuted and done my best to get her locked up. Sorted.

Actually the "nice policeman" could arrest you for false imprisonment, kidnap or attempted kidnapping, abh, gbh or a multitude of other things   

[BillyStubbsTears]

I get visions of Beavis & Butthead behind the Mick persona

"Heh-heh, heh-heh. Let's like....wind somebody up about....like....citizen's arrest."

"Huh-huh, huh. Heh-heh heh. That'd be like...cool."

"Shut it butt-munch."

"Heh-heh, heh. Heh-heh, heh."

[IC1967]

I'm being totally serious. One way or the other the bitch would have gone to prison.

[Donny Dub]

Poor child and I can imagine what that girl must see and hear at home.  She'll be mentally scarred for her life.  It's child abuse no less.  You'd have got my support with whatever you were trying to do to protect her.  Good man you.

[Glyn_Wigley]

It's not true that you can't make a citizens arrest on somebody who is emotionally abusing a child or minor in a public place, because you can.

What's the crime?

[IDM]

Lets not let a hypothetical debate about citizens arrest get in the way of what the OP has posted - a child was in distress and being dealt with by her mother in a way most of us (I assume) would think unacceptable.

Perhaps the OP could contact social services (or the police), with an estimate of where and when this occurred.  It may be that the incident was caught on CCTV.  Whilst that would not have picked up on what was said, it may help social services identify the child and parent.  It may be that they are known to the authorities already, and couple the visual recordings with the OP's witness statements would be useful evidence for the authorities.

This may or may not have been an isolated incident and it is impossible to judge the whole situation just on one incident.  To goad the parent into further incidents ie inciting violence may even be an offence in itself?  I dunno?  It is certainly irresponsible - how does inciting violence protect that child, especially in the immediate moments?

[BigColSutherland]

Emotional abuse can be reported to the police or social services. If either feel it breaches the Children Act, i.e. represents significant harm, then they can begin safeguarding or child protection measures.

[IC1967]

To goad the parent into further incidents ie inciting violence may even be an offence in itself?  I dunno?  It is certainly irresponsible - how does inciting violence protect that child, especially in the immediate moments?

It protects the child because when I get my Oscar for my performance after she's hit me a few times she goes straight into custody and then after the court case to prison.

[IDM]

To goad the parent into further incidents ie inciting violence may even be an offence in itself?  I dunno?  It is certainly irresponsible - how does inciting violence protect that child, especially in the immediate moments?

It protects the child because when I get my Oscar for my performance after she's hit me a few times she goes straight into custody and then after the court case to prison.

You weren't there, so your proposed antics are hypothetical and would most likely not work.  Incitement would probably cause the case to collapse and you could face action yourself.  You think that inciting volence in front of a child would do any good for that child's protection issues?

Anyway, what are you going on about oscar winning for, when a REAL incident has happened.

[IC1967]

I'm giving advice as to what people should do if they see a similar incident. I can only go on what I would do.

Reporting her to Doncaster Social Services would be a right waste of time. I seem to remember seeing on the news that they are the worst in the country. In this instance we need to take the law into our own hands and get the result that the child needs through fair means or foul.

[IDM]

I'm giving advice as to what people should do if they see a similar incident. I can only go on what I would do.

Reporting her to Doncaster Social Services would be a right waste of time. I seem to remember seeing on the news that they are the worst in the country. In this instance we need to take the law into our own hands and get the result that the child needs through fair means or foul.

And that would be a disaster.  To enable child protection to work you must work within the law and within the child protection procedures the authorities employ.  Your actions would fuel any defence case this woman may have, which could cause a judge to order that the child remains with her, never mind not convict her.

You assume it would be Doncaster social services involved - initially maybe, but if the family in question lives in an area that is under a different council authority, then the latter would take responsibility for child protection matters from a social services perspective.

This is a real case - the proper authorities should be informed. 

[jonnydog]

http://www.theguardian.com/law/2011/aug/09/guide-to-citizens-arrest

[IDM]

Today in the middle of town, I witnessed a mother admonishing her daughter of maybe nine years old with the words "why don't you go and f***ing cry to your Dad because he doesn't love you either"

While another bloke was telling this obnoxious woman exactly what he thought of her and a slanging match developed in the middle of the street, I quietly said to the crying little girl, tell your teacher about the things your mum says. I hope she does.

Maybe I should have done more but what can you do?

I don't know if I've ever see anything quite as appalling as this.

Go report what you saw, today if you can.  Try and contact the child services at the local council authority if you can.  Even if there is nothing they can do for this specific incident, they could retain your information for future reference should this family come under their investigation later.