Lost generation rubbish...

[Savvy]

Never said you did Billy, after all its a word that's sadly lacking throughout the club nowadays! How do we compare with big clubs like Wigan, Reading, Swansea?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Well aye. I'll see your Wigan, Reading and Swansea and raise you Luton, Oxford, Bristol Rovers, Tranmere, Carlisle, Notts County, Plymouth, Grimsby, Lincoln, Stockport, Oldham.

Every one of those has had big advantages over us at some time in my lifetime, be it bigger gates, bigger catchment, historical success or recent success. Every one has been seen as a similar level club as us at some time in my lifetime.

 I wouldn't swap our position or club management with any of them. Our ambition hasn't been so bad.

[BobG]

If we move the goal posts a bit and rephrase the question to 'Which other club has a 50 year history of mismanagement on the scale that DRFC has suffered?' Who would you come up with? My suggestion: Wednesday - but I don't think they've had it as badly as the Rovers.

BobG

[Lifelong supporter]

Nobody had it as bad as Rovers during the Richardson years, but over a 50 year period I don't think we've done too badly.

[BobG]

Ye Gods man! You don't recall the 20+ year idiocies of Hubert Bates then? The fatuous Boards of the 70''s? Rovers are unequivocally amongst the worst led clubs of the last 60 years.

BobG

[Muttley]

Ye Gods man! You don't recall the 20+ year idiocies of Hubert Bates then? The fatuous Boards of the 70''s? Rovers are unequivocally amongst the worst led clubs of the last 60 years.

BobG

Bob, please enlighten us about the "the 20+ year idiocies of Hubert Bates", and I don't mean the usual hearsay about him being anti-Catholic/anti-Irish.

Have you got anything else?

[GazLaz]

He sounds like a serial killer with that name.

[Bentley Bullet]

Hubert  Bates was much maligned for being frugal with his money, which compared to our present board was somewhat limited. His lack of desire to take Rovers to the next level  (up) resulted in the Rovers fans hating him, some still to this day. Funny though how these same people consider the present day frugality to be the correct policy!

[Bristol Red Rover]

Hubert  Bates was much maligned for being frugal with his money, which compared to our present board was somewhat limited. His lack of desire to take Rovers to the next level  (up) resulted in the Rovers fans hating him, some still to this day. Funny though how these same people consider the present day frugality to be the correct policy!

Is the frugality of that period really comparable to the current situation? I think investment at the moment is proportionally higher now, however you measure it.

[Bentley Bullet]

So are the rewards.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

So are the risks.

[Bentley Bullet]

So is the risk of lacking risks. It tends to lead to relegation.

[Filo]

So is the risk of lacking risks. It tends to lead to relegation.

Apart from the season before last when virtually a whole squad was recruited whilst cutting the playing budget when we got promoted. Yet this season when a bit of money was thrown at it during the January transfer window we got relegated!

[Bentley Bullet]

The difference there was paying peanuts for a league one side which wouldn't have stood a chance in the championship. To survive in the Championship you have to invest competitively, or get relegated.

[Filo]

The difference there was paying peanuts for a league one side which wouldn't have stood a chance in the championship. To survive in the Championship you have to invest competitively, or get relegated.

Everyone seemed to think we invested well in the January transfer window, yet we got relegated

[Bentley Bullet]

Investment doesn't guarantee success but the lack of it does guarantee failure.

[silent majority]

Strangely enough our biggest spend ever on players salaries was during the 2011/12 season, otherwise known as the experiment. That £10m had us relegated with several games to go. So much for ambition and reaching out for the PL.

[Filo]

Investment doesn't guarantee success but the lack of it does guarantee failure.

Here we go round in a full circle again, the L1 title was a failure then?

[Bentley Bullet]

Investment doesn't guarantee success but the lack of it does guarantee failure.

Here we go round in a full circle again, the L1 title was a failure then?

No it was a huge success, based on a massive amount of luck.

[Filo]

Investment doesn't guarantee success but the lack of it does guarantee failure.

Here we go round in a full circle again, the L1 title was a failure then?

No it was a huge success, based on a massive amount of luck.

But you said lack of investment guarantee's failure, in this case it did n't guarantee it

[Bentley Bullet]

But it does, and it did - eventually!

[Filo]

But it does, and it did - eventually!

When did failure eventually occur?

[Bentley Bullet]

But it does, and it did - eventually!

When did failure eventually occur?

When we couldn't sustain our Championship status.

Are you saying we won the League one title BECAUSE of our lack of investment, or DESPITE it?

[Filo]

But it does, and it did - eventually!

When did failure eventually occur?

When we couldn't sustain our Championship status.

Are you saying we won the League one title BECAUSE of our lack of investment, or DESPITE it?

We're getting there, the first time we lost our championship status we invested heavily in the experiment, when we bounced straight back we had a vastly reduced budget (less investment), by your reasoning we should have failed, we didn't. The second time we lost our championship status we invested in players like Miete, Tamas, Sharp and extended Wellens contract, but still got relegated, where you say we were lucky to win L1, I'll counter that with we were unlucky to be relegated.

[Lifelong supporter]

Ye Gods man! You don't recall the 20+ year idiocies of Hubert Bates then? The fatuous Boards of the 70''s? Rovers are unequivocally amongst the worst led clubs of the last 60 years.

BobG

Bates was a peripheral figure on the Board for many of those years - just another director with not a massive amountl of influence.
There was a period when he did seem to be dictating matters in not a good way but I don't think he was an ogre who affected us for decades.
Does anyone remember if and when he was chairman?

[Bentley Bullet]

I was of the understanding that the experiment was the cheapest option for survival! if that was heavy investment it surely wasn't financial, was it?

The vastly reduced budget for the following league one season proved to be enough to win the league, albeit rather fortunately. That just proves the difference in the quality of the two leagues more than anything else.

We did buy some quality players last season, and at one bit it looked like we would survive, despite the injuries/lack of strength in depth/biased refereeing, etc. It turned out the squad wasn't strong enough to overcome those elements though.

Perhaps just a little more money spent might have pulled us up to a mid-table position, thus benefitting the overall investment.

[Al4475]

Maybe so - but I think (and I may well be very left field here) that pd's january requests were for the board to fund deals for sharp, meite and tamas with should have been enough to see us safe - we got his targets and unfortunately still came up short. The board (according to both pd and gb) have pretty much always given pd what he asked for - maybe (and it's pure speculation obviously) asking for a couple more players would've delivered! Let's not forget we lost khumalo, picked up bowery, lost sharp to indiscipline and wellens to injury! I think the board carried out the manager's requests and would've gone further had the right questions been asked! We should've been safe with games to spare but various things transpired against us - tough to take but we got up the previous season in a similar manner although we should've (in my opinion) been up well before we were as well as safe well before we weren't the following season - is there any blame attached to anyone - probably not!

[BillyStubbsTears]

BB

Lack of strength in depth last season?

Turnbull
Johnstone
Wabara
Quinn
Neill
Tamas
Jones
Khumalo
McCullough
Meite
Husband
Stevens
Cotterill
Duffy
Forrester
Coppinger
Wellens
Keegan
Furman
Brown
Robinson
Macheda
Sharp
Bowery

24 players there. Every one of them was capable of doing a job in a lower-table Championship side. Not one of them was out of their depth in a side finishing in, say 18th place. Most are a good bit better than that. 

How much more strength or depth do you think we should have had?

[Bentley Bullet]

When was every member of that squad available for selection at any one time? When was every member of that squad at the club at one time?!!

I'd have quite liked to see a Mecheda/Sharp combination..........Jones/Tamas........Fernandez/Forrester......

[BillyStubbsTears]

BB

You're missing the point. We couldn't possibly have a squad of that quality and depth at any given time. The point is that we invested to bring in players of that quality as and when we needed them.

I'm saying to you, how far over and above that investment do you think we should have gone?