The Trust so far

[Alickismyhero]

OK I am bored!

The target of the trust is £2m and its raised £675000 so far leaving £1325000 over the next 16 days. So to hit the target it needs to raise £82000 per day every day for 16 days!

Don't hold me to the accuracy of my maths but if by accident I got it right there is an awful long way to go. No wonder that the club are saying they may extend the date. The only problem with that is by the funds own rules say they can't extend the date and get the funds donated so far.

The new regime can't allow this method of raising funds to fail and I can see a lot of high donations coming in towards the end.

Perhaps thats where the celebs come in to play, the final push to get it over the line, but still no news of them coming to the show! but why? we need them now.

[Alickismyhero]

Come to think of it has it been announced who the celebs are? I was told 4 names but I have been sworn to secrecy. I thought it was joke and I am not convinced the information is correct but time will tell.

[Jenny]

The 'celebs' would be better off putting money in via other methods surely? If the fund is topped up to £2m buy those other than average joe public, the benefit of the donations thus far will be wiped out in crowdfunder charges.

[Alickismyhero]

The 'celebs' would be better off putting money in via other methods surely? If the fund is topped up to £2m buy those other than average joe public, the benefit of the donations thus far will be wiped out in crowdfunder charges.

I totally agree Jenny but the new regime cannot be seen to fall at the first hurdle.Any short fall must be covered.

[GazLaz]

The deadline will be extended until the funds a raised.

[Filo]

The deadline will be extended until the funds a raised.

What if your pledge is only valid until that date?

[Alickismyhero]

I think you got that wrong Gaz:

"This project will only be funded if at least £2,000,000 is pledged by 2:46PM on Thursday 17th July, 2014"


That is a condition of the trust fund! There can be no extension and get the money donated so far. Is that how you read it Jenny or have I picked it up wrong?

[Jenny]

I thought that with crowdfunder the money doesn't actually leave your account until the pledge target is met, I was interested to read that if you pay by Paypal, the money leaves immediately, plus a processing fee, and is held in an account and is only released to the project or refunded when it either is a sucess or fails. By extending the project until the target is met, those who have pledged have no money, the project has no money, and I imagine those who have pledged don't get their rewards.

How long can they extend the deadline for and continue to withhold money/rewards? I can't imagine it going down well.... if the club then wanted to honour the rewards without actually having cash then we are in a bad cash flow situation also.

At the current rate, it could take all season to hit the £2m unless it is topped up by either JR/LT or other large backers, but then you have the whole fees thing rendering it pointless.

EDIT: Their terms then go on to say

Supporters agree to provide their payment information at the time they pledge to a campaign. The payment will be collected at or after the campaign deadline and only if the amount of money pledged as of the deadline is at least equal to the project goal. The amount Supporters pledge is the amount they will be charged.

Confusing....

[Wild Rover]

4 - 6 weeks ( as predetermined by Ryan/Tomlinson), but 6 weeks is the maximum. No money out unless goal is reached.

http://www.crowdfunder.co.uk/uploads/projects/cf_how_to_guide.pdf

[Dagenham Rover]

I would imagine the fees will have been negotiated

[GazLaz]

Just been reading up, you can't extend the deadline according to the Crowdfunder website.

[Jenny]

It seems harsh to leave people on the hook so to speak for money for a length of time that they haven't agreed to... But the club are saying it might be extended. Nothing is ever simple!

[DRNaith]

I think you got that wrong Gaz:

"This project will only be funded if at least £2,000,000 is pledged by 2:46PM on Thursday 17th July, 2014"


That is a condition of the trust fund! There can be no extension and get the money donated so far. Is that how you read it Jenny or have I picked it up wrong?

(I know I'm not Jenny   )

That is exactly how I see it, so was quite taken-a-back when there was talk of extending the deadline, the fixed deadline is quite a fundamental feature of the offer.

[Alickismyhero]

Just been reading up, you can't extend the deadline according to the Crowdfunder website.

That was my understanding Gaz.

Jenny I will have to spend sometime trying to work all that out.

[wing commander]

    Well they have said they will extend it if required..So they will have done there homework knowing it could be a possibility...However I doubt that will be the case..i'm confident the target will be reached at some point...I suspect it was always likely to be before it started...To be fair if you take the costs of the merchandise and crowdfunder fee's away..If they still show a additional surplus it will have achieved some funds and generated interest in the club....I'm not saying its blemish free by any means...but its clever...

[wing commander]

By surplus I mean from funds generated by the public and not those earmarked in advance..!!

[GazLaz]

 From the site...


 Can we change our funding aim or funding time once the project is live?
 Nope. This helps to keep projects and backers focused and is an important part of your agreement with the backer.

[DRNaith]

Is "nope" a legally recognised word? 

[wing commander]

   That is really interesting surely they knew this before they started???? But why say they would extend it if they knew they cant????..........Surely they haven't cocked up on something as important as that??? No I still don't believe they have ;-)

[GazLaz]

Is "nope" a legally recognised word? 

Yep.

[DRNaith]

The new regime can't allow this method of raising funds to fail and I can see a lot of high donations coming in towards the end.

Would they need to be near the end, maybe as backers they can pledge a bit here and there and alter it down a bit if interest hots-up toward the end?

[Wild Rover]

Seems from my above link that you make a choice of the number of days active, 28,31, 42( 42 is maximum), if 2million is reached Crowdfunder release the money ( less 100K , their 5% cut ). However if not reached Crowdfunder get nothing ).

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

And then deduct the vat and there isn't that much left.  I don't think this was the best way to do it!

[Jenny]

I'm not sure VAT would apply - you can give rewards for benefits of making a donation without having to charge VAT on it. And how do you put a monetary value on the benefit of say, taking a selfie with Louis?

[wing commander]

  No I agree Vat wouldn't apply....

[Alickismyhero]

The new regime can't allow this method of raising funds to fail and I can see a lot of high donations coming in towards the end.

Would they need to be near the end, maybe as backers they can pledge a bit here and there and alter it down a bit if interest hots-up toward the end?

The near the end big donations will be the ones to hold face. When it comes to £s and p Jenny is spot on there is probably more cost effective ways of  using those late donations to save face than putting it through the trust.

I get the feeling that they have not used Tommo to his best and sold the message well. The trust fund £2m is not conditional to the purchase of the club because that would not be acceptable to the football authorities. So someone will have to put a lot more cash in to the club.

There is no need to worry about the possible failure of the trust fund it will not fail. If we are to get the second highest player budget in the league a £2m fund is nothing to what we will need and I can only think the celebs will be digging deep, failing that, its down to Tommo, Ryan and his very rich friend.

[Glyn_Wigley]

I'm not sure VAT would apply - you can give rewards for benefits of making a donation without having to charge VAT on it. And how do you put a monetary value on the benefit of say, taking a selfie with Louis?

For VAT purposes, if a reward forms part of the trading stock of a business (e.g. an art gallery offering a free painting), then a deemed supply will take place and tax must be accounted for.  There is, however, an exception within the tax code where the cost of the reward (not its market value) does not exceed £50.  Under this scenario, an input is created that allows the VAT on the cost of the gift to be offset.

http://www.crowdbnk.com/blog/crowdfunding-and-tax

From that, I'd read it that 'donations' of less than £50 don't attract VAT, but those above it do...

[Jenny]

It is the cost of the reward that is important, not the amount of the donation.

[Alickismyhero]

I am surprised no one has corrected my maths?

So for the next 16 days we need £82,000 per day!

Now as I see it, every day that amount goes up we don't hit £82000 per day. It doesn't sound a lot but when you consider from day one the average daily figure to hit the target was £53500. Will some mathematician/accountant check out my figures? I did round the figures up for easy of calculations.

Just another of lifes little mysteries which will be answered in the very near future.

I am going to make a donation because this is going down in the History records of Donny Rovers. I am also a convert to One direction, I never thought I would say that.

Whoever is doing the marketing of Tommo get your finger out.

[Jenny]

The VAT isn't clear - but once again you would think that the club would have a clear position on this?

http://www.kingstonsmith.co.uk/resource/publication/articles/crowd-funding-an-accountant-s-view