Another beheading

[Filo]

I think it's time we took a lead out of Israel's book and strike back in an instant, totally obliterate the animals with our airpower, stop dithering and go for the throat!

[jucyberry]

I wonder if these poor men were even alive in the last few weeks or whether in truth they were all executed long before the footage was released. Either way it is a moot point I guess.

Wicked monsters who in truth as always care little for faith or cause,  devoid of humanity.

[jonnydog]

What they are doing goes against everything in the written in the kuran.

I'm with Filo.

"I love the smell of napalm in the morning!!"

[roversdude]

Crusades should have done more

[The Red Baron]

I think it will give Cameron the green light to actively support any military actions the US are taking. On balance I think it needs doing, just as we needed to flush Al Quaeda out of Afghanistan, but it must be a limited campaign with clear objectives.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Filo

By all accounts, there are 20-50,000 active IS fighters spread over an area about the size of England, and intermingled with innocent civilians.

How exactly do you propose that we obliterate them from the air without killing a quarter of a million innocent people?

[Filo]

There's no doubt innocents will be caught in the crossfire, but how else are these animals going to be stopped?

[BillyStubbsTears]

So the response to three Westerners being murdered is to throw your hands up at the prospect of thousands of innocents being killed?

[sheriff2971]

What would your response be Billy Bob?

[Filo]

How many innocents were killed in WW2 when the allies blanket bombed cities such as Dresden, or the bombing of the Dams in the Rhur Valley? without that kind of action we could have been living in a totally different world today

[BillyStubbsTears]

I dunno spadger. If I had the solution I'd win the Nobel Prize.

What I DO know is that wading in and massacring thousands of civilians as collateral damage does f*** all to keep any of us safe and secure in the long run (aside from the fact that it is utterly disproportionate and morally reprehensible).

I suspect that the least bad "solution" involves long-term containment and degradation of IS. And it involved a degree of acceptance that they will do some very bad things back to Westerners in the meantime. But that blindly lashing out in retribution is EXACTLY what they want, because it will radicalise the next generation.

What's YOUR solution?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Filo. It's about proportionality. In late WWII, we were dealing with an enemy that had already killed something like 10 million people. How many Westerners has IS killed?

(And even accepting the proportionality of action in WWII, Dresden was still a horrific and bestial war crime that should never have been allowed to occur.)

[not on facebook]

they should attack the IS either by air or on the ground or both from Irak side
of boarder,and at same time as IS  back track into Syria attack the fcukers from that side too.

also parliment should pass a Law that any person in the uk seen flying that black
IS flag or have it on their possesion at any time or in their homes they will be a
bog standard 20years behind bars.

anyone caught With owt related to  IS that is claiming benafits should have them stopped for max amount of time too,also the rest of the Family as they will know
what is what within their own 4walls.this will make the muslims be far more self
policing as if they want to keepliving on easy street they should inform Powers that be of any IS material or membership and not claim they knew fcuk all once
front door is getting kicked in

and fcuk all your human rights idiots

[RobTheRover]

 We need Kenny Everett to sort them out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGMWZJlA0QA

[Sandy Lane]

Reading the headlines again this morning is just so disturbing.

Thanks Rob, at least I had a giggle over 'Debbie Reynolds movies'.  My mom loved them!  Haha.

But seriously, it appears to me that these beheadings were all done at the same time - same background, same jumpsuits, no indication of the passage of time and just released at different times to us.  So it seems that they are baiting us.  But why?  New recruits?  To start WWIII so they will have died for the cause and be martyred?  To show our disproportional reaction as Billy says and radicalize the next generation?  Even in olden times 'an eye for an eye' was a massive step forward from the kill my brother and I'll wipe out your entire village, type of mentality.  But isn't that what war is?

The Pope this week had, I thought, a good assessment of the world situation when he made a statement that it was like a piecemeal WWIII, with the massacres, crimes and destruction.  Very very sad and scary times we are living in.

[Filo]

Reading the headlines again this morning is just so disturbing.

Thanks Rob, at least I had a giggle over 'Debbie Reynolds movies'.  My mom loved them!  Haha.

But seriously, it appears to me that these beheadings were all done at the same time - same background, same jumpsuits, no indication of the passage of time and just released at different times to us.  So it seems that they are baiting us.  But why?  New recruits?  To start WWIII so they will have died for the cause and be martyred?  To show our disproportional reaction as Billy says and radicalize the next generation?  Even in olden times 'an eye for an eye' was a massive step forward from the kill my brother and I'll wipe out your entire village, type of mentality.  But isn't that what war is?

The Pope this week had, I thought, a good assessment of the world situation when he made a statement that it was like a piecemeal WWIII, with the massacres, crimes and destruction.  Very very sad and scary times we are living in.

They weren't done at the same time, James Foley was beheaded sometime in mid August when the footage was released. This latest Beheading's footage mentions the airstrikes on the Haditha dam which were carried out on 7th September

[The Red Baron]

(And even accepting the proportionality of action in WWII, Dresden was still a horrific and bestial war crime that should never have been allowed to occur.)

Was Dresden any worse than any form of area bombing though? And if you count that as a war crime, what do you make of Hiroshima and Nagasaki?

[jonnydog]

Filo. It's about proportionality. In late WWII, we were dealing with an enemy that had already killed something like 10 million people. How many Westerners has IS killed?

(And even accepting the proportionality of action in WWII, Dresden was still a horrific and bestial war crime that should never have been allowed to occur.)

I was just about to post the same. There was no need for Dresden and it shouldn't have happened. Equally though, I agree that both the bombs dropped on Nagasaki and Hiroshima were crimes against humanity, casualties and injuries still occurring to this day due to aftermath.

... Can't we all just get along!!

[IC1967]

I think carpet bombing is the best solution at the moment. It is the lesser of the 2 evils. Sure, innocent civilians will be killed, but that is a price well worth paying to eradicate ISIS.

It will also make Muslims realise that they need to dump their religion because it has brought them nothing but suffering and pain. Carpet bombing on a huge scale will also make Muslims less likely to try it on again as they will know what the consequences will be.

Similar tactics were used in WW2 and because of this the war was brought to an earlier end saving more lives than were lost. Unfortunately that is the cost benefit analysis that needs to be made.

Once the Muslims realise that we are not going to stand for any nonsense they will soon start towing the line. It needs to start in our own backyard. Banning the Muslim faith
would be a good starting point.
   

[Filo]

Filo. It's about proportionality. In late WWII, we were dealing with an enemy that had already killed something like 10 million people. How many Westerners has IS killed?

(And even accepting the proportionality of action in WWII, Dresden was still a horrific and bestial war crime that should never have been allowed to occur.)

I was just about to post the same. There was no need for Dresden and it shouldn't have happened. Equally though, I agree that both the bombs dropped on Nagasaki and Hiroshima were crimes against humanity, casualties and injuries still occurring to this day due to aftermath.

... Can't we all just get along!!

Both attacks brought an abrupt end to the war in the Pacific theatre, innocent casualties are a sad by product of war

[RedRover45]

The first thing I would do is for every Western hostage beheaded, is to get ten Muslim political prisoners and kill them live on air to send the message to IS that everything they do will be replicated tenfold until they either stop or are wiped out. For the good of world future, they need wiping out ASAP

[BillyStubbsTears]

Aye. That's the western culture we are trying to defend.

[RedRover45]

BST

You cannot reason or try to educate a group that doesn't possess the ability to listen to an alternative moralistic viewpoint. Their dangerous fanaticism will only be stopped in a language they understand.
You can stand there forever preaching about morals, culture and decency and the 'right' thing to do and I strongly agree with you in theory, but this world doesn't function on theory, it functions on harsh reality.
If we don't stand together as a world against these fanatics, they will destroy us while we pontificate.
We need to stamp them out now.

[BillyStubbsTears]

RR

You think that executing dozens of unconvicted people will make IS change their approach? Good luck. Organisations like this are like a Hydra. They feed on the sort of reaction that you suggest. They NEED that sort of reaction to be able to justify their claims that the West is the Great Satan.

You don't EVER defeat terrorism by stooping to the same moral level. Not ever. Look at the early days of the IRA. The British Army responded to the initial IRA bombings and shootings by mass rounding up of young Catholic men, imprisoning with out trial, beatings and torture. The result? Massive increase in IRA volunteers and levels of violence.

You execute 10 Muslim prisoners and that is it for the next century. You have given them their legend that they need to keep the hatred burning. It is why Netanyahu's approach is so f**king stupid in the long run. In the SHORT term, he gets a political boost by wading into Gaza and killing 2000 civilians, because he's seen to be playing the hard man. In the long term, the result is depressingly obvious. If Israel keeps the Palestinians living as second class citizens, and launches ridiculously disproportionate raids on them on a regular  basis, they will have to live with terrorism for another century if not more. They will not defeat that sort of hatred by violence. Neither will we. Although they'll satisfy some people's blood lust by doing so.

[RedRover45]

BST

Doing nothing but putting up with their hatred and fanaticism is the worst thing to do and is NOT an option. They are effectively taunting us to react. We ought to do what they don't expect us to do.
If we don't they will keep chipping away, each thing they do will be more slightly outrageous than the last. Where do we draw the line ?
As I said, you cannot negotiate with these fanatics. It's kill or be killed. It's that simple.
There is no viable alternative.

[IC1967]

The only language these fanatics understand is overwhelming force. We need to teach them a damn good lesson. We need to send in the troops from as many nations as possible to finish them off. This would be after a massive carpet bombing campaign.

Resistance on their part would be futile. Any future uprisings should be stamped on immediately until they get the message.

[RedRover45]

Mick, I hardly ever agree with some of the wind up rubbish you put on here. However, worryingly, I'm finding I agree with you on this one. Where will it end if we don't show our hand with force.

[IC1967]

Exactly. The fact that Obama has tried to keep out of things as much as possible has made things much worse than they should have been. Any sign of weakness is pounced upon. We need to be strong at all times. It's not like we don't have the armies and superior hardware to be able to do it.

Unfortunately the likes of BST with their political correctness hold sway at the moment. Well I've got news for all these do gooders. The public are getting fed up with it. It's time to harden up and get on with sorting it out.

[BillyStubbsTears]

RR

There are MANY alternatives.

Take them on on the battelfield by all means. Wipe them out. But for Christ's sake, don't go giving them what they crave by stooping to their moral level and getting involved in indiscriminate reprisals. Every innocent kid that is killed in the battle against IS is another 1000 jihadis recruited. Executing unconvicted jihadis would put 10,000 on the numbers.

What do you want? A solution, or blood-letting for retribution?

[RedRover45]

BST

But therein lies the problem. IS have no interest in fighting us on a level playing field.
Like so many other terrorist groups they posture, strike, and run away like the cowardly sewer rats they are. They daren't challenge us in open warfare as they know we would wipe them out instantly.
I'll ask again. Where will it end ? I've often wondered what we would do if a major member of the Royal family or the Prime Minister (whoever it was) was killed by a terrorist.
At some point, you just have to draw a line in the sand and stand up to them.